How do pwBPD get on with kids?

[Depression = 72% of members]

My ex is now with a woman who has a 7 yr old? He always wanted kids but can't have them - he's always been very good with them but only around them for couple of hours.

Do they manage to hold it together in front of kids?  I just think back to all the shouting and throwing stuff and rages Inexperienced even in the early days? And wonder what effect it has on young kids.

Grateful for your thoughts

[merlin4926]

My ex is now with a woman who has a 7 yr old? He always wanted kids but can't have them - he's always been very good with them but only around them for couple of hours.

Do they manage to hold it together in front of kids?  I just think back to all the shouting and throwing stuff and rages Inexperienced even in the early days? And wonder what effect it has on young kids.

Grateful for your thoughts

[Harri]

Hi Merlin.  My mom was uBPD just to give you an idea of where I am coming from with my reply.

Do they manage to hold it together in front of kids?  I just think back to all the shouting and throwing stuff and rages Inexperienced even in the early days? And wonder what effect it has on young kids.

In general, no they do not manage to hold it together in front of kids.  I have heard of a couple of adult children who were fortunate to not be on the receiving end of rage, projections, lies and manipulations, but they are, in my experience, the minority.  another thing to think about is that it is often NOT the more overt behaviors that are so damaging.  Think of yourself as an adult and how difficult it was to deal with FOG and now think about how it would be for a child, 2 years old, 4 years old, 7, 10... .) who have few interpersonal skills and who still look to others around them to aid in their development of self.  Think of all the adults who picked up "fleas" as the result of being in a relationship with a BPD who have struggled with seeing and accepting and then shedding those behaviors as adults... .and then think of a kid who is ill equipped to do the same.

When my mom was great she was a fantastic mother and when she was enveloped in her own dysfunction she was horrid.

Take a look over at the Coping and Healing (Family) board and see some of the stuff we adult children are dealing with today.  Remember, those of us posting here are the ones who were lucky enough to survive with enough sense of self to not be BPD.  Not all of us were so fortunate.

[merlin4926]

thanks for that Harri.  it must be so difficult growing up in that chaos.  I just wondered if they could 'love' a child differently because children do have the ability to love unconditionally and don't react the same way that adults do. I guess not.  I really appreciate your reply

[Harri]

Hi Merlin.  You are welcome.  I am always pleased to see questions about kids of pwBPD.  The issues kids have as a result of growing up in an environment with a BPD and people who do not intervene or who can act as a healthy safe haven can mean they end up with BPD or being enmeshed co-dependents.  Neither is good, though one had a more socially acceptable outward appearance (the co-dependant). 

It is interesting what you said about the capacity of unconditional love.  Infants are in fact the perfect little vessel for the needs of a BPD, but it is not healthy for a child to be in that position.  I have been thinking about the whole idea of unconditional love a lot lately. It seems to me that the only time it is healthy is when it is from a parent to a child.  Kids are born and are programmed to be vulnerable and dependent on their caretakers and it is a matter of survival that they look to them as being dependable, nurturing and consistent people.  When their needs are not met and there is no alternate source upon whom they can rely, they will turn against their self rather than the caretaker.  Their survival leaves no other option.  All kids come into the world totally dependent but they are also programmed to detach from the caregiver.  So very frequently, the pwBPD is excellent with infants and little kids, but once they start breaking away and developing as individuals, the pwBPD will see that as rejection and their fear of abandonment and fear of annihilation will kick in.  The kid then internalizes all sorts of damaging messages.  With the right combination of genetics and an invalidating abusive environment, a new pwBPD or a co-dependent is created.

Now, as a spouse or an SO, unconditional love is not something that you should strive for.  I may still love a person regardless of their actions and words, but I expect to be treated properly and I do in fact have certain standards and conditions that if not met, I will walk away.  (or at least I do in theory... .so far I have not been successful in walking away before taking abuse and in some cases, dishing it out myself    So far I can talk the talk, but walking it... .not so much!). 

The biggest lesson I learned from my childhood is that just because I may love someone it does not always follow that I must act on that love.  I can still love and detach.  We as humans seem to put love on a pedestal and use the old "but I *love* this person so I must... ."  Nope. 

Anyway, I just went off on a tangent there.  I think I am finished now.   

