Is it BPD or her age?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have posted on her a couple of times so I will make this one quick.

My exBPDgf told me a month ago she wanted a "break" from our relationship. It devastated me. She moved in with me, we started college together. We talked about marriage, kids, all that. She told me the typical "I can never imagine living without you" and "I can't live without you". We were even planning a camping trip the DAY BEFORE she told me she wanted a "break". Lke we were mapping out the expenses and everything.

Background info:

She moved in when she was 17, well a month before she turned 18, mainly because she couldn't handle being at her moms anymore. BEcause her mom was so strict and she wanted freedom. When she lived with me she used weed to "get away from her problems". She is very social and when we lived together we never really did anything, I know she didn't like that. I had a lot of problems going on in my family, I felt like I had to parent her, and I was starting college and working a part time job. (Family problem example: 1st week of college my mom tells us she is getting a separation with her husband and has to move in with us, it is my moms house btw).

She was so depressed in the weeks before her breaking away from me. She kept asking me if I was going to be with her forever. I know her dad gave her a talk about how it is human nature for guys to abandon girls or something like that and it freaked her out.

And so yeah….one day when I get back from work she is crying and telling me she has to move back in with her mom. The next day she scared me because she seemed detached from me like she had just split me from being her bf to a friend or guy she use to know. She seemed like an alien who changed from extreme love to being indifferent. She said she needed to "explore" wanted no limitations or restrictions and packed up her stuff and left.

I have been strict NC. She tells me she cares, misses me and still wants me in her life. Sounds like I am just her backup person. She rarely ever talks to me, only texted me once, emailed twice, and called maybe 3 times in one day. She left me voicemails telling me not to ignore her (her pet peeve) and that she wanted to make sure I was "ok". Sounds like BPD behavior. I was there for her through her HELL (cutting herself, depressions etc etc) and she probably thinks I will be there for her now.

Long story short I find lots of comfort in blaming her actions on her BPD, because she has it pretty bad. She is impulsive, angry, b___y, depressed, everything. But I dont want to be fooling myself here. Maybe it is just her age. I don't know. Every part of me wants to blame her BPD. Blaming her Bpd makes me able to heal faster.

What do you all think?

[antonio1213]

I have posted on her a couple of times so I will make this one quick.

My exBPDgf told me a month ago she wanted a "break" from our relationship. It devastated me. She moved in with me, we started college together. We talked about marriage, kids, all that. She told me the typical "I can never imagine living without you" and "I can't live without you". We were even planning a camping trip the DAY BEFORE she told me she wanted a "break". Lke we were mapping out the expenses and everything.

Background info:

She moved in when she was 17, well a month before she turned 18, mainly because she couldn't handle being at her moms anymore. BEcause her mom was so strict and she wanted freedom. When she lived with me she used weed to "get away from her problems". She is very social and when we lived together we never really did anything, I know she didn't like that. I had a lot of problems going on in my family, I felt like I had to parent her, and I was starting college and working a part time job. (Family problem example: 1st week of college my mom tells us she is getting a separation with her husband and has to move in with us, it is my moms house btw).

She was so depressed in the weeks before her breaking away from me. She kept asking me if I was going to be with her forever. I know her dad gave her a talk about how it is human nature for guys to abandon girls or something like that and it freaked her out.

And so yeah….one day when I get back from work she is crying and telling me she has to move back in with her mom. The next day she scared me because she seemed detached from me like she had just split me from being her bf to a friend or guy she use to know. She seemed like an alien who changed from extreme love to being indifferent. She said she needed to "explore" wanted no limitations or restrictions and packed up her stuff and left.

I have been strict NC. She tells me she cares, misses me and still wants me in her life. Sounds like I am just her backup person. She rarely ever talks to me, only texted me once, emailed twice, and called maybe 3 times in one day. She left me voicemails telling me not to ignore her (her pet peeve) and that she wanted to make sure I was "ok". Sounds like BPD behavior. I was there for her through her HELL (cutting herself, depressions etc etc) and she probably thinks I will be there for her now.

Long story short I find lots of comfort in blaming her actions on her BPD, because she has it pretty bad. She is impulsive, angry, b___y, depressed, everything. But I dont want to be fooling myself here. Maybe it is just her age. I don't know. Every part of me wants to blame her BPD. Blaming her Bpd makes me able to heal faster.

What do you all think?

[SickofMe]

If she is only 18 it is really hard to say.  I had a prof in college who stated "all teenage girls are borderline."  He was only half kidding.  Experts disagree about when it's "okay" to label with a PD bc young people are still developing, and a lot of times it is the pervasiveness of the behaviors over time that helps to dx.

