BPD vs. BPD/NPD

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I have noticed from the stories shared in this forum that whilst there is a common relationship pattern and dynamic with pwBPD to my story there are also some striking differences.

Some people have been with a pwBPD that in their calm moments have apologised or even thanked their non partner for dealing with all their sht.  I have to say that I have not been as near as blessed in my experience with my ex as that. She never apologised for anything, aside couple of times with an "I am sorry YOU feel this way BUT... .".  A thank you for dealing with all her sht would have been music in my ears. Her sht was ALWAYS because of me.

Was she BPD/NPD combo? What are your experiences?

[freedom33]

I have noticed from the stories shared in this forum that whilst there is a common relationship pattern and dynamic with pwBPD to my story there are also some striking differences.

Some people have been with a pwBPD that in their calm moments have apologised or even thanked their non partner for dealing with all their sht.  I have to say that I have not been as near as blessed in my experience with my ex as that. She never apologised for anything, aside couple of times with an "I am sorry YOU feel this way BUT... .".  A thank you for dealing with all her sht would have been music in my ears. Her sht was ALWAYS because of me.

Was she BPD/NPD combo? What are your experiences?

[Take2]

A very goo topic. One that I've been thinking about alot because I believe my ex might be BPD/aspd... .or npd... .I have no idea.  I do know that a few rare occasions he accepted responsibility for his heinous actions.   But 99% of the time blamed me.  I foolishly went to lunch with him today.   He was as cold and cruel as anyone could ever be I think.  He lacks empathy completely.   If today was his true colors... .I've been thinking maybe he really is just a psychopath.   But he left work abruptly half way through the day.  I think it truly got to him and he had to go home and reset his head.  If he did actually feel anything today about how cruel he has been to me it will be long gone by work tomorrow with new blame coming my way.

My ex does seem to be extreme in his rages and anger.   Seeing as how he's never gotten help because of course he's not the one with a problem ... I hasn't been formally diagnosed. ... .but all 3 disorders scream at me.t

[Recooperating]

Mine would say "sorry" and it would seem very sincere. But the next day he would have twisted and turned the events and blame me for it.

In retrospect I think he would only apologize to lure me back in, manipulation in it purest form. A "sorry" to me is sincere when you did something wrong or hurtfull and then try to never do it again. To me thats taking responsibility... .

Not raging, abusing... .Saying your sorry... .Twist it the next day and start a new rage again.

He was diagnosed with BPD, but I think there's NPD in there too. But frankly to me it doesnt matter anymore. Its a PD, and its not working for me so... .

[Infern0]

I think there is a lot of crossover with the PD's

Very early in our interaction,  weeks before we got in a relationship we would be talking on the phone and she would tell me she was taking a dump.  At the time I thought it was kind of odd but funny.  

Looking back that's textbook histrionic.  

I think that most of them pick up traits though,  in the case of mine her two friends one is a NPD and one is HPD so I don't know If she either picks up their traits or just mirrors them.

She is very inconsistent with her behavior though,  often falls out with her friends and then "doesn't want to be like them"

She's much easier to deal with when they aren't winding her up.

[pieceofme]

my ex never apologized, not once ever! i was to blame for his rages because "i made him mad" (his exact words). i could never get to the bottom of what exactly i did that "made him mad," though.

take2, my ex sounds the same as yours. in recent months, i have frequently used the term "psychopath." it's scary.

[amigo]

I have decided that my ex bf,  who has 7 of the 9 criteria for BPD, most definitely has very strong NPD traits as well. He even once said, "there is nothing wrong with being a narcissist, if it doesn't affect you in a negative way"... .so he actually admitted to being a narcissist (withouth me ever calling him that), although he is in complete denial about BPD. It is always everybody else's fault and all his relationships ended because the woman who his was with was bad or crazy or turned out to be wrong for him.

I never received a genuine apology for any of the things he did or said. Only apologies when he wanted me to forgive him and give him another chance. Even tearful and dramatic (on his knees) at times, then when I wouldn't succumb, he would suddenly turn cold and walk away as if he hadn't been begging me to forgive him only a few minutes ago.

