A wake up call

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I filed for a divorce and it was a wake up call for my BPD wife. She was sure she would be able to bamboozle the judge like she has so many others. She even had two friends write affidavits to back her up (based on the lies she had told them). I simply got one of our close friends, who I knew would come across neutral (because she was), to write the truth and that was enough. The judge didn't find my wife's version of the scenario believable. Because some things had happened in front of our children, the judge ordered DSS to get involved to make sure they were okay. My wife then tried to bamboozle DSS but it didn't work. I got majority custody of the kids and she got no child support or alimony which she was asking for. Everyone outside her circle of friends she had fooled was on my side. Our kids were even on my side (based on what they knew). She was at rock bottom. She had lost her children and her husband (whom she really knew wasn't as she described). So, it was a wake up call for her. After getting over the anger of me filing for divorce, she has been different, despite the fact we didn't go through with it. She respects me more because she didn't think I would actually buck up to her. She has even told me, "I didn't think you had it in you. Now I know."

[Mr. Solo]

I filed for a divorce and it was a wake up call for my BPD wife. She was sure she would be able to bamboozle the judge like she has so many others. She even had two friends write affidavits to back her up (based on the lies she had told them). I simply got one of our close friends, who I knew would come across neutral (because she was), to write the truth and that was enough. The judge didn't find my wife's version of the scenario believable. Because some things had happened in front of our children, the judge ordered DSS to get involved to make sure they were okay. My wife then tried to bamboozle DSS but it didn't work. I got majority custody of the kids and she got no child support or alimony which she was asking for. Everyone outside her circle of friends she had fooled was on my side. Our kids were even on my side (based on what they knew). She was at rock bottom. She had lost her children and her husband (whom she really knew wasn't as she described). So, it was a wake up call for her. After getting over the anger of me filing for divorce, she has been different, despite the fact we didn't go through with it. She respects me more because she didn't think I would actually buck up to her. She has even told me, "I didn't think you had it in you. Now I know."

[Indyan]

She was at rock bottom. She had lost her children and her husband (whom she really knew wasn't as she described). So, it was a wake up call for her. After getting over the anger of me filing for divorce, she has been different, despite the fact we didn't go through with it.

What do you mean "you didn't go through it"? You said judge gave you full custody etc... .

What happened next?

Here, I feel I'm at a crossroads. BPD kept threatening of court regarding our baby (we are not married, but if we had been I'm positive it would have been about divorce). Last week-end I felt sick of it and told him simply that that was his choice, that we could go to mediation instead. Mainly, I showed that I was informed (I saw a lawyer last week) and not afraid anymore.

Since then he's messages have been very different (he lives apart and we only exchange messages), not threatening, courteous, almost kind. I'm suspicious, no idea whether he's stepping back or doing the Jungle Book snake to me.

I wonder: can we really build a r/s AGAIN after filing for divorce/court?

[Mr. Solo]

She was at rock bottom. She had lost her children and her husband (whom she really knew wasn't as she described). So, it was a wake up call for her. After getting over the anger of me filing for divorce, she has been different, despite the fact we didn't go through with it.

What do you mean "you didn't go through it"? You said judge gave you full custody etc... .

What happened next?

Here, I feel I'm at a crossroads. BPD kept threatening of court regarding our baby (we are not married, but if we had been I'm positive it would have been about divorce). Last week-end I felt sick of it and told him simply that that was his choice, that we could go to mediation instead. Mainly, I showed that I was informed (I saw a lawyer last week) and not afraid anymore.

Since then he's messages have been very different (he lives apart and we only exchange messages), not threatening, courteous, almost kind. I'm suspicious, no idea whether he's stepping back or doing the Jungle Book snake to me.

I wonder: can we really build a r/s AGAIN after filing for divorce/court?

At the initial divorce hearing, I was granted custody and was the primary parent but at that point it was just temporary. We still had to go through the process with a Guardian Ad Litem (he was to determine permanent custody and we had to wait a year before finalizing the divorce). I did everything I was supposed to with the court and Guardian. She couldn't manage to do it because she realized she wasn't going to fool anyone this time. She realized she was going to have to deal with reality for once. I had the leverage. I had the upper hand. That's not to say that was my goal. My goal was to do what I needed to do for me, our kids, and even her. I wasn't trying to punish her or anything. The divorce has not been finalized. She wanted to wait and decide if she really wanted to divorce or not. I never wanted to divorce, even when I filed, but I really had no choice based on what she was doing. She knew this. I guess what I am saying is, in my case, taking her to court for the initial hearing for a divorce turned out to be a positive. She was angry at first but now she understands it.

