Signs of infidelity

[anxiety5]

Follow your gut feeling, I never thought she would, but we broke up for two weeks, she slept with someone else, that she has known for a while.  Was the first time? she says so, but with all the convenient break ups who knows.  So just follow your gut, you will know, you may not want to hear it, or believe it, but they will not come out and tell you, until they are ready to move on, and then they still may  not want to let you go.

I'd like to thank you all, for being so open and frank. I think we are all learning something from each other.

So can we just cover the line in bold above:

... ." and then they still may not want to let you go". WHY? Besides being "crazy" sick.

Surely if they've already done this to us, we would have already been hurt. WHY hurt us more?

It's not about hurting you. If they cared about that, than empathy wouldn't be their missing characteristic like it is. It's not about you, it's about them. People don't get involved with a borderline or stay with one unless you yourself have certain characteristic deficits. For me, like other's it's a sense of healthy self worth and self esteem. I don't feel like I have a deficit of either but it's there somewhere lurking. The idealization phase where they hook you is less about how amazing they are and more about how amazing they make YOU feel about yourself. When someone is telling you how much you helped them, when they are saying how your physical chemistry is better than anyone they have ever known, when they tell you you saved them, you are soul mates, etc they are filling all the sub conscience deficits that plague you. In essence, they make you whole. But it's not real. You see, when you don't have these healthy feelings that come from within your own core, you rely for external affirmation to feel worthwhile. It's that same pathology, of lack of self worth that allows us to constantly let them back into our lives. Their manipulation may be filtered by our brain, but it's music to our soul. It's intoxicating. And they know it. It's why when you drop them they turn back to phase 1 immediately. And thus the cycle continues. They will not let you go because you once served as a drug to them as well. A narcissistic supply of affection, obedience, and a fuel to their needs for adulation and a support to their false grandiosity. Each time they come back has nothing to do with the fact they have hurt you. It has to do with the fact that at that moment they lack in their supply and they test you to see if they can extract a little more. When you run dry or something better comes along, you are forgotten. This is why it's imperative to build yourself from within and never fall for their games. Whatever ways you may lack prior to meeting them, they will create twice the number by the time they leave. My ex even verbally communicated this to me when I broke things off with her. She told me "I'm not done with you yet" cryptic, but also the truth. The truth is this type of abuse, especially anything past round one is not their fault. Abuse of this kind is a choice. And if you subject yourself to it, you have made the wrong decision. They are not capable of love as you would define it. Just ask them to define it sometime. They will give a nonsensical answer or have nothing to say. That's because they can't love you the way you love them. If they could, reciprocity, balance, respect and mutual care wouldn't have been missing since day one. You may think it was there but if you do a little real inventory, you'll see it may have been verbally communicated but rarely put into action. We were too distracted to notice. So whatever you do, don't fool yourself into thinking she can't let go because somehow she loves you. The only way for this to be true is if love in the above statement were defined as "needs you to love and adore me so I can control you, manipulate you, get what I want from you and then be the one to dump you so that in your struggle to make sense of it all I get a parting bonus of watching you crumble to remind me how powerful and wonderful I really am."

[SlyQQ]

The thing is, it is not really cheating to say someone is cheating because they sleep with someone else this is way to one dimensional If your partner is BPD all they need is a reson to sleep with someone else if your partner has EVER been angry with you there is a good chance it has happened but that is so far from the point it is really not funny, the thing is you are judging by your standards not theirs an scince they have immense difficulties in seeing anything other than from there viewpoint your only real out is to say go for it but dont be suprised if you lose me which may well happen ces't la BPD

[Lucky One]

The only way for this to be true is if love in the above statement were defined as "needs you to love and adore me so I can control you, manipulate you, get what I want from you and then be the one to dump you so that in your struggle to make sense of it all I get a parting bonus of watching you crumble to remind me how powerful and wonderful I really am."

So, do they ever feel hurt - do they ever crumble - do they ever cry - when we tell them "Enough is Enough" !

Or are their tears, I've seen them (the tears), also a technique they use to "keep us blind to what they are doing" - the strange things, including the actual or alleged infidelities and lies.

[willtimeheal]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

[Lucky One]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

And, then they give us the "Silent Treatment". To prove What. Or to achieve, what.

Until we agree with them - that we are guilty - even when we're not!

Wow. This is quite scary - brainwashing par excellence!

[Trollvaaken]

My mother is a uBPD and she overshares with me. She is married to my father and has had a few lovers some of which she unfortunately introduced me to.

Basically, she told me that because my father was no longer interested in her sexually (and because everything is my father's fault - duh), that she needs to feel desired and like a woman again and that is her justification for seeing other men. Some of these men have been downright crazy too. My mother was recently bullied out of her job and forced into early retirement. This reinforced her view of herself as a victim, and now she keeps saying: "I am sick of being nice and naive, I am just going to do stuff for me from now on."

The point is, I think as long as she is the "victim", she can get away with whatever selfish thing she wants.

[DazedAndConfusedinNC]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

[vortex of confusion]

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

That is my experience as well. It seems like he is a perpetual victim. Everything is his fault. He is a terrible husband. I feel like the one that is a monster most of the time because I dare to ask him to help around the house or be a responsible adult that is the father of 4 children. I am afraid to ask him for anything or say anything to him about much of anything because he gets defensive and acts like a wounded child.

[DazedAndConfusedinNC]

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

That is my experience as well. It seems like he is a perpetual victim. Everything is his fault. He is a terrible husband. I feel like the one that is a monster most of the time because I dare to ask him to help around the house or be a responsible adult that is the father of 4 children. I am afraid to ask him for anything or say anything to him about much of anything because he gets defensive and acts like a wounded child.

I did always tell her that I couldn't talk to her, because she would either explode or get defensive. There were times when we could talk things through, but they were rare and inconsistent.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only that's seen that behavior.

[willtimeheal]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

I was blamed for everything. When I "fixed" everything that was wrong with me and gave her everything she wanted she still found a way to leave me. This time it was I was  trying to make her be someone she wasn't. what the heck?  All I asked was to be considered and respected. To be a priority in her life. I guess that was too much. She would ask me for my advice and j would give it and then she would tell me she was tired of me lecturing her all the time... .this became the justification for her leaving me for the replacement that she had been seeing all along.

[anxiety5]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

I was blamed for everything. When I "fixed" everything that was wrong with me and gave her everything she wanted she still found a way to leave me. This time it was I was  trying to make her be someone she wasn't. what the heck?  All I asked was to be considered and respected. To be a priority in her life. I guess that was too much. She would ask me for my advice and j would give it and then she would tell me she was tired of me lecturing her all the time... .this became the justification for her leaving me for the replacement that she had been seeing all along.

For your own benefit you must stop using logic to validate their behavior. Not only will that fail, the rhetorical questions you ask yourself of how, or why will further confuse you as your brain searches for plausible answers. There is a pathology behind what they do.

