How to embrace our history without being defined by it?

[Harri]

Hi.  I have been kicking this question around in my head and I haven't a clue as to the answer.

Now, I am quite sure I have explored the major pieces of my history and I have worked through many of the abuses.  Granted, there are some I am still working on but for the most part, I do not feel the need to look at each individual instance and I have taken the approach that there is no need to do so.  Recognizing that the key parts were harmful and how they harmed me is sufficient and I can safely put all the other details into the same category of "messed up experiences that are just like the others I've looked at".

What I am realizing now is that while I have worked through many of the issues, I have not yet fully accepted them.  I have been unsure how to accept them without letting them define me.  I have never wanted to identify as a victim of abuse and I am equally reluctant to identify as a survivor of abuse.  The whole concept of victim is repugnant to me.  The term survivor is still tied to the abuse, or being a victim.  I recoil when I think of taking on the labels of victim and survivor of abuse.  I see others in the public who make speeches about their experiences and I look at book of survivors of ______ (pick an abuse to fill this in) and to me, most of them seem to have incorporated the abuse to the point where it has become part of their identity.  They are proud of having overcome the abuse and survived, as they should be, but to me it seems they are still identifying as victim and survivor to a certain extent.

There are things in my life that I still feel are shameful and I have not fully embraced them.  I only partly accept that I was not responsible for some of the stuff in the past and I have only partly moved past being a survivor for other stuff.  So I have been stuck in a state of limbo where I have worked things through part way but I am afraid to finish because I am unsure how to embrace these happening without letting them define me.  I wonder if my unwillingness to be defined by my past is caused by the shame I still feel or if the shame I still feel is the result of my not fully embracing it.  And then I have to ask, how does one embrace the past without letting it define you and then you are forever tied to it and end up staying a victim to a certain extent.  

I do not want to be defined by the abuse I experienced.  I can't even allow myself to say "I don't want to be defined by the abuse I suffered" because the word suffered implies victim, weakness, some aspect of shame to me.  Inside, I recoil and cringe.  I am afraid.

I am so confused.  I would love others opinions on this and I hope people will challenge me on this.  Even if you think I am totally messed up in my thinking, tell me, so I can figure this out.  Please?  Thank you.  

[hergestridge]

In my opnion (and this is MY opinion), you should not be afraid of the "victim" position. Most of us did not ask for the things that happened to us. Many of us tried to set things right and work things out and were met by abuse and suicide ideation. Without the knowledge of the illness, what could we do?

Think like this: if that pwBPD had not come along your path, what would life had been like? How much of the trouble did come *with* that person?

Then, how much should the things that have happened define you?

Let me tell you this:

I was in a relationship for 20 years in which was not healthy. I was an idiot for not leaving her of course, but apart from that I did not *become* unhealthy.

I am imperfect, but I can motivate myself to get better. When I was in my unhealthy relationship my wife made me doubdt my abilities and lowered my motivation.

Why would I make friends when she said they didn't really like me? Why would I perform better at work when she just thought I was just a bootlicker? Why would I be a better singer or songwriter when she thought my performance was embarrasing?

The day she left I get to work without those obstacles.

Embracing history is not uncomplicated. I have found that the 20 years we spent together consisted of good times and bad times, and the good times was the times let me have my way and didn't interfere at all. Then were the bad times, when she was at my throat, making unreasonable demands on me, putting me in catch 22 situations.

There was never a colabboration, ever. And there couldn't be, she either agreed 100% or disagreed 100%.

So what is left when she's gone? Basically, it's the good times. It's me having my way. The only difference is she's not there looking on passively, and what difference does it make, really?

The BPD relationship was AIR. How could that define me?

I'm left to pick up a new relationship with a healthy person, colabborating, compromising, interacting in ways that are (propably) new to me in a romantic relationship. I'm looking foward to that.

[Harri]

Hi Hergestridge, and thank you.  I am happy for you that you are out of a 20 year relationship that caused so much pain and misery.  I am sure it was painful and I am sorry for that but this part here: 

I'm left to pick up a new relationship with a healthy person, colabborating, compromising, interacting in ways that are (propably) new to me in a romantic relationship. I'm looking foward to that.

makes me very happy and I am smiling at the thought of you moving along in life. 

