When do we start realizing that we might be crazy?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Yes I have done all of the things I could think of to try and get over my ex.

So at times I thought it worked. This one thought or feeling though will not leave my mind and I go into a complete fixated state that just doesn't seem to get better.

The more I focus on her PD, the more I start to make this to be more "normal" behavior. I mean for some odd reason the last 5-6 girls that I had a r/s with were definitely on the borderline. Of course right now it is hard to tell what my r/s were like 10 years ago, but most of the just cut me out and it got cold. I guess I start to see BP traits in people, but it cannot be possible that I dated 4 BPDs. 2 yes, but 4?

Seems like up until the last one there was no hope for finding the "one".

Somehow I never click with any of my gfs (except the last one yes. sigh) not since I was under 20.

Maybe something happened to me, only after this last bu though did I feel like I was losing my mind. A lot of old feelings have surfaced, new scars over old ones.

Sometimes I think it is I who is crazy, the only thing that I can deduce in certainty is my ex's behavior. She is like a leech trying to hold on to people around her. For most people it probably gets exhausting.

5 months and still haven't let go. I don't even try to distract myself anymore it seems. I realized that I was only scanning the news feed to see if she posted anything, then I realized I started looking at all the posts that were there and that is when I realized I am acting a bit insane.

My thoughts are driving me nuts. Seeing her at work is making things much harder. I don't think I'm insane, I just had to learn a lesson the mf hardest way, to take a look at myself and see who I am becoming. I realized that I was pretty much on auto pilot the last 10 years. I have stopped trying to make my life better, and now I feel like I don't have the power to do it alone. But I used to be a loner and didn't mind working on myself and doing things I liked. I don't rest until I think about her and that she is out there and could be talking to me. I am getting better though at least I can say this. But even a couple days ago it was almost as bad as months ago.

[shellbent]

Yes I have done all of the things I could think of to try and get over my ex.

So at times I thought it worked. This one thought or feeling though will not leave my mind and I go into a complete fixated state that just doesn't seem to get better.

The more I focus on her PD, the more I start to make this to be more "normal" behavior. I mean for some odd reason the last 5-6 girls that I had a r/s with were definitely on the borderline. Of course right now it is hard to tell what my r/s were like 10 years ago, but most of the just cut me out and it got cold. I guess I start to see BP traits in people, but it cannot be possible that I dated 4 BPDs. 2 yes, but 4?

Seems like up until the last one there was no hope for finding the "one".

Somehow I never click with any of my gfs (except the last one yes. sigh) not since I was under 20.

Maybe something happened to me, only after this last bu though did I feel like I was losing my mind. A lot of old feelings have surfaced, new scars over old ones.

Sometimes I think it is I who is crazy, the only thing that I can deduce in certainty is my ex's behavior. She is like a leech trying to hold on to people around her. For most people it probably gets exhausting.

5 months and still haven't let go. I don't even try to distract myself anymore it seems. I realized that I was only scanning the news feed to see if she posted anything, then I realized I started looking at all the posts that were there and that is when I realized I am acting a bit insane.

My thoughts are driving me nuts. Seeing her at work is making things much harder. I don't think I'm insane, I just had to learn a lesson the mf hardest way, to take a look at myself and see who I am becoming. I realized that I was pretty much on auto pilot the last 10 years. I have stopped trying to make my life better, and now I feel like I don't have the power to do it alone. But I used to be a loner and didn't mind working on myself and doing things I liked. I don't rest until I think about her and that she is out there and could be talking to me. I am getting better though at least I can say this. But even a couple days ago it was almost as bad as months ago.

[Fluff]

You are "crazy"! We are "crazy". That's why we need therapy too.

I asked a mutual friend if he was interested in my ex. "Too much drama" he said. Well, not for me!  But then I end up sitting there crying, shaking... .F*ck that. No more.

[tim_tom]

It's hard man, getting over a relationship with a BPD seems like the toughest one to get over.

Lately I have been missing the constant barrage of texts I'd get when we were apart. It used to annoy me a bit, now I miss it.

I don't know if I'm crazy, but I do know this whole thing has shaken me to my core and left me reeling in a way I didn't think was possible. I used to scratch my head when I heard people struggling so hard with a breakup, and now I am here at 40 years old. I've also realized my particular issues made me a prime candidate to take this as hard as I have. The strange thing is that I have good days, some times several days in a row. Enough that I think I am finally over it, then something happens and boom, I fall right back into it.

