Do looks matter?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I ask because I hear that pwBPD's target anyone that can soothe their pain? My ex did not seem to care about looks in others, until me, she didn't care about any attractive celebrities and fully admitted that in the past she just didn't care what people looked like and didn't have a type at all. She said, and her friends said, that I was the first person that could match up to her lookswise, and she completely admitted to me that she would never normally go for someone who was conventionally good looking. But she was obsessed with what I looked like, it was literally the ONLY thing she seemed to care about, and the only thing she talked about, she endlessly compliment me on it, but never on anything about me, nothing about my character, my desires, my achievements, she didn't care. I understand that pwBPD are very superficial but I've also read and have experienced evidence for, that looks are not a defining factor in their partner, only a bonus. She said I was the first boyfriend shes actually fancied, and she has said that to her friends aswell as I've heard on the grapevine, so this ontop of everything else really did hook me. But I'm thinking maybe I was the first guy she was attracted to that actually put up with her behaviour, the first one that enabled her, if she found someone better looking who enabled her she would jump ship. I'm just trying to work it out because well into the devaluing stage, when I would be criticised on everything about my very being, the only thing she never devalued me on was looks. According to her we were meant to be because we looked so alike and looked so good together, again standard superficial BPD behaviour, but as I said I've heard looks are not important so I'm just trying to make sense of it. All the evidence suggests she wanted to be with me for only that reason and there is literally no evidence to suggest there was any other draw.

[bungenstein]

I ask because I hear that pwBPD's target anyone that can soothe their pain? My ex did not seem to care about looks in others, until me, she didn't care about any attractive celebrities and fully admitted that in the past she just didn't care what people looked like and didn't have a type at all. She said, and her friends said, that I was the first person that could match up to her lookswise, and she completely admitted to me that she would never normally go for someone who was conventionally good looking. But she was obsessed with what I looked like, it was literally the ONLY thing she seemed to care about, and the only thing she talked about, she endlessly compliment me on it, but never on anything about me, nothing about my character, my desires, my achievements, she didn't care. I understand that pwBPD are very superficial but I've also read and have experienced evidence for, that looks are not a defining factor in their partner, only a bonus. She said I was the first boyfriend shes actually fancied, and she has said that to her friends aswell as I've heard on the grapevine, so this ontop of everything else really did hook me. But I'm thinking maybe I was the first guy she was attracted to that actually put up with her behaviour, the first one that enabled her, if she found someone better looking who enabled her she would jump ship. I'm just trying to work it out because well into the devaluing stage, when I would be criticised on everything about my very being, the only thing she never devalued me on was looks. According to her we were meant to be because we looked so alike and looked so good together, again standard superficial BPD behaviour, but as I said I've heard looks are not important so I'm just trying to make sense of it. All the evidence suggests she wanted to be with me for only that reason and there is literally no evidence to suggest there was any other draw.

[BlackandBlue]

I believe there was another thread recently here about this topic and if I remember right most people said they think looks dont matter. In my case I don't think they did because some of her previous boyfriends and ex husband were either average or flat out disgusting looking.  However, she would constantly tell me how handsome I was... .it actually became annoying after awhile because she said it so often. I think she said it so often because she wanted me to reply with how beautiful she was... .she needed constant reassurance.  For as much as she liked the way I looked she was always fearful because she said I could have any girl I wanted and thought I would leave her... .her self esteem and self image was beyond low. It didn't matter how much i told her she was beautiful or how much i loved her it never would sink in. In the end she actually left me... .it was quite a blow. From what I hear she has a replacement but I have no clue what he looks like... .I don't want to know.

[Blimblam]

I think looks matter to them but secure attachment remains supreme.

I think their ideal is something like this. An secure attachment they don't think is the best looking with a good heart and cheat on him with guys better looking. Or have a good looking guy attachement and a few friend zoned guys as back ups.

[bungenstein]

But either way, no matter how handsome they think you are, or how perfect they think you look together, whoever you are, and whatever attributes you may have, you are still just an object to them, and they will never actually love and care for you as a person?

