Palimony #1

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Dear BPD family,

I thought my run-ins with BPDs were over... .but only just begun.

Essentially I had nowhere to live after relocating to a new city. My business was just robbed of all it's cash by a malignant narcissist and I was essentially homeless.

I moved here to a new city, Portland in hopes of starting afresh.

(I have 100+ posts on this board in relation to a past rs with a person w/ BPD and the resulting PTSD symptoms that ensued).

So a wrecked person... .I came to Portland.

1st room. Was with a polyamorous couple who wanted to use me as a sex toy. Woman had anti-psychotics, benzos, and pain meds in medicine cabinet... .1000s and 1000s of pills. Experienced her rage at the rejection and left.

2nd room. Was with a 50 year old nurse... .seemed nice... .turned out to be a raging alcoholic. Daughter diagnosed and medicated bipoloar disorder, other daughter undiagnosed BPD. Spoke like a small child... .she sounds like she was 7 years old. Raged on her mother and brought toxicity in to the house. I stood up for the mom, and was kicked out of the house essentially.

Park. Planned to stay in park for the night. Had a new job that pays very well, but not enough for own place. Don't want to get another room because of the psychos and ptsd being triggered.

Stayed with girl I met off dating site. At first she seemed nice... .said she was an empath and animal lover. Told me she lived with abusive ex boyfriend... .over time... .later learned it was her separated husband Red Flag... .anyways it was either spend 2k to stay in a motel, or go stay with her and get a place after a month or two.

I paid the separated husband to leave... .and took over his room. I gave her money for rent. I made sure to tell her this was temporary and that i was not replacing her husband... .etc.

She told me that she had PCOS and it was impossible for her to get pregnant (you know where this is going). One night we were having sex, and she held me down while I was about to climax. I immediately started panicking and said we needed emergency contraceptive. She told me she took the emergency contraceptive and it made her very sick. Told me she hadn't had periods for a while

She kept wanting to have sex with me, but I did not. I felt obligated. She turned me on, but something felt off about her.

Long story short. Now she's pregnant, wouldn't have an abortion, won't consider adoption... .and is emotionally blackmailing me, manipulating me, trying to extort me and trapping me.

She got a divorce 2 days ago.

It's clear to me that this was all planned on her part.

We went to a counselor together and the counselor suggested a sperm donor agreement, as she claims that she is unable to have children and that is why she has to keep the child.

She signed the agreement... .but says it won't hold up in court. And she continues to cause me problems.

I am at the end of my rope. I live in a nice place alone right now, and am seeing a counselor and family attorney tomorrow... .but I feel like I have been raped of my soul. I thought I was helping this woman, and she helping me... .but now I realize it was just a trap and that I've been taken advantage of in the worst way I could every imagine.

I have no real legal recourse. Essentially this woman just stole a child, my life force, and several hundred thousands of dollars for me... .and she will get away with it, because no court will support me... .I've done a lot of research.

I can't get full custody and I don't want to coparent because I know she will just make my life hell and I can't save a child from the psychological torture that will ensue.

I am going to have a quarter of my income taken away and given to this devious woman. Who will abuse this poor child, and there is nothing I can do about it. She tries to use the unborn child as a hostage and my fear of homelessness to extort me in to a rs, and when I say no to that... .money down the road.

i won't be able to save money for a home, retirement, get myself out of a bit of debt, enjoy myself, stay in this nice place. My quality of life is going to go way down... .and hers is going to go up... .she gets a baby so she can "fit in with her friends" "experience the joy of motherhood" and get empathy in her "retail job".

She says that she needs to know where I stand with her so she knows whether this is "family" or "business". She actually calls it "business".

She signed the sperm donor agreement, but now has signers remorse. I know she's going to come after me for every penny and she will manipulate the judge and child courts in to thinking she's the victim.

She was even married and living with her husband at the time... .but I think the fact that they were "separated" means she can take action against me.

I know it's my fault for trusting someone with  Red Flag s... .but this is the only situation I've heard of where a con-artist can get away with theft and deception and the victim is the one whose punished... .well the child as well.

Once again, there is no way I can get full custody or convince her to give up the child for adoption, because she will lose her bargaining chip... .her "business".

I am so sick. I just want to crawl in to a hole and die. This law needs to change. I am not a basketball player, or a celebrity... .i was someone looking for a place to live so I could get my own studio and recover from the PTSD that has been triggered recently... .

Panic attacks, nightmares, fight or flight... .I have no choice about the matter. This psycho stole my life force and she is going to make me pay while she mistreats the child and there is nothing I can do about it because she is a cunning manipulator, delusional, and probably excited at the fact that she will have a child that can't get away from her... .like her dad who hung himself in the closet, her abusive husband, and now me.

I made a mistake... .and I am sorry. But my life is so over in 6.5 months. My life is gutter status. I will have to move in to a poor neighborhood to fund the abuse of my child. I don't want to know this child, because she will use my love as a weapon to extort and terrorize me.

I hate myself for doing this. Why am I so naive? I've been cheated on by BPD over and over, conned by shady business partners, and I was so close to surviving and getting the life I wanted... .and now this parasite is about to suck the life and money out of me.

I am so stupid guys. I am such a fool. What a moral strangling... .i feel like Im being strangled by my morals. Like Im just doomed no matter what I do. Im tired of being a martyr, or an example of what not to do. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me, but I don't want my life to be a giant example of what not to do.

I try so hard to be a good person. I went to counseling for over a year. I tried not to be codependent. I try to be healthy selfish, but help others. I try to have a good attitude.

But this is the most tragic and awful situation I've ever encountered... .I just feel numb. I don't care about anything anymore.

I love humanity... .but I keep getting snaked... .and I wish I had more street smarts. I don't want to pay this woman to abuse this child. The governemnt will force me to. I want to find adoptive parents. She wants a little hostage... .and I gave it to her... .and it's my genes.

(well to be proved by dna test).

Anyways, I just have nothing else to say. I am so sick. I know I shouldn't have believed her and shouldn't have slept with her. I am so stupid.

Don't be like me. Save yourselves. My life is just over. And this poor child is going to be born in to a selfish hell and there's nothing I can do about it.

(this is coming from a person whose mother most likely has BPD/npd... .recovering codependent w/ PTSD... .and ruined entrepreneur)

The dream is officially dead.

Stoic

[stoic83]

Dear BPD family,

I thought my run-ins with BPDs were over... .but only just begun.

Essentially I had nowhere to live after relocating to a new city. My business was just robbed of all it's cash by a malignant narcissist and I was essentially homeless.

I moved here to a new city, Portland in hopes of starting afresh.

(I have 100+ posts on this board in relation to a past rs with a person w/ BPD and the resulting PTSD symptoms that ensued).

So a wrecked person... .I came to Portland.

1st room. Was with a polyamorous couple who wanted to use me as a sex toy. Woman had anti-psychotics, benzos, and pain meds in medicine cabinet... .1000s and 1000s of pills. Experienced her rage at the rejection and left.

2nd room. Was with a 50 year old nurse... .seemed nice... .turned out to be a raging alcoholic. Daughter diagnosed and medicated bipoloar disorder, other daughter undiagnosed BPD. Spoke like a small child... .she sounds like she was 7 years old. Raged on her mother and brought toxicity in to the house. I stood up for the mom, and was kicked out of the house essentially.