Whatever her dx is (and there is likely one in there, whether it is mood or personality), the relationship sounds very painful and confusing for you and it sounds like she is in no place, emotionally, to have a happy and healthy relationship with you.

Why do you feel the label is helping you heal?  Is it because it helps you resolve that it's an impossible situation, or because it's easier to blame a disorder than to feel all the stuff that goes with losing an important relationship?

At any rate--even if she doesn't have a personality disorder, but is exhibiting traits at this time--you have your answer.  It doesn't really matter what the DSM says if the relationship is making you feel sick.

[Mutt]

I'd like to add there's a lot of white and black thinking with adolescents.

"I can never imagine living without you" and "I can't live without you".

You make a good point SickofMe with toxicity. I look at the behaviors and what I allow on the self. What are my boundaries when someone is trying to manipulate you?

antonio1213,



You can choose to blame. A choice can also be looking at ourselves and our actions in the relationship and learn from it and grow. Perhaps making different choices the next time instead of repeating patterns.

She needed a rescue from her mom, you rescued her for example. You felt sympathetic and she pulls at the heartstrings. What are your boundaries? These are lessons you may miss if you choose to blame. You may get yourself into something toxic and even worse again.

Hang in there.

--Mutt

[fromheeltoheal]

She said she needed to "explore" wanted no limitations or restrictions and packed up her stuff and left.

That actually sounds like a good plan for an 18 year old.  I don't know how old you are antonio, but in my opinion an 18 year old is not mature enough yet to have an adult relationship.  At that age we're experimenting, will have our first significant relationships, get our hearts broken, make mistakes with the wrong people for us, on our way to finding the right person, and there's no way to do that without going through a few wrong ones first.

Anyway, I agree that the diagnosis doesn't matter, and she may be too young for one anyway.  It's the behaviors that matter; either she's making you feel wanted, loved and a priority or she's not.  Outside the BPD world there's a thing called 'friendzoned', where she wants you to hang around and be 'friends', while you want more, but settle for 'friends' because you think it's better than nothing.  I went there more than a few times in my youth, and never again; if you want to be with someone, tell her, if she doesn't that's fine, but don't expect me to hang around, not going to happen.  Bottom line, what do you want?

[Chasing_Ghosts]

Outside the BPD world there's a thing called 'friendzoned', where she wants you to hang around and be 'friends', while you want more, but settle for 'friends' because you think it's better than nothing. 

Then inside the BPD world their a much worse place called the "friendzone dungeon". Its where she keeps all her past lovers, exs, and orbiters for when she needs a spare source of supply. Beware if this girl is BPD then you could end up their for years only to go through painful yearning and heartache while you "wait" for her. Then shell string you along and maybe down the line shell decide to recycle you. But from my experience and many others on this board if they do not get treatment it will be more of the same and it will only get worse each successive attempt. Then shell dump you again because shes done with her old toy and found a shiny new one. Leaving you more confused and once again with youre heart in your hand wondering "what the ___ just happened?"

My advice is stay away from this as heel suggests even if shes not BPD the regular friendzone though not as crazy making as the dungeon is still setting yourself up for heartache... i know because ive lived both and can honestly say the emotional pain will destroy you from the inside out especially the day you see her with the new guy. Whats even worse is shell complain about how horrible he is and youll agree tell her "she deserves better". All the while shell keep dating him anyways. Its all a game to women like this BPD or not most women love the validation and attention of a male who cares, aka an emotional tampon or security blanket. Dont be that guy antonio... never be that guy.

[Infern0]

I don't think it's her age. She's 18.

Look we have all been young,  I was a but of an A-Hole when I was 18 but I certainly never behaved like that and neither did any of my girlfriends when I was young.

You can put some things down to age but it's not licence to act like an unhinged person.

[SlyQQ]

I have to care for a girl approaching 18 who is almost certainly BPD ( co morbid bipolar 1 ) The outline certainly fits I am also familiar with a large number of similarly aged teenage girls an few display those particular traits other than bi polar 1 it is often easy to confuse hi functioning aspergers with BPD ( although it is COMPLETELY different ) some of the real tell tales are confusion of angry face recognition and a warped empathy thar is eventually self centered has she threatened or attacked you after apparently being happy ( impulsivity / anger control ) after being happy a few moments before it is things like this that help tell the difference

[SlyQQ]

just to illucidate a point hi funtioning aspergers will not be able to read angry faces an will guess ( with accompanying hesitancy ) BPD will interpert faces with certainty ( though very often wrongly an act promptly an accordingly

[SlyQQ]

also meant bi polar 2 not 1 is easy to confuse with BPD not 1 it is just that i have to deal with bipolar 1 as well sorry

[antonio1213]

It could very well be a bit of both. But her BPD symptoms were really severe, especially during the beginning of our relationship. Toward the end she just had substance abuse and depression. I am pretty young but I am old enough to know that most teenagers are irrational at this age. It almost seemed like being in a relationship made her BPD symptoms flare up. Everytime I would talk to her about this she would tell me I am the only one who keeps her sane and I mean everything to her.

