Should I stay or should I go?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

As the song says... .

Hello everybody. I am in a relationship with a man I suspect to be borderline for 2 years now and I am presently wondering seriously if this relationship is worth it.

About 6 months after we started to date, he started to have temper tantrum (hope this is the right expression) and after a few months, I understood that something was wrong with him, but it about 1 year later than I found a piece of answer with readings on BPD.

It's been only a month or 2 that I try to apply some pieces of advice read in books and it works sometimes, don't some other times. I am still a rookie in understanding BPD

I feel that I will not be strong enough to cope with this disorder. Never spoke about it with my boyfriend. He speaks about getting some help for so long and doesn't do it so I don't want to put too much hope in this.

I don't know if I should keep insisting about going to seek for help or should I give up ?

Thank you

[Isa_lala]

As the song says... .

Hello everybody. I am in a relationship with a man I suspect to be borderline for 2 years now and I am presently wondering seriously if this relationship is worth it.

About 6 months after we started to date, he started to have temper tantrum (hope this is the right expression) and after a few months, I understood that something was wrong with him, but it about 1 year later than I found a piece of answer with readings on BPD.

It's been only a month or 2 that I try to apply some pieces of advice read in books and it works sometimes, don't some other times. I am still a rookie in understanding BPD

I feel that I will not be strong enough to cope with this disorder. Never spoke about it with my boyfriend. He speaks about getting some help for so long and doesn't do it so I don't want to put too much hope in this.

I don't know if I should keep insisting about going to seek for help or should I give up ?

Thank you

[sweetheart]

Hello isa ,

Welcome to this forum, you probably already know you will find support and advice in abundance here. You will also have access to invaluable information and lessons that will also equip you to manage your life and yourself more effectively when dealing with aspects of BPD.

No one can tell you whether you should stay or leave but as you are posting on the Staying board it seems you will be staying for now.

Can you tell us a bit more about your bf 'temper tantrums' and what happens between you when they occur?

You mention not knowing whether or not to talk to your bf about the possibility of him having BPD. If your bf does have BPD or BPD traits this discussion is likely to be very difficult for him, he may feel put down or inferior in some way by the suggestion that there is something wrong with him. Maybe for now it is enough that you know that something is different and accessing this website will definitely help you sort through the impact this is having on your rs.

Posting on here and receiving support, taking your time to read through the lessons will help you build strength through insight and awareness of how BPD manifests itself within the context of a relationship.

Working on yourself, being kind to yourself, stepping away from the chaos that you may have already experienced will help you as an individual and also as a parent make informed choices about how you want to live your life.

[Isa_lala]

Thank you.

I thought I was on the board of making decision on either stay or leave... .

My bf gets very furious for some things that I find little. With the little knowledge I have of BPD I can tell it's when he feels not good at something or feels rejected or abandoned. He is verbally very aggressive with me using names I couldn't repeat here... .

My problem is that I accepted for too long such behaviours, without putting my limits and now, it is very difficult to make him understand that I won't accept that anymore .

I am strong but I really don't know if I am strong enough to cope with that. It will take me a lot of energy telling him my bounderies. He will feel treated as a kid and hates that. He will also feel rejected because not competent in behaviouring in a more proper manner.

When not lead by his emotions, he is very rational and has a great sens of analysis. He knows a lot about him. The problem is his intense emotions that take the control of him... .

[sweetheart]

Isa it is not necessary to discuss what your boundaries are with him. Just decide what you want them to be and go with them. Boundaries are about what you want or more often don't want.  You can find lots of info on boundaries in the lessons that will help you to stay focused.

[Indyan]

Hi Isa_lala, nice to see you here 

It's "Rik"

[Isa_lala]

Hi Indyan 

Sweetheart, I understand what you say. However, my problem is to determine what to do when my bounderies are not respected... .I do not want to accept any more bad words from him. So if he yells at me with those bad words, what can I do? I don't think I will be able to isolate myself in a room because I am sure he will not tolerate that and will force me to go out. Usually, I accept to go out from where I am because it's often at night when the kids are sleeping and I don't want them to see that.

I often can't leave the house for a little while because I don't want my son be alone with him. I really don't think he would hurt my son, but we see so many family drama in the news that I can't stop myself from thinking about it.

So I struggle with finding consequences if my bounderies are not respected... .

[Indyan]

Isa it is not necessary to discuss what your boundaries are with him. Just decide what you want them to be and go with them. Boundaries are about what you want or more often don't want.  You can find lots of info on boundaries in the lessons that will help you to stay focused.

I agree. I tried (in vain) to "discuss" mine (I wrote them down), that was pointless, he wouldn't even look at them.