Park. Planned to stay in park for the night. Had a new job that pays very well, but not enough for own place. Don't want to get another room because of the psychos and ptsd being triggered.

Stayed with girl I met off dating site. At first she seemed nice... .said she was an empath and animal lover. Told me she lived with abusive ex boyfriend... .over time... .later learned it was her separated husband Red Flag... .anyways it was either spend 2k to stay in a motel, or go stay with her and get a place after a month or two.

I paid the separated husband to leave... .and took over his room. I gave her money for rent. I made sure to tell her this was temporary and that i was not replacing her husband... .etc.

She told me that she had PCOS and it was impossible for her to get pregnant (you know where this is going). One night we were having sex, and she held me down while I was about to climax. I immediately started panicking and said we needed emergency contraceptive. She told me she took the emergency contraceptive and it made her very sick. Told me she hadn't had periods for a while

She kept wanting to have sex with me, but I did not. I felt obligated. She turned me on, but something felt off about her.

Long story short. Now she's pregnant, wouldn't have an abortion, won't consider adoption... .and is emotionally blackmailing me, manipulating me, trying to extort me and trapping me.

She got a divorce 2 days ago.

It's clear to me that this was all planned on her part.

We went to a counselor together and the counselor suggested a sperm donor agreement, as she claims that she is unable to have children and that is why she has to keep the child.

She signed the agreement... .but says it won't hold up in court. And she continues to cause me problems.

I am at the end of my rope. I live in a nice place alone right now, and am seeing a counselor and family attorney tomorrow... .but I feel like I have been raped of my soul. I thought I was helping this woman, and she helping me... .but now I realize it was just a trap and that I've been taken advantage of in the worst way I could every imagine.

I have no real legal recourse. Essentially this woman just stole a child, my life force, and several hundred thousands of dollars for me... .and she will get away with it, because no court will support me... .I've done a lot of research.

I can't get full custody and I don't want to coparent because I know she will just make my life hell and I can't save a child from the psychological torture that will ensue.

I am going to have a quarter of my income taken away and given to this devious woman. Who will abuse this poor child, and there is nothing I can do about it. She tries to use the unborn child as a hostage and my fear of homelessness to extort me in to a rs, and when I say no to that... .money down the road.

i won't be able to save money for a home, retirement, get myself out of a bit of debt, enjoy myself, stay in this nice place. My quality of life is going to go way down... .and hers is going to go up... .she gets a baby so she can "fit in with her friends" "experience the joy of motherhood" and get empathy in her "retail job".

She says that she needs to know where I stand with her so she knows whether this is "family" or "business". She actually calls it "business".

She signed the sperm donor agreement, but now has signers remorse. I know she's going to come after me for every penny and she will manipulate the judge and child courts in to thinking she's the victim.

She was even married and living with her husband at the time... .but I think the fact that they were "separated" means she can take action against me.

I know it's my fault for trusting someone with  Red Flag s... .but this is the only situation I've heard of where a con-artist can get away with theft and deception and the victim is the one whose punished... .well the child as well.

Once again, there is no way I can get full custody or convince her to give up the child for adoption, because she will lose her bargaining chip... .her "business".

I am so sick. I just want to crawl in to a hole and die. This law needs to change. I am not a basketball player, or a celebrity... .i was someone looking for a place to live so I could get my own studio and recover from the PTSD that has been triggered recently... .

Panic attacks, nightmares, fight or flight... .I have no choice about the matter. This psycho stole my life force and she is going to make me pay while she mistreats the child and there is nothing I can do about it because she is a cunning manipulator, delusional, and probably excited at the fact that she will have a child that can't get away from her... .like her dad who hung himself in the closet, her abusive husband, and now me.

I made a mistake... .and I am sorry. But my life is so over in 6.5 months. My life is gutter status. I will have to move in to a poor neighborhood to fund the abuse of my child. I don't want to know this child, because she will use my love as a weapon to extort and terrorize me.

I hate myself for doing this. Why am I so naive? I've been cheated on by BPD over and over, conned by shady business partners, and I was so close to surviving and getting the life I wanted... .and now this parasite is about to suck the life and money out of me.

I am so stupid guys. I am such a fool. What a moral strangling... .i feel like Im being strangled by my morals. Like Im just doomed no matter what I do. Im tired of being a martyr, or an example of what not to do. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me, but I don't want my life to be a giant example of what not to do.

I try so hard to be a good person. I went to counseling for over a year. I tried not to be codependent. I try to be healthy selfish, but help others. I try to have a good attitude.

But this is the most tragic and awful situation I've ever encountered... .I just feel numb. I don't care about anything anymore.

I love humanity... .but I keep getting snaked... .and I wish I had more street smarts. I don't want to pay this woman to abuse this child. The governemnt will force me to. I want to find adoptive parents. She wants a little hostage... .and I gave it to her... .and it's my genes.

(well to be proved by dna test).

Anyways, I just have nothing else to say. I am so sick. I know I shouldn't have believed her and shouldn't have slept with her. I am so stupid.

Don't be like me. Save yourselves. My life is just over. And this poor child is going to be born in to a selfish hell and there's nothing I can do about it.

(this is coming from a person whose mother most likely has BPD/npd... .recovering codependent w/ PTSD... .and ruined entrepreneur)

The dream is officially dead.

Stoic

[momtara]

I am so sorry this happened to you and that you feel so trapped.  It is a difficult situation to be in.  It seems like when you got to Portland there were a lot of dysfunctional people there.  But there are lots of normal, good people in the world, too - many of whom have had to deal with BPD's and hard things and are just looking for someone kind.  It takes a while to find them, I know.

You mentioned your only solution - you don't want to coparent with this person.  It will drag you down.  So you may have to go somewhere else and start over.  I'm not sure what the 'sperm donor agreement' means - maybe that you don't have to pay for this child if you give up rights to that person?  Just make sure you are comfortable with that too.  You can still leave and refuse to have anything to do with the kid without giving up permanent legal rights, unless that's what you want.  It sounds like that's what you want, whih is fine.  The child may hae a better shot if he/she isn't being used to get your attention. 

You say your life is over in 6.5 months.  It is typical of these illness for the sufferer to catastrophize.  Yes, it is a tough situation.  However, you have - again - already said you don't want anything to do with her or the kid, and it may be healthier for you to get away.

So really the big problem is giving away some of your income, and you are nearly broke.  That is a tough thing.  But in the end, it's money, right?  You don't have a lot.  But consider this a new chance to make a start.  Maybe you can go to a new city, get involved with a program, get a job, and slowly rebuild. 

It's good you're going to an attorney.  Maybe see a T too.  Please please don't feel your life is over.  I noticed that you write very intelligently - many people don't - so obviously you have good education and good prospects to have a better life.  You've met some sucky people.  We all have.  Now you can chart a new course.

[ForeverDad]

First, take some deep breaths.

A DNA test will eventually prove or disprove whether you're the parent.  There's a real possibility her husband is the actual father, so you may not end up 'stuck' after all.  Once the baby is born then you need to determine scientifically whether you are the father - or not.

The flip side is that you can try to make the most of a bad situation with her.  If you have a child, no court will block you from having parenting time.  Well, unless you fall apart, crash and burn and she can get the professionals and court to view you as perpetrating child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.