Your perspective is interesting.  Embrace victimhood and move beyond.  Maybe I am scared of getting stuck.  Maybe it is the revulsion and fear I feel inside me at the whole idea of being mired down in that ___.  It is funny, because other than the people I call professional survivors (ie, authors and speech givers) I have no problem when people use those terms... .except when they apply to me.  I have understanding and compassion and a lot more tolerance and patience when hearing those terms from other people. 

I have a hard time trying to imagine what life would have been like if my mother had not been a part of it.  The very literal part of me thinks, good God that would have left me with my father!  Ack!  The spiritual part of me who believes that on a spiritual level I chose to be born into the family I had (yeah, really   ) perhaps embraces the word chose because it means I had some control in things that happened and I have not lost my power.  Is that all an illusion though?

Thank you for your response.  It has helped me to reconnect with my emotions and has certainly given me a different perspective.  It helps that your perspective makes sense and is totally understandable and is without a trace of wallowing in your past.  Kudos to you!

[Moselle]

Harri,

I can empathise with you, and have some of the same issues around the victim/survivor label, coupled with alot of anger.

I have set my sight on "thriving", not surviving or victim, and I have actually decided I will have a relationship one day in which I thrive. It may be with my dBPD/NPDw, but it may not be, I haven't decided. (I am 7 months into a separation from her)

I saw your spiritual perspective in your second post about choosing your family, and to be honest I don't know if we chose or didn't choose our family, but I do think that God is mindful of our pain and difficulties.

Also, I think that our circumstances are an opportunity for spiritual growth. I do not in any way condone or minimize the terrible damage caused by abuse, but it is our story and ours alone to overcome. There is merit, great merit in just surviving, but I think it is truly something special to thrive, given the damaging histories.

Abuse leaves damage that is invisible to the eye, but acutely present in the life of the victim as a clear handicap. Perhaps I need to accept this to move on? Its a handicap. So what - et on with it and thrive anyway.

Just as touch and hearing become especially acute in blind people, perhaps there are skills/talents we have developed in response. Intuition (often developed to sense the explosive moods of an abuser) can be turned to healthy advantage by a 'victim' at work, in other relationships.

Just some thoughts. Thanks for asking the question.

[Harri]

Moselle, thank you.  Thriver is a good word and is more of what I am looking for or hoping to achieve.  I feel like I want the abuse to be more of an after thought, like I am Harri and I am a kind, quirky, good person who is sometimes impatient, cranky, angry and a bit of a weirdo and oh by the way, I was abused for part of my life but I learned a lot from it and because of that I am not sure I would change a thing.  None of this "I do _____ because of the abuse I experienced."  Just a gentle acceptance of what was and what is.

The fact is I have learned a lot and have gained a few talents as a result.  Spiritually,  I believe we all have the capacity for what is frequently called dark or even evil behaviors.  I have seen them within me as well as others and I think it leads to greater compassion and understanding and hopefully will lead to a greater capacity to love others.  I still have a lot of learning and growth to do here and I actually feel a bit of excitement about it.  So I agree with what you said about spiritual growth.  What do you hope for in terms of spiritual growth?

Moselle, maybe being right where you are at this very instant is you thriving.  Maybe this is what thriving looks and sounds like... .at least for now.  I too believe you will have a relationship in which you thrive.

Thanks for chatting with me.   

Moselle,

[Moselle]

What do you hope for in terms of spiritual growth?

Good question. I'm hoping to grow through this. I hold to the vision of coming out of this hardship in a better place than when I went in. And I went in pretty good I can tell you, so it's a mountain to climb to come out thriving.

I'm actually quite devastated in so many ways, and I have a real personal crisis of identity.

Sometimes I just want to run from anyone who red flags me, including my NPD mum and BPD/NPDw. I don't know how to recover whilst still connected to these people.

I want to re-establish my relationship with God, remember that I am his son and have great worth. The reality is I do not feel this now.

Moselle, maybe being right where you are at this very instant is you thriving.  Maybe this is what thriving looks and sounds like... .at least for now.  I too believe you will have a relationship in which you thrive.

Maybe you're right... .

But just to highlight the contrast:

1 year ago I was staying in a beautiful beachfront luxury vacation home with a 'happy' (as I knew happiness to be) family, I was the CEO of a 400 fte company, had the luxury cars and the stunning house with a sea view, in one of the most beautiful cities in the world.