[clydegriffith]

It's hard man, getting over a relationship with a BPD seems like the toughest one to get over.

Lately I have been missing the constant barrage of texts I'd get when we were apart. It used to annoy me a bit, now I miss it.

I don't know if I'm crazy, but I do know this whole thing has shaken me to my core and left me reeling in a way I didn't think was possible. I used to scratch my head when I heard people struggling so hard with a breakup, and now I am here at 40 years old. I've also realized my particular issues made me a prime candidate to take this as hard as I have. The strange thing is that I have good days, some times several days in a row. Enough that I think I am finally over it, then something happens and boom, I fall right back into it.

I now see excessive texting right after meeting someone as a huge red flag. My BPDx would text me all day or call me at my office all the time. I don't think it's normal for somoene you haven't known for verly long to show that kind of clinginess or attachment.

[Mr Hollande]

For myself I'd attribute it to being weak, lazy, scared and stupid but not crazy. I am odd, yes. I never did fit in and my outlook on life often does not correspond with the rest of the world. I am maybe even extreme and radical in some respects but when it comes to life defining matters I am capable of understanding them and making good and sane decisions accordingly. I am in control of my life. No, I am most certainly not crazy. That department belongs to my bat___ ex gf thank you very much.

[dakini9x]

I've been wondering about this too...   The first few weeks after the breakup were so nice... Peaceful, quite, and calm.  I was thinking, YES, this is what I need and want.  I feel like I can breathe again.   Now, I keep looking at the phone, wondering if I will ever get another text message.  Craziness it is!  I used to get so irritated when he spam texted me because I did not reply fast enough to the first one. Now I am missing those texts.  Or at least I think I am.  Intellectually I know I DO NOT want to go back to that life, but for some reason I am missing him. 

[tim_tom]

I now see excessive texting right after meeting someone as a huge red flag. My BPDx would text me all day or call me at my office all the time. I don't think it's normal for somoene you haven't known for verly long to show that kind of clinginess or attachment.

No, it's not normal... Not at all. But I miss the attention, ya know?

Now I don't get texted at all on 1/2 the days by anyone. She had isolated me from my friends, and we spent 24x7 together... So I don't have a great support network. Just network

[shellbent]

It depends who is sending you the texts. My ex did the same thing always texting me calling me many times a day. But it never annoyed me because I wanted someone who pays a lot of attention to me.

On the other hand this other girl annoys me when she texts me since I'm trying to stay away from her.

I think I am also very different than most people I meet. In fact lately I've had trouble making connections with people. A lot of times I just lose interest in talking to them. I used to say that it was my busy schedule and that I just simply forgot to respond. But my ex and my reading about PDs, made me think that I had NPD traits.

But I thought about myself and said I feel empathy, too much of it even. But recently it has been hard to even actively listen to other people. The toughest thing is to criticize myself beyond the point of laziness or comfort.

When I read about NPD and BPD relationships, I found the most interesting articles on the web also videos on youtube. It describes exactly how my last r/s started. Like two magnets pulling each other. Actually at first I was a magnet to her but unaware. :P

After talking though I quickly realized.

But I feel like a really compassionate person, I am deeply caring, and I see all the good traits in myself that I value or strive for. Is it possible though that all of this ties back to me wanting to control my situation and that I only give empathy and care if I receive something back?

I definitely feel like there has been a shift in my life, but I was so unaware of this even being a possibility. It took me a good 3 months of "diagnosing" my ex and I could not imagine how this could be true about me. But I do sometimes think in black and white, but I don't judge people based on all good or all bad. Just there are people that interest me, ones I can have long meaningful conversations with, while other people and pretending, acting, small talk doesn't interest me much.

I find myself going between loving humanity and then feeling disappointed by the negativity in people as a whole.

It's hard to see that I would be seriously troubled, but I can't rule it out completely.

[cancan88]

It depends who is sending you the texts. My ex did the same thing always texting me calling me many times a day. But it never annoyed me because I wanted someone who pays a lot of attention to me.

On the other hand this other girl annoys me when she texts me since I'm trying to stay away from her.