Yes, you have an uphill struggle but you are not beaten down and hopeless unless you choose to live that way.  Your choice... .proactively take charge of your life, such as it is, or choose abdication and victimhood.

Please see this as Tough Love.  Life is what you make of it, not what it does to you.

[momtara]

Yes, a good point, it might not be your kid.  It was only a couple of times, right?  It would have had to be on the two days she was ovulating.  It might be her husband's kid.

You are worrying that she can come after you for every penny, and what a judge will think.  Well, you never know.  This may all work out just fine. 

Ideally, what would you want to happen?  Do you really want anything to do with the kid?

You say you are in a nice place now.  Maybe you can stay and this will all blow over.

A lot can happen in 6 months, too.  So keep your eyes open.  Also, maybe have a tape recorder on whenever you are talking to her in case she says something really scary or tries to make some false claim against you.  If she is that erratic, it's an idea.

[Swiggle]

It may not seem like you have options but you do. You can choose to let this ruin you or do as others have said and pick yourself up and take charge. I was thinking the same thing as others, you cannot be sure if this is even your child. If I were you I would cut all contact with this woman until the baby is born and a paternity test is done.

You have 6.5 months until that time, go NC and use that time to get yourself to a better place mentally/emotionally, seek T now and continue to go, get your money situation in order as best you can before the baby arrives and lastly decide what involvment you want with the child should it turn out to be yours. If you decide to be involved and be a father to the child then think of a plan now , it won't always go smoothly but it will be better than throwing up your hands now and trying to deal with it in the heat of the moment. You have options, some of them suck some don't, don't just focus on the ones that suck.

[Pou]

stoic83, your life is not over.  It may not be going as you thought it was supposed to... .but we all make our choices and not knowing what we were getting into often ... .the truth of the matter is that when it looks abysmal, if you just keep an open mind, there are always that glass of full that you can focus on.  Being a dad myself, I know that you may not want the child that is arriving ... .but be patient and see how your heart experiences his/her arrival and you may just reclaim your life force back when experience that.  This is just one of the things that your mindset can turn around.  Many things can happen every day and many things can turn your life around... .so be patient, establish boundaries with the woman who you are dealing with right now.  Take it slow and focus on your survival day to day and don't think beyond tomorrow.  If you start to plan all the things out in one day, it is simply too much to handle for anyone.  Everyday is a gift, no matter how bad of situation that we are in... .  best wishes to you and hope things get better every day for you.

[momtara]

anyway, she did have sex with you while she was married.  are you SURE she was separated?  you may be making the same mistake I often do with my ex - even though you know he/she lies a lot, you still believe certain lies.  she could have made that up.  in any case, doesn't look too good for her to be doing that while still married.

[stoic83]

You guys... .

I am so thankful for your support. There is a chance the child is not mine, because she is a deceptive person. However... .she had an app on her phone and she pinned me down during sex... .which was a turn on at the time... .but afterwards I just wanted to cry and was panicking.

I completely shut down emotionally... .I felt like a zombie. The whole point of moving to Portland was to start fresh after the man stole over 12k from a company I started... .poured my blood sweat and tears in to... .and I was evicted.

I think I have learned helplessness... .from growing up in a psychologically abusive household. I asked for help at work and from family... .but it was too subtle. I stayed at her home because I had no where else to go, and just like my exwBPD she seemed so caring and sweet initially.

I fell in to her trap. I can't reason with her at all.

I just don't know how many more traumas i can handle. I was emotionally blackmailed by  my exwBPD over and over again... .threatened with suicide, false accusations, smear campaigns, homicide.

I have so much empathy for the mentally ill... .but I don't want to be in this situation anymore. I am reaching for acceptance... .but now when anyone tries to come up to me on the street... .especially a woman, my chest tightens up and I become so scared.

I think it would be better for a child to be raised by a mentally unfit mother alone then to experience the dichotomy of being split between two people. I saw what it did to my friend, and he was an alcoholic and suicidal. He hated his mom and loved his dad.

His dad always lived in crappy places because he had to pay his mom... .and his mom brought weird men home and was completely negligent and irrational.

His dad paid for his mom's life... .the dad seemed sad all of the time. he did the best he could, but when a woman like that has majority custody and child support it creates a terrible situation for the child... .she's being enabled to mistreat the child... .she gets a second income.

I don't want to be forced by the courts to enable the mistreatment of a child. I want this child to be adopted in to a loving and stable home.

If it wasn't for her... .I would take full custody.

I can't coparent with her. She is going to psychologically harm this child, and there is nothing I can do about it.

I will focus on myself... .and wait to see what happens.

She signed the sperm donor agreement, and she told my counselor she lied to me about being married and that I did not consent to fathering a child with her.

I will ask the attorney what to do, but I'm worried he is going to create more paranoia in me because it's financially lucrative of him to make me fearful.

Luckily, I'm seeing the T this afternoon. So she can help me gain clarity.

I am so worried that continuing to experience PTSD is going to damage my brain and my ability to have  healthy relationships.

Thanks for you advice and help.

I try to be a person of high integrity and I just want what's right for everybody.

I am trying to rebuild my life right now... .and I don't want kids.

Also, my fear is that if I become emotionally attached she will use my love as a weapon... .to try to hurt me.

There really is no winning with this type of personality... .I've tried everything with my ex... .I think this woman has more going for her, but even if she is HFBPD, or ASPD... .I almost feel that's worse, because she can fool everybody. She fooled me... .and I told myself, never again.

Thank you all so much. I care about humanity and it's really sad that we live in a system that enables people to use children as weapons, profit centers, and objects for personal gratification.

I view having a child as charity... .like you are in a good position in life, and ready to pass it on to someone new. I am not in that position.

I have a lot of healing and growth to do, and I need to be very careful in the woman I choose to start a family with due to a history of severely psychologically abusive women including my mother, my sister, and ex girlfriends.

Thanks again.

Stoic

Stoic

[ForeverDad]

Do an internet search on the topic of married women having affairs... .  It does seem each state has its own set of laws and case law, so you need experienced local family law attorneys to advice you of the risks, the legalities, your rights and your legal rights as a potential father.

Here's an example from Michigan... .

What are the Rights of a Biological Father if the Mother is Married to Another Man?

This question is answered differently under Michigan law than it is under the laws of States that have enacted the Uniform Parentage Act (UPA, and States that have some judicially created exception like the ones in the UPA. In Michigan the Paternity Act and decisions of the court of Appeals and the Michigan Supreme Court deny standing to all biological fathers (not husbands) when a child is conceived or born during a marriage.

Consider the most recent Michigan case, decided February 16, 2005 (Numerick v Krull). The biological father's rights were effectively destroyed when Mom wed someone else after she and dad separated but before the child was born. If this is a sham marriage used to cut off Dad's rights, what happens when or if Mom divorces this husband? In this day and age people often move and lose touch. Bio Dad may never know if Mom moves to a state where she can divorce Dad and he can disestablish paternity. Bio Dad may never have the opportunity to parent or co-parent his child.

While it's true that these cases result from messy lives, are family lawyers supposed to turn away and ignore what might be in the best interests of a child to avoid getting our hands dirty? I don't think so.

What the UPA does with respect to children born or conceived during a marriage is really no different from the analysis we do under the Adoption Code where efforts are made to terminate a dad's parental rights so the child may be adopted. There we look at the relationship of the father to the child. Has the dad formed a substantial parent-child relationship with the child and has he provided regular and substantial support for the child?