Setting boundaries is about what YOU do WHEN he behaves in an unacceptable manner.

[Indyan]

Hi Indyan  

Sweetheart, I understand what you say. However, my problem is to determine what to do when my bounderies are not respected... .I do not want to accept any more bad words from him. So if he yells at me with those bad words, what can I do? I don't think I will be able to isolate myself in a room because I am sure he will not tolerate that and will force me to go out. Usually, I accept to go out from where I am because it's often at night when the kids are sleeping and I don't want them to see that.

I often can't leave the house for a little while because I don't want my son be alone with him. I really don't think he would hurt my son, but we see so many family drama in the news that I can't stop myself from thinking about it.

So I struggle with finding consequences if my bounderies are not respected... .

Maybe you can do what you would do if someone else visited you and lacked respect to you. I guess you would refuse them in your house again. Especially if it happened more than once.

I figured out that I needed to picture "someone else in his shoes" in order to decide on what to do if... .

What prevents from setting proper boundaries with them is the fear of losing them. And that's not sane. They end up blackmailing us into "let me do what I want or I'll leave you". They WILL leave ANYWAY. So, better to reinforce boundaries, as to protect your kid(s) and yourself.

[Isa_lala]

Indyan, now, I am not afraid of losing him. Respecting myself is more important than staying in a relationship that makes me feel miserable most of the time because my bounderies are not respected.

I really don't know what I can do when he does something unacceptable as using bad words or being verbally agressive. I tried to ask him to leave, but he didn't and I couldn't throw him out ... .call the police? could be very disturbing for the kids... .

[Indyan]

I really don't know what I can do when he does something unacceptable as using bad words or being verbally agressive. I tried to ask him to leave, but he didn't and I couldn't throw him out ... .call the police? could be very disturbing for the kids... .

But you have 2 separate houses! Even if you can't do anything at that moment, you can maybe act later. You may tell him you don't want such a behaviour in your house and not allow him back.

I've always thought that if only we'd had 2 houses here, things would have been a lot simpler.

But I know, it's complicated.

I've done lots of things in an attempt to keep him from doing intolerable things:

First insults: I kicked him out. He came back later, didn't do it again for 9 months.

Breaking things and showing rage in front of my daughter: I told him I was looking for another house and he said he was going to see a T. Then he really tried... .for some months.

But we can set a billion boundaries, they will not respect them as they are NOT capable of controlling themselves.

our boundaries are there for us to try and remember that BPD behaviour harms our kids (and ourselves too), and to do what's necessary to avoid it.

What triggers his bursts of anger?

And only call the police if he goes beyond the beyonds. If he threatens you, becomes physically violent, stuff like that... .I mean to protect yourself of an immediate danger.

[Isa_lala]

Anything can trigger his bursts of anger. His rage is sometimes weak, sometimes strong.

When he yells at me and becomes verbally aggressive it is often because he feels rejected or he feels that I am less present in the relationship (he has a 6th sense... .). His fear of being abandoned is so strong that he becomes unrational and becomes mean. He feels attacked so he "bites". This is the only way he knows to respond when he feels in danger.

[Indyan]

What does he think about therapy?

Has he considered it?

As T said in MC last Saturday, I had to realize I wasn't HIS therapist.

They don't feel "thankful" for all the patience, kindness and forgiveness... .that's what hurts most. You'll give love as if trying to pour water in the sand, it's just never enough.

[Isa_lala]

He was the first one to speak about seeking for help... .almost 2 years ago. But he is so afraid of suffering that he cannot make the first step. After I gave him an ultimatum back in February this year, he did 3 sessions with a psychologist but ended it up because it didn't see how it could help him. The psychologist was probably not the good one but he never wanted to see another one, saying that it was useless. Finally, this summer, after a huge burst of anger, he said he wanted to get some help but we are still at the point where nothing has been decided. I may be too easy on him and I may have to give him another ultimatum.

[Indyan]

It's hard for me to discuss this topic because the whole sht happened PRECISELY when I told him (at last) he had to see a T... .

The world collapsed. His world, and subsequently our world collapsed.

I haven't quite understood this, but it's as if he'd been running away from his deep-rooted problems all his life and suddenly was forced into facing them. His shell, his protections collapsed, he felt vulnerable, naked.

I guess, I don't know.

What's sure is that what sounds like "If you don't go to therapy, I'll leave" is dangerous.

It puts too much pressure on them, and you may get a violent reaction.

Maybe it works better to suggest MC (with a well-chosen therapist who also agrees to see each of you separately), that's what I did later... .God knows if it's not too late 

[Isa_lala]

My discussion should be put in the "stay or leave" board. I don.t know who to ask to.

[Isa_lala]

Thank you for having moved my topic.