[behindme]

I wish all of you going through this a lot of strength and support. My son struggled with his determination, had even moved back in w/his now ex-wife and attempted counseling (again) for the sake of their marriage and child but saw how fruitless it was -- and also saw how she tried to manipulate the therapist into believing she was the one who was so easy-going and it was my son who was being so difficult.  In any case, he eventually sought out an attn'y who had some experience with personality disorders and, along with his own therapist who did as well, was able to extricate himself from the marriage employing effective guidelines such as SET.  I have to admit to this day I still feel a grief for the DIL I once knew….and loved…along with a certain resentment for having effectively torn apart my idealized view of "what could have been's" but accept this is of course all for the best for the healthier individuals, not the least of whom, as you point out, is the child... or children….resulting from such a union. It's a positive step to be taken to remove a child from such an environment in which there is frequent friction so I applaud your efforts in attempting to do so, or recognizing the efforts that need to be made to smooth the way for a healthier, more nurturing home life in any regard.  It's not a matter to be taken lightly so I can certainly appreciate your conflict.  All the best.

[Maca]

I know how your feeling. My girlfriend almost ex uses me as a taxi service, shopping cart pusher and gardener and when i'm not there she just finds some other guy to do it. She loves to get people to help her and bail her out trouble doesn't care who.

[ForeverDad]

One question, that's all I have... .Has she started therapy, real therapy and not just a few visits for window dressing, is she applying it diligently in her life and making solid progress toward recovery for a significant length of time?  Anything less and I worry that all you have is a temporary truce, a shaky one.  Yes, right now she's at a disadvantage, she had her lies and stories all prepared and they didn't work.  This time.  Beware, if she's not solidly on the path to recovery, there very likely will be a second time.  And you better believe that the second time around she'll know which behaviors to keep hidden and perhaps even manage to frame you for poor behaviors.  Maybe I'm jaded, but it's better to be jaded and in reasonable control of your life than fooled, taken to the cleaners and on the outside looking in.

My lawyer had told me that he has almost never done separations.  The reason (in my area) not to do a legal separation with an acting-out disordered spouse is that the first time (separation) you go through the custody process, she may misbehave before the court and evaluator and you will be seen as the better parent resulting in favorable parenting time for you.  But if you later decide to take that final step and seek divorce, you may have to go through the custody evaluation all over again and the second time around she may know how to hide her behaviors and she might get more custodial responsibility and parenting time.

I've posted about this topic a few times before, it's probably a good time to mention it again as it teaches a lesson: Experience is not the best teacher, it is the harshest teacher.  So, if you can, learn from others' experiences.

My lawyer warned me to avoid a trap a prior client had fallen for.  His client was divorcing his wife and the reports had come out well for him, his wife's behaviors were that concerning, he was going to have custody of his children, all that was needed was for him to sign.  One last signature. That's all.  No response to his letter to come in and sign, so he called (probably his secretary) and guess who answered?  The wife.  Yes, they were back together again.   The husband dropped the divorce.  Six months passed.  Then the husband came in wanting a divorce yet again, his wife really hadn't changed after all.  This time around his wife knew which behaviors the court and evaluators scrutinized and which she should avoid during the custody evaluation (or it might have been the court's cheaper parenting investigation) and the second time around the reports recommended the children stay with her.  You see, the second report had little or nothing to do with the first one, dropping the first case and starting over in court had triggered a Full Reset.

My lawyer wanted me to avoid a similar mistake.  He told me that even if she came and danced on my lawn naked, I should think with my big head and not my little one.

[ugghh]

Mr. Solo,  I echo ForeverDads concerns for your well being and the long term viability of this "recovery" your wife has undergone.  From an outside view it sounds more like you are entering a recycling phase.  If your BPD wife (not sure if this diagnosed or undiagnosed ) is truly BPD this is a predictable and familiar pattern to many on this board. 