The importance of allowing biological fathers to have standing arises from recent efforts in Michigan to enact legislation that would deal with the issue of "paternity fraud." The proposed legislation would allow a male to disestablish paternity and escape financial responsibility for a child or children born during his marriage to his wife. If we amend the Act in this piecemeal manner, then what happens to the child(ren)? They may be left without financial support and paternal guidance, often from the only father they have known.

If Husband has known that the child was not his for an extended period of time (the UPA sets a limit of 2 years) and he has not challenged it within the 2-year period, then he would not be allowed to deny paternity. It's one thing to deprive a putative father the right to establish his paternity and quite another to then turn around and deny the child the father he/she has been raised by.

Moreover, what is so different about a child having a relationship with her father AND her step-father - with alternate weekends and holidays and summer parenting, in a "normal" family (at least 50% of Michigan children live in such a family) - and a child having the same kind of relationship with a biological father?

... .

Some states default to viewing the husband as the legal father, especially if the husband doesn't contest it in a timely manner.  However, a factor can be that if the biological father has a meaningful relationship with the child then his rights might be recognized.  It can get very complicated, so do see a few experienced family law attorneys in your state so you can determine with reasonable confidence what your options are should the baby be your biological child.

I'm thinking that if you were able to pay off the husband for him to leave then it's possible they were complicit together in conning you out of money back then and perhaps again if you can be convinced the baby is yours when it isn't or might not be.  Clearly she is unstable and will be an unstable mother, but whether there was design to it, who knows?  It may not matter now which it was, except to keep your eyes wide open and be legally informed.

[stoic83]

Do an internet search on the topic of married women having affairs... .  It does seem each state has its own set of laws and case law, so you need experienced local family law attorneys to advice you of the risks, the legalities, your rights and your legal rights as a potential father.

Here's an example from Michigan... .

What are the Rights of a Biological Father if the Mother is Married to Another Man?

This question is answered differently under Michigan law than it is under the laws of States that have enacted the Uniform Parentage Act (UPA, and States that have some judicially created exception like the ones in the UPA. In Michigan the Paternity Act and decisions of the court of Appeals and the Michigan Supreme Court deny standing to all biological fathers (not husbands) when a child is conceived or born during a marriage.

Consider the most recent Michigan case, decided February 16, 2005 (Numerick v Krull). The biological father's rights were effectively destroyed when Mom wed someone else after she and dad separated but before the child was born. If this is a sham marriage used to cut off Dad's rights, what happens when or if Mom divorces this husband? In this day and age people often move and lose touch. Bio Dad may never know if Mom moves to a state where she can divorce Dad and he can disestablish paternity. Bio Dad may never have the opportunity to parent or co-parent his child.

While it's true that these cases result from messy lives, are family lawyers supposed to turn away and ignore what might be in the best interests of a child to avoid getting our hands dirty? I don't think so.

What the UPA does with respect to children born or conceived during a marriage is really no different from the analysis we do under the Adoption Code where efforts are made to terminate a dad's parental rights so the child may be adopted. There we look at the relationship of the father to the child. Has the dad formed a substantial parent-child relationship with the child and has he provided regular and substantial support for the child?

The importance of allowing biological fathers to have standing arises from recent efforts in Michigan to enact legislation that would deal with the issue of "paternity fraud." The proposed legislation would allow a male to disestablish paternity and escape financial responsibility for a child or children born during his marriage to his wife. If we amend the Act in this piecemeal manner, then what happens to the child(ren)? They may be left without financial support and paternal guidance, often from the only father they have known.

If Husband has known that the child was not his for an extended period of time (the UPA sets a limit of 2 years) and he has not challenged it within the 2-year period, then he would not be allowed to deny paternity. It's one thing to deprive a putative father the right to establish his paternity and quite another to then turn around and deny the child the father he/she has been raised by.

Moreover, what is so different about a child having a relationship with her father AND her step-father - with alternate weekends and holidays and summer parenting, in a "normal" family (at least 50% of Michigan children live in such a family) - and a child having the same kind of relationship with a biological father?

... .

Some states default to viewing the husband as the legal father, especially if the husband doesn't contest it in a timely manner.  However, a factor can be that if the biological father has a meaningful relationship with the child then his rights might be recognized.  It can get very complicated, so do see a few experienced family law attorneys in your state so you can determine with reasonable confidence what your options are should the baby be your biological child.

I'm thinking that if you were able to pay off the husband for him to leave then it's possible they were complicit together in conning you out of money back then and perhaps again if you can be convinced the baby is yours when it isn't or might not be.  Clearly she is unstable and will be an unstable mother, but whether there was design to it, who knows?  It may not matter now which it was, except to keep your eyes wide open and be legally informed.

I saw an attorney who said that the husband will be assumed the father but can get out of it with paternity tests at which point she will be able to go after me for child support.

He also said that the courts will view me as somebody with deep pockets... .and that she will try to get the maximum. That an infant needs day care so she can work and that I will probably be forking out over 1000 dollars a month.

I just survived homelessness after my company was robbed of all of it's money by a malignant narcissist.

The lawyer says "it's bad luck. bad karma".

[momtara]

Hope the therapist helps.

It doesn't have to end up like it did with your one friend.  I do think being involved in the child's life may be too much trauma for you right now.  Instead of suffering for six months, if you are able to set boundaries, than do it if you have to.  No one said you had to be involved.  If you are worried about the kid, maybe you can preserve some rights but not be involved for a while.  It's just too much for you to handle, it seems.

That said, what you're going through doesn't have to be the end of the world.

Also, this woman may be a better mom than you think - you never know!

[Pou]

stoic, I think all Nons have some self reflection to do.  I reviewed my past and I think I had tendency to be attracted to people who PDs …. so I am learning how to associate that "attraction" with "negative experiences" as I am going through right now.  Hopefully, if my NPDw gets better, I will survive.  Otherwise, I at least know how to stay away from toxic people with PDs.  Get away from as many as I can.  I see your experiences seem to keep having you getting into trouble with people who are dysfunctional.  But those are great learning experiences, I think if you can sort out your experiences and learn from them … you will be a much better person at the end of the day.  I am not an attorney, but it may be worth it try to get full custody of the child if you think that would make your life easier.  I think the toughest thing for you going forward would be setting boundary with her with your future child in the picture.  I dunno … perhaps if you have such a fear about her PD, you can present it as an abusive relationship and maybe put a retrain order and keep a healthy distance?  I think many who decide to stay with PDs are experiencing what you are going through… the smear campaign is definitely part of the deal and that can even escalate to accusations that could have you end up in jail.  So be careful and keep your distance, to me I come to accept it and I do not worry about things that I can not control… easy said then done…. but I am doing it and there are moments that I do feel completely helpless and wonder that what did I do to deserve this.  Then again, what did any nons here do to deserve this?  so when I know I am not alone, it allows me to put everything in perspective and deal with it one day at the time.  Be good to yourself and not to blame yourself for the past.  Look forward only and if we could only be perfect in pick and choosing relationships, everyone would have live happily there after … so we are not alone.  Hang in there and I hope your PTSD gets more manageable … it is definitely tough with all the drama going on. 

