"uncooperative and disagreeable."

[Iforget]

In June I retained a Lawyer.  Told the spouse I wanted a divorce.  I took some money out of the joint checking account.

Life has been a nightmare ever since.  My stbxudbp flipped out.  He had been working on taking control of all the finances for months.  He cleaned out the accounts I had access too.  Even sneaked into my room and took the cash out of my wallet.  We had one mediation session.  I came away with a tiny weekly check to for personal expenses and groceries and a parenting schedule.  All this is going on while living in the same house. Not to go into a long story, but due to health issue I can't work.  He makes a lot of money and I never needed to work before.  I have been a sahm for 20 years. 

I already switched layers once.  The current one was recommended by a psychiatrist. Supposedly they have experience with "High conflict cases."  Well already went through the money I had.  Paid some more on Discover card.  Last night I get a letter stating, "opposing counsel is not responding to us in regards to confirming the next settlement conference until they too have received additional disclosure of information as well. "  This is a total joke.  stbx closed accounts and changed passwords before I could print statements.  I had three months worth that I already supplied the lawyers.  The accounts were all in stbx's name and me as co. All he has to do is print a statement. 

I think it is all a stall.  I think he wants me desperate so I will take what ever crumb he offers.  He is loaded. My lawyer is asking for spousal support above the average income and he is able to pay it.  Due to my health I can't just walk away.  I gave up a career to follow him through 7 moves and climb the corporate ladder.  I raised kids by myself so he could work 80 hours a week. All of this on top of his wierd-a$$ personality crap and emotional abuse.  I would of left sooner if I could.  One kid left home after his dad beat him up.  The others keep asking when we can leave.  Life is hell.  I have told the lawyer I think we should just go to court.  Get emergency support in place so the kids and I can leave.  Please advise, I know a lot of you have been through this.  Just don't know what to do.

[ForeverDad]

We had one mediation session.  I came away with a tiny weekly check to for personal expenses and groceries and a parenting schedule.

Mediation usually does not succeed because it is too early in the divorce process, the disordered stbEx is simply too entitle and controlling to voluntarily agree to anything reasonable.  Often, but not always, a reasonable settlement can be reached just before or during a big event such as a major hearing or trial.

Last night I get a letter stating, "opposing counsel is not responding to us in regards to confirming the next settlement conference until they too have received additional disclosure of information as well."  This is a total joke.  stbx closed accounts and changed passwords before I could print statements.  I had three months worth that I already supplied the lawyers.  The accounts were all in stbx's name and me as co. All he has to do is print a statement.

It sounds like you'll need a forensic accountant, sometimes called a Special Master.  You may not find all the places he's hidden money without an expert appointed by the court to be proactive on the side of financial Full Disclosure.  If you do know the banks where the accounts had been, you can contact them to request copies of past statements even if the accounts are closed but it might not be free.  Meanwhile, you respond as best you can, "I have provided all the documents I have.  StbEx removed funds and closed the accounts I had access to, he can make them available to the lawyers."

I think it is all a stall.  I think he wants me desperate so I will take what ever crumb he offers... .  Life is hell.  I have told the lawyer I think we should just go to court.  Get emergency support in place so the kids and I can leave.

Definitely proceed to court if you don't want to waste more months of non-responses and new demands and loopholes.  Your lawyer should have figured this out already, "high conflict" people almost always use Delays to keep in control and sabotage the other spouse.  The fact that you have to tell him this makes me concerned that he really doesn't understand what he is facing.  Do you have Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy & Randi Kreger?  It is an essential book in our cases.  It and other resources are described in our Book Review and Article Review boards.  Bill Eddy is a social worker, lawyer, mediator, author (HighConflictInstitute.com), lecturer to lawyers & judges, etc.  However, us common and unlettered people can understand his books quite well, thank you very much.  So your lawyer better not pooh-pooh his observations and legal strategies.

