What advice did the "detached protector"give you?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

After my break up at times I encountered the detached protector who would basically pitty me and give me advice that was pretty sound but felt like rejection.

Things like, "just focus on yourself"

I really wish I had saved the messages. She would switch between detached protector and witch mode. In a sort of push pull or ambiguous messages with multiple layers of meaning that were sort of gaslighting. Sort of paradoxical in nature sort of I care but I don't.

[Blimblam]

After my break up at times I encountered the detached protector who would basically pitty me and give me advice that was pretty sound but felt like rejection.

Things like, "just focus on yourself"

I really wish I had saved the messages. She would switch between detached protector and witch mode. In a sort of push pull or ambiguous messages with multiple layers of meaning that were sort of gaslighting. Sort of paradoxical in nature sort of I care but I don't.

[Mutt]

Hi Blimblam,

You're talking about two different things. Dr Young's maladaptive schemas and Dr Lawson's borderline roles.

Members may not be familiar with schemas.

It may help members if you explain the "detached protector" schema so everyone's on the same page. There's a distinct difference between "detached protector' and "borderline witch".

A member 2010 often described schemas.

[Blimblam]

Here is a link to an explanation of the schema modes involved with BPD. This has been a model when coupled with the karpman triangle I have found to be incredibly useful making sense of what happened in the rs.

https://sites.google.com/site/cognitivetherapycenterofli/self-help-materials/borderline-personality-disorder

[Mutt]

Fill us in on how the detached protector was triggered BlimBlam and she said "focus on yourself" What was happening before that? Maybe there was another schema.

[Waifed]

After my break up at times I encountered the detached protector who would basically pitty me and give me advice that was pretty sound but felt like rejection.

Things like, "just focus on yourself"

I really wish I had saved the messages. She would switch between detached protector and witch mode. In a sort of push pull or ambiguous messages with multiple layers of meaning that were sort of gaslighting. Sort of paradoxical in nature sort of I care but I don't.

Your mailbox is full!

[Blimblam]

Hi Blimblam,

You're talking about two different things. Dr Young's maladaptive schemas and Dr Lawson's borderline roles.

Members may not be familiar with schemas.

It may help members if you explain the "detached protector" schema so everyone's on the same page. There's a distinct difference between "detached protector' and "borderline witch".

A member 2010 often described schemas.

Thank you mutt for pointing this out to me.

I have at times been working through the projections. Using the karpman drama triangle and the schema modes. When I combine these two models I nottice archtypes appear that fit into formats that coincide with various stories like fairytales.

When I met my first BPD ex I was very confident perhaps a bit overtly narcisistic.  It reminds me of beauty and the beast where the arrogant prince is turned into a beast at the begining of the film.

When I met my last one I was wounded and it reminded me of the princess and the frog prince.

This is why I often refer to fairytale analogies. The fairy tale is sort of a pretty advanced way of percieving it and breaking the projections down using the schema modes and the karpman triangle I find to get into the nitty gritty of making sence of what happened which will reveal the archtypical fairytale romance that occurred.

[fred6]

The detached protector never really gave me advice. It was cold, distant, and avoidant. Whenever I tried to rationalize or talk to the detached protector it seems that the angry child and/or the punitive parent eventually showed up. Then I felt like $hit until the storm passed.

[Blimblam]

Fill us in on how the detached protector was triggered BlimBlam and she said "focus on yourself" What was happening before that? Maybe there was another schema.

Ok I will try. It is very painful to get to that place in myself and i sort of made the thread to relate to others experiences to identify with that part and confront myself and the pain.

My expectations triggered her impulsive angry child to punish me as the punitive parent which triggered my punitive parent to punish my lonely child which triggered my lonely impulsive child to rebel against my punitive parent and project out the lonely child seeking understanding and recognition of the pain she caused me from my ex. Which would further trigger her impulsive child to punish me and repeat the cycle untill the detached protector arrived on her side.  At this point is a world of fog and confusion for me.

[Blimblam]

I have made a sort of graph if this and her angry impulsive child is split and this forms her to create the triangle.

So I recieved the angry child which acted out against the lonely child activating the punitive parent in me to punish my lonely child. When I would activate my angry child it would rebel against the punitive parent within me and project the agey child at her activating her lonely child to go into victim mode. And she would see me as the punitive parent.

This would cause her to find a third party for the happy abandoned child and impulsive child to create an idealization phase.

[Blimblam]

The funny thing is my own inner detached protector comes along in me and wants to not deal with it and just focus on outside things and be happy. But I can feel my lonely child's need to understand so I can finally work through these issues as become whole.