[momtara]

If you're that poor, then gather the evidence to present.  It will be ok.

[stoic83]

Dear bpdfamily,

I don't entirely know how to handle this situation. I met with her last night and she just still wants to be with me. The thing is I can't afford the 1k+ month the state would charge me. The income discrepancy is too great. It seems like being on good terms with her is the best way to go... .but it is hard knowing that she intentionally deceived me, and took advantage of my heart.

I told her I would try to focus on her happiness of being pregnant and not on my anger.

I hope she realizes her mistakes. She says that going to the courts isn't an option for her because no matter what she will always care about me; but, I don't trust her.

I slept with her last night. I felt it was the wrong thing to do but I did it anyways. I don't even know what I am doing anymore. I am trying to rationalize this and it just isn't working.

It's becoming clear she doesn't have a lot of integrity... .I don't know what to do, but it's just not right... .any of it.

I know I shouldn't have slept with her... .some part of me wants some control over the situation. My T says she thinks that my having a romantic RS deludes me in to thinking that I have some control over this situation.

I just feel trapped. I can't afford the child support. It won't allow me to save any money for my own well-being and stability.

She has tunnel vision and she is just zeroed in on me.

What can I do? I know that what I'm doing is wrong and that it shows weak boundaries. I just can't afford the child support and so maybe if I just give her little tastes of me... .it will be enough to stop her from going that route.

I can't carry on like this for the rest of my life. I just don't want to be a prisoner to another person either physically or financially.

I am trying to take a higher path. That despite her sick behaviors, that I care about her. In fact I care about all people with mental illness. That doesn't mean I want to be a martyr.

Please don't shame me... .I just don't want this to ruin my life. I want choices over my money, freedom, and who I am in a relationship with.

What can I do?

Stoic

[momtara]

We have all done things like this.  It takes a long time to set those boundaries.  I am still working on it.  Many of us are.  But thinking that if you just do this or that, it will protect you in the long run, it may not work.  You will cause problems and end up paying child support anyway (if that's what she wants.)  I do this kind of thing a lot - think I can control the situation a bit by saying this or that to exH, and yes, I'll admit, it DOES work to a point.  It keeps him calm, keeps him from being too angry.  So yes, for you it probably works to a point too.  But if you think it will keep her from asking for child support 6 months or a year from now, I don't know, it seems like you're walking on eggshells and you could sleep with her for 6 months, not be there one night when she wants you there, and then she'd get angry anyway.  Not sure it's worth it.  It's a mental illness and won't always follow rhyme or reason.  No one will shame you for sleeping with her.  If you still have feelings for her and can't help it, well, it's hard to overcome that.  Be careful - you know she is deceptive.  For all you know, she had a miscarriage and is trying to get pregnant again!  (Don't worry, that seems unlikely and her body would be recovering now anyway.  But just saying.)  You can control the situation a little bit, but not completely.  :)id she already sign something saying she won't come after you for child support?  

You are stuck on this $1,000 a month figure.  If you will never be able to be stable because of that, maybe the courts would see it that way too.  Also, courts try to encourage couples to decide this in mediation rather than court.  Maybe you can get off with a few hundred.  Or maybe nothing.  Try not to worry - it's money.  

[ForeverDad]

I do this kind of thing a lot - think I can control the situation a bit by saying this or that to exH, and yes, I'll admit, it DOES work to a point.  It keeps him calm, keeps him from being too angry.  So yes, for you it probably works to a point too.  But if you think it will keep her from asking for child support 6 months or a year from now, I don't know, it seems like you're walking on eggshells and you could sleep with her for 6 months, not be there one night when she wants you there, and then she'd get angry anyway.  Not sure it's worth it.  It's a mental illness and won't always follow rhyme or reason.  No one will shame you for sleeping with her.  If you still have feelings for her and can't help it, well, it's hard to overcome that.  Be careful - you know she is deceptive.  For all you know, she had a miscarriage and is trying to get pregnant again!  (Don't worry, that seems unlikely and her body would be recovering now anyway.  But just saying.)  You can control the situation a little bit, but not completely.  Did she already sign something saying she won't come after you for child support?

Momtara has a valid points.

• You can't control the situation, at most you may moderate it for a while but for how long is unknown.  Are you going to try to mollify her for the next 18.5 years?



• What if... .she was never pregnant or even lost the baby?  She could very well be trying to get pregnant again.



• What if... .you stay with her to 'manage' her and she senses you might be preparing to leave, what's to stop her from conning you into unprotected sex again and making even more babies?



• Even if she's not trying to get pregnant, people with BPD are extremely Needy.  Their Neediness makes them clingy but getting close also feeds their fears of abandonment and triggers the wild swings of emotions and push/pull - for example, one book written by a recovered pwBPD is titled "I Hate You, Done Leave Me!"

She is still married, isn't she?  Is she going to stay married or divorce?  Realistically, she's an adult, you can't make her do (or not do) anything.  And what's the story with her husband?  (Is he her legal husband or did he just claim to be?)  Is he a co-conspirator, an enabler, a past target simmering on the back burner for when she wants him back, or what?

Child support - she may not be legally required to comply with any paper promises to not seek child support.  Maybe the Sperm Donor paperwork is binding but it sounds like the lawyer said it really isn't binding.  It may even be inapplicable since SD may imply or require no sexual contact, I just don't know.  In addition, if she goes on welfare, medicaid or other assistance then the state may come after you as the father to get reimbursement of some of their aid costs.

[livednlearned]

Do you have proof she's pregnant?

If she has integrity issues, wouldn't you want to fact check that this is true?

You wouldn't be the first guy to be bamboozled into thinking you're the dad.

[stoic83]

Yes I have proof she's pregnant. I saw the ultrasound.

No I am not 100% sure it is mine... .but she sure seems like she thinks it is.

Honestly, I am pretty sure it is... .because she pinned me down and wouldn't let me move during a period of time and she has an app on her phone that told her cycles.

She told me she had PCOS and wasn't fertile. She seemed like a nice person. Had 2 cats and dogs... .told me she was an "empath".

Yes it's possible that her husband/ex-husband is a co-conspirator. My dad wants me to go to the police department and talk to the "criminal plot" department, but I don't think that will help my situation.

Honestly... .it's money... .and the fact that I don't get to choose who I have children with... .and that I can't afford it.

I was about to work on a project to recover my company... .I just don't care anymore.

This is such a bummer. I can't enjoy life anymore. The thought of having to care for a small child right now really bothers me. I don't want to be a father right now and I don't want to pay this woman over 1k a month for nothing. The fact that I have had my life stolen away from me sickens me.

I want to enjoy life... .not sacrifice for a baby... .who knows what she's going to do when it's born?  She's unpredictable. She didn't care what I wanted for my life. I'm just a ___ing paying sperm bank.

Im not sure if I even want to live anymore. I mean she said her single mom went to school off of SI benefits from her father's suicide. Maybe the same thing happened to him?

I don't know... .anyways I'm an idiot. This must be karma. I'm so stupid to have trusted her. I hardly knew her... .and according to society I deserve a 500k fine and forced contact with a lunatic and her sure to be lunatic offspring for the next 2 decades. When I'm done I will be 50 years old... .a senior citizen practically. I'm sure they will both hate me as I fund their existence... .working tirelessly for their benefit while I live in a crappy place and just go to work/sleep.

