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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: 3 1/2 weeks... eccentric or BPD?  (Read 449 times)
tiferet
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What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
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« on: September 27, 2014, 07:58:03 AM »

This is all very fresh, but I would like to post about my most recent r/s with a possible BPD.

This relationship was very short-lived, but has left me with a lot of confusion, questions, and pain... .It only lasted a month (3 1/2 weeks, to be exact), but was my most consistently intense relationship while it lasted. I met this person (I'll just call her M.) through a dating website and we went on a first-date that left us both feeling absolutely intoxicated.  We spent the day in a neighboring small town, saw an art installation, and hung out beneath a bridge overlooking the river.  She was very dynamic and expressive, and I have always been more of a receptive listener, so we clicked well.  There was something so seductively brilliant and disheveled about her. She told me she never can make the first move, and I eventually worked up the courage to take her hand.  It was all very sweet.  We eventually went back to her apartment after sunset, and after a couple drinks and much anxious but exhilarating energy between us, she invited me to bed.  The sex was so great; she seemed to exude sexual energy.

We had some correspondence the next day over Facebook.  I told her my fear of getting too close to someone too quickly, having recently lost two loved ones to suicide.  I felt so overwhelmed with emotion toward her that I told her I didn't think I could start a new relationship. I felt miserable to deprive myself of the opportunity for connection and reconsidered over the night.  She said she felt happy I decided to proceed though she would have understood, and that expressing my fears to her made me seem more real.

I had to work the following couple of days. While I was driving home from my long commute, I ran over a log which destroyed two of my tires.  I'm an introvert without a super-scanty support network, and was unsure who else to call on to pick me up.  I didn't even have to ask M. I just told her the situation, and she immediately agreed to come get me and have my car towed back to town, forty-five minutes away.  To give you better dea of her personality, M. is a charismatic, creative, funny person with a large social circle (though later she'd confess she feels like a fraud).  She said she would do the same for any of her friends.

On the way home she said that she felt very interested in forming a relationship with me and I readily agreed.  We spent the day at a waterfall, which was lovely.  I started to think about how inevitable it would be that we would have to part ways eventually (little did I know it would be so soon), and started tearing up at the falls.  I was reluctant to speak of it at first, but then confided that I was still thinking of my father and best friend, who have both committed suicide in the past three years. 

She listened attentively and compassionately, and we ended up speaking long into the night.  She confided in me about her last relationship with a partner (C.) that she described as having anger-management issues, of which she often received the brunt.  She was together with C. for eight years, having broken up with him three months ago.  I assured her that I was not an angry person, and promised her that I would never act out of rage toward her.  The next couple dates were a combination of more intense conversations and exhilerating, tantra-like sex; everything was so great.  Our feelings toward each other seemed were mutually intoxicating, and we agreed to "not play cat and mouse, to not hold back."

M. identifies as bisexual and polyamorous (same as myself) and has a long-term female partner G. that she described as having become more of a support person than sexual partner. (She also is financially dependent on G.) I had met G. previously and thought she was very sweet and transparent, and did not feel threatened by her at all.  I myself have had poly relationships in the past.  I think they can be at least as functional as monogamous relationships with good communication, so this was not an issue for me. 

Before I left for work one day, M. messaged me on Facebook to ask if I minded if she hung out with another person, her (excuse the language) ___-buddy B. that night.  I started to feel a little worried that something more would happen, having never met B., though she assured me it wouldn't, and would have no impact on her feelings toward me.  I told her that her hanging out with B. was fine with me, but that I would rather not hear about it. She said she could not agree to that, as it felt too much like keeping secrets from me. Though I did not ask her to, she said she would call off the date with B. for that night.  Both of us agreed to talk about it in the morning. 