Here is your above scenario in the mindset of this pathology with logic applied in a satire scenario (to bridge the gap between the way she thinks and you think)

You are dating someone with core wounds that stunted their emotional development. Stuck as children they often don't have adult mature conceptual skills such as accountability. They were neglected as children in some capacity. Even if simply not shown the right affection their needs were unmet and this made them feel shame and unworthy. When she does something wrong, she doesn't feel guilt for messing up that situation. Instead her emotions quantify it into shame. If she does wrong, she is wrong. And this triggers feelings of shame. that are so painful, her defenses rather than feel that will instead BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING. These unmet needs as children left her chasing after a parent or yearning for affection. At an age unable to grasp concepts like abuse or able to process the fact her parents may not be the heroes they are to all of us at that age, she still loves them. She now associates this perpetual deficit and yearning as love. Because it feels like love, because being neglected as a child chasing the affection of a parent we loved, feels like love. Her undertones in adulthood still yearn for this eternal hunger she can't really put a finger on. She's needy, she's a victim, save her. All this is left over from childhood. But, WHEN YOU FIX EVERYTHING AND GIVE HER EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS. You actually make this feeling of yearning go away. Meeting her needs, giving her affection makes all those deficits disappear. But this person is not based in logic, but emotion. That is her driving force. And her emotions no longer feel what she associates to love because the yearning is gone. To her she can't connect these dots, see you're doing all the right stuff, she only pays attention to her feelings and they say suddenly she doesn't feel that way anymore. She has such core trauma though her needs are actually a black hole of pain that can never be filled. YOU TOLD HER YOU NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED AND RESPECTED. Imagine if your house was burning down. You are standing outside, frantically trying to call 911 and your girlfriend comes up to you and says, I need to go to the mall right now can you drive me? What would you do? You'd turn to her, with temper raging and put her in her place. How dare she suggest anything at a time like this! Can't she see this crisis you must deal with! What is wrong with her?  She is so focused on filling her core wounds. Her black hole of deficit. To mitigate a pain that is with her constantly yet she can't identify the source. So hyper focused on herself, she is much like the person calling 911 in this scenario. She has so much to do, and it's always a crisis. And you simply asking for respect and having your needs met to her is as ridiculous as the scenario above, being asked for a ride to the mall as your house burns down. She is insulted by it. Won't acknowledge it. And has spent a life time tending to this same scenario, focused on putting out that fire for so long, she hasn't even developed the skills necessary to even understand your needs and therefore she lacks empathy. How can someone understand someone else when they are always focused on themselves? In essence, she is ALWAYS that person whose house is burning down and you are ALWAYS the person asking her to go to the mall while she tries to call 911. Your only chance to get noticed is to give up your needs for the mall, grab a hose and help her put out the fire. That is of course until you realize it's impossible to extinguish. How can anyone in this scenario make you A PRIORITY IN THEIR LIFE? She's dated enough people to understand that all her boyfriends inevitably become the person who ask for a ride to the mall while she is busy trying to put out the fire. She doesn't have time to grieve, it's next man up! Hoping each time this will be the person that can extinguish it and will just focus on it 24x7 never turning to ask for a ride to the mall. So when someone attentive comes along, she gives him a shot to see if he is the answer. But this fire, it's raging, and she's tired of it. She wants it out. YOU have no idea what it's like to be her. To deal with this fire. All day, everyday. (victimization) and with needs this important she has the permission to seek help wherever it comes from (entitlement) And the second she ever agrees to drive you to the mall? She will lose control of the fire. Turn her head for one split second and the house will collapse (lose her identity) and that loss of control and guaranteed annihilation is intolerable to her. Her only chance is to control all the people around her, direct orders to help put out this fire. She gets anxiety when anyone so much as turns their head from the flames. She intuitively can read when someone is about to drop the hose and quit. So much so she will have the next person lined up to take over your duties and get the fire under control. Her entire life that phone will keep ringing and for eternity she will wait for the person to come along that can put out that fire.

[guy4caligirl]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

I was blamed for everything. When I "fixed" everything that was wrong with me and gave her everything she wanted she still found a way to leave me. This time it was I was  trying to make her be someone she wasn't. what the heck?  All I asked was to be considered and respected. To be a priority in her life. I guess that was too much. She would ask me for my advice and j would give it and then she would tell me she was tired of me lecturing her all the time... .this became the justification for her leaving me for the replacement that she had been seeing all along.

For your own benefit you must stop using logic to validate their behavior. Not only will that fail, the rhetorical questions you ask yourself of how, or why will further confuse you as your brain searches for plausible answers. There is a pathology behind what they do.

Here is your above scenario in the mindset of this pathology with logic applied in a satire scenario (to bridge the gap between the way she thinks and you think)

You are dating someone with core wounds that stunted their emotional development. Stuck as children they often don't have adult mature conceptual skills such as accountability. They were neglected as children in some capacity. Even if simply not shown the right affection their needs were unmet and this made them feel shame and unworthy. When she does something wrong, she doesn't feel guilt for messing up that situation. Instead her emotions quantify it into shame. If she does wrong, she is wrong. And this triggers feelings of shame. that are so painful, her defenses rather than feel that will instead BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING. These unmet needs as children left her chasing after a parent or yearning for affection. At an age unable to grasp concepts like abuse or able to process the fact her parents may not be the heroes they are to all of us at that age, she still loves them. She now associates this perpetual deficit and yearning as love. Because it feels like love, because being neglected as a child chasing the affection of a parent we loved, feels like love. Her undertones in adulthood still yearn for this eternal hunger she can't really put a finger on. She's needy, she's a victim, save her. All this is left over from childhood. But, WHEN YOU FIX EVERYTHING AND GIVE HER EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS. You actually make this feeling of yearning go away. Meeting her needs, giving her affection makes all those deficits disappear. But this person is not based in logic, but emotion. That is her driving force. And her emotions no longer feel what she associates to love because the yearning is gone. To her she can't connect these dots, see you're doing all the right stuff, she only pays attention to her feelings and they say suddenly she doesn't feel that way anymore. She has such core trauma though her needs are actually a black hole of pain that can never be filled. YOU TOLD HER YOU NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED AND RESPECTED. Imagine if your house was burning down. You are standing outside, frantically trying to call 911 and your girlfriend comes up to you and says, I need to go to the mall right now can you drive me? What would you do? You'd turn to her, with temper raging and put her in her place. How dare she suggest anything at a time like this! Can't she see this crisis you must deal with! What is wrong with her?  She is so focused on filling her core wounds. Her black hole of deficit. To mitigate a pain that is with her constantly yet she can't identify the source. So hyper focused on herself, she is much like the person calling 911 in this scenario. She has so much to do, and it's always a crisis. And you simply asking for respect and having your needs met to her is as ridiculous as the scenario above, being asked for a ride to the mall as your house burns down. She is insulted by it. Won't acknowledge it. And has spent a life time tending to this same scenario, focused on putting out that fire for so long, she hasn't even developed the skills necessary to even understand your needs and therefore she lacks empathy. How can someone understand someone else when they are always focused on themselves? In essence, she is ALWAYS that person whose house is burning down and you are ALWAYS the person asking her to go to the mall while she tries to call 911. Your only chance to get noticed is to give up your needs for the mall, grab a hose and help her put out the fire. That is of course until you realize it's impossible to extinguish. How can anyone in this scenario make you A PRIORITY IN THEIR LIFE? She's dated enough people to understand that all her boyfriends inevitably become the person who ask for a ride to the mall while she is busy trying to put out the fire. She doesn't have time to grieve, it's next man up! Hoping each time this will be the person that can extinguish it and will just focus on it 24x7 never turning to ask for a ride to the mall. So when someone attentive comes along, she gives him a shot to see if he is the answer. But this fire, it's raging, and she's tired of it. She wants it out. YOU have no idea what it's like to be her. To deal with this fire. All day, everyday. (victimization) and with needs this important she has the permission to seek help wherever it comes from (entitlement) And the second she ever agrees to drive you to the mall? She will lose control of the fire. Turn her head for one split second and the house will collapse (lose her identity) and that loss of control and guaranteed annihilation is intolerable to her. Her only chance is to control all the people around her, direct orders to help put out this fire. She gets anxiety when anyone so much as turns their head from the flames. She intuitively can read when someone is about to drop the hose and quit. So much so she will have the next person lined up to take over your duties and get the fire under control. Her entire life that phone will keep ringing and for eternity she will wait for the person to come along that can put out that fire.