As said, I am more in a "stay or leave" mood than in a "staying" one.

Why? Because I finally opened my eyes and realized that despite all the good things I live with my BF, it is not the kind of relationship I want.

-   My BF has such a low self-esteem that he cannot believe in my love for him.

-   He is too insecure and is jealous. He seems to feel abandoned when I am at work, when I want (once only since we date) to do something without him.

-   He is always afraid that I could fall in love with the first man I meet because he feels like he will never be up to me.

And the consequences are that I feel that I have always to justify everything which I don’t want anymore, that I have always to prove my love to him and it is so energy consuming, so tiring. It is like to fill an empty ocean with drops of water when there is a hole in the bottom of the ocean…

He could probably go better with an appropriate therapy and maybe some medication for his “roller coaster” moods. Will it happen? I doubt! He is a very old fashioned minded man: a man is supposed to be strong, competent and the rock of the family… See a T? That means that he is not good enough to take care of himself. Medication? That is for the weak people.

You see where I am now?

And I love him, I know that when he is not controlled by his intense emotions, he is wonderful and meets all my wishes. But I understood that HE only could change himself and it needs a strong commitment from him.

[Mutt]

He is a very old fashioned minded man: a man is supposed to be strong, competent and the rock of the family… See a T? That means that he is not good enough to take care of himself. Medication? That is for the weak people.

It sounds like he doesn't want to help himself and wants to be enabled and parented. Neither are for the weak. I can understand that there are alternative types of medicines etc.

If you ask, does he usually have a reason not to do something? I'm sensing you need / want much more in a r/s and you feel like he takes too much energy. You have a right to be happy and not feel guilt for someone that wants his insecurities / dysfunctions enabled.

[Isa_lala]

Mutt, he is too afraid of suffering during a therapy. Also, he is this kind of man who thinks that needing a therapist would mean that he is not good enough, not competent.

Taking medication, that's worse!

You are right, I want more from a relationship. We just spent almost 3 days in a row together and it was so nice, so easy, exactly what I want for 80-90% of the time. This paradise stopped abruptly last night when we were making love. He started to wonder why I was with him as (entirely false) I have been with soo many men... .and then, honey moon went to hell... .

We tried to discuss about that this morning, but this was not the time HE wanted to discuss it and feeling him to be dishonest, I was mad and couldn't have a quiet discussion.

I try to make him understand how I may be feeling when he says such things to me, but he doesn't want to listen. He said coldly that it s me who is too nervous for the last weeks and always anger for anything. That's kind of true but because of that, he doesn't want to take in account how I felt last night. He blames me of being too angry these weeks... .It makes me more angry... .

[Isa_lala]

I know that being too sensitive he may feel rejected and his fears may be worse. But I think that I passed the moment where I am still able of coping for everything i don't like in the relationship without showing my anger... .

[Mutt]

I understand the stigma with getting help and talking to people. I think that there's no shame in that as a man. It takes courage to seek help, strength.

He said coldly that it s me who is too nervous for the last weeks and always anger for anything. That's kind of true but because of that, he doesn't want to take in account how I felt last night. He blames me of being too angry these weeks... .It makes me more angry... .

He's projecting. You've identified you are having difficulties with accepting his short comings. He's really telling you that he can't meet you in the middle.

Can you be indifferent to things like projection and other BPD insecurities / defense mechanisms?

[Isa_lala]

Mutt, no I can't

It affects me a lot

However, I learned a lot recently about BPD and I understand better his behaviours/reactions. It make me feel a little bit more serene (not sure if it is the right word in English to express my thought )

I am a LITTLE bit less affected. But still not indifferent. I know that it is not the relationship I want.

But it is very difficult to make the decision of leaving him because they are so many things I like in him... .As it represents maybe only 60% of what we have together, it is not enough thought to imagine living with him forever if nothing changes... .

[Mutt]

Change comes from you. Change doesn't come from someone else.

[Isa_lala]

I know, Mutt.

especially with my boyfriend who can be so efficient when we speak about non emotional things and so non-efficient when it's getting emotional.

My head knows that the best thing to do is to end the relationship, and the message is slowly (but surely) going to my heart... .

when I will be ready to make the decision, the next dilemna will be how to do it... .

[Indyan]

Can you be indifferent to things like projection and other BPD insecurities / defense mechanisms?

That's a hard task!

Already not taking them personally... .but being totally INDIFFERENT, wow I wish I could

[Indyan]

especially with my boyfriend who can be so efficient when we speak about non emotional things and so non-efficient when it's getting emotional.

Yes, that's typical. My T says that lots of BPD have a very high IQ because they have "overdeveloped" their intellectual intelligence at the cost of their emotional intelligence (because they were not properly guided as kids to develop on an emotionnal level).