(I loved my life outside of the home! The dark secret was that I was being physically and emotionally beaten by my wife in front of my kids. Being slowly but consistently annihilated by her, and I was complicit. I didn't even know it was abusive, and pretended it wasn't really happening, What the heck)  

I now live on my own, 1500km away from my kids. I've got a good job but it feels menial compared to what I'm used to in terms of stimulation. I spend an inordinate amount of time on this website, learning about my W's and mother's BPD and NPD, and grappling with my own co-dependency traits. If this is thriving, I'm struggling to see it   PS The good news is that I still have my big black German SUV, which is a joy to me every day when I drive it, but that's about the only reminder of the old life I loved.

Silver lining in every cloud? That's my game. Coming out better than when I went in? That's my nature.

Right now it's hard to imagine how it's going to happen though ;-)

But that's not what you're saying is it? It's not about big jobs and big cars, luxury lifestyles, 'happy' families and appearances. It's about today, and seeing the beauty in it. Thriving in the moment. It's acceptance and being at peace with the truth (as we see it right now). It's about feeling after being numb for years. It's about the beauty in a sun rise, and enjoying the sensation of a hot sauna, laughing with my children on the phone. Waking up each day excited to live it, seeing the endless possibility in it. If this is thriving, I'm trying.

[Harri]

Moselle, I am standing right beside you when you write

Being slowly but consistently annihilated by her, and I was complicit. I didn't even know it was abusive, and pretended it wasn't really happening, What the heck

I am there right with you.  For me, it was my mother, but I too allowed myself to be annihilated.  I too feel complicit.  I too did not realize how abusive she was and I pretended it was not happening.  There are some differences in detail regarding our experiences, but the emotions and feelings are, I think, the same.  So are my thoughts about it.  I too think What the heck?  I joke that one of my talents is denial, but it is a biting and all too real truth for me.  I feel weak and shameful and so very responsible.  I let her do unspeakable things and it torments me.  I feel humiliated.  Through her, I destroyed my Self.  I think of how I have told people in the past how much I loved my family and how much I cared about my mother.  I bought every last piece of BS and then I sold it to other people.  I get it.  I do not want to take anything away from your experiences when I say that, but I get it.  The abuse, the not knowing, the annihilation and the whole What the heck.  The killer for me is that I would have flashes of knowledge and awareness at about my mid 20's that what I was allowing was wrong and I still allowed it to continue for about another decade.  That makes me more messed up than her in my mind.  So often I am screaming and howling inside my own head.  

The interesting thing is that when I read your words, not only do I get it, but I can see how you are holding yourself to an impossible standard.  Moselle, the fact is you did not know.  How could you if your mother was NPD and you were raised in a messed up environment?  How can you possibly be complicit in something of which you had no knowledge or understanding?  How could you possibly put a stop to something that you (I am assuming here from your comment that your mom is NPD) on some level believed was normal or that you maybe deserved?  I am taking a lot of liberties here and I do not want to go too far in my assumptions, so I will stop.  I think you get my point though.  Turkish says, and rightly so "you don't know what you don't know."  It is simple but complex and it is true.  It is like you are looking at the past and assessing your performance based on what you know today rather than accepting what you knew then.  How fair is that?  

That shame is not yours.  It belongs to your ex and your mother.

Okay, I am going to stop lecturing... .maybe  

I read your list of contrasts and they do represent significant change.  I have had a bit of that too lately, though not quite to the same extent.  I think these challenges we are facing are in part to get us to build a new sense of identity but this time based on things of substance.  A good solid foundation that will not crack just because of a change in jobs or house or even health (in my case).  I am not sure what the proper building materials are yet though.  Right now, it is like I am afraid to label them.  I do not trust my own ability to assess.

Maybe your current, less stimulating job is a deliberate change.  One that allows you to have the time and energy to be here, working on you, learning to see that you are quite wonderful just as you are, and you get to have talks with cool people    and you get to help other people reach a point of clarity and move further along the path to self acceptance (thank you BTW.  You being who you are right now today, is a blessing).  