My case lasted about 2 years, and that was keeping everything going as fast as I could.  Meanwhile my ex obstructed and delayed as much as she could since the temporary order was heavily in her favor.  Surprise, on Trial Morning about 5 minutes before trial I was told my ex finally was willing to settle.

My time line in the divorce from when I filed:

• 2 months - Temp hearing, part 1



• 1 months - Temp hearing, part 2



• 2 months - Mediation (one failed attempt)



• 4 months - Parenting investigation by court's social worker



• 4 months - Custody evaluation



• 1 months - Custody evaluation extended for translator (ex faked not knowing English well)



• 2 months - Settlement conference (one failed attempt)



• 4 months - Scheduled trial (finally settled but not until Trial Morning)



• 2 months - Final Decree

So, yes, keep things moving in court, get it moving now.  If they seriously want to settle, they'll make reasonable offers.  Whatever else, keep the case moving in court.  Expect to be delayed by multiple motions for Continuances.  The judge may allow a few at first but soon the judge will get peeved and start denying them without very good basis.  You are more likely to get a better outcome with a judge than with your stbEx, at least at this point in time.

[momtara]

yeah, you may need to go to court.  also, to get a low cost attorney or something like that.  I have gotten free credit cards and put money on them.  if you have an attorney who is good in court, maybe you can get some money from your ex and solve a lot of your problems.  it's called pendente lite in my state - you do an emergency hearing to get the support you need.

[Iforget]

Good advice.

This is what I have written to my attorney, not mailed yet:

My understanding is that the point of mediation is to reach an agreement to keep from going to court. If this is the intent then why isn't Mr. Poulsen and counsel not being more cooperative?  What do they gain by being difficult and disagreeable?  Mr. Poulsen was not agreeable and cooperative during our marriage.  Is his lawyer not able to rein in his behavior?  Or is his counsel working some strategy trying to get me to take some sort of action?

I need to start receiving spousal support and child support asap.  If I run out of money and this has not happened I will have no options.  Allowing Mr. Poulsen to continue to control and steer the direction of the divorce is not going to work.  Once again I suggest we go to court.  Can we not request an emergency hearing to request support then return to trying mediation?  I want a direct answer to this question?  I need assertive action.  My kids and I are suffering and nothing is happening to change this.

Do you think this is direct enough?  Last month I had a "come to Jesus," talk with the lawyer to redirect them.  They were fussing over all the financials.  I had told them like 5 times that support and moving were my priorities.  So we have the meeting, and nothing has happened.  They bill me $500 for the meeting.  Now it has been three months since the last mediation meeting and no appointment has been set for another.  Let me know what you think.  If you think this is the right thing to do then I will TELL the lawyer this is what to do.  I'm tired of them doing nothing.

[ForeverDad]

My understanding is that the point of mediation is to reach an agreement to keep from going to court.

Sadly, cases involving spouses with behaviors indicating BPD, NPD, etc do not find success with early mediation.  In nearly every case described here, "starting with mediation to avoid court" fails miserably because the stbEx is simply too entitled and controlling to actually negotiate productively.  The entitled stbEx needs to find out that the Court is the Real Authority and that takes time and repeated appearances in court.

I don't know your state, we're peer support and not lawyers here and so of course I don't know the rules there.  In my state once you file for divorce you automatically get a hearing date.  For me that took nearly 2 months to get a half hour hearing due to the caseload, but (1) temporary custody (2) temporary parenting schedule and (3) temporary support were the very first things addressed by the court, even before mediation and evaluations.

Does your state allow you the option to request stbEx vacate during the divorce so your life is not constantly in turmoil?  You may have to provide examples why you need possession of the home and him living elsewhere while things are sorted out.

Do keep in mind that the courts give far more attention to the parenting behaviors (how children are impacted) than to the adult behaviors (how you are impacted).

[Iforget]

Thanks for the response Forever Dad.