I too think there is a lot of overlap with PDs and I also think that in men the BPD/NPD combo may be more prevalent than in women, judging by everything I have read about the disorder and the stories on here. Maybe females tend to be more histrionic? Also our society seems to be more accepting of male narcissistic behavior and female histrionic behavior?

But I agree with recooperating, in the end it probably doesn't matter. They are disordered, they abused us and it is not working, and we need to move on with our lives.

[Blimblam]

I think there is a lot of crossover with the PD's

Very early in our interaction,  weeks before we got in a relationship we would be talking on the phone and she would tell me she was taking a dump.  At the time I thought it was kind of odd but funny.  

Looking back that's textbook histrionic.  

I think that most of them pick up traits though,  in the case of mine her two friends one is a NPD and one is HPD so I don't know If she either picks up their traits or just mirrors them.

She is very inconsistent with her behavior though,  often falls out with her friends and then "doesn't want to be like them"

She's much easier to deal with when they aren't winding her up.

Yes I agree. With this they pick up traits from friends.  After me my ex attached to a hpd/npd girl. That girl had a lot of friends who were heavily narcisistic. This seemed to inspire my ex to become more attention seeking and narcissistic overtly. At the same time those made her feel empowered so she claims to have "grown" so much as a person.  In reality she just picked up more manipulative strategies for narcissistic supply and feels less remorse for her actions.

My brother is BPD/psychopath comorbid.   I really think many of the males with BPD will have a higher percentage to be comorbid with psychopathy and

Npd.  While the borderline female a higher tendency to be comorbid with hpd. The narcissism in always there and just depends if it is inverted or overt.

I believe the comorbities tie into the BPD subtype.  Waif, queen, witch, siren, hermit. Identify which subtype and that is a recipe for an admixture of traits from other "PDs".

[Waifed]

My ex had strong BPD and Avoidant PD traits. She was very self absorbed once she got her hooks in me but, I wouldn't consider her full blown NPD. I think she bounced back and forth between being very self confident and having a total lack of self esteem. I think she was so obsessed with me leaving the last few months that she was totally dysregulated. She did what I asked and preferred for me to make decisions. She never in 3 years turned me down for sex or used sex to overtly control me.

All in all it is amazing to me now that I would have stayed so long in such a crazy situation.

[EaglesJuju]

Many of the DSM V cluster B (ASPD, BPD, HPD, NPD) and cluster C  personality disorders overlap and can be diagnosed simultaneously.  My pwBPD has a lot of the criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder with a bit of NPD.  I think that is probably why I got moments of "clarity" when I was thanked for putting up with his ___.  

[Loveofhislife]

Disclaimer: Probably oversimplifying here, but I have been in relationships with both NPD and BPD, so here are some very rudimentary differences (in my opinion). NPD has control of their emotions; they are strategic and planful.  It was cut and dry.  You were lured because you were supply who met their needs at the time. You are discarded when they determine you no longer meet their needs. They are predatory--not random, and usually VERY high functioning.  Many successful business people, faith leaders, and politicians probably meet criteria for NPD. You will forever be kept on the sidelines for recycling (after all, it's not personal for them).  As for BPD--I find that they have narcissistic traits, but they are highly emotional and seem out of control of their emotions much of the time--UNTIL the Silent Protector appears and changes the game. pwBPD do all kinds of things to try to get control of their emotions (addictions, cutting/self-harm, attachments), but the very things that once soothed them eventually begin to trigger them.  I once read where all narcissists are not BPD but all pwBPD are narcissistic.  Also, I read that a key differential is that pwBPD will throw the baby out with the bath water (not strategic)--that when one thing goes wrong in the life of a pwBPD (real or imagined), they will throw out the good, the bad, and the ugly.  This seems to make sense to me when I read our stories of being dumped when we may well have been the greatest asset in their lives.