But that's not what you're saying is it? It's not about big jobs and big cars, luxury lifestyles, 'happy' families and appearances. It's about today, and seeing the beauty in it. Thriving in the moment. It's acceptance and being at peace with the truth (as we see it right now). It's about feeling after being numb for years. It's about the beauty in a sun rise, and enjoying the sensation of a hot sauna, laughing with my children on the phone. Waking up each day excited to live it, seeing the endless possibility in it. If this is thriving, I'm trying.

Yes.  The last part that I bolded *is* what it means to thrive and that is what lets me know that you will come through this better and stronger.

PS.  When I came home today, there was a praying mantis on my balcony screen.  I looked up the symbolism because they are pretty rare sightings where I am.  The mantis comes to us when we need peace, quiet and calm in our lives. Usually the mantis makes an appearance when we've flooded our lives with so much business, activity, or chaos that we can no longer hear the still small voice within us because of the external din we've created.

[Harri]

Moselle, I just realized I referred to your wife as your ex.  I am sorry.

[Moselle]

The interesting thing is that when I read your words, not only do I get it, but I can see how you are holding yourself to an impossible standard.  Moselle, the fact is you did not know.  How could you if your mother was NPD and you were raised in a messed up environment?  How can you possibly be complicit in something of which you had no knowledge or understanding?  How could you possibly put a stop to something that you (I am assuming here from your comment that your mom is NPD) on some level believed was normal or that you maybe deserved?  I am taking a lot of liberties here and I do not want to go too far in my assumptions, so I will stop.  I think you get my point though.  Turkish says, and rightly so "you don't know what you don't know."  It is simple but complex and it is true.  It is like you are looking at the past and assessing your performance based on what you know today rather than accepting what you knew then.  How fair is that?  

That shame is not yours.  It belongs to your ex and your mother.

I just thought it was normal, in fact I didn't think at all. I did very little, paralysed by the thought of doing something wrong, and the subsequent emotional punishment. I was smart so I winged it in tests and exams at school, and did fine. My D10 is like this. I see me in her, she doesn't need to study for tests and exams. My D13 is in a world of her own. I realise she has had the full brunt of toxicity for the longest, and she shows the inevitable signs of a low self esteem. I thinks she is more like W, and I shudder to think about what comes next.

Perhaps this is why I'm fighting for my marriage - I think I can rescue my kids from this :-(

Yes the shame is theirs. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their armpits 

[Harri]

Hi again Moselle.  Is your wife in any kind of treatment?  When you say perhaps you are trying to save your kids by saving your marriage, what do you mean?  What does that look like to you?

[Moselle]

Hi again Moselle.  Is your wife in any kind of treatment?  When you say perhaps you are trying to save your kids by saving your marriage, what do you mean?  What does that look like to you?

she's doing CBT with her T.

I don't really know why I want to save this marriage if I'm honest. It's not much fun, and I'm still undecided. In fact I completely gave up, stopped paying for all the therapy, refused to go to couple counselling and said "I don't care whether you have BPD, NPD or the plague. It's not my problem." That's when she switched from push to pull, started paying for her own therapy, and seemingly can't get enough of me now. I've been very black and white about what I want in a romantic relationship. And she's happily mirroring that now LOL. I don't know, maybe its real maybe its fake. It is what it is right now.

I think it's time to focus on loving myself and my kids. She can do what she pleases, but it'll be a long time with lots of progress before I consider going back to her.

[Harri]

Hiya!

I think it's time to focus on loving myself and my kids.

I agree.   

Are you in therapy?  Have you thought of therapy for your kids?  I ask because of what you said earlier about your 13 and 10 year old.  If they are showing signs of BPD like behaviors (the 13 yo) and codependency (the 10 yo) AND are living with mom most of the time, they could benefit from therapy.  Even the 4 year old.  Being in a volatile, invalidating, and unstable environment, a given when living with a pwBPD, can/will have lasting effects.  I wish someone had stepped in and offered me help, even if it were just a chance to sit in a safe and welcoming place with a person who cared for an hour or two a week. 

I hope you don't mind my personal questions.  I am enjoying your company on this thread and I do not want to bore you or push you away so give me a heads up if I am getting too personal.   

[Moselle]

Hiya!

I think it's time to focus on loving myself and my kids.

I agree.   

