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Author Topic: Crappy Saturday: Still caught in the FOG not seeing the root issue  (Read 733 times)
Inquisitive1
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« on: October 26, 2014, 07:56:50 AM »

Yesterday was pretty crappy. One our dogs was walking funny in the morning, so I woke up my wife a bit early and we took the dog to the vet.

At the vet my dBPDw started getting really bossy, it got on my nerves and we started to bicker. I hate that, it's like low grade pain and just makes life unpleasant. The dog has a back problem with may resolve with medications or require surgery. This is stressful especially because it would be difficult for us to afford expensive pet surgery.

We get home and continue to rub each other the wrong way. Then she starts talking about how I never fix stuff around the house unless she gets really mad at me and pushed me too. Ughhhh. That is the most maddening thing. I do the grocery shopping, work a full time job, do most of the cooking... .and I still do some home repair stuff. And then, for her to say I only do it when she gets angry at me... .jeez give me credit for the things I achieve.

Part of the issue is she wants everything done right away and I move in a slower more considered pace. But, when I finish my repair it is quality that will last. Also, we don't have money to just do everything the moment she wants to. Then she gets frustrated.

I've asked her for a honey do list in the past. So she creates one that includes "not done for 3 years. What the heck!" A great example of how to piss off your partner.

I've got to figure out how to not get so mad when she accuses me of not doing enough home repair. I think there is a bit of FOG in me on this issue, focus on the OG.

Later in the day, I realized a lot of this might have been her concern about the dog. She reallllllllly love that dog. But I coudn't see that earlier cause I was mad and all FOGed.

I also need help negotiating the honey do list. We gotta do things slower.

Oh well this post is all over the map, i'll accept any comments.
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maxsterling
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2014, 08:44:56 AM »

So sorry to hear you are dealing with that :-( about all i can say right now is i can completely relate.  Try to find some time to do something nice for yourself today.
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ColdEthyl
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2014, 11:06:15 AM »

Hello, inquisitive.

Most of the time, they get angry at one thing... .and they drag out this trunk of stuff that bothers them, and start throwing random things out of it. It can be really daunting to deal with, and sometimes trying to find which thing they are actually upset about is a task.

I see you are upset with good reason, that's she isn't validating you. They are not to be relied on for that. They kind of suck at it. Expecting them to do it will always end in frustration on your part. They know the good things you do, but when they got themselves whipped into a frenzy, they don't see them. They just see that trunk.

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jcarter4856
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2014, 11:51:30 AM »

You've perfectly described my life until recently. Here's some thoughts:

1. Without reacting, consider each thing she says in the context of "is this something a reasonable normal person should put up with or accept?".

2. If the answer is "no" (which I think it is in the cases you've outlined here). Then DON'T accept it!

This doesn't mean getting angry back, just either walk away or state clearly without anger that you won't be spoken to in this manner.

3. When you impose this boundary be prepared for initial fireworks (I want a divorce, etc... .). However just ignore that response and continue with the boundary. After a few times she should behave and respect the boundary.

The problem with these people is that so much of the behavior and responses are backwards with respect to a regular person's thinking. So easy to get dragged into a rathole. You need to school your mind in advance on the right responses. e.g. often whatever nasty thing they are telling you about yourself is in fact what they believe about themselves (projection). Mine will say "Stop micro-managing me!". What the heck? she does exactly what she wants to do every second of every day. I have no way to influence what she does at all. Then ... .penny drops, ah! She means that she's angry at herself for micro-managing ME. Ok fine... .

Good luck!
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2014, 01:18:11 PM »

Thanks for the responses. Things are going better today. And, part of yesterday may have been my own stress and concern about the dog.

I'd like more feedback on her need for immediate gratification with home projects. Is this part of BPD impulsiveness and need for immediate gratification? What's the best way to slow her down?
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2014, 03:44:17 PM »

Thanks for the responses. Things are going better today. And, part of yesterday may have been my own stress and concern about the dog.

I'd like more feedback on her need for immediate gratification with home projects. Is this part of BPD impulsiveness and need for immediate gratification? What's the best way to slow her down?

I think it has to do with the impulsiveness. My husband will get fixated on things and will not let them go until there is some kind of resolution. When he gets fixated/obsessed, all I can do is try to validate that I hear him. There have been times when I have flat out told him, "look, I don't want to hear about this any more." But, my husband will talk about a project ad nauseum but then not actually doing it. He talked about mowing the lawn for almost a month before doing it.