Before I met her: straight A student, Smoked and drank maybe once or twice a month, very social, had a lot of friends.

After she met me: BARLEY passed her senior year of high school, drank smoked and did other things constantly, didn't care about school, bad depressions, lost a lot of her friends, gave up going to a university and went to a tech. college to stay in a relationship with me, because she couldn't "live" without me.

I don't get it. I can see teenage behavior here. She is irrational like every other teenager out there. But she seems to be a lot more irrational and childlike than any other teenager girl I have ever met. So impulsive, selfish, needy, ANGRY, irrational, and just plain out unable to handle her emotions. Its hard for me to find what is borderline and what is typical teenager.

Her dad was abusive to her. She told me he never gives her love, she never feels like she is good enough for him, he yells at her and is old and grumpy. She told me he has never told her he loved her before. So that seems to be the root of her anger and craziness. Which would explain her BPD actions.

[christoff522]

I have posted on her a couple of times so I will make this one quick.

My exBPDgf told me a month ago she wanted a "break" from our relationship. It devastated me. She moved in with me, we started college together. We talked about marriage, kids, all that. She told me the typical "I can never imagine living without you" and "I can't live without you". We were even planning a camping trip the DAY BEFORE she told me she wanted a "break". Lke we were mapping out the expenses and everything.

Background info:

She moved in when she was 17, well a month before she turned 18, mainly because she couldn't handle being at her moms anymore. BEcause her mom was so strict and she wanted freedom. When she lived with me she used weed to "get away from her problems". She is very social and when we lived together we never really did anything, I know she didn't like that. I had a lot of problems going on in my family, I felt like I had to parent her, and I was starting college and working a part time job. (Family problem example: 1st week of college my mom tells us she is getting a separation with her husband and has to move in with us, it is my moms house btw).

She was so depressed in the weeks before her breaking away from me. She kept asking me if I was going to be with her forever. I know her dad gave her a talk about how it is human nature for guys to abandon girls or something like that and it freaked her out.

And so yeah….one day when I get back from work she is crying and telling me she has to move back in with her mom. The next day she scared me because she seemed detached from me like she had just split me from being her bf to a friend or guy she use to know. She seemed like an alien who changed from extreme love to being indifferent. She said she needed to "explore" wanted no limitations or restrictions and packed up her stuff and left.

I have been strict NC. She tells me she cares, misses me and still wants me in her life. Sounds like I am just her backup person. She rarely ever talks to me, only texted me once, emailed twice, and called maybe 3 times in one day. She left me voicemails telling me not to ignore her (her pet peeve) and that she wanted to make sure I was "ok". Sounds like BPD behavior. I was there for her through her HELL (cutting herself, depressions etc etc) and she probably thinks I will be there for her now.

Long story short I find lots of comfort in blaming her actions on her BPD, because she has it pretty bad. She is impulsive, angry, b___y, depressed, everything. But I dont want to be fooling myself here. Maybe it is just her age. I don't know. Every part of me wants to blame her BPD. Blaming her Bpd makes me able to heal faster.

What do you all think?

A lot of the stuff you've been told I experienced too. She told me she wanted to explore, "enjoy" her life and try new things. She blamed most of it on her ex as she had been "controlled" and "dominated" by her abusive ex. She wanted me to wait for her. The simple fact is this will all lead to a new boyfriend, new idealization etc. She will always find something better. Usually its simply an excuse to do new things, try new stuff and leave you behind. At least in my experience. I found that as I go out there, explored new stuff myself and gained confidence from within life for me got better. I outgrew her. Its not to say that you won't get hurt, won't recycle and try to win her back, she's a dominant force in your life and until you learn to remove that power she has over you you will find yourself pining for her and wanting what you dreamed of.

What you dream of though is just that, a dream. If you're dealing with a BPD you will pine, mope and be hurt by her actions, which are unintentional, selfish, and simply clinical, she's doing what she knows. I'm 28 and she's 17, I don't if your situation is similar to mine, but I can't honestly say its a good and healthy thing for me, I realise now months later that the relationship was her dreaming of a father, she put me in that position. My friend, anyone of that age is not worth the effort, even if she's normal it's unhealthy. 