That morning she said she had spent much of the night very upset and had a long discussion with G.  I had told her that if I couldn't get past my own insecurity, it's not her fault, and I would just go my own way.  She said she could not bear it when I said that I might leave, and that she was not okay with my withholding any intimacy from her.  She asked me to never place any of my own insecurities on her, but I found that too vague to agree to.  She eventually asked me to agree to not ask her to change her words, her behavior, or the relationship.  I did agree to those conditions.

I noticed something shifting around this time.  The first few times that we hung out were lit with equal measures of humor and intimate conversation, but her tone toward me was becoming more serious, less mirthful and caring.  We had not had sex for a week, mostly due to logistical issues--we were too tired from staying up late talking, or we accidentally slept in too late. 

The last evening we hung out we went to a bar and had a few drinks.  She started talking about how turned on she felt by me, but said she felt that she would be an inadequate lover due to her chronic pain.  I told her I would be delighted to accommodate her in any way possible, and that I would also be fine if we didn't have sex, since we hadn't had sex the last two or three times we'd hung out and I still had a good time.  I noticed some subtle change of energy when I said this, and wonder if she might have read it as a rejection. 

She said that she also wasn't worried about having sex, but it did worry her that I don't have any close friends. I'm not sure why she brought up that subject... .  I told her that I felt a little attacked, and explained that my work schedule makes it hard to have friends, that I'm very introverted and don't feel a huge need for close friends, and most people's level of conversation bores me.  She said that I was making excuses.  I told her I felt attacked, and she eased up a little.

We went back to her place and had a few more drinks.  For some reason she brought up my lack of close friends again, which I found very intrusive, especially considering her tone, which had turned very harsh.  I told her: "I don't really feel like talking about this now," to which she replied, "Admit you're afraid to have friends."  I thought she was being ridiculously overbearing, and could feel my urge to be defensive start to flare.

"You're ___ing afraid of people, aren't you?"

"I don't think I can process anymore... .  Can we talk about something else?"

"That's not when I'm asking!"

And then I just lost it.  I'm normally as cool as a cucumber, and it takes *a lot* to rouse my temper.  I'm sure that being drunk (and having previously been a very rare drinker before hanging out with her) didn't help either.  I told her I felt like she was coming down on me like a thunderstorm, totally without regard for my feelings, that it was as if she were trying to find my most painful parts and play around in them like a sandbox without any invitation.  I asked her if this was what provoked her ex C.'s anger issues, which was a regrettable low-blow.  I was standing up and yelling while I told her that; very upset.

When I finally managed to calm down enough to sit again, she was raising her voice at me and seemed distraught too, though not as much as I was (at least not outwardly).  She told me, "I can't believe you would yell at me and call me names [which I honestly didn't even do, that is, call her names].  I had to deal with that from C., and I told myself I'd never go through that again." I told her I was sorry, that normally I don't get so upset, that I didn't know what came over me, that I love her. 

Then she said, "You know what, I'm done."

That was so hard for me to hear.  Then she told me that she didn't dump people so I would have to go, though I couldn't bring myself to leave.  We stayed up talking until dawn in her yard.  I told her how sorry I was, that I wanted more than anything in the world to not lose her.  She said that asking hard questions was what she did, and since I didn't like it, I could go on; how dare I raise my voice at her, etc.  At one point she even said she would give me another chance, but then changed her mind.  The couple of times she seemed to calm down, she would go back inside for another cup of wine and then soon be as angry as before. 

She did say a couple things that made me think she was struggling with the decision.  She said that she can't be with someone who doesn't have control of their emotions and projects them onto her, though she couldn't imagine her life without me.  She also said that "as much as breaking up with you will devastate me--and it will devastate me--I will never show that to you."  She said that she wanted nothing more in the world than to go to bed with me, but she knew she could not, for her sake.  She said I was her physical image of perfection, and  I told her she was mine.  She said that she will always compare every new person to me, and I will always compare every woman to her, and neither one of us will ever find anyone better, but we still could not be together.  She finally walked back inside, rather unceremoniously.