[fred6]

Mine never really complemented my looks. Actually, after a while I got the impression that she wasn't that attracted to me. Whenever I told her that she was pretty or beautiful she didn't like it. She had horrible self esteem. Most of her ex's that I've seen weren't all that attractive. But I'm a guy, so I can't really rate what other guys look like from a female point of view.

[Infern0]

No.

Mine told me "you are good looking,  but I'm not attracted to you,  I'm kind of messed up when it comes to attraction"

Well what I figured out was that she is "attracted" to narcissists,  sociopaths,  you know,  abusers.

So in my opinion at least looks don't matter or at least not in the same way.  She told me I was good looking and that she loved me and wanted to be with me forever and didn't want anyone else.

In the end I was replaced by a short,  fat,  hobbit looking guy with a brain that's been fried off meth use and malfunctioning equipment downstairs.  I'm not full of myself but I am better than bilbo baggins in every aspect but it didn't do anything to save my RS

At the end of the day bilbo is stupid,  a drunk,  doesn't think too much and is just "happy to have her" so he's a perfect enabler,  just seems to put up with everything.  I dunno if that's the attraction.

Well me and her are in the early stages of a recycle and bilbo is just sitting there taking it all,  the guy who a few weeks ago was the most abusive boyfriend ever and was so mean to her is now going out for dinner and a movie with her while bilbo just probably wonders what's going on and drinks himself into a stupor.

No sense to any of it. But to answer the question looks don't matter in the way they do to a normal person.

[Blimblam]

But either way, no matter how handsome they think you are, or how perfect they think you look together, whoever you are, and whatever attributes you may have, you are still just an object to them, and they will never actually love and care for you as a person?

Durring the idealization phase they fuse you into their identity and you love them and yourself through them. That love from you fuses into their identity as well. They love the feeling of the attachment and you through you.

[AG]

I am in now way shape or form God's gift to women. I am however very attractive and extremely fit to top if all off. I don't have genius intellect but I'm no dumb jock either.

I guage this from response I get from other women throughout my life. Under normal circumstances meaning when I don't feel like I am dead inside it is not very difficult for me to get dates rolling. I also was not into my ex at first as far as looks are concerned. I see all these people say they had ones that were so hot but mine wasn't hot. She was in no way shape or form ugly but just wasn't the cup of tea I usually would go for especially in the body department.  

She was beautiful to me but when I love someone they are always beautiful to me. I am by far the best looking boyfriend that my ex has ever had. In fact I was always getting these looks from her friends that I could not place as to what the heck they were about until after. I remember especially her sister looking at me as if she was scanning me at thanksgiving dinner. Once it was over with I could link back all of the looks like they all flashed in my mind all at once one after the other. Especially the thanksgiving dinner with her sister and family. Her sister was indeed scanning me. She was scanning for flaws as if to say how the freak did she get this guy there must be something wrong with him. Same looks from her friends as well. Let me tell you from my experience it makes it worse if you are really attractive compared to them or what they are used to. I work out really hard and have a nice body and she tried to rip me down about that and stated are you even eating I like big guys like the rock and now you are all shredded but smaller. In my mind I was like what the heck you cant be serious I've seen your past love interests and none of them are even remotely fit or attractive. Also I kept being accused of cheating. I tried joining salsa to dance with her and I was ripped down about that and called a cheater for trying to do something romanitc for her. Constant accusation after accusation. It does not matter how you look to them what I think matters is how close you are to them.

If you get close you are going to get burned and it doesnt matter if you look like smeagel from Lord of the rings or brad pitt from troy. Whatever it is that you value is where they will attack. I never talked about my looks for example. So she never attacked that plus I think she just couldn't. I prided myself on internal attributes like loyalty kindness and empathy ect ect. Those are the things she would rip down. I valued staying fit and that was attacked also. If you are an unnattractive person or insecure they will probably attack that weakness. These are the things I noticed from my experience. The attacks come regardless and they come exactly where they know it hurts.