Are you in therapy?  Have you thought of therapy for your kids?  I ask because of what you said earlier about your 13 and 10 year old.  If they are showing signs of BPD like behaviors (the 13 yo) and codependency (the 10 yo) AND are living with mom most of the time, they could benefit from therapy.  Even the 4 year old.  Being in a volatile, invalidating, and unstable environment, a given when living with a pwBPD, can/will have lasting effects.  I wish someone had stepped in and offered me help, even if it were just a chance to sit in a safe and welcoming place with a person who cared for an hour or two a week. 

I hope you don't mind my personal questions.  I am enjoying your company on this thread and I do not want to bore you or push you away so give me a heads up if I am getting too personal.   

[Harri]

Hi Moselle.  Were you planning to add something to your previous post?   

[Moselle]

Hi Moselle.  Were you planning to add something to your previous post?   

I planned to, did do, and tried to update it and it said it had timed out :-(

Here again

I do go to therapy, on a need to basis. When I feel overwhelmed with all this crap, I schedule a session.

They were in therapy until 5 weeks ago. The counsellor died of pneumonia. I'll look for another one. Thanks for the reminder. They've shown symptoms, particularly since the separation.

W's beginning to show some awareness. I highlighted the symptoms in D13 to W this weekend. We called her in for a chat, and W apologised, "She said I'm so sorry if I've hurt you, I didn't know. I'm only realising now, you are lucky to pick it up when you're young". OK some awareness at least. But she's not being part of the solution yet.

[Harri]

Well, I am very glad to hear you are all getting support and it is especially nice to hear you have recognized the needs of your kids.

As a kid of a uBPD mom, I am curious:  are you thinking that staying with your wife will help the kids or are you thinking that a separation with shared custody would help the kids?

[Moselle]

Well, I am very glad to hear you are all getting support and it is especially nice to hear you have recognized the needs of your kids.

As a kid of a uBPD mom, I am curious:  are you thinking that staying with your wife will help the kids or are you thinking that a separation with shared custody would help the kids?

A dad who thrives because he is happy, will help the kids. I am open to staying and and achieve that and I am open to leaving to achieve that.

When I am happy and thriving as me, the me I know (I really do know him), the children will be happiest. I will be their support, and father. I am very dedicated to them, and realise that through the conflict they were robbed of the best me. They won't be robbed any more. I am very blunt with W about this. She's got strong NPD too, she actually responds to bluntness very well.

Sharing my story with you has been very therapeutic in terms of accepting reality, so you might think you are overstepping the bounds a bit. I don't mind- especially if your knowledge helps me fast track my recovery process a bit. I'll stop if/when I'm uncomfortable.

Here are a few questions I'd like you to answer for me :-)

Why are you interested in the details of my life?

What do you want? ( In general, not related to me or my story)

[Harri]

Hi again. 

A dad who thrives because he is happy, will help the kids. I am open to staying and and achieve that and I am open to leaving to achieve that.

I agree.     And I am thrilled to know you have such a clear vision.  If you can envision it, it can be done, and the more detailed the vision is, the quicker it can be done (I am not a patient person for some things)

Sharing my story with you has been very therapeutic in terms of accepting reality, so you might think you are overstepping the bounds a bit. I don't mind- especially if your knowledge helps me fast track my recovery process a bit. I'll stop if/when I'm uncomfortable.

I am glad it has been therapeutic for you.  It has for me as well.

Why are you interested in the details of my life?

I am not interested in the *details* of your life.  I am interested in the substance of your life.  Knowing what your thoughts are as you go through *this* challenge.  Beyond wanting to see you reach a state of thriving where you feel happy and whole, I have no interest in the *details*.   

To elaborate a bit more, I am mostly drawn to the thought of your kids and crazy as this sounds, I am looking for reassurance that you are making them a priority (you are and that makes me happy).  I am secondly drawn to you as a non-father who is very different from my own.  I have been all twisted in my thoughts with my own father and have been very angry with Nons in general (including myself) because I see the willingness to overlook, the co-dependency, etc as being just as damaging and controlling as BPD and for me, just a bit more repulsive than BPD.  You would have to know my story to really understand why this has been hard for me.  So to have an opportunity to talk with someone who is a Non, who is capable of introspection and is willing to work on their own issues, who does not trigger my issues to the point where I have trouble seeing you is a blessing. 