What a ___ life and a ___ society. If I were in nature there'd be nobody to force me to have parasites. Maybe I should just move to the jungle. A lion would never stand for this bull___.

[momtara]

"and she has an app on her phone that told her cycles."

1.  She told you she couldn't get pregnant, and yet, she was charting her cycles with an APP.  And yet, you believe her.  People with PD's are VERY convincing.  :)on't be so sure of anyting she says.

2.  I know you think you are facing insurmountable odds.  Now you say nothing feels like it matters.  You sound depressed.  However, there are many worse things - look on the bright side.  You didn't just lose a family member.  You didn't lose a limb.  You can still do so much.  It probably won't be as bad as you think... .it doesn't have to be.  This is a tough time for you because it's all new.  It will get better once you understand the path.

[livednlearned]

stoic83,

You sound like you're in shock. If you have PTSD, it's probably hard to ground yourself, so you're drawn to catastrophizing and feeling overwhelmed and beaten down. The majority of the people here have felt the same way, and most of us have kids, so we know exactly what it is you fear -- we live it.

But your biggest foe right now isn't an unborn child and $1000/month child support payments. It's you. A man who starts his own business is resourceful. Something in your radar is broken when it comes to people with PDs, and you're seeing a therapist to help you work through this. That takes courage and strength. You have everything you need to heal and pull yourself together and overcome this. But you are writing the final chapter before you've developed the plot and the characters. Catastrophizing like that is a bigger problem than the one you're fixating on.

There are so many unknowns to your situation and millions of variables you can't predict. You are fixating on the worst aspects, which might be part of your PTSD. One thing missing from your projections, and one that you can't even begin to imagine, is how you might feel when you see and hold your child. The battle to raise a healthy child in spite of my disordered ex is one of the most powerful things that has ever happened to me. It's entirely one hundred percent driven by love, and I have no idea where it comes from, except that it's not negotiable. It wasn't a choice I made. It just happened. You can't connect to that right now because you haven't experienced it yet. Maybe it won't happen, maybe it will. Maybe it won't happen right away, and instead comes gradually.

A lot of us here have, for one reason or another, arrived where we are because something was emotionally not whole. When you go through the healing process with your eyes wide open and committed to it despite the deep, raw emotions pooling around inside, you become whole. You just do. I could never do that without having a child -- I'm too stubborn, too controlled, too masterful with my coping mechanisms to do the really hard work. I needed to love someone like I do my son to learn what I needed to learn, and I needed a really challenging situation so I could crack through the egoic garbage and heal some leftover stuff from childhood. Maybe the same will happen for you, and you'll find strength inside you didn't know you had because you love someone unconditionally. If you can do that for someone else, you can learn how to do that for yourself. You become motivated to raise a healthy child and that means figuring out what it means to be emotionally healthy. Hardest thing I've ever done, and the most meaningful and rewarding.

You can choose to let this be your greatest lesson and learn what it has to teach, not just morally, but in every other way. You went from one PD to another, so something wasn't connecting for you in your healing. That's how it works. First, you get a tap. Then you get a punch to the shoulder. Then you get a body slam. Then the grenade next to your foot goes off. Then a house drops on your head. At some point, you sit up and pay attention and stop running away. This might be that moment for you.

The irony of all this, at least for me, is that my personal life was at an all-time low and my career, almost without any input from me, took off in a way I could never have predicted. You need to focus on right now, this moment, this chapter. Gather facts, talk to a lawyer ($50 for 30 minutes in some states), get a paternity test, keep posting here, talk to your therapist, and start drawing on the strength and resourcefulness inside you.

Everyone has a burden and this is yours. Use it to heal.

[ForeverDad]

You sound like you're in shock. If you have PTSD, it's probably hard to ground yourself, so you're drawn to catastrophizing and feeling overwhelmed and beaten down. The majority of the people here have felt the same way, and most of us have kids, so we know exactly what it is you fear -- we live it.

But your biggest foe right now isn't an unborn child and $1000/month child support payments. It's you. A man who starts his own business is resourceful. Something in your radar is broken when it comes to people with PDs, and you're seeing a therapist to help you work through this. That takes courage and strength. You have everything you need to heal and pull yourself together and overcome this. But you are writing the final chapter before you've developed the plot and the characters. Catastrophizing like that is a bigger problem than the one you're fixating on.

There are so many unknowns to your situation and millions of variables you can't predict. You are fixating on the worst aspects, which might be part of your PTSD. One thing missing from your projections, and one that you can't even begin to imagine, is how you might feel when you see and hold your child. The battle to raise a healthy child in spite of my disordered ex is one of the most powerful things that has ever happened to me. It's entirely one hundred percent driven by love, and I have no idea where it comes from, except that it's not negotiable. It wasn't a choice I made. It just happened. You can't connect to that right now because you haven't experienced it yet. Maybe it won't happen, maybe it will. Maybe it won't happen right away, and instead comes gradually.

A lot of us here have, for one reason or another, arrived where we are because something was emotionally not whole. When you go through the healing process with your eyes wide open and committed to it despite the deep, raw emotions pooling around inside, you become whole. You just do. I could never do that without having a child -- I'm too stubborn, too controlled, too masterful with my coping mechanisms to do the really hard work. I needed to love someone like I do my son to learn what I needed to learn, and I needed a really challenging situation so I could crack through the egoic garbage and heal some leftover stuff from childhood. Maybe the same will happen for you, and you'll find strength inside you didn't know you had because you love someone unconditionally. If you can do that for someone else, you can learn how to do that for yourself. You become motivated to raise a healthy child and that means figuring out what it means to be emotionally healthy. Hardest thing I've ever done, and the most meaningful and rewarding.

You can choose to let this be your greatest lesson and learn what it has to teach, not just morally, but in every other way. You went from one PD to another, so something wasn't connecting for you in your healing. That's how it works. First, you get a tap. Then you get a punch to the shoulder. Then you get a body slam. Then the grenade next to your foot goes off. Then a house drops on your head. At some point, you sit up and pay attention and stop running away. This might be that moment for you.

The irony of all this, at least for me, is that my personal life was at an all-time low and my career, almost without any input from me, took off in a way I could never have predicted. You need to focus on right now, this moment, this chapter. Gather facts, talk to a lawyer ($50 for 30 minutes in some states), get a paternity test, keep posting here, talk to your therapist, and start drawing on the strength and resourcefulness inside you.

Everyone has a burden and this is yours. Use it to heal.

LivednLearned has become an astounding resource here, she's been through h*ll and survived intact and stronger, she really knows how to identify the issues and phrase so well what a person needs to do to make recovery and take his/her life back.  Print this out, place it somewhere where it is safe from prying eyes and intrusions and yet where you'll read it daily or whenever you're feeling crushed and lost.  Share it with your counselor.  The admonition and guiding light combo above is vital for you to see the bigger picture.

[Pou]

stoic83,

You sound like you're in shock. If you have PTSD, it's probably hard to ground yourself, so you're drawn to catastrophizing and feeling overwhelmed and beaten down. The majority of the people here have felt the same way, and most of us have kids, so we know exactly what it is you fear -- we live it.