[Blimblam]

Disclaimer: Probably oversimplifying here, but I have been in relationships with both NPD and BPD, so here are some very rudimentary differences (in my opinion). NPD has control of their emotions; they are strategic and planful.  It was cut and dry.  You were lured because you were supply who met their needs at the time. You are discarded when they determine you no longer meet their needs. They are predatory--not random, and usually VERY high functioning.  Many successful business people, faith leaders, and politicians probably meet criteria for NPD. You will forever be kept on the sidelines for recycling (after all, it's not personal for them).  As for BPD--I find that they have narcissistic traits, but they are highly emotional and seem out of control of their emotions much of the time--UNTIL the Silent Protector appears and changes the game. pwBPD do all kinds of things to try to get control of their emotions (addictions, cutting/self-harm, attachments), but the very things that once soothed them eventually begin to trigger them.  I once read where all narcissists are not BPD but all pwBPD are narcissistic.  Also, I read that a key differential is that pwBPD will throw the baby out with the bath water (not strategic)--that when one thing goes wrong in the life of a pwBPD (real or imagined), they will throw out the good, the bad, and the ugly.  This seems to make sense to me when I read our stories of being dumped when we may well have been the greatest asset in their lives.

This makes a lost of sense.

[blissful_camper]

Disclaimer: Probably oversimplifying here, but I have been in relationships with both NPD and BPD, so here are some very rudimentary differences (in my opinion). NPD has control of their emotions; they are strategic and planful.  It was cut and dry.  You were lured because you were supply who met their needs at the time. You are discarded when they determine you no longer meet their needs. They are predatory--not random, and usually VERY high functioning.  Many successful business people, faith leaders, and politicians probably meet criteria for NPD. You will forever be kept on the sidelines for recycling (after all, it's not personal for them).  As for BPD--I find that they have narcissistic traits, but they are highly emotional and seem out of control of their emotions much of the time--UNTIL the Silent Protector appears and changes the game. pwBPD do all kinds of things to try to get control of their emotions (addictions, cutting/self-harm, attachments), but the very things that once soothed them eventually begin to trigger them.  I once read where all narcissists are not BPD but all pwBPD are narcissistic.  Also, I read that a key differential is that pwBPD will throw the baby out with the bath water (not strategic)--that when one thing goes wrong in the life of a pwBPD (real or imagined), they will throw out the good, the bad, and the ugly.  This seems to make sense to me when I read our stories of being dumped when we may well have been the greatest asset in their lives.

Interesting.  Thank you for sharing.  My ex appeared to be in control of his emotions.  On the exterior it seemed that way unless you knew him well enough to see his emotions surfacing through mild anxiety, and depression (which he hid well).  It was kind of like a tea kettle that was about to steam and whistle.  There was a lot going on emotionally all the time which he didn't/couldn't express.  Until he exploded.  That's when he unleashed his emotions (primarily anger).  He cycled every 2 to 3 days.  In close quarters such as vacations, the cycles were half that.  Is that common BPD behavior?  Or more along the lines of NPD?  Or both?  He just wasn't at all comfortable discussing his feelings.  When he did, he retreated into protector-mode.   

[lm911]

For me the main difference between NPD and BPD is that recycling is more common in NPD and they recycle for 5,6 times as for BPD once something is over, it is really over. They paint you black and it over. NPD don't see the world in black and white. They just want attention and drama. BPD don't know what they want.

[sirius]

my exgf of 13 years (i knew her when she was 17yo) and now she's 30. I have no knowledge of PD until 6 months ago.  At early stage of the relationship, she was more Histrionic traits than BPD except for the mood swings, then as she gets older she starts to question about her emotional unstability. Past couple of years, she actually thinks she has Bipolar because of the mood swings. She actually said "I think i have bipolar".

[Fluff]

I've been thinking about this a lot. Both in regards to my ex and myself. But I'm not really getting anywhere. The more I read about cluster B and C the more DSM-V makes sense. My intuition is it should still be possible to categorize the PDs, but with all the npd and BPD subtypes and comorbidites something was obviously off with DSM-IV.

I have two examples of BPD and BPD/npd.

My best friend was diagnosed BPD. He was full off childhood shame to the point where he believed every person on the street hated him and thought he was disgusting, which made him very avoidant and paranoid. In the end he couldn't handle the shame anymore and hung himself a couple of weeks ago. This shame together with his addiction and impulsivity was the reason he got diagnosed BPD. He had no NPD traits at all. He was a very caring, sensitive and empathic person but with no need to show a "good" persona.

