Schadenfreude

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Yeah, life is comically unfair.

Evil thoughts shouldn't just be pushed aside and thought of as totally unacceptable. For a moment, embrace the dark side. Let yourself delight in the thought that she will destroy him, and perhaps be destroyed in the process. Nothing wrong with Schadenfreude.

Keep on venting.

[Vatz]

Yeah, life is comically unfair.

Evil thoughts shouldn't just be pushed aside and thought of as totally unacceptable. For a moment, embrace the dark side. Let yourself delight in the thought that she will destroy him, and perhaps be destroyed in the process. Nothing wrong with Schadenfreude.

Keep on venting.

[Skip]

Nothing wrong with Schadenfreude.

Many have pondered the nature of schadenfreude - the  feeling of enjoyment that comes from seeing or hearing about the troubles of other people

Arthur Schopenhauer wrote that its presence in a person's heart was a clear sign of evil.

R. C. Trench, a 19th-century British archbishop, wrote that even having a word for such a damnable emotion was evidence of a culture's corruption.

Studies on schadenfreude have related it to envy, deep resentment, and most prevalent with those with low self esteem.

I agree with the characterization of it as "dark side", Vatz.  

It would seem to me that it is one thing to naturally feel this... .but something very different to seek it, channel it, embrace it.

What do you think (anyone)?  Should we seek it, channel it, embrace it?

[trappedinlove]

Nothing wrong with Schadenfreude.

Many have pondered the nature of schadenfreude - the  feeling of enjoyment that comes from seeing or hearing about the troubles of other people

Arthur Schopenhauer wrote that its presence in a person's heart was a clear sign of evil.

R. C. Trench, a 19th-century British archbishop, wrote that even having a word for such a damnable emotion was evidence of a culture's corruption.

Studies on schadenfreude have related it to envy, deep resentment, and most prevalent with those with low self esteem.

I agree with the characterization of it as "dark side", Vatz.  

It would seem to me that it is one thing to naturally feel this... .but something very different to seek it, channel it, embrace it.

What do you think (anyone)?  Should we seek it, channel it, embrace it?

“Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.” is one Buddhist saying I can strongly relate to.

And I think it applies to other negative emotions like schadenfreude too.

The fact it occurs naturally is undeniable but when it does I would I ask myself what does it buy me? how does it affect me and my self image? who do I want to be?

Sorry for thinking out loud... .this reminds me of parents I saw who say to their children after they hit a chair and fall for example that it's the chair's fault and they should be angry at the chair and punish it... ."bad chair" they called the poor thing... .

[Servante]

Being an atheist my view of evil is probably going to differ from others, and the opinion of an archbishop means next to nothing to me.  All I know is that denying our feelings, repressing them, rationalizing other's behaviors, and self-sacrificing for the benefit of someone who has shown over and over that they don't deserve it is primarily why we found ourselves in this situation in the first place.

I say feel your feelings and stop the repression and give up the guilt.  Allow yourself to feel pleasure at your vindictive thoughts, but know when enough is enough.  And most importantly don't do anything that would actually bring about harm, either physical, mental, or otherwise.  But most importantly process those feelings, allow yourself to feel them, and then allow yourself to let them go.

My two cents.

[Dutched]

Nothing wrong with Schadenfreude

IMO the word can’t be moralized by one liners.

Schadenfreude is related with joy, humor, society, culture and the perception of a kind of justice done and yes throughout history, and even today the discussion continues, it is seen as moral wrong, even as an expression of aggression (Aristotle).

As reaction on A. Schopenhauer, Friedrich Nietzsche (in Human, all too human) answered Schopenhauer’s “malicious joy is devilish” with “All pleasure is, in itself, neither good nor bad”. 

(Despite the fast changing society (among industrialisation), he (Schopenhauer) regarded women less than 2nd degree humans (in Parerga und Paralipomena II), however seemed to live with a different moral regarding women).

Referring Richard Trench. To understand, he wrote (On the morality of words, 1852) and lectured that in the Victorian time, a romanticised period in which virtue and high morality was emphasized. The upper part of English class-society welcomed the idea to distinguish itself, at least “to keep up appearances”.

Fitting better in our rapidly changing society:

John Portman (2000): “It is not the suffering of others that brings us joy, but rather the evidence of justice triumphing before our eyes”.

Related to this, many (if not all) on this Board experienced at least a kind of moral injustice of how a human being is capable to hurt another beyond belief.

Common is “we” do not deserve to be treated as we were. However subsequently is does not imply as being the victim, we necessarily seek for revenge of any kind, nor do we wait for Schadenfreude to happen.

If, than the Schadenfreude of “moral justice” of a kind can be experienced.

Others

Smith (et al 1996) ) after empirical research, talks about envy. The misfortune of an envied other can cut away the basis of envy in our selves into a more favourable comparison.

Taylor and Brown (1988) say that people can and tend to enjoy more Schadenfreude as self-enhancement when threatened in their self-evaluation (lower self-esteem as Skip mention).

Ergo, which of the above carries the most weight will depend upon the situation and person, as the list of Schadenfreude is endless long. Common for Schadenfreude is that any harm done is small, a kind of justice is involved and WE did not cause it, nor could influence it.

Popular examples to have Schadenfreude is Candid camera and America’s funniest home videos.

So we must admit, reluctantly or with some shame maybe, that there are some situations in which we can’t resist a ”little smile” if something “minor” happens to another person.

A very interesting book on the subject is:

"Schadenfreude Understanding Pleasure at the Misfortune of Others"

Wilco W. van Dijk / Jaap Ouwerkerk.

ISBN 9781139989701

[enlighten me]

Another way to look at schadenfreude in our situation would be Karma.

Schadenfreude which literally means shameful joy is to take pleasure in others misfortune. Now if it was applied to taking pleasure in everyones misfortune it would be wrong but if it is seen as taking joy in someone getting their comeuppance is it so bad?

Morally wanting to see anyone suffer is wrong but then again morally the unjust being punished is right.

I suppose it all boils down to how much pleasure you take from it. 

[Mr Hollande]

I imagine Miss BPD crying over her horrible life hampered by an endless string of bad decisions and me going "BWAHAHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAAHA... ." and I have absolutely no moral problem with that. I know if it hasn't happened already it'll come at some point and it will keep repeating itself. I may get to see it but the more likely scenario is I won't. BUT - I know it's coming. It will come to her without me making any effort at all so I won't waste my time seeking it. A dish served cold and she deserves every mouthful.

[Mr Hollande]

Schadenfreude which literally means shameful joy

To my knowledge of the German language it does not mean that. Schaden = damage/injury, freude = joy/happiness. Damage joy/Injury happiness. You described it very well yourself - "to take pleasure in others misfortune".

[Mutt]

R. C. Trench, a 19th-century British archbishop, wrote that even having a word for such a damnable emotion was evidence of a culture's corruption.

Mahatma Gandhi.

“You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is like an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.''

― Mahatma Gandhi

[enlighten me]

schade (used predicatively)

1.Das ist aber schade! or, for short, Schade! What a pity! or What a shame!

Like I said it was a literal translation.

I lived in Germany for 8 years and it was my favourite German word. Firstly I just liked how it sounded and secondly I thought there was something profound about its meaning.

[Mr Hollande]

Yes but schade as in "what a shame" isn't the same as shadenfreude meaning that the joy over other peoples misfortune is shameful. It doesn't make a moral judgement. It merely describes a human trait. The expression exists in other Germanic languages as well.

[enlighten me]

Sorry just looked it up and Schaden does mean harm like you say. I was just going off of what a German girlfriend I had told me it meant.

Hopefully my interpretation of the meaning is about right though.