I think I am also very different than most people I meet. In fact lately I've had trouble making connections with people. A lot of times I just lose interest in talking to them. I used to say that it was my busy schedule and that I just simply forgot to respond. But my ex and my reading about PDs, made me think that I had NPD traits.

But I thought about myself and said I feel empathy, too much of it even. But recently it has been hard to even actively listen to other people. The toughest thing is to criticize myself beyond the point of laziness or comfort.

When I read about NPD and BPD relationships, I found the most interesting articles on the web also videos on youtube. It describes exactly how my last r/s started. Like two magnets pulling each other. Actually at first I was a magnet to her but unaware. :P

After talking though I quickly realized.

But I feel like a really compassionate person, I am deeply caring, and I see all the good traits in myself that I value or strive for. Is it possible though that all of this ties back to me wanting to control my situation and that I only give empathy and care if I receive something back?

I definitely feel like there has been a shift in my life, but I was so unaware of this even being a possibility. It took me a good 3 months of "diagnosing" my ex and I could not imagine how this could be true about me. But I do sometimes think in black and white, but I don't judge people based on all good or all bad. Just there are people that interest me, ones I can have long meaningful conversations with, while other people and pretending, acting, small talk doesn't interest me much.

I find myself going between loving humanity and then feeling disappointed by the negativity in people as a whole.

It's hard to see that I would be seriously troubled, but I can't rule it out completely.

I can totally see your point. After leaving my relationship, I really believed I could either be a npd or BPD. One thing we need to realize is that we enter these relationships with very low self esteem and boundaries. We also train ourselves to adapt to their black and white thinking, rollercoaster, etc... And we usually end up with several traits sometimes they are conscious and subconscious. The main point of it all is that you can identify it, they on the other hand can't. Which makes you normal. We are cArry narcissistic traits (some more so than others),  and I believe that's healthy because after a break up we need to build ourselves back up. And when we do, we can rebalance it out back to a normal level with time and experience.

All of this is a process, sometimes a painfully slow one. All that matters is that you are growing emotionally, intellectually and spiritually. Once you stop growing then you become like your ex. And then everything you said earlier would be correct in that regard.

[Blimblam]

One of the behaviors of peBPD is coined "crazy making behavior". This is no understatement. The ones that are a bit higher functioning can gas light you to the crazy house. I even read a story about low functioning ones driving their exs to suicide attempts.

The techniques they use are identicle to brainwashing. In brainwashing and torture there is a breaking point where the mind snaps this is often accompanied by hallucinations. That's what I read about brainwashing at least, it was also my experience with my ex.

[cancan88]

One of the behaviors of peBPD is coined "crazy making behavior". This is no understatement. The ones that are a bit higher functioning can gas light you to the crazy house. I even read a story about low functioning ones driving their exs to suicide attempts.

The techniques they use are identicle to brainwashing. In brainwashing and torture there is a breaking point where the mind snaps this is often accompanied by hallucinations. That's what I read about brainwashing at least, it was also my experience with my ex.

If you are in the fog, coupled with a lack of understanding. You will believe everything your BPDex says like it's gospel.

[shellbent]

I can totally see your point. After leaving my relationship, I really believed I could either be a npd or BPD. One thing we need to realize is that we enter these relationships with very low self esteem and boundaries. We also train ourselves to adapt to their black and white thinking, rollercoaster, etc... And we usually end up with several traits sometimes they are conscious and subconscious. The main point of it all is that you can identify it, they on the other hand can't. Which makes you normal. We are cArry narcissistic traits (some more so than others),  and I believe that's healthy because after a break up we need to build ourselves back up. And when we do, we can rebalance it out back to a normal level with time and experience.

All of this is a process, sometimes a painfully slow one. All that matters is that you are growing emotionally, intellectually and spiritually. Once you stop growing then you become like your ex. And then everything you said earlier would be correct in that regard.

You are totally right thanks for the insight.

Now that I think about it, this was the most brutal bu I experienced. In most of my relationships I could say that I reached a point of loving them. But I think even that type of love was more tied to a feeling than the actual person. My last ex was the only one I felt that I ever truly loved (who loved me just as much), but all the insecurities and triggers got "in the way".