Then, my uBPDex had strong NPD traits. Before I knew any of this I used to say she had the angel syndrome or martyr syndrome, always helping others and rescuing dogs, but in a sacrifical way. I believe she was truly empathic, like my friend, but there was a self-image involved. She was a "good" person. Always posting on facebook, making sure everybody knows that she's a good person.

Weird thing, my friend couldn't really apologize, he couldn't handle it. There were too much shame. He couldn't even face his mistakes and thus learn from them. Just a cycle of: building up a life -> tearing it apart -> suicide attempt -> hospitalization -> repeat.

My ex at the other hand did say she was sorry and even, months after going ghost on me, told me how sorry she was for hurting me so. She was even aware of what was going on. Both her and her dBPD best friend told me her mother was addicted to men and that my ex was following the same behavior. She also had enough insight to know that she needed to be alone. But then, I was instead replaced...

I don't know... it's a mess...

[EaglesJuju]

I've been thinking about this a lot. Both in regards to my ex and myself. But I'm not really getting anywhere. The more I read about cluster B and C the more DSM-V makes sense. My intuition is it should still be possible to categorize the PDs, but with all the npd and BPD subtypes and comorbidites something was obviously off with DSM-IV.

I have two examples of BPD and BPD/npd.

My best friend was diagnosed BPD. He was full off childhood shame to the point where he believed every person on the street hated him and thought he was disgusting, which made him very avoidant and paranoid. In the end he couldn't handle the shame anymore and hung himself a couple of weeks ago. This shame together with his addiction and impulsivity was the reason he got diagnosed BPD. He had no NPD traits at all. He was a very caring, sensitive and empathic person but with no need to show a "good" persona.

Then, my uBPDex had strong NPD traits. Before I knew any of this I used to say she had the angel syndrome or martyr syndrome, always helping others and rescuing dogs, but in a sacrifical way. I believe she was truly empathic, like my friend, but there was a self-image involved. She was a "good" person. Always posting on facebook, making sure everybody knows that she's a good person.

Weird thing, my friend couldn't really apologize, he couldn't handle it. There were too much shame. He couldn't even face his mistakes and thus learn from them. Just a cycle of: building up a life -> tearing it apart -> suicide attempt -> hospitalization -> repeat.

My ex at the other hand did say she was sorry and even, months after going ghost on me, told me how sorry she was for hurting me so. She was even aware of what was going on. Both her and her dBPD best friend told me her mother was addicted to men and that my ex was following the same behavior. She also had enough insight to know that she needed to be alone. But then, I was instead replaced...

I don't know... it's a mess...

From what you are saying about your ex, it is highly unlikely she is fully NPD.  People with NPD do not have empathy. On the other hand, she might have empathetic qualities, but qualify for NPD due to the diagnostic criteria. That is the caveat to the DSM V diagnoses, it is  somewhat ambiguous and generalized. 

[Loveofhislife]

My T doesn't use diagnostic criteria--she has been practicing for 40+ years at Ph.D level and finds the criteria changing from one version to another not to be helpful--in fact, she finds diagnoses, in general, to be confining. When I start with the analyzing of exbfBPD, she says this is yet another escape (of pain) for me and an avoidance of dealing with the real issues: my FOO and resulting codependence on men with narcissistic traits like my father. I have repeated this pattern throughout adulthood, and may not survive (and certainly not thrive) another round with exbfBPD. So--I just go back to the basics--not the the DSM. There is no doubt I have a vulnerability and attraction to what is familiar to me: people with narcissistic traits. But NEVER had I been so utterly devastated by someone or something as I have been by exbfBPD. Last night a girl friend told me to remember Maya Angelou's words and literally thank him for leading me to a place where I can finally face my own issues--which also I think the DSM does a poor job of describing.

[Take2]

My best friend was diagnosed BPD. He was full off childhood shame to the point where he believed every person on the street hated him and thought he was disgusting, which made him very avoidant and paranoid. In the end he couldn't handle the shame anymore and hung himself a couple of weeks ago. This shame together with his addiction and impulsivity was the reason he got diagnosed BPD. He had no NPD traits at all. He was a very caring, sensitive and empathic person but with no need to show a "good" persona.

Fluff... .  I'm so sorry to hear about your bff... .  that is so sad... .  and must affect you tremendously.