VERY WELL put... .  THANK YOU ANXITY 5 !

[anxiety5]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

I was blamed for everything. When I "fixed" everything that was wrong with me and gave her everything she wanted she still found a way to leave me. This time it was I was  trying to make her be someone she wasn't. what the heck?  All I asked was to be considered and respected. To be a priority in her life. I guess that was too much. She would ask me for my advice and j would give it and then she would tell me she was tired of me lecturing her all the time... .this became the justification for her leaving me for the replacement that she had been seeing all along.

For your own benefit you must stop using logic to validate their behavior. Not only will that fail, the rhetorical questions you ask yourself of how, or why will further confuse you as your brain searches for plausible answers. There is a pathology behind what they do.

Here is your above scenario in the mindset of this pathology with logic applied in a satire scenario (to bridge the gap between the way she thinks and you think)

You are dating someone with core wounds that stunted their emotional development. Stuck as children they often don't have adult mature conceptual skills such as accountability. They were neglected as children in some capacity. Even if simply not shown the right affection their needs were unmet and this made them feel shame and unworthy. When she does something wrong, she doesn't feel guilt for messing up that situation. Instead her emotions quantify it into shame. If she does wrong, she is wrong. And this triggers feelings of shame. that are so painful, her defenses rather than feel that will instead BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING. These unmet needs as children left her chasing after a parent or yearning for affection. At an age unable to grasp concepts like abuse or able to process the fact her parents may not be the heroes they are to all of us at that age, she still loves them. She now associates this perpetual deficit and yearning as love. Because it feels like love, because being neglected as a child chasing the affection of a parent we loved, feels like love. Her undertones in adulthood still yearn for this eternal hunger she can't really put a finger on. She's needy, she's a victim, save her. All this is left over from childhood. But, WHEN YOU FIX EVERYTHING AND GIVE HER EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS. You actually make this feeling of yearning go away. Meeting her needs, giving her affection makes all those deficits disappear. But this person is not based in logic, but emotion. That is her driving force. And her emotions no longer feel what she associates to love because the yearning is gone. To her she can't connect these dots, see you're doing all the right stuff, she only pays attention to her feelings and they say suddenly she doesn't feel that way anymore. She has such core trauma though her needs are actually a black hole of pain that can never be filled. YOU TOLD HER YOU NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED AND RESPECTED. Imagine if your house was burning down. You are standing outside, frantically trying to call 911 and your girlfriend comes up to you and says, I need to go to the mall right now can you drive me? What would you do? You'd turn to her, with temper raging and put her in her place. How dare she suggest anything at a time like this! Can't she see this crisis you must deal with! What is wrong with her?  She is so focused on filling her core wounds. Her black hole of deficit. To mitigate a pain that is with her constantly yet she can't identify the source. So hyper focused on herself, she is much like the person calling 911 in this scenario. She has so much to do, and it's always a crisis. And you simply asking for respect and having your needs met to her is as ridiculous as the scenario above, being asked for a ride to the mall as your house burns down. She is insulted by it. Won't acknowledge it. And has spent a life time tending to this same scenario, focused on putting out that fire for so long, she hasn't even developed the skills necessary to even understand your needs and therefore she lacks empathy. How can someone understand someone else when they are always focused on themselves? In essence, she is ALWAYS that person whose house is burning down and you are ALWAYS the person asking her to go to the mall while she tries to call 911. Your only chance to get noticed is to give up your needs for the mall, grab a hose and help her put out the fire. That is of course until you realize it's impossible to extinguish. How can anyone in this scenario make you A PRIORITY IN THEIR LIFE? She's dated enough people to understand that all her boyfriends inevitably become the person who ask for a ride to the mall while she is busy trying to put out the fire. She doesn't have time to grieve, it's next man up! Hoping each time this will be the person that can extinguish it and will just focus on it 24x7 never turning to ask for a ride to the mall. So when someone attentive comes along, she gives him a shot to see if he is the answer. But this fire, it's raging, and she's tired of it. She wants it out. YOU have no idea what it's like to be her. To deal with this fire. All day, everyday. (victimization) and with needs this important she has the permission to seek help wherever it comes from (entitlement) And the second she ever agrees to drive you to the mall? She will lose control of the fire. Turn her head for one split second and the house will collapse (lose her identity) and that loss of control and guaranteed annihilation is intolerable to her. Her only chance is to control all the people around her, direct orders to help put out this fire. She gets anxiety when anyone so much as turns their head from the flames. She intuitively can read when someone is about to drop the hose and quit. So much so she will have the next person lined up to take over your duties and get the fire under control. Her entire life that phone will keep ringing and for eternity she will wait for the person to come along that can put out that fire.

VERY WELL put... .  THANK YOU ANXITY 5 !

One last thing to note. She will never find someone who can extinguish it. When she finally gets tired of fighting it and realizes there are less and less people lined up to help her fight it. When she realizes that the last dozen people all were identical carbon copies of each other that's the only chance she will ever have to put it out. And long and arduous will that burden be when she realizes that she is the one who has kept the fire burning all along.

[guy4caligirl]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

I was blamed for everything. When I "fixed" everything that was wrong with me and gave her everything she wanted she still found a way to leave me. This time it was I was  trying to make her be someone she wasn't. what the heck?  All I asked was to be considered and respected. To be a priority in her life. I guess that was too much. She would ask me for my advice and j would give it and then she would tell me she was tired of me lecturing her all the time... .this became the justification for her leaving me for the replacement that she had been seeing all along.

For your own benefit you must stop using logic to validate their behavior. Not only will that fail, the rhetorical questions you ask yourself of how, or why will further confuse you as your brain searches for plausible answers. There is a pathology behind what they do.