So i've moved on, and you will too. Never lose hope, we all think that we're different and what we have is so much more and so more repairable than what everyone else here experiences, but it isn't. Good luck, as my british brothers say "chin up". You will be okay!

[christoff522]

Just to add, since my BPD, I've been with two different girls, one I pulled tonight. The age makes so much difference. In sept I had BPD on top of me in a field wanting to mate with me. Then a week later I'm on a date with a 22 year old who is humanly normal. We're there talking, hugging, and stuff, eating steak and I was like "woah, I'm enjoying myself". Theres no pressure. I know exactly whats going on in normal girl's head. But it's not for me so I move on.

Tonight, I'm in town, see a girl I know with some big burly guy next to her whom she most certainly didn't want around her. I start talking, next thing I know I'm at her house. Just got in.

I can see red flags, I can discern whether or not the situation is healthy. I can decide my own moves. I'm my own man again. 17/18 is a pointless age to contemplate future seeking relationships. Get yourself with girls older. Or if you are young DO NOT contemplate spending your life with them. If theres a chance they're BPD, forget romanticism and RUNNNNN.

Learn what it is to be a man, work on that, become a whole self, seek career and success first before you ever seek happiness in the arms of a woman. You cannot be happy seeking another person to make you complete. You are already complete. If you have feelings of emptiness, ask why, work on that. Trust me bro, dating is about two complete people complimenting one another. I pray that one day you see the truth in my words. Allow BPD girl to make you see your own flaws, and to find the answers to them. Do not try to heal or save someone else because you cannot do it.

[SlyQQ]

This is generally sound advice from many years of expierince i am over 50 and for various reasons have had maybe three 14 to 17 year olds hit on me really it is not worth the angst if in doubt bail out ( all attractive ) 

[Blimblam]

Antonio

No one here can diagnose your gf. It sounds like she has issues though and it's one of those things that reveal themselves over time.  You can focus on the behaviors and what you want out of a relationship. There's good tools on the staying board for dealing with a difficult person in a rs.  When I was 18 I had a rs with a borderline and I didn't realize it untill a decade later. There are a few signs that I can sort of spot as red flags now that I've been with a few.  There is also BPD traits and traits if other disorders and neurotic behavior.  I am familiar with the quiet borderline types and their are a few sort of giveaways.  It's not set in stone but each had mastered a particular sort of love at first sight type smile they use to validate and make connections with others. Their is a movie I think called geisha where they talk about this sort of facial expression.  It comes naturally to borderlines as a survival mechanism. This isn't a scientific tool to recognize them because it is a very specific facial expression. And it may be specific to quiet borderlines.  But the point is to learn red flags with relationships in general now while you are young. Dive into the specifics and the psychology it's better to learn these lessons now than later.

[antonio1213]

So basically it is a mix of both. I know she has BPD (heard it from two therapist, and dated her for 2.5 years) and I know that it isn't something I could handle for the rest of my life. She just seems to be going down a typical eighteen year old path of exploring and having fun.

Thanks for the advice. I just gotta learn to move on, I felt like I was dating a child for a lot of our relationship. Age seems to be a key factor here. But I just have trouble figuring out what is BPD and what is teenage girl. I will just let her explore and do whatever she needs too. She knows I won't be in the background faithfully waiting for her to settle down, Ill be gone.

Maybe I will try dating an older girl, one who doesn't have BPD and is mature.

[christoff522]

So basically it is a mix of both. I know she has BPD (heard it from two therapist, and dated her for 2.5 years) and I know that it isn't something I could handle for the rest of my life. She just seems to be going down a typical eighteen year old path of exploring and having fun.

She is exploring, she is enjoying life (on the surface). But unlike a normal 18 year old, every setback, every relationship breakup, every day she spends alone or with others ADDS to the disorder. Imagine you looked for people to love you, and always knew they'd abandon you, and then they abandon you. Again and again and again. it just feeds disorder. It also isn't the fault of the partner, because the BPD makes you leave. She will do all the things an 18 year old does because thats what all the 18 year olds are doing.

Thanks for the advice. I just gotta learn to move on, I felt like I was dating a child for a lot of our relationship. Age seems to be a key factor here. But I just have trouble figuring out what is BPD and what is teenage girl. I will just let her explore and do whatever she needs too. She knows I won't be in the background faithfully waiting for her to settle down, Ill be gone.

Maybe I will try dating an older girl, one who doesn't have BPD and is mature.