I think I will reword my email to the lawyer.  I don't think she realizes the games stbx will play.  She is super reluctant to go to court.  I will tell her I want a hearing scheduled, Now. Stbx is super passive-aggressive.  He plays the money card with the kids. Like, I will pay for you to go to your activity if you do xyz with me.  We have a parenting schedule now, as to who is responsible for dinner and transportation.  I was very generous with the time. He already has given up.  Left the kids at the gym for three hours and didn't answer the phone after even 5 calls.  Never leaves money for expenses.  Daughter used allowance to pay for riding lessons.

I think a judge will be more generous than he will with the money.  I may be wrong, but its a risk I am willing to take.  Finding hidden accounts is what brought the divorce to a head. 

[momtara]

I think you can shorter your first paragraph.  Second one is key.

Well, court is expensive.  However, you can add those costs into what you ask for.  I agree with you - if they are going to hedge and play games, your atty should tell them they are going to court unless you agree to a certain amount by X date -- and you will also ask for court costs to be awarded.  Also, it can be given to you via garnishing his salary.  Maybe they will want to avoid court too.  Without pressing them, they have no incentive to bother.

[ForeverDad]

Perhaps too you need to find out precisely WHY your lawyer wants to avoid court.  Yes, most divorces do end in settlement, but how you get there is what is different with us than with most divorces.  With us we have to drag our ex-spouses kicking and screaming to a realistic outcome.  They won't find their way there on their own.  Not if you don't want to sabotage yourself and gift everything away.

A passive "let's make a deal" approach to a high conflict divorce doesn't work.  Remember the old saying, the immovable object meets the irresistible object?  One of them needs to be You, aided with improving boundaries, anything less and you won't come out well.  For sure stbEx is the other one.  You need to be both assertive and proactive.  You need strategies, multiple ones because not everything works and some work better than others.

[walksoftly]

Here's my story:

Ex assaulted me in front of my nine year old daughter while she was in an affair.

Reported her to the police but decided not to press charges.

Reported her to ministry of children and families

Spoke with friend and decided to press charges.

Interviewed by Police and ex stated I in fact hit her.

Peace Bond went to crown but was dismissed.

Ex tried to get a restraining order

Went to court and won.

Ex ignored visitation three times, went to court three times.

Ex wanted third party visitation

went to court and had it quashed.

ex reported me to ministry of children and families- they ignored her complaint.

went to mediation -  tried to stop her from moving away with my daughter

decided to allow the move

[Iforget]

So this is what I sent:

Dear Mrs. L,

I have reviewed yesterday's email, along will all correspondence since June.

I want to go to court now.  I want a hearing to establish spousal support, child support, visitation and $13,000 in cash.

We can discuss continuing mediation after physical separation has taken place.

I put in the $13000 because that is half of what was in the savings when he shut me out of the account.  It has been two days and L hasn't written/called.  Guess we will see.  In the mean time stbx found out I had my mail forwarded to a PO box.  He flipped out of course.  Came home in the middle of the day.  Started to yell then saw I was on the phone. Uuugh.

[ForeverDad]

Umm, you are (quietly) recording his outbursts, right?  For documentation only, not to irritate him with a microphone in his face.  I recorded and my ex never knew and all that she said and did was so cringe-worthy and self-sabotaging.  Not that it was of much use, only a small number were ever used with CPS and family court, but it made it clear who was the one misbehaving and it sure wasn't me.

Depending on the extent of his rants/raging and at whom they're directed, they may be of use to demonstrate why you need physical separation, perhaps even limiting his contact with the children if he is perceived as abusive, neglectful or endangering to the children.

And don't forget to ask for the order to include that he continues paying the mortgage, utilities, insurance for home, vehicles and medical, etc.  I get the feeling that you can't afford to pay all those expenses for any length of time and without it included in the order he'll likely stop paying them.

[momtara]

Good.  Don't negotiate against yourself - ask for more than you need, but make it clear why.

My L was always busy with a million things.  You may have to call her or her assistant and figure out how to proceed to an emergency hearing so you can get some money, if that's what you need.