Here is your above scenario in the mindset of this pathology with logic applied in a satire scenario (to bridge the gap between the way she thinks and you think)

You are dating someone with core wounds that stunted their emotional development. Stuck as children they often don't have adult mature conceptual skills such as accountability. They were neglected as children in some capacity. Even if simply not shown the right affection their needs were unmet and this made them feel shame and unworthy. When she does something wrong, she doesn't feel guilt for messing up that situation. Instead her emotions quantify it into shame. If she does wrong, she is wrong. And this triggers feelings of shame. that are so painful, her defenses rather than feel that will instead BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING. These unmet needs as children left her chasing after a parent or yearning for affection. At an age unable to grasp concepts like abuse or able to process the fact her parents may not be the heroes they are to all of us at that age, she still loves them. She now associates this perpetual deficit and yearning as love. Because it feels like love, because being neglected as a child chasing the affection of a parent we loved, feels like love. Her undertones in adulthood still yearn for this eternal hunger she can't really put a finger on. She's needy, she's a victim, save her. All this is left over from childhood. But, WHEN YOU FIX EVERYTHING AND GIVE HER EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS. You actually make this feeling of yearning go away. Meeting her needs, giving her affection makes all those deficits disappear. But this person is not based in logic, but emotion. That is her driving force. And her emotions no longer feel what she associates to love because the yearning is gone. To her she can't connect these dots, see you're doing all the right stuff, she only pays attention to her feelings and they say suddenly she doesn't feel that way anymore. She has such core trauma though her needs are actually a black hole of pain that can never be filled. YOU TOLD HER YOU NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED AND RESPECTED. Imagine if your house was burning down. You are standing outside, frantically trying to call 911 and your girlfriend comes up to you and says, I need to go to the mall right now can you drive me? What would you do? You'd turn to her, with temper raging and put her in her place. How dare she suggest anything at a time like this! Can't she see this crisis you must deal with! What is wrong with her?  She is so focused on filling her core wounds. Her black hole of deficit. To mitigate a pain that is with her constantly yet she can't identify the source. So hyper focused on herself, she is much like the person calling 911 in this scenario. She has so much to do, and it's always a crisis. And you simply asking for respect and having your needs met to her is as ridiculous as the scenario above, being asked for a ride to the mall as your house burns down. She is insulted by it. Won't acknowledge it. And has spent a life time tending to this same scenario, focused on putting out that fire for so long, she hasn't even developed the skills necessary to even understand your needs and therefore she lacks empathy. How can someone understand someone else when they are always focused on themselves? In essence, she is ALWAYS that person whose house is burning down and you are ALWAYS the person asking her to go to the mall while she tries to call 911. Your only chance to get noticed is to give up your needs for the mall, grab a hose and help her put out the fire. That is of course until you realize it's impossible to extinguish. How can anyone in this scenario make you A PRIORITY IN THEIR LIFE? She's dated enough people to understand that all her boyfriends inevitably become the person who ask for a ride to the mall while she is busy trying to put out the fire. She doesn't have time to grieve, it's next man up! Hoping each time this will be the person that can extinguish it and will just focus on it 24x7 never turning to ask for a ride to the mall. So when someone attentive comes along, she gives him a shot to see if he is the answer. But this fire, it's raging, and she's tired of it. She wants it out. YOU have no idea what it's like to be her. To deal with this fire. All day, everyday. (victimization) and with needs this important she has the permission to seek help wherever it comes from (entitlement) And the second she ever agrees to drive you to the mall? She will lose control of the fire. Turn her head for one split second and the house will collapse (lose her identity) and that loss of control and guaranteed annihilation is intolerable to her. Her only chance is to control all the people around her, direct orders to help put out this fire. She gets anxiety when anyone so much as turns their head from the flames. She intuitively can read when someone is about to drop the hose and quit. So much so she will have the next person lined up to take over your duties and get the fire under control. Her entire life that phone will keep ringing and for eternity she will wait for the person to come along that can put out that fire.

Hi anxiety 5

What do you think about the following ?

As you mention above  they are in thirst for affection looking to replace what they lost in their childhood from their parents and thereafter growing up , for a fact I got to know the parents of my ex BPD GF they don't care about her still and she knows they don't but she loves them .

My question is have you experience when they give you all that grief while in the relation ,the episodes, the anger, the doubt, making walk on egg shell . I had problem giving her affections hugs you name it ,I felt anger not empathy and how would you be able to give them attention and love after you got showered with insults ?

At that time , could that be a significant factor into a healthier relation for other to hear about this , and hug them instead while in episodes and remind them that you are here to protect and love them ? I remember now my ex asking me to do that once or twice .

[DazedAndConfusedinNC]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

I was blamed for everything. When I "fixed" everything that was wrong with me and gave her everything she wanted she still found a way to leave me. This time it was I was  trying to make her be someone she wasn't. what the heck?  All I asked was to be considered and respected. To be a priority in her life. I guess that was too much. She would ask me for my advice and j would give it and then she would tell me she was tired of me lecturing her all the time... .this became the justification for her leaving me for the replacement that she had been seeing all along.

For your own benefit you must stop using logic to validate their behavior. Not only will that fail, the rhetorical questions you ask yourself of how, or why will further confuse you as your brain searches for plausible answers. There is a pathology behind what they do.

Here is your above scenario in the mindset of this pathology with logic applied in a satire scenario (to bridge the gap between the way she thinks and you think)

You are dating someone with core wounds that stunted their emotional development. Stuck as children they often don't have adult mature conceptual skills such as accountability. They were neglected as children in some capacity. Even if simply not shown the right affection their needs were unmet and this made them feel shame and unworthy. When she does something wrong, she doesn't feel guilt for messing up that situation. Instead her emotions quantify it into shame. If she does wrong, she is wrong. And this triggers feelings of shame. that are so painful, her defenses rather than feel that will instead BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING. These unmet needs as children left her chasing after a parent or yearning for affection. At an age unable to grasp concepts like abuse or able to process the fact her parents may not be the heroes they are to all of us at that age, she still loves them. She now associates this perpetual deficit and yearning as love. Because it feels like love, because being neglected as a child chasing the affection of a parent we loved, feels like love. Her undertones in adulthood still yearn for this eternal hunger she can't really put a finger on. She's needy, she's a victim, save her. All this is left over from childhood. But, WHEN YOU FIX EVERYTHING AND GIVE HER EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS. You actually make this feeling of yearning go away. Meeting her needs, giving her affection makes all those deficits disappear. But this person is not based in logic, but emotion. That is her driving force. And her emotions no longer feel what she associates to love because the yearning is gone. To her she can't connect these dots, see you're doing all the right stuff, she only pays attention to her feelings and they say suddenly she doesn't feel that way anymore. She has such core trauma though her needs are actually a black hole of pain that can never be filled. YOU TOLD HER YOU NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED AND RESPECTED. Imagine if your house was burning down. You are standing outside, frantically trying to call 911 and your girlfriend comes up to you and says, I need to go to the mall right now can you drive me? What would you do? You'd turn to her, with temper raging and put her in her place. How dare she suggest anything at a time like this! Can't she see this crisis you must deal with! What is wrong with her?  She is so focused on filling her core wounds. Her black hole of deficit. To mitigate a pain that is with her constantly yet she can't identify the source. So hyper focused on herself, she is much like the person calling 911 in this scenario. She has so much to do, and it's always a crisis. And you simply asking for respect and having your needs met to her is as ridiculous as the scenario above, being asked for a ride to the mall as your house burns down. She is insulted by it. Won't acknowledge it. And has spent a life time tending to this same scenario, focused on putting out that fire for so long, she hasn't even developed the skills necessary to even understand your needs and therefore she lacks empathy. How can someone understand someone else when they are always focused on themselves? In essence, she is ALWAYS that person whose house is burning down and you are ALWAYS the person asking her to go to the mall while she tries to call 911. Your only chance to get noticed is to give up your needs for the mall, grab a hose and help her put out the fire. That is of course until you realize it's impossible to extinguish. How can anyone in this scenario make you A PRIORITY IN THEIR LIFE? She's dated enough people to understand that all her boyfriends inevitably become the person who ask for a ride to the mall while she is busy trying to put out the fire. She doesn't have time to grieve, it's next man up! Hoping each time this will be the person that can extinguish it and will just focus on it 24x7 never turning to ask for a ride to the mall. So when someone attentive comes along, she gives him a shot to see if he is the answer. But this fire, it's raging, and she's tired of it. She wants it out. YOU have no idea what it's like to be her. To deal with this fire. All day, everyday. (victimization) and with needs this important she has the permission to seek help wherever it comes from (entitlement) And the second she ever agrees to drive you to the mall? She will lose control of the fire. Turn her head for one split second and the house will collapse (lose her identity) and that loss of control and guaranteed annihilation is intolerable to her. Her only chance is to control all the people around her, direct orders to help put out this fire. She gets anxiety when anyone so much as turns their head from the flames. She intuitively can read when someone is about to drop the hose and quit. So much so she will have the next person lined up to take over your duties and get the fire under control. Her entire life that phone will keep ringing and for eternity she will wait for the person to come along that can put out that fire.