I hope that in time I will lose this horrible sensation that I lost something great. I realized that her idealization was like a drug to me, and after all of this would register in my mind and I would realize that I didn't miss her that much after all. This didn't last too long though. This all is mixed with a good amount of guilt, I know I didn't know any better, but I should have known better.

And now I am finally "learning" the fact that she has moved on. (which I know her well enough to have figured this out before her telling me) I think keeping in touch with her makes it easier for me to detach because NC is absolute hell. I had a talk with her that lasted a half hour. She told me everything that goes against the BPD behavior. For once I finally saw her spending time on her own. Otherwise she has been hanging around a huge group of people at work.

She was feeling down because now they are leaving her out of things again.

On the other hand she told me that right now she is so happy and that she is finding herself, but I think this is just that temporary phase when they feel like everything is right in their lives. Maybe she tries not to get too attached to someone and that way they can't hurt that much. So it seems like massive triangulation.

Point being, I think I had to realize that NPD is very attractive to the BPD and there was a really crazy intense draw between us, it was unreal.

So I think I needed to realize by this bu, that I was venturing on the border of unhealthy narcissism.

Somehow I'm still turned inward looking for answers, and the best thing I could do was constantly think about her.

[Blimblam]

It reminds me if the film the matrix.

When cypher delivers Morpheus to the agents as they are getting in his mind to break it to get the codes.  Right before neo goes to save him.

[cancan88]

I can totally see your point. After leaving my relationship, I really believed I could either be a npd or BPD. One thing we need to realize is that we enter these relationships with very low self esteem and boundaries. We also train ourselves to adapt to their black and white thinking, rollercoaster, etc... And we usually end up with several traits sometimes they are conscious and subconscious. The main point of it all is that you can identify it, they on the other hand can't. Which makes you normal. We are cArry narcissistic traits (some more so than others),  and I believe that's healthy because after a break up we need to build ourselves back up. And when we do, we can rebalance it out back to a normal level with time and experience.

All of this is a process, sometimes a painfully slow one. All that matters is that you are growing emotionally, intellectually and spiritually. Once you stop growing then you become like your ex. And then everything you said earlier would be correct in that regard.

You are totally right thanks for the insight.

Now that I think about it, this was the most brutal bu I experienced. In most of my relationships I could say that I reached a point of loving them. But I think even that type of love was more tied to a feeling than the actual person. My last ex was the only one I felt that I ever truly loved (who loved me just as much), but all the insecurities and triggers got "in the way".

I hope that in time I will lose this horrible sensation that I lost something great. I realized that her idealization was like a drug to me, and after all of this would register in my mind and I would realize that I didn't miss her that much after all. This didn't last too long though. This all is mixed with a good amount of guilt, I know I didn't know any better, but I should have known better.

And now I am finally "learning" the fact that she has moved on. (which I know her well enough to have figured this out before her telling me) I think keeping in touch with her makes it easier for me to detach because NC is absolute hell. I had a talk with her that lasted a half hour. She told me everything that goes against the BPD behavior. For once I finally saw her spending time on her own. Otherwise she has been hanging around a huge group of people at work.

She was feeling down because now they are leaving her out of things again.

On the other hand she told me that right now she is so happy and that she is finding herself, but I think this is just that temporary phase when they feel like everything is right in their lives. Maybe she tries not to get too attached to someone and that way they can't hurt that much. So it seems like massive triangulation.

Point being, I think I had to realize that NPD is very attractive to the BPD and there was a really crazy intense draw between us, it was unreal.

So I think I needed to realize by this bu, that I was venturing on the border of unhealthy narcissism.

Somehow I'm still turned inward looking for answers, and the best thing I could do was constantly think about her.

Be careful of one thing. I have been in therapy for a long time. When I met my last ex, I was beginning to become more comfortable with myself. I would share my experiences and insights. I gave her a lot of feedback from my sessions and my own growth. They are great copy cats, and she would repeat a lot of things I told her back to me. Which I the beginning of the relationship made me think she was super healthy and normal. I was so wrong, just a heads up. Don't believe everything she says. If you can detach and let the current (rip tide of pain ) take you away. Don't fight it. And when you end up back at shore it may look different but at least you will be out of it.

[jorge]

shellbent, yes it is possible to date several borderlines in a row. I fell in love with a borderline *because* she had been hospitalized - fortunately no relationship arose from that. A second woman had reportedly been diagnosed and my last gf.