I don't know that you can slow her down. Carefully weigh each of her requests and see if there is a reason to be in a hurry and then try to set a boundary.
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flowerpath
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 11:44:12 PM »

Is this part of BPD impulsiveness and need for immediate gratification? I'd like more feedback on her need for immediate gratification with home projects. What's the best way to slow her down?

The things they are impulsive about must depend on what's important to them.  We have lots of home projects that haven't been done! 

Maybe Support and Empathy of S.E.T. would help first.  Then ask her to write out a list or write one together.  Decide ahead of time to ignore her snarky comments and write the projects on your own sheet of paper and work off of that list instead of hers so you don't have to look at the snarky stuff she writes.  Then prioritize the list - by what's most important or whatever's the quickest or the least expensive. Then discuss the Truth (of S.E.T.) of the matter - Here's what I can do now... .This is what that task will require... .It will take this long... .This job will cost... .We'll need to set aside this amount of money per month in order to pay someone to do that... .   Then do what you can do.

What I like about the Truth is... .it is what it is.  Just about every time I use that S.E.T. tool, the issue stops at the Truth.

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jcarter4856
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 07:15:23 AM »

I'd like more feedback on her need for immediate gratification with home projects. Is this part of BPD impulsiveness and need for immediate gratification? What's the best way to slow her down?

I think it has to do with their "thinking only in this moment". A regular person would see the deck needs to be repaired and think "I'd like that repaired but well we've been on vacation and working really long hours so I guess it'll need to wait a while longer". Meanwhile the pwBPD will not think of or see any of that mitigating stuff. They think "deck needs fixed! Unhappy about that, go blame someone NOW!".

I've found that you can ask questions of them without getting angry (requires plenty of self control and awareness) that will cause them to think of the "missing" information. e.g. "is there a good couple of days coming up where you could help me work on this project?". A question like that will cause them to examine the schedule at which point they will discover there is no available time. Basically don't assume a regular person's insight into the matter on the outset. Play like you don't have that information either and ask them questions to pull it out into the front of their brain.



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ydrys017
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 08:33:54 AM »

I think it has to do with their "thinking only in this moment". A regular person would see the deck needs to be repaired and think "I'd like that repaired but well we've been on vacation and working really long hours so I guess it'll need to wait a while longer". Meanwhile the pwBPD will not think of or see any of that mitigating stuff. They think "deck needs fixed! Unhappy about that, go blame someone NOW!".

This last sentence made me bust out laughing!  It is so true, and typically catches me so off guard!  Sometimes I just shake my head and walk away... .
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 09:18:00 AM »

I've tried to use SET in these situations, but failed. I provide support by telling her I want to help keep the house well maintained. This weekend she responded to that with, "you never want to fix things around the house" despite evidence to the contrary. That made me made angry, so my SET game got derailed. I think I tried to empathize... .not sure how to here... .maybe that things may feel out of control. I definitely got to Truth: We can't afford this and I've got other things to do.

I need to work on not getting derailed from SET.

Also need to stop being so sensitive to her criticisms of my home maintenance... .I think I'm especially sensitive to that because my dad and I used to do those things together, it was valued in my family of origin. There's also some resentment here, I do a lot more than her, so to have her criticize me for not doing enough is especially galling.

The other complicating factor is that if I don't address something, sometimes she'll hire someone in to do the work, which ends up costing more... .not good when are money is super tight because she's not working. grrrrr... .
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 11:29:04 AM »

 

Not saying I've figured it out... .but I've pretty much stopped doing projects around the house.  And... she has started.  I don't comment on her quality of work... and I don't tolerate comments on mine. 

I just don't stick around to listen... .

Every once in a while the criticism about issues is constructive... I try to separate that out.

So... .in this instance.  I would say if she gets pissed about something... .make sure it doesn't get done... until is it asked for properly (whatever you consider proper... non abusive... .asking).  That being said... .if she does ask nicely... .please make sure it gets done... .quickly.  So... let good momentum sustain itself... .don't let bad get started.

Do you think there is truth to her statement... .stuff doesn't get done... unless she gets pissed?  In my case... .my wife said similar things... .I and I can see her point of view... .there was a kernel of truth to it.  I stopped catering to her whims... .but did focus more on her emotions... .