VERY WELL put... .  THANK YOU ANXITY 5 !

One last thing to note. She will never find someone who can extinguish it. When she finally gets tired of fighting it and realizes there are less and less people lined up to help her fight it. When she realizes that the last dozen people all were identical carbon copies of each other that's the only chance she will ever have to put it out. And long and arduous will that burden be when she realizes that she is the one who has kept the fire burning all along.

Anxiety, you're awesome!

[anxiety5]

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

That is my experience as well. It seems like he is a perpetual victim. Everything is his fault. He is a terrible husband. I feel like the one that is a monster most of the time because I dare to ask him to help around the house or be a responsible adult that is the father of 4 children. I am afraid to ask him for anything or say anything to him about much of anything because he gets defensive and acts like a wounded child.

I did always tell her that I couldn't talk to her, because she would either explode or get defensive. There were times when we could talk things through, but they were rare and inconsistent.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only that's seen that behavior.

This resonates SO much with me. I have never experienced anything like my ex's defense mechanism. I remember the first 6 months together. I know a lot of stereotypical "guys" are more introverted, and probably just go with the flow. I've always been fairly decent communicating and I learned a long long long time ago, I hate leaving anything unresolved. I don't sleep well, I analyze it, and it just occupies my mind until whatever conflict is over. This woman made me reconsider what I had previously viewed as one of my better characteristics. I remember trying to articulate things, or simply have a conversation rather than ignore the elephant in the room. Her body language was enough to make you enraged. She wouldn't make eye contact, and give every opposite physical indicator that one would exude to imply they are listening to what you are saying. She would never let me complete my thought. It was deflected, or if it really resonated she would shut it down and leave the room. She would victimize herself "You just beat me down!" or belittle me "I'm overwhelmed. You don't have a child. You have nothing going on in your life. You won't ever get it." (Meanwhile I'm seeing her daily, staying over nights and devoting 100% of my time to her and her son while she makes this comment) I would lose my temper 50% of the time and leave, something I know isn't affective with these people but what were my options? The second I backed down to her knowing full well she was the agitator that started whatever conflict, I was trying to resolve alone, that would set a precedent moving forward that would emasculate me into a punching bag. It was incidents like these that led me to the conclusion something was wrong and through that search, to this website.

You simply can't win with these people. If you say nothing, I don't see how one could possibly NOT build resentment. You ignore critical comments and a rage episode and then are expected to smile and clean the dishes after.  Maybe for a little while, but that's no way to live. I was devoted to her. I bought into her being overwhelmed and "anticipating her needs" but not being able to even discuss how I felt when she berated me, defeated any motivation I had to continue helping her.

I'm trying to remain positive in the wake of all this. I will say this: Imagine having a 2 hour commute to work and a 2 hour commute from work each day. That becomes your life and you get used to it. But if you get a new job and next time around it's 10 minutes each way, you are not only elated, but you have an appreciation for this care free manageable commute that would only be possible if you had the less desirable one first.

In this way, I learned to communicate even better. I learned to be super empathetic to other's words. To carefully communicate mine in a non confrontational way but still get my message across. And when I meet someone new who is easy, or hell, "normal" I will be THAT much more appreciative of them because of the hell I went through with the ex. In that sense, I appreciate her. She made my next relationship better without even intending too.

[anxiety5]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

I was blamed for everything. When I "fixed" everything that was wrong with me and gave her everything she wanted she still found a way to leave me. This time it was I was  trying to make her be someone she wasn't. what the heck?  All I asked was to be considered and respected. To be a priority in her life. I guess that was too much. She would ask me for my advice and j would give it and then she would tell me she was tired of me lecturing her all the time... .this became the justification for her leaving me for the replacement that she had been seeing all along.

For your own benefit you must stop using logic to validate their behavior. Not only will that fail, the rhetorical questions you ask yourself of how, or why will further confuse you as your brain searches for plausible answers. There is a pathology behind what they do.

Here is your above scenario in the mindset of this pathology with logic applied in a satire scenario (to bridge the gap between the way she thinks and you think)

You are dating someone with core wounds that stunted their emotional development. Stuck as children they often don't have adult mature conceptual skills such as accountability. They were neglected as children in some capacity. Even if simply not shown the right affection their needs were unmet and this made them feel shame and unworthy. When she does something wrong, she doesn't feel guilt for messing up that situation. Instead her emotions quantify it into shame. If she does wrong, she is wrong. And this triggers feelings of shame. that are so painful, her defenses rather than feel that will instead BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING. These unmet needs as children left her chasing after a parent or yearning for affection. At an age unable to grasp concepts like abuse or able to process the fact her parents may not be the heroes they are to all of us at that age, she still loves them. She now associates this perpetual deficit and yearning as love. Because it feels like love, because being neglected as a child chasing the affection of a parent we loved, feels like love. Her undertones in adulthood still yearn for this eternal hunger she can't really put a finger on. She's needy, she's a victim, save her. All this is left over from childhood. But, WHEN YOU FIX EVERYTHING AND GIVE HER EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS. You actually make this feeling of yearning go away. Meeting her needs, giving her affection makes all those deficits disappear. But this person is not based in logic, but emotion. That is her driving force. And her emotions no longer feel what she associates to love because the yearning is gone. To her she can't connect these dots, see you're doing all the right stuff, she only pays attention to her feelings and they say suddenly she doesn't feel that way anymore. She has such core trauma though her needs are actually a black hole of pain that can never be filled. YOU TOLD HER YOU NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED AND RESPECTED. Imagine if your house was burning down. You are standing outside, frantically trying to call 911 and your girlfriend comes up to you and says, I need to go to the mall right now can you drive me? What would you do? You'd turn to her, with temper raging and put her in her place. How dare she suggest anything at a time like this! Can't she see this crisis you must deal with! What is wrong with her?  She is so focused on filling her core wounds. Her black hole of deficit. To mitigate a pain that is with her constantly yet she can't identify the source. So hyper focused on herself, she is much like the person calling 911 in this scenario. She has so much to do, and it's always a crisis. And you simply asking for respect and having your needs met to her is as ridiculous as the scenario above, being asked for a ride to the mall as your house burns down. She is insulted by it. Won't acknowledge it. And has spent a life time tending to this same scenario, focused on putting out that fire for so long, she hasn't even developed the skills necessary to even understand your needs and therefore she lacks empathy. How can someone understand someone else when they are always focused on themselves? In essence, she is ALWAYS that person whose house is burning down and you are ALWAYS the person asking her to go to the mall while she tries to call 911. Your only chance to get noticed is to give up your needs for the mall, grab a hose and help her put out the fire. That is of course until you realize it's impossible to extinguish. How can anyone in this scenario make you A PRIORITY IN THEIR LIFE? She's dated enough people to understand that all her boyfriends inevitably become the person who ask for a ride to the mall while she is busy trying to put out the fire. She doesn't have time to grieve, it's next man up! Hoping each time this will be the person that can extinguish it and will just focus on it 24x7 never turning to ask for a ride to the mall. So when someone attentive comes along, she gives him a shot to see if he is the answer. But this fire, it's raging, and she's tired of it. She wants it out. YOU have no idea what it's like to be her. To deal with this fire. All day, everyday. (victimization) and with needs this important she has the permission to seek help wherever it comes from (entitlement) And the second she ever agrees to drive you to the mall? She will lose control of the fire. Turn her head for one split second and the house will collapse (lose her identity) and that loss of control and guaranteed annihilation is intolerable to her. Her only chance is to control all the people around her, direct orders to help put out this fire. She gets anxiety when anyone so much as turns their head from the flames. She intuitively can read when someone is about to drop the hose and quit. So much so she will have the next person lined up to take over your duties and get the fire under control. Her entire life that phone will keep ringing and for eternity she will wait for the person to come along that can put out that fire.