I looked back on the situation the next day and wondered if the stimulant medication I take for ADD played a part in me losing my temper, as well as the copious amount of alcohol.  M. had said she drinks to help control her chronic nerve pain (most likely fibromyalgia it seems, though it's not treated/diagnosed).  But I myself was very much not used to having more than one drink at a time, and probably had four when I started yelling.  I texted her and asked her if I could bring my stimulant meds to her apartment, so I wouldn't be tempted to take them, and she agreed. 

She seemed remorseful about the previous night when I saw her, and said that it takes "two to tango," and asked if she was being too harsh.  I told her no, that I shouldn't have yelled at her, that I was very sorry.  I wanted more than anything to get back together, but wondered if that was unhealthy after all this.  I also didn't want my apology to seem disingenuous, so told her I needed to work on myself, but hoped that maybe we could re-assess in the future.  She said that maybe we could, but she's not going to let herself be hopeful about the relationship for her sanity.  She said that it would take her a good two weeks to return to baseline.

Since that time, I've sent her numerous Facebook messages, emphasizing how sorry I am, never daring to place any responsibility on her.  Her responses are always short and not revealing of any emotion whatsoever.  At one point she said, "I honestly am not feeling much.  I miss you and think fondly of you, but I have assessed the situation and space is what's needed.  I will let you know when I want to see you again... .  Let me be clear:  I need space until I tell you otherwise.  For me it's a question of whether our internal states will align.  Why rush?  We have lots of time, and habits take time to solidify." (As as is probably evident, M. is a very direct person, so I find it encouraging she said "when" instead of "if" I want to see you.) She said she does not mind getting notes from me, but there is such a change from the gentle and euphoric messages we used to exchange.  I want so very badly to get back together with her, to know where I stand with her, and am not sure how to proceed.  It's been twelve days now since I saw her. 

She also recently wrote that she's not carrying around any residual heaviness from that night, when I asked her on FB chat. I don't understand why she doesn't want to just meet up and move forward, in whatever direction.  On one hand, I want to be patient with her and on the other, I wonder how long I allow myself to be strung along before asking for some resolution or closure.  I told her I would be there for her, waiting with love, but really it's a lot to bear.  I wonder if I'm seeing like a doormat, or if assuring her of my support is good for building the relationship.  I am afraid that asking her for some resolution would almost certainly end the relationship, as lately her tone has been very impersonal if not cold.

I'm really struggling to understand how she's feeling, and find it hard to not constantly think about whether the relationship is going to survive this.  Her "quick to attach and detach" style seems characteristic of BPD, but I would love to hear other input. I wonder too if her behavior might be consistent with a non-BPD (if eccentric) person?  Maybe she's actually being reasonable, by leaving me in the dark?  How long is it reasonable for this to go on, if we were only together for 3 1/2 weeks, and it's been 12 days?  And what could she be gaining by not wanting to meet up and clear the air?

What is the best move to ensure she'll want to talk to me again?  Should I ask her for resolution/closure, and if so, when would be a reasonable time period? (I know that might vary, depending on BPD-status.)  Should I continue to send her notes expressing love and support, at the risk of sounding needy or like a doormat, or should I try to not contact her at all?
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Mutt
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10396



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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 11:45:44 PM »

Hi tiferet,

I'd like to start off by saying we're not professionals. I can't diagnose my ex.

She alters reality often. That's a sign of mental illness. I look at it as having traits, negative ones.

What sorts of toxic behaviors do I allow on the self?

I'm sorry that everything is so raw. That really hurts when your in a r/s with a borderline

The sex was so great; she seemed to exude sexual energy.

I understand there's a sort of electricity with a pwBPD. I like how you described it tantra-like. I can relate.

I didn't even have to ask M. I just told her the situation, and she immediately agreed to come get me and have my car towed back to town, forty-five minutes away.

The honeymoon? Idealization phase. When I was put on the pedestal I could ask for anything. In the context of BPD, you're all good. Or she could be a very nice person.