I am 3 weeks after my breakup of the three months relationship with my exgf who I suspect to have borderline traits and who called herself narcissistic. I broke it off after an disturbing incident. I now see her quite mildly, I see that her behaviour 'made sense' in relationship to BPD and somehow I am at peace with her.

But I'm struggling the the idea that I myself might have narcissistic traits. I'm almost panicking currently.  I don't want to :-( There are the theories that narcissists and borderlines are drawn to eachother. And therefore - so do I think - I may be a narcissist. I have done two rounds of therapy each 3 or four years until now. And the second therapist told me that my narcissistic traits were in the normal range. But still: I ponder about details of my behaviour in the past and try to book it on the narcissistic or non-narcissistic side of the book.

Thinking that one can or has to fix the partner with severe problems may be narcissistic.

So I think I needed to realize by this bu, that I was venturing on the border of unhealthy narcissism.

Can you elaborate? Do mean within your relationship?

[shellbent]

So I think I needed to realize by this bu, that I was venturing on the border of unhealthy narcissism.

Can you elaborate? Do mean within your relationship?

I mean sometimes I try to think about what it is that I love about my ex, and it strongly ties into a feeling that I had when I was with her. Her looking up to me needing me and loving me back is what I miss. But there are also things that I don't miss, but I tend to rarely even think about them. So I am having a tough time lately defining what love is. I mean I thought it was a selfless love, just the two people who could really relate to each other feeling great about having each other in our lives.

But I am in a really tough situation now, that I can't seem to get over her.

And I feel like some part of me isn't real or I don't know why, but I can't really connect with people anymore. I feel lonely without her and I spend time with others but I don't enjoy it because everything seems to trigger me. Then I start to miss her even more. So finding someone who even gives me the slightest hope that there is something more there, seems completely futile.

I think this bu left me with something that I can't put behind me.

For some reason I feel like I don't have the motivation to do things for myself.

I never thought I could be a narc, but looking at my life at the moment, there has to be an explanation that I feel like absolute crap. So maybe there is something wrong with me, how else to explain the things being the way they are hopeless and grim.

[jorge]

So I think I needed to realize by this bu, that I was venturing on the border of unhealthy narcissism.

Can you elaborate? Do mean within your relationship?

I mean sometimes I try to think about what it is that I love about my ex, and it strongly ties into a feeling that I had when I was with her. Her looking up to me needing me and loving me back is what I miss. But there are also things that I don't miss, but I tend to rarely even think about them. So I am having a tough time lately defining what love is. I mean I thought it was a selfless love, just the two people who could really relate to each other feeling great about having each other in our lives.

But I am in a really tough situation now, that I can't seem to get over her.

And I feel like some part of me isn't real or I don't know why, but I can't really connect with people anymore. I feel lonely without her and I spend time with others but I don't enjoy it because everything seems to trigger me. Then I start to miss her even more. So finding someone who even gives me the slightest hope that there is something more there, seems completely futile.

I think this bu left me with something that I can't put behind me.

For some reason I feel like I don't have the motivation to do things for myself.

I never thought I could be a narc, but looking at my life at the moment, there has to be an explanation that I feel like absolute crap. So maybe there is something wrong with me, how else to explain the things being the way they are hopeless and grim.

shellbent, feeling like crap and not being able to connect to other people after a traumatic relationship doesn't make you a narcissist.

Have you done or considered doing therapy?

I had presented my psychoanalyst the idea that I myself might be a borderline because I had been identifying with her and she told me not to be nuts. The same with my idea of being a narcissist.

[MrHydesWifefor33years]

I believe you are a compassionate empathetic man. BD's sense that and attach to you like a heat seeking missile. Get help before you end up in a relationship with one and have children. Search for a counselor who understands personality disorders (they are a rare, so ask questions before you become invested). Figure out what you have to change about yourself to stop attracting monster women. What about your childhood and your past relationships causes you to want a relationship with a woman who punishes you mentally and emotionally. You deserve a healthy emotional relationship. It's taken me 33 years to get out of a marriage with a Narcissistic Borderline man. You are young. Get help now.