[Fluff]

My best friend was diagnosed BPD. He was full off childhood shame to the point where he believed every person on the street hated him and thought he was disgusting, which made him very avoidant and paranoid. In the end he couldn't handle the shame anymore and hung himself a couple of weeks ago. This shame together with his addiction and impulsivity was the reason he got diagnosed BPD. He had no NPD traits at all. He was a very caring, sensitive and empathic person but with no need to show a "good" persona.

Fluff... . I'm so sorry to hear about your bff... . that is so sad... . and must affect you tremendously.

You know what's sad? I only think about my ex. Only. I can't even mourn my best friend, I'm too busy mourning the death of a fantasy girl...  

[Take2]

You know what's sad? I only think about my ex. Only. I can't even mourn my best friend, I'm too busy mourning the death of a fantasy girl...  

I understand... .  it's so hard to get over the addiction to them... .  I have struggled big time.  I have read all about personality disorders.  Been in therapy.  Gone to domestic violence counselor.  Read all about abuse.  Take antidepressants.  Tried 12 step programs.  I'm finally focusing on addiction recovery.  Addiction to a person, addiction to drama.  Because there is no love left with my ex.  Unfortunately we work together so NC has been very very difficult to maintain.  I lost my dad two years ago and my ex put me thru hell during that time.  And yet I couldn't bring myself to kick him out of my life completely because I couldn't handle losing him on top of my dad.  I look back at how much my involvement with this guy interfered with my last year with my dad... .it makes me so sad to think of how much time I wasted trying to please someone who never thought anything I did was good enough.  Who constantly accused me for things I wasn't doing.  So much wasted time when life is so short... .   we deserve better... . 

[Loveofhislife]

Thank you, Take2 for your post this morning--I too lost my Dad whose relationship with me (I am told) is a large part of the reason I have remained vulnerable and attracted to people with

narcissistic traits. Despite a lot of self education and therapy, my dysthymia and inability to get over exbfBPD is making me reconsider my own road to recovery. It certainly feels like an addiction, and your post has made me seriously consider more of a 12 step program than ongoing cognitive therapy. I'm just ready to start feeling better, and I continue to struggle and obsess. Thank you.

[2014]

My best friend was diagnosed BPD. He was full off childhood shame to the point where he believed every person on the street hated him and thought he was disgusting, which made him very avoidant and paranoid. In the end he couldn't handle the shame anymore and hung himself a couple of weeks ago. This shame together with his addiction and impulsivity was the reason he got diagnosed BPD. He had no NPD traits at all. He was a very caring, sensitive and empathic person but with no need to show a "good" persona.

Very sad, sorry for your loss. Could you tell us a lil about the 'childhood shame' he felt. Was he in any way abused as a kid? What brought on the shame? Thanks.

[freedom33]

Sounds by your experiences that an apology is not uncommon and there are some strong NPD traits in mine. After every argument and provocation she 'd create should would try and avoid touching on the issue and pretend as if nothing happened. Even now after I broke up with her she 'd come back through a series of mediums e.g. whatsapp and say 'Hi, let's meet up, You are my baby etc etc... .' As if nothing happened. I 'd block her and she would try though another medium the same after a few days. She would want to get back in touch but she wouldn't dare to say anything about being sorry or wanting to talk about anything. She 'd just pretend all was good and would want to meet up to have fun. Or maybe she just didn't needed back bad enough to force herself to give me an apology? Who knows?  Having blocked her from everything has given back my sanity though

Despite not having offered an apology she is still trying to cause me problems and recently has contacted my ex partner whom she didn't know via Facebook to ask her/share with her a few things about me? My ex called me worried to ask me about this person before engaging with her and now she blocked her too. A friend's wive (whom she didn't knew either ?) bicker her as well after my xBPDgf started talking bad about me to her. A smear campaign. Is that common with BPDs or NPDs?

[Fluff]

My best friend was diagnosed BPD. He was full off childhood shame to the point where he believed every person on the street hated him and thought he was disgusting, which made him very avoidant and paranoid. In the end he couldn't handle the shame anymore and hung himself a couple of weeks ago. This shame together with his addiction and impulsivity was the reason he got diagnosed BPD. He had no NPD traits at all. He was a very caring, sensitive and empathic person but with no need to show a "good" persona.