[Blimblam]

If anyone has insight into these projections I would appreciate it. I think I'll read trough 2010 posts again as well. I've read some Jeffrey young as also.

[Blimblam]

I think my answers may be encoded in the film Let the right one in, through symbolism.

Also the film hook and Groundhog Day.

[Mutt]

If anyone has insight into these projections I would appreciate it. I think I'll read trough 2010 posts again as well. I've read some Jeffrey young as also.

You say you have a detached protector. Maybe it's a play on words. The detached protector implies you have maladaptive schemas. You're not borderline BlimBlam 

[blissful_camper]

The detached protector didn't give me advice either.  Ex was so extreme in that mode, it often scared the cr@p out of me.

[Mutt]

I only recall seeing it a couple of times near the end. She was in her dissociative phase. Scorched earth and having her affair. She was feeling the guilt and shame with what she was doing. The detached protector followed a couple of particularly bad borderline rages and lengthy ones at that. Maybe i'm wrong, i didn't time it but I'd like to say she raged for an hour. Her emotional cleansing and memories I'll likely never forget.

After her rage she sat down on the couch, still, quiet. She looked and sounded like another person, distant, ghostly and spent. I thought there was something wrong with her and I approached and asked "are you OK?" The only words she spoke in this schema was "not now Mutt" in a low voice and shook her head no. I left her alone and watched from the other side of the living room quietly. She was still, head down and in this dissociative episode lasted 20-30 minutes.

She snaps out of detached protector and gets up from the couch and carries on as if nothing happened. For the life of me I can't remember what she said, it was something we had to do, something planned. Anyway, in 90 minutes she went from angry child to detached protector. It was incredible to watch. My exe had a habit with throwing things, whatever she had in her hands when in angry child mode. Remotes, cell phones, glasses, cups, plates.

I admit I was nervous and frazzled from her rage. How can she have this intensity in anger and abruptly change into this other person that looked powerless? I was scared and worried for her.

It's a protective mode. The most difficult schema to work with. She was withdrawn from reality with very few words which were "not now Mutt"

◾Angry child - This mode is fueled mainly by feelings of victimization or bitterness, leading towards negativity, pessimism, jealousy, and rage. While experiencing this schema mode, a patient may have urges to yell, scream, throw/break things, or possibly even self-injury/harming others. The "angry child" is enraged, anxious, frustrated, self-doubting, feels unsupported in ideas, and vulnerable.

◾Detached Protector - This schema mode is based in escape. Individuals in "detached protector" withdraw, dissociate, alienate, or hide in some way. This may be triggered by numerous stress factors or feelings of being overwhelmed. The lack of coping skills when a person is in a life situation involving high-demand or a chain of thoughts/emotions revolving obsessively often can trigger "detached protector." Stated simply, patients become numb in order to protect themselves from the harm or stress of what they fear is to come, or fear of the unknown in general. Mistrust is often a culprit in "triggering" such fears.

www.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_therapy

[shellbent]

"I know this sounds selfish, but I need to focus on myself now."

"Move on and let me live my life"

These were possibly the most painful to hear.

While looking at the sub-types of BPD I associate those mostly with the beginning of the rs. The attraction and the chase. Wounded child looking for a parent.

However with the way that the rs slowly unraveled and then ended, I can more attribute her behavior to the schemas of the BPD. Still hard to tell because she never expressed her needs consciously. It makes me think that I would be more successful talking and reconnecting with her if I am able to detect each mode as it is occurring. But at this point I should be focusing on my inner child. And while in the beginning of the rs I was much more balanced and complete, the bu has caused my lonely child to "awaken". All the other times I felt most like the healthy parent or punitive parent, and possibly sometimes the angry child. But I had my peace. Now that after all these times I still found a way to trust her and forget about the possibility of abandonment. So now I think the roles reversed and her abandoned child converted to the punitive parent and is punishing my abandoned child for expressing his needs. She brought out my most vulnerable side.

So after realizing this why can't I go back to being the parent? It is taking way too long to get my abandoned child to not feel alone again.

My ex is incapable of showing genuine concern for anyone other than herself. In the 5 months all the times we talked she never initiated and also never asked me any questions about how I was doing. I on the other hand was always showing concern for her and trying to be there for her.

So I think her needy, not greedy behavior has caused an injury in my lonely child for the way I opened up to her and trusted her.

When I try to sum up all of her "good" qualities, I can not even imagine anymore what I miss about her. It was all about how I felt with her, but she seems to not have any depth to her at all. I miss the person that I thought was there. I loved the person I wanted to believe was her.

One small spark of hope makes me think that was the real her before and that is who she really wants to be. I could tell when things were going great she was at total peace with herself.