[SickofMe]

I asked my therapist the same thing--about BPD and NPD being attracted to one another... .she thought it was nonsense.  Said BPD is abusive and NPD won't tolerate abuse.  I wouldn't call it gospel but it made sense to me.  I don't think NPD will put up with needy folks... .they lack empathy.  I don't really think BPD lacks empathy, it seems more like when they are triggered/dysregulated, their own feelings swallow them whole and render them unable to empathize.

I think most of us feel crazy by the time we are done with these relationships.  NPD wouldn't even ask themselves the question.

[shellbent]

I asked my therapist the same thing--about BPD and NPD being attracted to one another... .she thought it was nonsense.  Said BPD is abusive and NPD won't tolerate abuse.  I wouldn't call it gospel but it made sense to me.  I don't think NPD will put up with needy folks... .they lack empathy.  I don't really think BPD lacks empathy, it seems more like when they are triggered/dysregulated, their own feelings swallow them whole and render them unable to empathize.

I think most of us feel crazy by the time we are done with these relationships.  NPD wouldn't even ask themselves the question.

Well if I am NPD at least I would be aware, however that doesn't do to much good,

I just need to know which behavior I have to monitor not to fall into the routine.

And I think other women don't attract me like she does. I feel like I'm incapable or inpatient to build a strong relationship with a woman. It has been a long time that I had a woman show a genuine interest in me, then again I might not even noticed if she wasn't someone I was interested in.

I don't know why, but I just felt like it was safe to feel those things with my ex.

And anytime I am with someone else I keep wishing just for a few moments that it is her.

There is a whole section named 'Have we met before' I suggest you read it. But for it all to make sense you would have had to go thru the same NPD + BPD insane attraction.

I can sense that there has been a change in my behavior in the past, from that point on I pretty much stopped showing any extreme emotions or through facial expressions. It feels like sometimes I just don't have enough "energy" to conjure up a big vivid reaction. It is counterproductive because I feel like I am showing emotions and empathy, but it might not be so obvious to the outside world.

My ex made me feel like anything I gave to her I got back.

And I can't tell her any of this, because she is unaware of all this. She is completely disassociated our rs, she will never see how much she meant to me.

She will never remember what it was like loving me.

[SickofMe]

There is a whole section named 'Have we met before' I suggest you read it. But for it all to make sense you would have had to go thru the same NPD + BPD insane attraction.

Can you link this?  I can't find it.

I understand the "crazy attraction" thing.  And am pretty sure my own personality has some instability underneath it all--despite a lot of work and reflection--otherwise why would I exclusively fall in love with "unavailable" men who come on so strong in the beginning?

[shellbent]

There is a whole section named 'Have we met before' I suggest you read it. But for it all to make sense you would have had to go thru the same NPD + BPD insane attraction.

Can you link this?  I can't find it.

I understand the "crazy attraction" thing.  And am pretty sure my own personality has some instability underneath it all--despite a lot of work and reflection--otherwise why would I exclusively fall in love with "unavailable" men who come on so strong in the beginning?

just goggle search this: "haven't we met before npd"

it will be the first hit

There are at least 25 different articles and they are so long, they have so much information it is hard to take in all at once.

[SickofMe]

Ugh!  Googled, read, and now feel like there's more wrong with me than I realized!

Honestly--I don't buy it.  At least not all of it.  Maybe co-dependent, fixer types have narcissistic traits but I don't think some of these descriptions make sense if we are talking about NPD.  To me, it seems more like being hyper-empathic and having poor boundaries is the issue.  Always wanting to find a reason for strange, confusing behavior... .and bending over backwards trying to understand, feeling others' feelings to my own detriment (i.e. ignoring my own).

I'm sure we are not all alike but it's hard to believe that someone completely self-involved could tolerate someone with strong borderline traits for long.  Maybe this dynamic exists more when both partners are "moderately/severely" narcissistic or borderline-ish?

All I really know is that reading that stuff is super depressing and confusing!

[rosannadanna]

cra·zy/ˈkrāzē/

adjective

1.mentally deranged, especially as manifested in a wild or aggressive way.

2.extremely enthusiastic.

3.(of an angle) appearing absurdly out of place or in an unlikely position.


I think it a negative label that separates people into oversimplified categories (crazy=bad; not crazy=good).  So it sounds like you are turning that label inward and maybe feeling defective or broken?