Either way from my experience is you get close you will be a punching bag unless you go ghost on them to avoid any damage.

[bungenstein]

So basically, it doesn't matter who you are, everyone gets the royal treatment, and they are incapable of truly caring for someone, they only care what that person offers them.

[Deeno02]

Felt much the same as you all. Im retired Navy and now a white collar professional, but with tattoos, lots of them. I make great money,  but never felt good enough for her. Her ex, who finally left her after 15 years, made huge money and they ran in big circles, most of whom she hangs with and they all have big houses and big money. She was a stay at home mom. Anyway, we never socialized with her ritzy friends except for 1 xmas party and one gala. Never did couples things with her friends, at all. Just one more thing I felt I wasnt important in her life.

[Blimblam]

So basically, it doesn't matter who you are, everyone gets the royal treatment, and they are incapable of truly caring for someone, they only care what that person offers them.

Pretty much.

They adapt to the wants and needs of the attachment.

If you havnt already I highly recommend reading through all of member 2010 posts.

[Blimblam]

It's almost as if they want the kind of love a dog can give you, a perfect parent, and lovers on their honeymoon.

[irishmarmot]

The first words out of my expwBPD were you are extremely attractive!   The last words were you are bald and ugly.  I have learned not to believe a word that comes out of her mouth!

[Waifed]

PwBPD are human too. They are all different. Some go for looks, some money/status and others look to attach to anyone. They have preferences, but probably have to settle sometimes because of their illness. They are also probably more susceptible to dating much younger or older partners and even varying genders and ethnicities based on the origins of their BPD traits and the severity of their disorder. Some are probably aware that they are different and will "date down" so that they can have more control of the person.

[fred6]

Well me and her are in the early stages of a recycle and bilbo is just sitting there taking it all,  the guy who a few weeks ago was the most abusive boyfriend ever and was so mean to her is now going out for dinner and a movie with her while bilbo just probably wonders what's going on and drinks himself into a stupor.

You gonna recycle with her?

[Infern0]

Well me and her are in the early stages of a recycle and bilbo is just sitting there taking it all,  the guy who a few weeks ago was the most abusive boyfriend ever and was so mean to her is now going out for dinner and a movie with her while bilbo just probably wonders what's going on and drinks himself into a stupor.

You gonna recycle with her?

I dunno what I'm going to do mate,  I miss her and I want to try again but at the same time... .

I'm trying to stay as detached as possible,  have some fun and see what happens.  I realize there isn't much hope but you know how it is.

[Blimblam]

So basically, it doesn't matter who you are, everyone gets the royal treatment, and they are incapable of truly caring for someone, they only care what that person offers them.

Pretty much.

They adapt to the wants and needs of the attachment.

If you havnt already I highly recommend reading through all of member 2010 posts.

I want to expand on this because it is real more like sort of than "pretty much"

We often refer to them being in "fantasy land". The way they experience reality is much much different than the way we do and trying to understand it within the construct of reality just doesn't really work. If you have travelled to a different culture with a different language especially one with a different root of the origin of the language you may have come to the realization that the very nature if how they percieve reality is very different yet very similiar it is sort of like that.

[bungenstein]

So basically, it doesn't matter who you are, everyone gets the royal treatment, and they are incapable of truly caring for someone, they only care what that person offers them.

Pretty much.

They adapt to the wants and needs of the attachment.

If you havnt already I highly recommend reading through all of member 2010 posts.

I want to expand on this because it is real more like sort of than "pretty much"

We often refer to them being in "fantasy land". The way they experience reality is much much different than the way we do and trying to understand it within the construct of reality just doesn't really work. If you have travelled to a different culture with a different language especially one with a different root of the origin of the language you may have come to the realization that the very nature if how they percieve reality is very different yet very similiar it is sort of like that.

So its impossible to connect with someone who resides on Planet Zorb.