Hi anxiety 5

What do you think about the following ?

As you mention above  they are in thirst for affection looking to replace what they lost in their childhood from their parents and thereafter growing up , for a fact I got to know the parents of my ex BPD GF they don't care about her still and she knows they don't but she loves them .

My question is have you experience when they give you all that grief while in the relation ,the episodes, the anger, the doubt, making walk on egg shell . I had problem giving her affections hugs you name it ,I felt anger not empathy and how would you be able to give them attention and love after you got showered with insults ?

At that time , could that be a significant factor into a healthier relation for other to hear about this , and hug them instead while in episodes and remind them that you are here to protect and love them ? I remember now my ex asking me to do that once or twice .

I'm not a therapist so this question is tough to answer with certainty. My answers on here are often in depth, but based off my own situation so in that sense I feel I have the right to share them because I experienced them vs. using some BPD article to formulate a conclusion.

That being said, my guess would be no. That your affection could not have changed that situation. I recall several times during these episodes doing exactly what you say here. I would sense she was overwhelmed and go behind her as she did something at the kitchen counter and hug her from behind and give her a kiss on her neck and tell her it's ok, let me help whatever it is you need right now to do in order to feel better. She was rigid, wouldn't relax because of this. In fact I think she took that as invalidation. That I was making light of her "crisis" and in turn, it would lead to further belittling statements about "I have no idea!" "I can't help because I can't understand how overwhelmed she is" etc.  I once asked her when that happens, I know you think my response may not be the one you want. Can you tell me what you need from me when you feel that way? How else am I supposed to know? She told me to just give her space. Don't react to it and just leave her be. So I started doing that. There is always something to do, so when she was like that I'd just grab the keys and say, hey I'm going down to the grocery store to get a couple things, is there anything I can get for you?" When I'd get back she was usually more "centered" and sometimes would actually be better. The answer is to totally disengage. I did that for awhile but where it became intolerable was when due to that approach and the calm it produced, it's not like she was in treatment so that "pressure" or torment inside her would still build. Because I wasn't responding and giving her an outlet to get it out, it led to her rapidly devaluing me. Making terrible comments and criticisms. It got to a point where if I simply responded with "Why are you saying this? It's kind of rude, I'm trying my best." In a calm voice, I'd look over and she was quivering mad and would kick me out. That's when I realized there is no managing this. The only answer is to completely lose yourself, your wants, your needs, and agree to be abused. Or you can imply iron boundaries but in my estimation with mine, that would mean I'd be spending 99% of my time in another room, or sleeping somewhere else. My philosophy was simple. There are more good days than bad days. I will continue trying my very best. If despite this, it keeps trending bad, I'm done when over the period of 30 days we reach a point of more bad days than good days.  This is helpful too because you have the peace of mind of knowing, I did my best. No regrets. It's not me, it's the pathology of mental illness that failed.

[SlyQQ]

There is almost certainly a physological aspect to consider reinforcing the hopelessness of fixing things ( though it may help ) with love an affection

[guy4caligirl]

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

That is my experience as well. It seems like he is a perpetual victim. Everything is his fault. He is a terrible husband. I feel like the one that is a monster most of the time because I dare to ask him to help around the house or be a responsible adult that is the father of 4 children. I am afraid to ask him for anything or say anything to him about much of anything because he gets defensive and acts like a wounded child.

I did always tell her that I couldn't talk to her, because she would either explode or get defensive. There were times when we could talk things through, but they were rare and inconsistent.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only that's seen that behavior.

This resonates SO much with me. I have never experienced anything like my ex's defense mechanism. I remember the first 6 months together. I know a lot of stereotypical "guys" are more introverted, and probably just go with the flow. I've always been fairly decent communicating and I learned a long long long time ago, I hate leaving anything unresolved. I don't sleep well, I analyze it, and it just occupies my mind until whatever conflict is over. This woman made me reconsider what I had previously viewed as one of my better characteristics. I remember trying to articulate things, or simply have a conversation rather than ignore the elephant in the room. Her body language was enough to make you enraged. She wouldn't make eye contact, and give every opposite physical indicator that one would exude to imply they are listening to what you are saying. She would never let me complete my thought. It was deflected, or if it really resonated she would shut it down and leave the room. She would victimize herself "You just beat me down!" or belittle me "I'm overwhelmed. You don't have a child. You have nothing going on in your life. You won't ever get it." (Meanwhile I'm seeing her daily, staying over nights and devoting 100% of my time to her and her son while she makes this comment) I would lose my temper 50% of the time and leave, something I know isn't affective with these people but what were my options? The second I backed down to her knowing full well she was the agitator that started whatever conflict, I was trying to resolve alone, that would set a precedent moving forward that would emasculate me into a punching bag. It was incidents like these that led me to the conclusion something was wrong and through that search, to this website.

You simply can't win with these people. If you say nothing, I don't see how one could possibly NOT build resentment. You ignore critical comments and a rage episode and then are expected to smile and clean the dishes after.  Maybe for a little while, but that's no way to live. I was devoted to her. I bought into her being overwhelmed and "anticipating her needs" but not being able to even discuss how I felt when she berated me, defeated any motivation I had to continue helping her.

I'm trying to remain positive in the wake of all this. I will say this: Imagine having a 2 hour commute to work and a 2 hour commute from work each day. That becomes your life and you get used to it. But if you get a new job and next time around it's 10 minutes each way, you are not only elated, but you have an appreciation for this care free manageable commute that would only be possible if you had the less desirable one first.