Try not to use harsh labels when trying to figure this stuff out, for either your ex or yourself.  I think it is more beneficial to leave labels out and simply try to be "nonjudgementally curious".  But it takes a while to get there through the grieving process, since these b/u's tend to be life-altering.

The way you descibe yourself doesn't sound like it meets criteria for NPD, but I was where you are during my r/s b/c my ex told me I did meet criteria and I was deep in the FOG.  Since the b/u, I have concluded that I have heavy codependent traits and within that, I struggle with low self-esteem, was clueless about boundaries, and had what member 2010 calls "altruisistic narcissism".

It might be helpful for you to search 2010 posts on this term as well as "lonely child", as you talk about feeling "outside" or different.  I can definitely relate to you and found reading up on the lonely child helpful.

Take care and good luck on your journey

[shellbent]

All I really know is that reading that stuff is super depressing and confusing!

Yes, I know and there is so much out there. Another website is focused on GWC, or grown wounded children, and this family therapist says about 90% of grown adults are GWC. This does not mean there is also a PD but that these adults are suffering from setting up a false self. So until we unleash the real Self, we are not acting according to our true being.

His series is called 'Break the Cycle', and it is a non-profit website dedicated to helping people grow into healthy adults. I started with that and it is very thorough, in fact there is so much information, that I didn't get through all of it yet.

I recommend this as it takes off the labels of BPD, NPD, etc and just deals with certain types of behaviors.

I think this is also what is most important for someone with NPD traits, to recognize and observe the negative behaviors and try to change the outcome or the dynamic of a certain situation. Since most likely someone with NPD will not be aware of the negative behavior only until after the circumstances have been drawn. The only way to alter these feelings, is to get to the cause of it all, or to realize when the behavior is happening and doing something about it then and there.

[shellbent]

It might be helpful for you to search 2010 posts on this term as well as "lonely child", as you talk about feeling "outside" or different.  I can definitely relate to you and found reading up on the lonely child helpful.

Take care and good luck on your journey

Thank you I found your response inspiring.

As I mentioned in my previous post, there is an entire website called 'Break the cycle' and it is focused mainly on the wounded inner child that most of us possess.

So I have been doing a lot of reading on this, but I will be sure to check out what you mentioned also.

The truth is I have always considered myself a bit crazy, but that was a long time ago and maybe jokingly. Well that was before I knew a lot about the specific PDs that exist. I was familiar with most of the behaviors, I just never would have thought that my rs would fail so miserably especially due to something so unfortunate.

So in all I am only taking a close look at my surroundings and trying to come up with a conclusion to why my life is where it is. And I can see why some of my previous behavior has led me to this path, the one thing I can't figure out is why this thing tore such a huge hole in me that I feel like I don't even know who I am anymore.

Up until that point there was never any worry in my head that something wasn't right, I always thought about this a bit too much and I was always self aware and on top of things.

Now on the other hand it feels like I did something terrible or that there is something wrong with me for feeling so down the last couple months, and I just can't even see the people that are there for me. But somehow I would rather avoid other people because they just remind me that they are not my ex and there is no point in talking to them. So when I behave this way and I feel like there must be something wrong with me, I keep fixating on my ex because my mind had me convinced that we were perfect for each other.

And I know this is over simplification because there have to be tons of people better, more caring then her, but why don't I want to believe this?

Like I said it never came to mind that I would be NPD, heartless and without empathy, I mean I have too much empathy if anything. But it is the only explanation to why I am feeling so alone and broken without her. I mean I didn't need her before I met her and I don't think I need her now, but I just can't stop thinking about her.

So it is a dilemma, on one hand I seclude myself a lot of times from people so that I can be myself and create things without conforming to others, on the other hand I find myself being so different on purpose that when it comes to making connections with people I find it much harder to do. I feel like I'm missing my muse, but it has become an addiction to rely on someone to make me feel better.

How could she make me feel even better and now the total opposite.

I don't know what it is, I know I'm losing my mind a little.

[SickofMe]

But it is the only explanation to why I am feeling so alone and broken without her.

Nope, it really isn't the only explanation.

HUGE difference between having narcissistic traits and having NPD.

NPD is callously self-absorbed, entitled, and exploitative.

You can be all kinds of "crazy" without being NPD (or having any Cluster B dx).

I think it's really easy to start seeing yourself in every dx when you are hurting so badly.