If you're into personnality types, a lot of BPDs are NTs (I'd think especially men)... .and the (over) kind people who really fall for them are NFs... .

My analysis anyway  

I have something else to say. You've been "fantasizing" about leaving him for weeks now and surely he must sense this. It could have a snowball effect, your feeling just feeding his own insecurities and agressiveness... .

In Randi Kreger's book, she says that us nons also tend to think in black and white terms sometimes. "Should I stay or should I go?" could be one of these B&W thoughts.

Why not figure out something in shades of grey, such as "I'll give it a real try, I'll use the tools here to change my reaction to his behaviour. I'll stop reinforcing his behaviour etc. I'll analyse the situation again in a month's time."

That's just a suggestion  

[Mutt]

I know, Mutt.

especially with my boyfriend who can be so efficient when we speak about non emotional things and so non-efficient when it's getting emotional.

My head knows that the best thing to do is to end the relationship, and the message is slowly (but surely) going to my heart... .

when I will be ready to make the decision, the next dilemna will be how to do it... .

I'm sorry I don't have advise. It's not an easy decision to make and it's alright to change your mind. My   goes out to you.

Can you be indifferent to things like projection and other BPD insecurities / defense mechanisms?

That's a hard task!

Already not taking them personally... .but being totally INDIFFERENT, wow I wish I could

I agree it's difficult. It helps to read and understand the behaviors and why a pwBPD do the confusing things that they do sometimes. As to de-personalize, and become indifferent. It's not to say that my exes actions don't catch me off guard from time to time. I'm human, I have feelings and not a machine  

As an example if she blames me or projects, I don't take it personal because it's not about me. She copes differently with feelings of anxiety, stress, guilt etc. If she lies (dissociates) or alters reality. I understand that she's doing it because her feelings are out of place, not necessarily because I did something that she thinks I did.

I trust my intuition and reality and I don't need to dig my heels in and fight back. My ex isn't always on the far side of the scale. My defensive demeanors when I didn't understand it was a mental illness were also triggering.

Is it personal? Or is it maladaptive coping skills? Not an easy task, no. Not impossible either. To get to the goal of indifference takes accepting that a loved is mentally ill, he / she has their own struggles and may not be able to meet you halfway, and learn what's behind the behaviors.

[Isa_lala]

As I said on this discussion (on on another), if it was my son who was BPD, I would support him and cope with everything. My BF? I am not sure. We aren't married, don't leave together, don't have kids together... .Why coping with this? Because the relationship is also bringing me some wonderful things? Isn't it a high price to pay?

I don't have the answers to my questions.

Indyan, I could see some grey zone and decide to add water to the wine but I really think I cannot. His rage outbursts are killing me. I cannot feel indifferent. My head knows that what he says when he is anger-filled,  is not true. But my heart is hurt. And more I hear such bad words about me, less I can't cope with it. My vase is slowly but surely getting full...

last thing, I don't even know if I would still have the energy, the strentgh to change my way of thinking, to work on feeling indifferent to what I see and what I hear... .even I wanted to do so... .isn't it too late? I don't know.

I really think that a relationship shoulb be more equally balanced. I don't really believe in a RS where only ONE person does all the efforts. My thought could be different if he wanted to commit on a therapy and to put effort in the RS

[Indyan]

I can see that you're reaching your saturation point... .

why not suggest something to him? To see each other less for example? Or a break in your r/s?

[Isa_lala]

I have something else to say. You've been "fantasizing" about leaving him for weeks now and surely he must sense this. It could have a snowball effect, your feeling just feeding his own insecurities and agressiveness... .

you are so right about this! he is feeling that I am struggling with something. He feels that I am not happy. And it tends to make things worse... .:'(

But I cannot pretend that everything is ok. I just cannot. And he has a 6th sense anyway... .

and yes, I am reaching my saturation point. But offer him to see each other less or take a break, that's not working. He will never accept that, we already had this discussion (general discussion about this)

in addition, seeing each other less often makes things worse. He gets so mad maybe because of the abandonment fear...

[Indyan]

He will never accept that, we already had this discussion (general discussion about this)

in addition, seeing each other less often makes things worse. He gets so mad maybe because of the abandonment fear...

But what do you want? I mean, independently of his acceptance/demands, and apart from the option "him changing his behaviour radically".

What do you feel like doing right now, with his current behaviour?

It sounds like you may need space to breathe, like is all over you. Give it a thought... .what makes you feel "lighter" when you think of it? Not seeing him? Seeing him only outside your home? Seeing him only at week-ends? Not seeing him until you feel yourself again?

Again, try to answer without fearing his reaction (FOG... .).