But your biggest foe right now isn't an unborn child and $1000/month child support payments. It's you. A man who starts his own business is resourceful. Something in your radar is broken when it comes to people with PDs, and you're seeing a therapist to help you work through this. That takes courage and strength. You have everything you need to heal and pull yourself together and overcome this. But you are writing the final chapter before you've developed the plot and the characters. Catastrophizing like that is a bigger problem than the one you're fixating on.

There are so many unknowns to your situation and millions of variables you can't predict. You are fixating on the worst aspects, which might be part of your PTSD. One thing missing from your projections, and one that you can't even begin to imagine, is how you might feel when you see and hold your child. The battle to raise a healthy child in spite of my disordered ex is one of the most powerful things that has ever happened to me. It's entirely one hundred percent driven by love, and I have no idea where it comes from, except that it's not negotiable. It wasn't a choice I made. It just happened. You can't connect to that right now because you haven't experienced it yet. Maybe it won't happen, maybe it will. Maybe it won't happen right away, and instead comes gradually.

A lot of us here have, for one reason or another, arrived where we are because something was emotionally not whole. When you go through the healing process with your eyes wide open and committed to it despite the deep, raw emotions pooling around inside, you become whole. You just do. I could never do that without having a child -- I'm too stubborn, too controlled, too masterful with my coping mechanisms to do the really hard work. I needed to love someone like I do my son to learn what I needed to learn, and I needed a really challenging situation so I could crack through the egoic garbage and heal some leftover stuff from childhood. Maybe the same will happen for you, and you'll find strength inside you didn't know you had because you love someone unconditionally. If you can do that for someone else, you can learn how to do that for yourself. You become motivated to raise a healthy child and that means figuring out what it means to be emotionally healthy. Hardest thing I've ever done, and the most meaningful and rewarding.

You can choose to let this be your greatest lesson and learn what it has to teach, not just morally, but in every other way. You went from one PD to another, so something wasn't connecting for you in your healing. That's how it works. First, you get a tap. Then you get a punch to the shoulder. Then you get a body slam. Then the grenade next to your foot goes off. Then a house drops on your head. At some point, you sit up and pay attention and stop running away. This might be that moment for you.

The irony of all this, at least for me, is that my personal life was at an all-time low and my career, almost without any input from me, took off in a way I could never have predicted. You need to focus on right now, this moment, this chapter. Gather facts, talk to a lawyer ($50 for 30 minutes in some states), get a paternity test, keep posting here, talk to your therapist, and start drawing on the strength and resourcefulness inside you.

Everyone has a burden and this is yours. Use it to heal.

livenlearned, well said.  Stoic83, everything happens may not always for the best, but definitely not always for the worst.  Livenlearned said it very well.  keep things in perspective.  Keep in mind that everyone on this board have experienced or experiencing something comparable to your situation ... .may not be identical, but definitely difficult and that is what draws us to this board.  I have to say that people like Livenlearned takes out time to answer and keep things in perspective have been very helpful for me.  I used to have all these worst case scenarios and sometimes "not worst enough" ... .many on this board have offered their advice and keep us not feeling alone.  So you are not alone and things will not always be as bad as you imagine it... .hang in there and then something good may happen.

[stoic83]

Wow... .thanks guys.

Livednlearned... .your post was really beautiful. You are an amazing writer.

Thank you so much for sharing with me. Honestly, I wish I was a woman right now. I just feel like I have no control over anything. It's so frightening to be a man in this situation. Society tends to view women as the weaker sex, and I understand that a lot of times women are the victims of abuse.

I am a strong man. Everything I've read has said that people with PD's prey on the weak. But, I am really resilient. I keep getting knocked down, and I get back up.

I don't think there is anything wrong with my radar. Something inside me has the inability to act in the face of danger. It's like I'm mesmerized by disordered individuals, and I want to trust them... .

I think the problem is... .I just don't trust myself. It's really hard to these days. I know that if I wasn't in such a low place, I never would've met this woman.

It just seems like I'm way too trusting of women... .especially when they complain about abuse. It just makes me want to help. I can't explain it.

This seems like a popular way for women with PD's to sucker men in. I don't really desire to feel like a hero. I just feel their pain so deeply... .I can't explain it.

I draw a lot of disordered women to me like this... .I care about them. It's my biggest downfall.

After a lot of counseling, I have no problem saying to a woman... .look, I care about your feelings, but I care about my life more.

It actually seems to be making an impact.

In any case, I'd like to think that all my experiences with PDs is preparing me for something important. Maybe this is that important thing.

I'm not really sure.

I do know that men and women are quite different when it comes to bonding with children. My fear is that I would just care too much about the child... .and would be afraid to leave him/her alone with her... .

It seems like maybe I just need to walk away from the situation and blame it on chaos theory.

I'm too sensitive to deal with an emotional terrorist with a child being involved. I'm too protective.

I really care for all of you. I'm very sorry for all the pain you've experienced. I wish there was a better system in place to protect both adults and children from this type of torment.

I have my own place now and I am safe for the time being. I will continue to seek legal counsel and also try to stay on good terms with the woman. My aunt and uncle are both child psychologists and they think I can handle this, but I'm not so sure.

I also am not sure if I care as much about the whole genetic content thing as others do. I think human beings are all connected. I think a lot of the behaviors we engage in on a day to day basis are primitive... .and I just can't relate as much as others can.

It's very lonely... .

Thanks for the support guys. It's really, really, really hard and I thought I had put this behind me. Clearly it's just begun.

Stoic

[momtara]

I think the idea of not wanting to share this baby with a BPD woman, and worrying you'll care too much - it's a geniune thing to consider.  I don't think anyone should guilt you into caring about the child or being in his/her life.  It's something you have to decide for yourself.  I don't think it's selfish for you to want to be away from that madness.  And you are also considering that being around the child may just cause the mother to act out against you and may cause more chaos.  All of this is hard to predict.  You have a lot of decisions to make, but if you are not emotionally capable of being involved with the child, that's a legitimate thing to consider.  I'm not sure you should give up all rights - you may regret it.  Maybe you could move away and have occasional visitations, or whatever - enough so that you still are in the kid's life, just not in the mom's life.  All things to consider, and yes, it's a lot.  You know, maybe she has a criminal record, history of suicide attempts, etc - these things may be public record or in the records of her divorce from her ex, who has likely also dealt with madness.

By the way, of course it matters whether you are genetically the dad.  And there are tests before birth to determine that too, not sure if she'd be willing to take them. 

[trappeddad]

you may regret not having some role in your child's life.     please look at the glass half full.    having a child is a great experience.    and ensuring the child has a positive figure in his life may help him/her better deal with a psycho mom.     my experience is not that different than yours, and my decision to be part of my child's life (although difficult with the mom) is the best decision ever for me and for my son.   

[ForeverDad]

I'm sorry you feel so exhausted and overwhelmed... .

Please keep reading and posting to help get the support you need. When things were wild and crazy at our home, we learned that we needed to spend extra time looking after ourselves so we could be strong enough to help the kids. My husband likes to use the analogy of what they say on an airplane -- you must put your own oxygen mask on before helping your child.

You have been given some excellent advice already, I urge you to heed it.  My list always starts with the same 2 items - (1) Get a therapist/counselor for yourself, (2) Get an attorney experienced in dealing with high-conflict divorce (attorney code for personality disordered) ... .  The stakes are too high for anything less.

Do you recall the emergency directions you receive upon boarding a plane?   Put your own oxygen mask on first and then help your kids.  Do notice it does not not say first help your gf put on her mask?  This is the time to start putting on your mask.