Very sad, sorry for your loss. Could you tell us a lil about the 'childhood shame' he felt. Was he in any way abused as a kid? What brought on the shame? Thanks.

He never told me all the details and I didn't want to ask. My mother, who also helped take care of him when the social safety net wasn't there, knows more. What I know is he was the youngest of four brothers, his mother was an alcoholic adult child and his father was rarely at home. One event I know of is his mother was raging and stomped on is head. She used to have episodes where she would leave and then the children together with the father made her dinner, all the children had to beg her to come back home and then everybody had to apologized to her and make her feel welcome. Very dysfunctional. Ah, I remember how he was always howling in his sleep. So sad.

[2014]

My best friend was diagnosed BPD. He was full off childhood shame to the point where he believed every person on the street hated him and thought he was disgusting, which made him very avoidant and paranoid. In the end he couldn't handle the shame anymore and hung himself a couple of weeks ago. This shame together with his addiction and impulsivity was the reason he got diagnosed BPD. He had no NPD traits at all. He was a very caring, sensitive and empathic person but with no need to show a "good" persona.

Very sad, sorry for your loss. Could you tell us a lil about the 'childhood shame' he felt. Was he in any way abused as a kid? What brought on the shame? Thanks.

He never told me all the details and I didn't want to ask. My mother, who also helped take care of him when the social safety net wasn't there, knows more. What I know is he was the youngest of four brothers, his mother was an alcoholic adult child and his father was rarely at home. One event I know of is his mother was raging and stomped on is head. She used to have episodes where she would leave and then the children together with the father made her dinner, all the children had to beg her to come back home and then everybody had to apologized to her and make her feel welcome. Very dysfunctional. Ah, I remember how he was always howling in his sleep. So sad.

Thank you for sharing. Thats so sad, may he be at peace now. I was asking because my exBPDbf suffers tremendous shame as well. His mom was a codependent (he had to comfort her). His dad, a NPD, left the family she he was 3. His stepfather was a verbally abusive NPD. He was badly bullied as a kid. Traveling from city to city, from one international school to another.

He has a coke addiction and a sex/porn addiction on top. He is a very high functioning BPD btw.

[Fluff]

freedom33 >> I also really want to figure out the BPD vs npd in my ex but I don't think the apologies are the key. As the case with my dBPD friend who just couldn't face the mistakes out of shame/trauma. He didn't even remember most of his suicide attempts (in my home! ___hole!) He had to suppress it and move on (in his cycle).

From my reading empathy would be the thing to look for, but that confuses me so much as it seems to be close to mirroring and projecting. My ex helps people in need. She is surrounded by depressed and sometimes suicidal people that need her love. Seems kind of empathic, no? She works at a dog shelter, helping abused dogs trust people again by giving them love. She puts her head against theirs... and gives them love... .at least according to her daily FB pics. Is this true empathy? Feeling the dogs distress? Is it mirroring/projection as in she is actually giving her self love through the dogs?

[freedom33]

freedom33 >> I also really want to figure out the BPD vs npd in my ex but I don't think the apologies are the key. As the case with my dBPD friend who just couldn't face the mistakes out of shame/trauma. He didn't even remember most of his suicide attempts (in my home! ___hole!) He had to suppress it and move on (in his cycle).

From my reading empathy would be the thing to look for, but that confuses me so much as it seems to be close to mirroring and projecting. My ex helps people in need. She is surrounded by depressed and sometimes suicidal people that need her love. Seems kind of empathic, no? She works at a dog shelter, helping abused dogs trust people again by giving them love. She puts her head against theirs... and gives them love... .at least according to her daily FB pics. Is this true empathy? Feeling the dogs distress? Is it mirroring/projection as in she is actually giving her self love through the dogs?

I have read somewhere that a lot of sociopathic criminals and serial killers were engaged in animal torture (and also pyromania) when they were kids. So there is something to be said for people that love animals - A healthy sign. Mine would help homeless people occasionally, buying them food or offering them her umbrella if it was raining. I found that commendable. I normally help homeless by giving them money but there was something very thoughtful to the way she did what she did.