So... .when she said things never got done... ."I'm sorry you feel that way... "... .and maybe I would say I was going to get a glass of water... and offer her one.  DON'T EXPLAIN TO HER SHE IS WRONG... .

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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 12:49:44 PM »

Good point Formflier, there's more than a kernel of truth in it.

Here's a good example. A few weeks back I installed a storm door. She'd been requesting this for a month or more for some good reasons, but I felt it wasn't the time because our income was down. So, she talked to one of the handymen we've used for this sort of work and scheduled him to come. Then I got the door and said I could install myself, saving us some cash.

I think keeping a list of these things and try to work off the list could help.
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ColdEthyl
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 04:59:50 PM »

They think in black and white terms. Their responses are "You ALWAYS do this, you NEVER do that", espically when they are angry about something like... .someone puts pickles on their hamburger when they didn't want it.




I've tried to use SET in these situations, but failed. I provide support by telling her I want to help keep the house well maintained. This weekend she responded to that with, "you never want to fix things around the house" despite evidence to the contrary. That made me made angry, so my SET game got derailed. I think I tried to empathize... .not sure how to here... .maybe that things may feel out of control. I definitely got to Truth: We can't afford this and I've got other things to do.

I need to work on not getting derailed from SET.

Also need to stop being so sensitive to her criticisms of my home maintenance... .I think I'm especially sensitive to that because my dad and I used to do those things together, it was valued in my family of origin. There's also some resentment here, I do a lot more than her, so to have her criticize me for not doing enough is especially galling.

The other complicating factor is that if I don't address something, sometimes she'll hire someone in to do the work, which ends up costing more... .not good when are money is super tight because she's not working. grrrrr... .

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adventurer
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 11:59:22 PM »

There is a technique that can work sometimes with the "you always do this" "you never do that" complaints.  I forget what it is called, but it is from the book 'When I Say No I Feel Guilty' about developing assertiveness.

In the technique, you basically just agree to whatever they say to you, even when they're wrong, and every instinct you have is to JADE.  So they say, "you never help around the house," you just say back, "yup, I never help around the house."  DON'T APOLOGIZE for it, just admit to whatever you're accused of.  Then, they are dumbfounded because you have not started a fight about it and they are completely disarmed because you've agreed, and they don't know where to go next.

Of course, no telling what they will complain about immediately next but in my case, sometimes it's caused my wife to just sigh with exasperation and leave the room.  So at least I get some peace and quiet instead of another rager.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 10:20:03 AM »

coldethyl, yeah, pickles... .this morning my wife got made at me and hand-wrote a three page note because I went to the grocery store last night after she didn't get some of the stuff I wanted at the grocery.   She said she felt invalidated, like her effort wasn't good enough. So sensitive.

adventurer, I seem to recall using the "agree whether right or wrong" approach before out of sheer frustration (perhaps there was a bit of sarcasm involved). I never thought of it as a technique. My family of origin placed a lot of value on objective truth, so it is hard not to JADE. Thinking of it as a technique I can use when the occasion calls for it feels empowering and I really like the suggestion.

I worry a little that agreeing with something that is objectively wrong might set a bad precedent. But, maybe for pwBPD the objective truth is less important. My BPDw doesn't seem to track that like I do. For pwBPD, maybe the subjective truth of validating their feelings or at least not invalidating their feelings is more important. That and having a nifty way to duck out of an argument.

I may start a new thread on this technique.
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2014, 10:37:38 AM »

Do it simple?... .go out meet a sound woman , get a little interested in her, and your BPD fog is minimized, it is easy to become blinded in a fog, forgetting there is normal ppl living in the real world. A BPD rs is based on fantacy, you need someone that likes the real you, and is a positive supporter.
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2014, 10:40:46 AM »

I may start a new thread on this technique.

I agree... I think a new thread on this technique would be interesting.

I'm suspicious of this... .that it would come across sarcastic.  Or that it would invite a "you know what I mean... .don't try to be funny... .response".

Yes you want to validate... .

Yes you don't want to invalidate...

You also don't want to validate the invalid... .I think agreeing with them could be along these lines...

but... .lets get a new thread going and hash this out...

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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2014, 10:46:14 AM »

Now that you mention this stuff, it may be a bad strategy - validating the negative behavior.
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