I know what to do. I just think the conflict dynamic has robbed me of the energy... .

I am thinking these days that the best gift I can give her is to love and adore myself. I'm not thinking in a Narcissistic way, but in a caretaking way. I saw in a different post that you have set goals for yourself, separate to him or the family, for your own sense of achievement. I think that's an excellent way to care for yourself. The principle being the same as the oxygen mask in an airplane. They say, "Put your oxygen mask on first before helping others".

The above are excerpts from 3 separate posts by 3 separate members on 3 different boards here in the past month, all use the same illustration and all make the same point:  In order for things to get better you have to start by taking care of yourself first.  And frankly, you may not notice an improvement in yourself until you've been working on yourself for a while.  Think of "the watched pot never boils" analogy.  So don't get or stay discouraged.  Just do the grunt work and before long you'll be surprised to notice that things really are looking up.  Maybe your situation won't have improved by much yet but your perceptions and your perspective of your situation has improved.

How do you take care of yourself?  (By getting over the cycle of self-blaming that really isn't productive... .)

• Local support such as trusted friends and family.  Not mutual friends or the other's family, no, your friends and your family.



• Mental resources.  Find an experienced counselor or therapist for yourself.



• Legal resources.  Find a family law attorney who has practical strategies for you.



• Peer support and resources, such as here.  Yes, we are remote and relatively anonymous but we do case and what we learned from those before us we pay forward to those arriving.

[stoic83]

Hey Guys,

There's clearly no way out of this situation without some unpleasant feelings. I am in a safe environment alone with my dog. I talk to my aunt and uncle who are lovely people and child psychologists. I have made a friend at work.

I have a therapist whose trying to help me. As time passes I will speak with another attorney. The last one I spoke with did nothing but raise fears within me. He was a dirtbag.

When the pathological Narcissist robbed my company... .assaulted and battered me. He wanted to "negotiate" equity for himself. I said, "I do not negotiate with terrorists".

This woman is a terrorist. She has heartbreaking leverage over me... .the one thing I have learned when being extorted or blackmailed by emotional terrorists, is to disengage.

I am trying to do this with her. She has no self awareness in to her lying, manipulation, etc... .I try to give her the gift of self-awareness but it isn't  helping.

She says she is in counseling and tells me things about her sessions. It doesn't sound like her counselor is bring self-awareness to her actions, merely helping her cope with her reality.

I am seeing her on Sunday evening.

The last I saw her, I told her that as a "sperm donor" I could provide contact with her child so that he/she would know their biological father. I also said that she could look at me as a caring friend.

I am trying to defuse any abandonment rage within her... .and also control the situation so that she doesn't go to the courts. Honestly, the longer I can delay her taking action against me the better. Remember, I was technically homeless and on food stamps 4 months ago due to the embezzlement.

Going to the courts would be a major loss for me, as it would put my entire life plan in jeopardy. I am not a "corporate" guy... .I am an entrepreneur and I take risks so that I can try to invent new things and help society.

One major fear of mine, is that she will go to the courts and they will put a number on me that is commensurate to what i am making right now, removing the financial freedom that I have to make choices that would positively impact my future, as well as many others. I know what my role is in society... .I am a leader and I need to use my natural abilities to help the economy and help others. I am not a "baby daddy" "sugar daddy" "codependent loser". It seems like this is what our justice system feels that I should be that for being deceived and robbed of my choices.

The pipe dream of starting a side business, working 40-50 hours a week, and raising a child... .is not possible. Also, if my "extra" money all goes to this woman and her child, I won't be able to save any money and I will be trapped in the corporate world, trapped by the government, trapped by this woman.

I am very resourceful... .but I don't intend to rent out a room or go live in my car or a trailer. I have worked very hard to climb out of the gutter and all I care about right now is my own self-healing and comfort. This "healthy-selfishness" is now being threatened by this emotional terrorist and the "little hostage" inside her tummy.

I feel a little better, getting some distance from the situation. I cleaned up my place a little last night and took a bath.

I am throwing myself in to my work and doing a great job... .so despite my panic attacks and "episodes" at work... .I am maintaining stability the best that I can.

I am trying hard to take care of myself and to take my mind off of this... .honestly, I just don't want any more trauma in my life. I am like a badly damaged plant and I need SUN and WATER so that I can be healthy again.

No matter what. I will not let the injustices of another or society dictate what I feel is right. I have some time to think about it... .

Until then I am trying to stay on good terms with her... .and put up boundaries to protect myself. I have to remember that she is a SICK person. That she isn't necessarily malicious... .just acting out of desperartion, and has poor impulse control due to an improper frontal lobe.

What can I do to make things better? If i am a true leader... .how can I get her to fall in line without giving up what I want in life? Not by control... .by example... .by boundaries... .she is a child herself in many regards.

Maybe this is a test.

Kindly,

Stoic

[momtara]

Don't know if your lawyer went over this with you -

In my state, you have to fill out this detailed financial form that goes into everything, including how much money you spend doing your laundry every week, on therapy, etc.  So you may not just be charged based on your income.

"I am trying to defuse any abandonment rage within her... ."

I think that is a good thing.  Also, delaying the courts is ok if you think it will help you get to a better place.

But remember, if this is not your kid, she doesn't have this leverage you speak of.  I wonder if you are also delaying leaving just because you have feelings for her.  You would not be the first, nor would you be judged for it.

[Pou]

stoic83, perhaps let go your idealized life plan … and start to remind yourself that life is what happens when you are planning it.  Yes, it is a cliche but sometimes people do forget.  I wanted my life to unfold differently, but here I am dealing with stuff that I really don't want to deal with along with 99.999% of people on this forum.  Yeap, once again, you are not alone and don't your PD ex-girlfriend rob your joy of life … you got lots of room to be happy if you can marginalize your experiences with her going forward.  Many smart people said smart things on this thread.  I think the best thing that PDs done for nons is that they made us philosophers.  Someone once said that thank your enemy for what they can bring out of you.  That is self discovery and not many people get to have that during this lifetime.  Best luck to you.

[ImaFita]

Stoic, I have had nearly the EXACT same thing happen to me.

She couldn't have kids and was actually on the pill.

Then fell pregnant, and threatened to tell my family if I didn't - she didn't even know my family.

I lived in a small town surrounded by family, who all rallied around her during her pregnancy.

In the end I moved out of the town due to her basically replacing me in my own family.

Then she told everyone I want nothing to do with my son, tried to make out we were in a relationship - I only slept with her 5-6 times.

So I understand your frustration, anger and despair.

These people want us to just give up and not fight, that is why they pick us - thanks for coming kind of thing.

And as easy as it is to get angry and lash out physically, that is also perfect for them.

In my experience, not many psychologists really understand the situation, they were just like "She sounds disordered".

But I have started seeing a forensic psychologist who really understands.

I understand your point about emotional abuse with the children.

When I realised 3 years ago that the courts weren't going to help me I started studying psychology - now in my 3rd years.

So in my instance, I felt exactly like you - that life had ended - but I thought if I could become a psychologist then maybe oneday I could help my son. I wouldn't of decided to study if I hadn't hit rock bottom.

So try find some positives out of this dreadful situation and empower yourself to become the man you want to be.

Life is far from over my friend.