What do you want? ( In general, not related to me or my story)

I want to be seen and heard.  I want to make a difference.  I want my story to count for something beyond me.  I want to be valued and loved for simply being me. 

[Moselle]

I am thrilled to know you have such a clear vision.  If you can envision it, it can be done, and the more detailed the vision is, the quicker it can be done.

Yesterday, on a different thread, I was coached into doing a vision for myself. This it.

"In the past I have made an unwise choice to hand power over to a person that exhibits traits of a serious mental disorder. I now know that this was an unhealthy choice. I will pour all of my energy and love into healing and recovering myself, and actively holding myself accountable and responsible for my own life. This includes learning to love, soothe and accept myself, becoming excited about my life and its possibilities, working hard at opportunities that I find stimulating, fathering my children and educating myself about how to act in this r/s, in the healthiest manner possible. I commit to working though a DBT process with her and the children. I recognise I can only change myself and that my spouse will never change. She will always have a serious mental illness. I will do my best. I or my partner may choose to end the r/s... .I know that I have chosen to be independent and healthy emotionally, that I've left nothing on the table and have no regrets about my actions."

I want to see you reach a state of thriving where you feel happy and whole

That's very kind - thanks

I am looking for reassurance that you are making them a priority (you are and that makes me happy).  

They are my first priority! I am drafting a parenting plan which I want W to sign. I have bee trying for 7 months, but she is only getting it now... .finally. I speak to them at least twice a day by phone, and once on skype. So I am very involved in what is happening there. Albeit, not in person :-(

You would have to know my story to really understand why this has been hard for me.  So to have an opportunity to talk with someone who is a Non, who is capable of introspection and is willing to work on their own issues, who does not trigger my issues to the point where I have trouble seeing you as a blessing.

I did read your story, on the other thread. I consider you brave and courageous.

I see you and hear you

[Harri]

Moselle,    that is some powerful imagery and acceptance that you are doing. 

You are welcome by the way.  Thank you for talking with me.  You too are kind.    

I hope your parenting plan goes well and your wife accepts it and follows through.  It sounds like she has some awareness of her disorder so that is very good news.  The best news though is that your kids have you in their corner and you are willing to support, love and validate their experiences.  I have read that it takes just one person who is able to validate and demonstrate unconditional love to save a child.

Thank you for your acceptance and most especially for hearing and seeing me.  I read your comment and caught myself thinking "what thread is he talking about".  Haha, I can only shake my head at my own denial.  When I wrote the line about having to know my story to understand, I had forgotten that I spilled my guts out and posted that thread.  That is some pretty powerful denial, avoidance and lord know what else going on there.  Damn I'm good!  almost every day I have to go back and see and read the thread to remind me but I still forget (obviously).  I forced myself to read it today and I noticed I have no emotions about it.  I fear I have shut down again.  It has been a busy week with appointments but I think now that I have more time to relax, I can get my defenses down.  That is the plan anyway.   

I don't know where else to go with this thread.  Do you?   

[Moselle]

Thanks for your note.

I've needed to re-read my story too LOL. It seems natural to bury hard stuff and pretend it didn't or isn't happening.

I do love my children unconditionally. I phoned them yesterday and just loved them.

Nope, nothing more to add here

[Moselle]

Well I'm feeling very dark, but comfortable. Like "I won't mess with you W, but don't F with me" dark, because you will lose out. I've felt subdued and weak for some time, but there is a dark fighting mood settling on me. Fighting tooth and nail for my and my children's sanity. 

Having been through 14 years of mental, emotional, and physical abuse. (all completely unaware of the damage), then 7 months of separation (all too aware of the damage), I am ready to really tackle this beast.

I'm choosing a recycle as a default. She's suddenly started pulling me back in, and I'm really ready to rip and tear. I'm not angry, just dark, grounded and serious. I feel Wisemind and in control, but calculating and strategic. I do not want to hurt her emotionally, but I do want to hurt her parents, who parade themselves around as the absolute model of parenting. Pious, and perfect. I want to walk up to them calmly and say. you are completely unaware of what I'm about to tell you, but you are plonker-parents, you have ripped the heart and spirit out of your daughter. She was neglected, abused or raised with such rigidity that you inflicted on her. You broke her by loving her conditionally, and punishingly. She is brutal, numb, harsh, critical and has no ability to empathise. All learned in your "special" home. She doesn't feel like an individual, she feels like an extention of your horrible "kingdom" (as the father refers to his family - King Plonker)

You kept it all hidden, but you knew very well what I was getting married to, and did not have the honesty or decency to tell me the truth. I had 3 children with your Borderline Narcissistc daughter, and my children have the same brutal treatment which you taught her as a child.