[Blimblam]

So basically, it doesn't matter who you are, everyone gets the royal treatment, and they are incapable of truly caring for someone, they only care what that person offers them.

Pretty much.

They adapt to the wants and needs of the attachment.

If you havnt already I highly recommend reading through all of member 2010 posts.

I want to expand on this because it is real more like sort of than "pretty much"

We often refer to them being in "fantasy land". The way they experience reality is much much different than the way we do and trying to understand it within the construct of reality just doesn't really work. If you have travelled to a different culture with a different language especially one with a different root of the origin of the language you may have come to the realization that the very nature if how they percieve reality is very different yet very similiar it is sort of like that.

So its impossible to connect with someone who resides on Planet Zorb.

You felt like you connected right?

[bungenstein]

I felt like she could not live without me and 'loved' me a ridiculous amount, until I recognised the abuse.

I did not feel deeply connected no, I only felt connected on a superficial level, the reasons for me being she was very attractive, great in bed, an amazing cook, worshipped me and did so much for me.

I didn't feel like she really knew me, I didn't feel like I really knew her, because she was constantly changing, incapable of having deep and meaningful conversations, incapable of understanding anything complex, she could only talk about shallow, simple things.

I had to explain to her that sex for me is all about forming a deeper connection with that person, and she admitted that it wasn't for her, she just did it to please me, she would just keep saying I'll do anything to make you happy.

I don't understand how anyone can feel a proper connection to these people, there is nothing to connect to, they are empty.

[Blimblam]

She connected to you.

You connected to yourself through her connection to you.

She exists on the other side of the mirror and you may have glimpsed at that being. You may have connected to that being to varying degrees but that being has major i mean major trust issues.

If you ever felt yourself in te relationship is la la land and felt at home and at peace their then you connected.  Conversely the more intense you will experience the devaluing.

[bungenstein]

So I connected to my mirrored self?

So I didn't really connect to her, they mirror people because they have no sense of self right? How can you connect to someone that has no self?

There was never peace in the relationship for more than a week.

She nearly blew up on the very day I met her!

[Blimblam]

The kind of mirroring a borderline is capable of is beyond mirroring. It is introjective identification of a very profound level. She litteraly became an extension of you.

There is the posibility of a deeper connection than that. You know what you felt.

[bungenstein]

The connection I felt was more like she was my daughter, someone I had to look after.

But the way I saw her change freaked me out, leave her alone with someone else and she's then mirroring them.

Sometimes I didn't know who she was at all, because I didn't recognise the person I was used to, which in retrospect was just me.

As the relationship goes on and you witness more and more scary behaviour, it really does a good job of disconnecting you.

I now find her terrifying.

[Blimblam]

She is terrified.

[bungenstein]

I know she is, I would be too if I was noone. What can they do?

[Blimblam]

She is on the other side of the mirror. Through the looking glass

[Blimblam]

Yeah man when that mirror finally breaks and you feel everything else that's there you tumble down the rabbit hole. It hurts.

[Infern0]

Do people on here think they leave some kind of psychic connection?

I always know when I'm going to hear from her and she often brings up things that were on my mind like she "knows" what I'm thinking.  It's weird.  I also get a horrible sick feeling sometimes and then she calls me like 5 minutes later in distress. 

[Blimblam]

Do people on here think they leave some kind of psychic connection?

I always know when I'm going to hear from her and she often brings up things that were on my mind like she "knows" what I'm thinking.  It's weird.  I also get a horrible sick feeling sometimes and then she calls me like 5 minutes later in distress. 

Inferno yes

Although I must admit I think my ex broke a barier in my mind and I am now schizotypAl while I was not before.

Inferno dig deep into projective identification and introjective identification. I seen it explained from a neuroscience perspective too.

Also in YouTube their is some Carl Jung - anima projection stuff there that is really interesting.

Think of psychic connection in terms of knowing someone very deeply and relating them to your internal archetype and your unconcious mind picking up on patterns.