In this way, I learned to communicate even better. I learned to be super empathetic to other's words. To carefully communicate mine in a non confrontational way but still get my message across. And when I meet someone new who is easy, or hell, "normal" I will be THAT much more appreciative of them because of the hell I went through with the ex. In that sense, I appreciate her. She made my next relationship better without even intending too.

Very well said ! thank you !

[BorisAcusio]

Here is what I have learned about the disorder... .a BPD doesn't think the do anything wrong. They create  a fantasy world a delusional world in their head that is not reality. This is where they live. Although in reality they do all these things to hurt us lie, cheat, abuse us, in their fantasy they twist it and it is us doing it to them... .they are the victim. It is how they cope. It they were ever to actually step outside the fantasy and "see" what they have done... .their path of destruction... .they could never handle it. They would self explode. So they actually believe the lies they say and create. They have to. It is how they survive.

Mine would almost always say that I blamed her for everything, that she couldn't do anything right and that she didn't know what I wanted. I'd be pretty clear about my expectations; they were actually pretty low. Have you heard similar things?

I was blamed for everything. When I "fixed" everything that was wrong with me and gave her everything she wanted she still found a way to leave me. This time it was I was  trying to make her be someone she wasn't. what the heck?  All I asked was to be considered and respected. To be a priority in her life. I guess that was too much. She would ask me for my advice and j would give it and then she would tell me she was tired of me lecturing her all the time... .this became the justification for her leaving me for the replacement that she had been seeing all along.

For your own benefit you must stop using logic to validate their behavior. Not only will that fail, the rhetorical questions you ask yourself of how, or why will further confuse you as your brain searches for plausible answers. There is a pathology behind what they do.

Here is your above scenario in the mindset of this pathology with logic applied in a satire scenario (to bridge the gap between the way she thinks and you think)

You are dating someone with core wounds that stunted their emotional development. Stuck as children they often don't have adult mature conceptual skills such as accountability. They were neglected as children in some capacity. Even if simply not shown the right affection their needs were unmet and this made them feel shame and unworthy. When she does something wrong, she doesn't feel guilt for messing up that situation. Instead her emotions quantify it into shame. If she does wrong, she is wrong. And this triggers feelings of shame. that are so painful, her defenses rather than feel that will instead BLAME YOU FOR EVERYTHING. These unmet needs as children left her chasing after a parent or yearning for affection. At an age unable to grasp concepts like abuse or able to process the fact her parents may not be the heroes they are to all of us at that age, she still loves them. She now associates this perpetual deficit and yearning as love. Because it feels like love, because being neglected as a child chasing the affection of a parent we loved, feels like love. Her undertones in adulthood still yearn for this eternal hunger she can't really put a finger on. She's needy, she's a victim, save her. All this is left over from childhood. But, WHEN YOU FIX EVERYTHING AND GIVE HER EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS. You actually make this feeling of yearning go away. Meeting her needs, giving her affection makes all those deficits disappear. But this person is not based in logic, but emotion. That is her driving force. And her emotions no longer feel what she associates to love because the yearning is gone. To her she can't connect these dots, see you're doing all the right stuff, she only pays attention to her feelings and they say suddenly she doesn't feel that way anymore. She has such core trauma though her needs are actually a black hole of pain that can never be filled. YOU TOLD HER YOU NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED AND RESPECTED. Imagine if your house was burning down. You are standing outside, frantically trying to call 911 and your girlfriend comes up to you and says, I need to go to the mall right now can you drive me? What would you do? You'd turn to her, with temper raging and put her in her place. How dare she suggest anything at a time like this! Can't she see this crisis you must deal with! What is wrong with her?  She is so focused on filling her core wounds. Her black hole of deficit. To mitigate a pain that is with her constantly yet she can't identify the source. So hyper focused on herself, she is much like the person calling 911 in this scenario. She has so much to do, and it's always a crisis. And you simply asking for respect and having your needs met to her is as ridiculous as the scenario above, being asked for a ride to the mall as your house burns down. She is insulted by it. Won't acknowledge it. And has spent a life time tending to this same scenario, focused on putting out that fire for so long, she hasn't even developed the skills necessary to even understand your needs and therefore she lacks empathy. How can someone understand someone else when they are always focused on themselves? In essence, she is ALWAYS that person whose house is burning down and you are ALWAYS the person asking her to go to the mall while she tries to call 911. Your only chance to get noticed is to give up your needs for the mall, grab a hose and help her put out the fire. That is of course until you realize it's impossible to extinguish. How can anyone in this scenario make you A PRIORITY IN THEIR LIFE? She's dated enough people to understand that all her boyfriends inevitably become the person who ask for a ride to the mall while she is busy trying to put out the fire. She doesn't have time to grieve, it's next man up! Hoping each time this will be the person that can extinguish it and will just focus on it 24x7 never turning to ask for a ride to the mall. So when someone attentive comes along, she gives him a shot to see if he is the answer. But this fire, it's raging, and she's tired of it. She wants it out. YOU have no idea what it's like to be her. To deal with this fire. All day, everyday. (victimization) and with needs this important she has the permission to seek help wherever it comes from (entitlement) And the second she ever agrees to drive you to the mall? She will lose control of the fire. Turn her head for one split second and the house will collapse (lose her identity) and that loss of control and guaranteed annihilation is intolerable to her. Her only chance is to control all the people around her, direct orders to help put out this fire. She gets anxiety when anyone so much as turns their head from the flames. She intuitively can read when someone is about to drop the hose and quit. So much so she will have the next person lined up to take over your duties and get the fire under control. Her entire life that phone will keep ringing and for eternity she will wait for the person to come along that can put out that fire.

Very well put, anxiety5.

[fred6]

That being said, my guess would be no. That your affection could not have changed that situation. I recall several times during these episodes doing exactly what you say here. I would sense she was overwhelmed and go behind her as she did something at the kitchen counter and hug her from behind and give her a kiss on her neck and tell her it's ok, let me help whatever it is you need right now to do in order to feel better. She was rigid, wouldn't relax because of this. In fact I think she took that as invalidation. That I was making light of her "crisis" and in turn, it would lead to further belittling statements about "I have no idea!"

^^^I have lived this so many times with my ex. Every time I hugged her, told her that I loved her, or asked to help, she had a look of hate and disgust on her face. When talking to her, I would tell her that I just don't understand what's wrong. Her reply would be, "I know you don't understand and you never will understand". So, yes it is a helpless feeling. But yet, with the type of person I am, I still tried to understand and still tried to help "fix" the problem. Bad idea, that only makes the problem worse in the long run.

No matter how much love, affection, understanding, or caring you show them, you will not change this situation. I mean maybe once or twice early in the relationship you make them feel bad and they may back down. But once it gets to certain point in the relationship, it's game over man. It's not easy, but in my opinion, at this point you should end the relationship and go NC. It's hard right now because I do miss her, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was when I was still living there and having to watch her go out and fcuk another guy with no remorse... .

[anxiety5]

That being said, my guess would be no. That your affection could not have changed that situation. I recall several times during these episodes doing exactly what you say here. I would sense she was overwhelmed and go behind her as she did something at the kitchen counter and hug her from behind and give her a kiss on her neck and tell her it's ok, let me help whatever it is you need right now to do in order to feel better. She was rigid, wouldn't relax because of this. In fact I think she took that as invalidation. That I was making light of her "crisis" and in turn, it would lead to further belittling statements about "I have no idea!"