Please reference this Workshop on Relationship Recycling https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95860.0

Based on your post, I would also highly recommend that your read what seems to be one my more recommended posts - Lesson 2 Understanding Your Situation (10 Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck) -

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

or the PDF https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf . In your case I would point you especially to point 10 and point 4.

[Mr. Solo]

Mr. Solo,  I echo ForeverDads concerns for your well being and the long term viability of this "recovery" your wife has undergone.  From an outside view it sounds more like you are entering a recycling phase.  If your BPD wife (not sure if this diagnosed or undiagnosed ) is truly BPD this is a predictable and familiar pattern to many on this board.  

Please reference this Workshop on Relationship Recycling https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95860.0

Based on your post, I would also highly recommend that your read what seems to be one my more recommended posts - Lesson 2 Understanding Your Situation (10 Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck) -

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

or the PDF https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf . In your case I would point you especially to point 10 and point 4.

Thanks. I read the Ten Beliefs. I understand it. I am trying to deal with it correctly. It is just hard to believe this has happened sometimes.

[livednlearned]

Have you thought about doing a therapeutic separation?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141686.0

One thing you have to be careful about -- and this is more about court than BPD -- is that court gave you custody because it found you to be the credible, stable parent. You're a man, so whatever happened must've been a big deal. I'm a woman, and my ex is seriously disordered, had a psychotic episode while my son was with him, and it took me 3 years and big fat binders of evidence, not to mention N/BPDx represented himself and his disordered thinking was on full display. So whatever happened in your case, it had to be pretty extreme to get the ruling you received, at least if these boards are any indication.

If you stay with your wife after the court found her to be so unstable that she lost custody of her children, then you put yourself in a very tenuous situation if she dysregulates and you go back to court, you'll have a lot of explaining to do.

It's an awful fact for many of us that once you tangle up custody with the courts, your choices become the business of the legal machine.

[Indyan]

If you stay with your wife after the court found her to be so unstable that she lost custody of her children, then you put yourself in a very tenuous situation if she dysregulates and you go back to court, you'll have a lot of explaining to do.

My lawyer has told me that as long as we don't have the same legal address, the court order still stands.

[livednlearned]

If you stay with your wife after the court found her to be so unstable that she lost custody of her children, then you put yourself in a very tenuous situation if she dysregulates and you go back to court, you'll have a lot of explaining to do.

My lawyer has told me that as long as we don't have the same legal address, the court order still stands.

That may be a legal point of law, but the credibility part -- which is harder to define -- is also crucial. I've had to sit through a lot of cases while waiting for my own to be heard. One thing I learned is that the court doesn't want to make decisions, so if you give any indication that you are not consistent, and credible, and 100% focused on what is best for the kids, then court makes the most minimal decision possible because you are judged as being equally unfit as the other parent. You can't raise any questions in the court's mind about your own judgment if you want them to take you seriously. I watched this one case with a woman who claimed her ex was abusing the kids, and the opposing attorney pointed out that she went on vacation for two weeks and left the kids with their father above and beyond what was in the order, and the judge focused on that as proof that she either lacked good judgment or was not sufficiently concerned. She lost. I saw it happen over and over and over again, different cases, different details, same story.

A lot of us feel like we are emotionally healthier than our BPD ex's, and perhaps that is true, but being more healthy than BPD isn't the same as being healthy. It also doesn't take much to be more emotionally healthy than someone with BPD. The court judges us for being in these relationships, whether that gets stated explicitly or not. You have to overcome that bias by demonstrating very clear and consistent healthy behavior. It might work out ok the first or second time you're in court, but that luck fades fast over time.

And once the court starts ruling, doors begin to shut. It becomes extremely hard, and sometimes impossible, and always expensive, to open them. That can have tragic consequences for kids, especially if their BPD parent's behavior worsens and they desperately need protection.

[Indyan]

That may be a legal point of law, but the credibility part -- which is harder to define -- is also crucial.

I meant - if you don't intend (and neither does your BPD spouse) to go back to court!

It could be a means to protect the kids in case BPD goes wild again, while working on the relationship.

But I guess that if BPD asks for more later (shared custody for example as kids grow up), it could indeed be used against us when we try to explain why SC wouldn't be safe for the kids.