At the same time I also noticed that she 'd usually tell me about it. Nothing wrong with that but there was a sense that she wanted to prove that she is a good person - perhaps it is just me reading into this. I don't know. What I do know in terms of 'commendable things' that come with a shadow side to them, is that she was into the whole women's rights, human rights, free tibet thing etc. I liked this about her at the start but then when I noticed how she 'd come into all this with an attitude of righteous indignation and fanaticism I started getting worried. She 'd see women being wronged in most situations just because according to her they were women. We would read the papers and she 'd see a story of something happening to a person and it was all because she was a woman - if she was a man then she wouldn't have been treated unfairly. I couldn't see gender discrimination in many of theses cases. There was a sense of victimisation of women everywhere and also of misandry. Or she would blame the Chinese and label them as all being bad (because of tibet) etc. etc. Not healthy.

[Take2]

Thank you, Take2 for your post this morning--I too lost my Dad whose relationship with me (I am told) is a large part of the reason I have remained vulnerable and attracted to people with

narcissistic traits. Despite a lot of self education and therapy, my dysthymia and inability to get over exbfBPD is making me reconsider my own road to recovery. It certainly feels like an addiction, and your post has made me seriously consider more of a 12 step program than ongoing cognitive therapy. I'm just ready to start feeling better, and I continue to struggle and obsess. Thank you.

Hey Loveofhislife  ... .   I know exactly what you mean... .  it's SO hard.  That I have the ability to block out the abuse almost instantaneously when my ex is back in "nice" mode at work, truly makes me wonder what exactly is going on in my head.  I cut out all friends for so long and just over a year ago, when I was grieving over my dad and STILL going thru some extremely cruel behavior from the ex, I became friends with a male coworker because he was so nice to me.  He isn't in my office - in fact he lives 1500 miles away, plus he's married.  I thought I was safe to talk to someone (ie, a man) who is married and lives so far away.  Wrong.  The friendship ended up triggering the most intense reactions EVER with my ex.  And it turned out?  I began noticing that the friend/coworker was exhibiting MANY of the same characteristics of the ex.  Very deflating.   Anyway - I digress... .have you read Breaking Free of Trauma Bonds?  by Patrick Carnes?   I might have the title slightly off but if you Google it, it will come up. 

The addiction is intense.   I think if I never had to see him again (ie at work) it would make it so much easier.  Why not just find another job?  I have a very good job and it's incredibly flexible which is important to me as I have a 6 year old.  Although I will say, the p.a. at my doctor's office (who prescribes my antidepressant) is more blunt than the therapist.  She has flat out said to me, "You need to quit your job.  Quit right now.  Do whatever it takes to get this person OUT of your life."    Gee, seems so logical.

And I'm a pretty smart woman... .   so smart I have stayed in the web of a man who is so severely disordered that I actually told him the other day that when he kills me some day, all my friends will know it was him. 

Typing this all out just made me totally disgusted by the whole thing... .   

which is good, because I've been feeling pretty strong lately and then today had a moment of major missing him.  Disgust just knocked that feeling out of my head.

[Fluff]

My therapist reacted when I told him that; while in India I fell and hurt my knees really bad a couple of times, but she never took care of me, strangers did. It was quite bad and I had to go to the hospital and stuff, but she never "nursed" me in anyway, like I know I would had, and I'm far from as care taking as I wish I'd be. At the other hand she did take care of every street dog we met. Going through their fur looking for wounds, giving them food. Same thing later when we were having a long distance relationship. She would never be there for me, but if she felt I wasn't there enough for her she would play the what-about-"in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health"?-card. 

[freedom33]

My therapist reacted when I told him that; while in India I fell and hurt my knees really bad a couple of times, but she never took care of me, strangers did. It was quite bad and I had to go to the hospital and stuff, but she never "nursed" me in anyway, like I know I would had, and I'm far from as care taking as I wish I'd be. At the other hand she did take care of every street dog we met. Going through their fur looking for wounds, giving them food. Same thing later when we were having a long distance relationship. She would never be there for me, but if she felt I wasn't there enough for her she would play the what-about-"in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health"?-card. 

Now that I think of it dogs 1) can be controlled and 2) do offer something that you can't - unconditional love. Can't beat a dog in its own game. I was actually insisting that my xgf gets a dog for herself. I am sure she would have felt a lot lot better.