^^^I have lived this so many times with my ex. Every time I hugged her, told her that I loved her, or asked to help, she had a look of hate and disgust on her face. When talking to her, I would tell her that I just don't understand what's wrong. Her reply would be, "I know you don't understand and you never will understand". So, yes it is a helpless feeling. But yet, with the type of person I am, I still tried to understand and still tried to help "fix" the problem. Bad idea, that only makes the problem worse in the long run.

No matter how much love, affection, understanding, or caring you show them, you will not change this situation. I mean maybe once or twice early in the relationship you make them feel bad and they may back down. But once it gets to certain point in the relationship, it's game over man. It's not easy, but in my opinion, at this point you should end the relationship and go NC. It's hard right now because I do miss her, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was when I was still living there and having to watch her go out and fcuk another guy with no remorse... .

Yep. My life = Your life. Same thing. It's amazing how stubborn Iam. I still thought I could maneuver through it somehow. For awhile, just leaving her be would work. In fact not saying anything to her, she would usually come out of it and feel guilty and bad about the way she acted. My problem is, I came from a family of all guys and when you scream and belittle me, I have a hard time "eating it" But it did work (temporarily) to just walk away. But the whole pathology of this condition means like a volcano, they blow and in the interim they build back up. As the relationship continued, and I stopped "biting" on her attempts to bait me into an explosion, the stresses still built. Her release was the rage and projection. She needed it. So me walking away did nothing to solve anything. It just meant she stayed in the build up phase for weeks instead of days, it meant she baited me more and more. It meant the explosions were more violent and the fall out was bigger. 

Such is the problem with someone who derives their self worth through the eyes of another. The person who made me feel alive now made me want to be dead. I felt horrible and worthless. It's really tough.

I'm convinced of one simple FACT to live by. DO NOT stay in a relationship with a BPD unless they are in therapy FOR BPD. Otherwise read what I wrote above and that is your fate. This problem NEVER goes away. You are slowly digging your own grave and killing your emotional well being as each cycle of abuse you are stressed to a point you are inevitably going to be placed in that grave soon if you stay. You can't manage it unless they are actively invested in getting help to make real progress.

[Lucky One]

I'm convinced of one simple FACT to live by. DO NOT stay in a relationship with a BPD unless they are in therapy FOR BPD. Otherwise read what I wrote above and that is your fate. This problem NEVER goes away. You are slowly digging your own grave and killing your emotional well being as each cycle of abuse you are stressed to a point you are inevitably going to be placed in that grave soon if you stay. You can't manage it unless they are actively invested in getting help to make real progress.

Would your approach be any different if you were 65 years of age. 38 years in the relationship. 32 years married. All kids self supporting. uBPDw in denial and no therapy. Kicked psychologist and psychiatrist out after 3 and 4 visits respectively. But they also did not have a chance to get to a diagnosis.

Or do you think one size, fits all. We all have very difficult decisions to make. Also coming to terms with our sad feelings is also hard.

[DazedAndConfusedinNC]

That being said, my guess would be no. That your affection could not have changed that situation. I recall several times during these episodes doing exactly what you say here. I would sense she was overwhelmed and go behind her as she did something at the kitchen counter and hug her from behind and give her a kiss on her neck and tell her it's ok, let me help whatever it is you need right now to do in order to feel better. She was rigid, wouldn't relax because of this. In fact I think she took that as invalidation. That I was making light of her "crisis" and in turn, it would lead to further belittling statements about "I have no idea!"

^^^I have lived this so many times with my ex. Every time I hugged her, told her that I loved her, or asked to help, she had a look of hate and disgust on her face. When talking to her, I would tell her that I just don't understand what's wrong. Her reply would be, "I know you don't understand and you never will understand". So, yes it is a helpless feeling. But yet, with the type of person I am, I still tried to understand and still tried to help "fix" the problem. Bad idea, that only makes the problem worse in the long run.

No matter how much love, affection, understanding, or caring you show them, you will not change this situation. I mean maybe once or twice early in the relationship you make them feel bad and they may back down. But once it gets to certain point in the relationship, it's game over man. It's not easy, but in my opinion, at this point you should end the relationship and go NC. It's hard right now because I do miss her, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was when I was still living there and having to watch her go out and fcuk another guy with no remorse... .

Such is the problem with someone who derives their self worth through the eyes of another. The person who made me feel alive now made me want to be dead. I felt horrible and worthless. It's really tough.

I'm convinced of one simple FACT to live by. DO NOT stay in a relationship with a BPD unless they are in therapy FOR BPD. Otherwise read what I wrote above and that is your fate. This problem NEVER goes away. You are slowly digging your own grave and killing your emotional well being as each cycle of abuse you are stressed to a point you are inevitably going to be placed in that grave soon if you stay. You can't manage it unless they are actively invested in getting help to make real progress.

I'm sorry for what you're going through. Your insights have been very helpful to me, especially what you wrote above. My girl, who was really never mine, left to find someone that fed her self worth as I wasn't doing it for her anymore. Being in a relationship with someone like that is a terrible way to "live."

[Irish rebel]

That being said, my guess would be no. That your affection could not have changed that situation. I recall several times during these episodes doing exactly what you say here. I would sense she was overwhelmed and go behind her as she did something at the kitchen counter and hug her from behind and give her a kiss on her neck and tell her it's ok, let me help whatever it is you need right now to do in order to feel better. She was rigid, wouldn't relax because of this. In fact I think she took that as invalidation. That I was making light of her "crisis" and in turn, it would lead to further belittling statements about "I have no idea!"

^^^I have lived this so many times with my ex. Every time I hugged her, told her that I loved her, or asked to help, she had a look of hate and disgust on her face. When talking to her, I would tell her that I just don't understand what's wrong. Her reply would be, "I know you don't understand and you never will understand". So, yes it is a helpless feeling. But yet, with the type of person I am, I still tried to understand and still tried to help "fix" the problem. Bad idea, that only makes the problem worse in the long run.

No matter how much love, affection, understanding, or caring you show them, you will not change this situation. I mean maybe once or twice early in the relationship you make them feel bad and they may back down. But once it gets to certain point in the relationship, it's game over man. It's not easy, but in my opinion, at this point you should end the relationship and go NC. It's hard right now because I do miss her, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was when I was still living there and having to watch her go out and fcuk another guy with no remorse... .

You don't understand, you'll never understand, you don't care, you don't want to understand... .

I used to get all the same refrains also, normally in attempting to justify another scene or outburst! Perhaps we shouldn't doubt that our partners are dealing with so much that we can never really understand, so that perhaps it's true in part. But most of the posts on here suggest that people here really do want to try and understand... .! And have put much time and energy into it too.

But we do have to have some loyalty to ourselves also, don't we? At least, that's what my own counselor/therapist said! (I'm in it, and my ex is not... .!)

It's been said elsewhere... .and there must be something in it - that each of us has to want to take responsibility for ourselves eventually. I hung around for so long hoping my ex would get into therapy again (she did actually do so a few years back and it made a huge difference). But I did eventually realize I can only make the call for myself, and do it.

But those calls for help all the time even once estranged from one another - even after not ending the relationship ourselves - they're not easy to ignore... .!