To give you better dea of her personality, M. is a charismatic, creative, funny person with a large social circle

An extrovert. Draws her energy outward.

On the flip side, my ex is uBPD and narcissist or co-morbid. BPD/NPD. She loves and is happy when the attention from a group was on her.

On the way home she said that she felt very interested in forming a relationship with me and I readily agreed.

A pwBPD lack boundaries and move quickly they act impulsively.

She confided in me about her last relationship with a partner (C.) that she described as having anger-management issues, of which she often received the brunt.

Waif. She's acting on your sympathy. She could be projecting herself on C at the same time.

has a long-term female partner G. that she described as having become more of a support person than sexual partner. (She also is financially dependent on G.)

From my experience. My ex likes to be parented and looked after and I'm sorry financially as well. I don't mean just by myself but her mother helped her a lot financially.

It sounds like G is an enabler.

That morning she said she had spent much of the night very upset and had a long discussion with G.  I had told her that if I couldn't get past my own insecurity, it's not her fault, and I would just go my own way.  She said she could not bear it when I said that I might leave, and that she was not okay with my withholding any intimacy from her.  She asked me to never place any of my own insecurities on her, but I found that too vague to agree to.  She eventually asked me to agree to not ask her to change her words, her behavior, or the relationship.  I did agree to those conditions.

It sounds like FOG from G and triangulating you. G is the rescuer, M is the victim and your are the bad person. The persecutor.

There's a fear of abandonment if you leave.

Let's say she's borderline and dissociates. Dissociation is changing reality to match a borderlines out of place feelings. Changing reality or disassociating in the sense of lying.

So it's confusing when you think that you heard something, M is dissociative and lying altering reality. There's projection in here too she's role reversing.

"to not ask her to change her words"

It's projecting her dissociative behaviors. Don't change her behavior means "let me do what I want". Borderline queen.

but said she felt that she would be an inadequate lover due to her chronic pain.

The relationship changed because the honeymoon is over. The idealization phase and the attention is turned on her and her woes - her chronic pain. She wants you to feel sorry.

For some reason she brought up my lack of close friends again, which I found very intrusive, especially considering her tone, which had turned very harsh.  I told her: "I don't really feel like talking about this now," to which she replied, "Admit you're afraid to have friends."  I thought she was being ridiculously overbearing, and could feel my urge to be defensive start to flare.

"You're ___ing afraid of people, aren't you?"

"I don't think I can process anymore... . Can we talk about something else?"

"That's not when I'm asking!"

The honeymoon is over. She put you on a pedestal. She's denigrating you with asking you why don't you have any close friends.

Idealization, devaluation.

She told me, "I can't believe you would yell at me and call me names [which I honestly didn't even do, that is, call her names].  I had to deal with that from C., and I told myself I'd never go through that again."

She is projecting her actions on C. She's also emotionally blackmailing you (FOG)

She wants you to feel Guilt from FOG Fear Obligation Guilt.

She wants you to feel bad for her for what C did. She's the one that treated C badly (projecting)

Then she said, "You know what, I'm done."

Fear of abandonment. Perceived or real is what borderlines fear most.

how dare I raise my voice at her, etc

You have Fear and Guilt from FOG.

She said that she can't be with someone who doesn't have control of their emotions and projects them onto her, though she couldn't imagine her life without me.

She's dissociating and projected herself on you.

had said she drinks to help control her chronic nerve pain (most likely fibromyalgia it seems, though it's not treated/diagnosed).

As I said earlier, phantoms pains are traits of borderline waifs. To feel sympathy.

She said that it would take her a good two weeks to return to baseline.

Is she self aware?

She feels engulfed when she said she needs her own space. I'm thinking she knows there's something not right with her.

tiferet I'm really sorry for what you went through. You feel confused, anxious, frustrated with your gf's behavior.

It feels like your walking on eggshells. She's not an eccentric non.

She has BPD traits. She is a toxic person.

I'm happy that you have found us

I hope that helps.


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