Shame on you, not on me. SHAME ON YOU!

[Harri]

Moselle, it is my belief that the "dark" place you are in right now is necessary and vital to healing.  I too see it as a place of strength, hard won, and so necessary to continue and go through rather than around and around getting no where, mired down by our own weariness and defeat.  It is a turning point.  At the risk of sounding trite, you sound like a person taking his power back and realizing his own value.  

I'm choosing a recycle as a default.

Does this mean you are moving back in with your wife?

She's suddenly started pulling me back in, and I'm really ready to rip and tear. I'm not angry, just dark, grounded and serious. I feel Wisemind and in control, but calculating and strategic.

Do you want to be pulled back in?  I am wondering if this "dark" will eventually be realized as light as you continue, whether you move back or not.  (That could just be a silly thought of mine, I can't tell).  

Would you ever say anything to her parents if the opportunity arose?

Thanks for posting this here.  Talk about embracing your history and moving beyond to thriving!  I think you are amazing.  

[Moselle]

Moselle, it is my belief that the "dark" place you are in right now is necessary and vital to healing.  I too see it as a place of strength, hard won, and so necessary to continue and go through rather than around and around getting no where, mired down by our own weariness and defeat.  It is a turning point.  At the risk of sounding trite, you sound like a person taking his power back and realizing his own.

Thanks Harri,  I've felt like this before. It's a humble yet dark place. But its also an 'I wont put up with any crap place. And I want to be able to bring it back when I need it. Do you know a way of remembering this, because I'm feeling very empowered, not at the mercy of an abuser. It started with my story the other day on this post. The vision which I shared, and a couple of other posts by others including yours, over the last few days. It's a momentum shift. I know who I was before this abuse and I feel him closer now than at any point in the last 14 years. I had broken the effect of abuse from my mother over a period of 4 years, become someone I liked, though went straight back into an abusive relationship with my W. Why? I guess I was only 4 years old emotionally at that point, and the (perhaps Narcissistic) wound was still subconsciously open.



Does this mean you are moving back in with your wife?



No, very definitely not. She wants that though. She's threatened, cajoled, promised amazing sex, told me how much she and the girls miss me, to get me back there. I do want to move back to the city but I cannot move into a life with her. Perhaps in the long run, after some massive change , but it will be separate homes, with perhaps one week it of the month together with good behaviour.  I can't go back to the nightmare. I would lose credibility with myself. I understand now what she was doing- annihilation, and quite frankly if that continues, I will never go back. I said to the children when I was there last, that I was abused there and I left because of it. They understood. D10 looked at me and nodded her head. My heart breaks that they are there still facing it day to day on their own. But I was broken, I couldn't help them. I'm back now though!. I'm going to name this place that I am 'The Warrior' and summon him when I need him to rip and tear without fear. Skillfully, mindfully,  intelligently. Sometimes with brute force in righteous indignation, but most times with guile, strategy and an enlightened force (spiritual force)



Do you want to be pulled back in?  I am wondering if this "dark" will eventually be realized as light as you continue, whether you move back or not.  (That could just be a silly thought of mine, I can't tell).  

Its a righteous dark. I can't distinguish, because this dark also feels light. Like Wisemind.  A place where I trust myself to discern and act appropriately, most times with quiet strength, but at appropriate times with forceful indignation. I do not get here often, but when I do, people listen LOL. I have some physical stature too - it helps :-)



Would you ever say anything to her parents if the opportunity arose?

It doesn't serve me to lambaste them. So it probably best that I just steer clear. Be polite. But if they want to push my buttons. Well... .that might just be enough, to expound in personal detail, the extent of my BPD knowledge  and it's origins in the family. The father tried with me once and I told him very colourfully what he could do if he ever spoke to me like that again. Bizarre, I told him that, yet listened to and put up with the same crap from his daughter.