[half-life]

Harri, thank you for your great perspectives. We have a S3 and S8. In her heart, my uBPD wife want to be a good mom and she is good with the kids so far. But as they grow, I think it is only a matter of time for problem to happen. My older son clashed with her lately because of her coaching during his piano practices. Her demand is so exacting that, even I'm only a bystander in this case, feel really unbearable. Finally my son refused to go to piano class. He told me he can't stand mom. Later I am able to convinced her to back off and leaving the coaching to the teacher. This is the beginning of many clashes to come I expect.

[imstronghere2]

I wish my father would have taken us away from my mother when I was VERY young.  The damage she did was beyond description.  All emotional and mental.  It's the very reason I ended up marrying a BPD, because it was what I was familiar with.  I KNOW how to live like that.  I was trained and conditioned to do it.

I don't recommend it.  I don't have the skills for a normal, healthy relationship and I accept that now.  I'm 53.

Is that what you'd want for your kids?

[merlin4926]

It hurts because he can't have kids and that's what he wanted. I feel that the fact she has a child is one reason that he dumped me for her but I just keep thinking what is she playing at? She left her child with him even though he had been up all night doing coke and been in hospital the week before having taken an overdose? 

It is nothing to do with me I guess but I know how lovely it is in the beginning but this poor kid is going to get messed up

[drummerboy]

While in the idealisation phase my ex was all over my 4 and 7 YO. (She even told my 7 year old daughter about menstruation the first time she met her) About 12 weeks into the relationship she told me that she didn't want to visit when I had my kids staying at my place. Should have been a major red flag. My interpretation is that a BPD is always all about themselves so a partners kids are a total annoyance because it will mean that they will not be the centre of attention.

[Second Birth]

My husband and I have been married for over 30 years and it is a second marriage for both of us.  We each haave 2 children from the first marriage.  It sounds to me like he and his first wife used the children as pawns in their relationship... .each consistently siding with one child.  As an adult, the child aligned with my husband also suffers from BPD. They have a phone-only relationship because my husband finds his son's struggles too painful.  He has virtually no relationship with the second child, which is made more unfortunate because the supportive mom has died.

In our marriage, I have been the "bread and butter" and my husband has been "the jam".   I provided for all the necessary stuff and he was the fun guy.  During the years the children were young, I turned myself inside out to maintain peace in the home environment.  Throughout the early years, my husband and daughter both attempted to get me to side with them as they fought for my attention, and my husband would occasionally buy my daughter off with a gift when he felt badly about some altercation.  To my complete shock, during our separations, my daughter has been very supportive of my husband.  As adults, both of my children are very fond of their stepfather and he continues to be special to the grandchilren when they visit, as well.

So, while having virtually no relationship with his own grown children, my children never fail to ask about him, and their fondness for him add to my burden as I decide whether or not to remain in the marriage.  I might add that he told me at one point, that he thought I would leave him when the children were grown... .thinking, I guess, that all I wanted was a father for my kids... .that was 20+ years ago.  I will say, that the easier years were when the children were home.

[Bak86]

My ex absolutely dislikes kids. She doesn't want to have kids ever she mentioned over and over. And when she had to take care of her brother his kids, she would hate it.

[Popcorn71]

My xBPDh always claimed to love kids and made a fuss of other people's.  Yet he hardly saw his young grand-daughter and hated my son.  To people outside the home, he probably appeared to be a nice, uncle type bloke who would aways buy the local kids an icecream or give them sweets.  It was all put on, just as most of his behaviour, to hide the real 'him' and make people think he was a kind, good man.

[Pingo]

My ex was cool with my son when he met him, my son was 6 at the time.  But after the first couple of months he became irritated with my son.  His controlling nature came out towards him, he had the old school idea that children should be seen and not heard.  His rage came out a couple of times later on in the r/s towards my son when my son expressed anger which my ex could not handle.

Towards my teenage daughter, he was generally nice to her face but tried to sabotage my r/s with her constantly.  I believe he was threatened by her, maybe because she might see through his bull-___ or because she might take away my attention.

My ex always stated he just didn't know how to be a step parent as an excuse for his bad behaviour and never bonding with my son.  Fair enough, so I bought him a couple of books on stepparenting which he never bothered to read.  In hindsight I believe he didn't really care about my kids because he didn't need anything from them.  And he couldn't be bothered to bond with them because he was so dysfunctional.