Thanks for posting this here.  Talk about embracing your history and moving beyond to thriving!  I think you are amazing.  

It's time for action! I need to embed this, and build some momentum. Thanks for reaching out. I appreciate your help. I see and hear you :-)

[Harri]

I wish I did know a way to tap into the feeling on command when needed.   Oh!  I am not a movie buff at all but there have been two movie scenes running through my mind lately.  The one that might apply here is of Howard Beale in the movie 'Network' where he gives his "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take this any more!" speech.  Are you familiar with it?  There are clips on youtube.  This is the third thread in which I have mentioned this movie.  LOL  It gets me riled up but I don't like to watch it often as it deadens my response.   I wonder if attaching visual images and sounds to the feeling would help to bring it back?  Music, art, a word, a mantra... .whatever works.  *How* to actually attach these things to a feeling?  I haven't a clue.  I haven't felt what you are feeling for a while now, or I should say not to the same degree.  I got complacent again and accepted defeat.  Maybe that is why Howard Beale is sounding in my mind so much.  LOL

Yes!  That's it I think.  Take the Warrior and paint a picture of him in your head; clothes, posture, etc.  Then attach 'weapons' like righteous indignation, spiritual truths, even anger.  Anger is good sometimes.  I used to tap into it soon after I moved away and then visited with my parents.  It can be a powerful motivator.

It's a momentum shift. I know who I was before this abuse and I feel him closer now than at any point in the last 14 years. I had broken the effect of abuse from my mother over a period of 4 years, become someone I liked, though went straight back into an abusive relationship with my W. Why? I guess I was only 4 years old emotionally at that point, and the (perhaps Narcissistic) wound was still subconsciously open.

Yeah, I went back to my family too after I had escaped a bit for college, though I am not sure I ever actually reached the point of liking myself.  I had a lightness to me and I felt free.  Looking back though, I was never free of them and even now that they are dead, I do not feel free.

I am starting to think that recovery from abuse is going to be like it is for alcoholics.  A day by day conscious decision.  One where I have to be ever vigilant so that I do not fall back into patterns that are so ingrained they are like reflexes.  A while back I did some reading on establishing new neural networks, but I am not convinced the new networks will ever be as strong as the original ones.  I did not do a thorough literature review tho, and a lot of the stuff I read was more than a bit over my head.  It seems to me though that there may be a way to establish a new network to tap into what you are feeling now (like I mentioned above with the imagery, music, movie clip, etc.).  I wonder if your T could help with that?

My heart breaks that they are there still facing it day to day on their own. But I was broken, I couldn't help them. I'm back now though!

I think your kids are very fortunate to have you.  As hard as it is to be away from them it was necessary right?  You would not have rediscovered Warrior!  That you are willing to share that with your kids and be open with them is good.  You will be a good example and a safe haven for them.  I don't know if I am supposed to say this, but (!) I am glad that you are so set on not moving back until you see significant and lasting change in your wife.    It is so hard to not get caught up in the chaos and pain.  I am glad you are putting yourself first.

It's time for action! I need to embed this, and build some momentum. Thanks for reaching out. I appreciate your help. I see and hear you :-)

Moselle, you did all the work and it has been very helpful for me too.

I see and hear you too.     Thanks for that, it feels good.

[Moselle]

Harri, I can't remember if it is on this or another post but I shared my story with you about what I've lost the last year, and that I am doing a job right now which is menial but gives me the time to do all of this work on myself. I want to thank you for your insight. I have had a moment in time where I have come to myself in a real way. There was a depressive block,  which has somehow been released, and I thank the Lord, many others and you for the role you've played.

[Harri]

Moselle, you are very welcome, however, you are the one who has done all the hard work. 

Witnessing you finding you again has been a blessing for me so thank *you* for sharing. 

I notice the bright star you now have under your name!  Congrats!  It looks good on you.   

[isilme]

I am trying to take a stance from those who've made it through physically debilitating illnesses - I am not a victim of childhood abuse.  I am a SURVIVOR. 

I've found this helps me a bit, when dealing with new memories, and new realizations that things I'd thought were okay were actually pretty messed up.  Overt abuse and neglect went hand in hand in our house, and while the overt abuse is easy to point out, the neglect I think hurts worse overall.