You were dating a child, their emotional level is between about 3 and 5.

Symptoms of BPD include (some more common than others): neurosis, psychosis, excessive episodes of anger, heightened immaturity (beyond the normal age), push-pull behaviour, forgetting emotional episodes, inability to empathise with others, hatefulness towards close loved ones (usually the mother), cutting, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts, OCD, eating disorders, and probably much much more.

Yes, she needs to know you're gone. Expect her to reach out when she feels for sure that you're gone in order to pull you back. If you date someone else it'll probably kill any hopes she has of a recycle.

[Bak86]

So basically it is a mix of both. I know she has BPD (heard it from two therapist, and dated her for 2.5 years) and I know that it isn't something I could handle for the rest of my life. She just seems to be going down a typical eighteen year old path of exploring and having fun.

She is exploring, she is enjoying life (on the surface). But unlike a normal 18 year old, every setback, every relationship breakup, every day she spends alone or with others ADDS to the disorder. Imagine you looked for people to love you, and always knew they'd abandon you, and then they abandon you. Again and again and again. it just feeds disorder. It also isn't the fault of the partner, because the BPD makes you leave. She will do all the things an 18 year old does because thats what all the 18 year olds are doing.

Thanks for the advice. I just gotta learn to move on, I felt like I was dating a child for a lot of our relationship. Age seems to be a key factor here. But I just have trouble figuring out what is BPD and what is teenage girl. I will just let her explore and do whatever she needs too. She knows I won't be in the background faithfully waiting for her to settle down, Ill be gone.

Maybe I will try dating an older girl, one who doesn't have BPD and is mature.

You were dating a child, their emotional level is between about 3 and 5.

Symptoms of BPD include (some more common than others): neurosis, psychosis, excessive episodes of anger, heightened immaturity (beyond the normal age), push-pull behaviour, forgetting emotional episodes, inability to empathise with others, hatefulness towards close loved ones (usually the mother), cutting, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts, OCD, eating disorders, and probably much much more.

Yes, she needs to know you're gone. Expect her to reach out when she feels for sure that you're gone in order to pull you back. If you date someone else it'll probably kill any hopes she has of a recycle.

It really doesn't matter if you will date someone. They will still probably reach out somehow.

[antonio1213]

Even if she does reach out I will continue NC. I am really proud of myself I have been 1 month strong of NC even though she has reached out to me multiple times. I am just afraid she will sabotage any future relationships I might have, or try to butt her way into them. I told her "This is probably the last time I will see you" when I moved her stuff in her house, and I really meant it. She hasn't contacted me in almost a week. Hopefully I won't hear from her again (secretly I want to though).

And she defiantly has the emotional capacity of a 3 year old. Which stumps me because she can be so brilliant. She could study 20 minutes before a hard test and ace it, yet can't control her anger or emotions.

She doesn't seem to be that affected right now that I am not in her life. She says she is but her actions aren't matching her words. I am afraid of when she does come around (if ever) and tries to draw me back in, especially if I am just then moving on.

Its painful being used, than put into a box for them to open whenever they need you while they go out and do their own thing. It doesn't help that she is very attractive and has guys all over her either

[christoff522]

Even if she does reach out I will continue NC. I am really proud of myself I have been 1 month strong of NC even though she has reached out to me multiple times. I am just afraid she will sabotage any future relationships I might have, or try to butt her way into them. I told her "This is probably the last time I will see you" when I moved her stuff in her house, and I really meant it. She hasn't contacted me in almost a week. Hopefully I won't hear from her again (secretly I want to though).

Good honesty, Simple fact is, the longer you go NC, the more attempted contacts will decline.

And she defiantly has the emotional capacity of a 3 year old. Which stumps me because she can be so brilliant. She could study 20 minutes before a hard test and ace it, yet can't control her anger or emotions.

BPD doesn't really seem to affect anything other than interpersonal relationships, and their physical health. They are totally capable of living an apparently normal life.

She doesn't seem to be that affected right now that I am not in her life. She says she is but her actions aren't matching her words. I am afraid of when she does come around (if ever) and tries to draw me back in, especially if I am just then moving on.

She is affected, she will have a lot of anger, self-hatred, and the usual "my bf is gone" emotions - Much of which is being focused on blaming you. This is calling 'painting black'.

Its painful being used, than put into a box for them to open whenever they need you while they go out and do their own thing. It doesn't help that she is very attractive and has guys all over her either

Try to think of her as being without BPD. Imagine she was a normal girl, and you constantly had to contend with bad moods, slVtty behaviour, and beta orbiters everywhere. Would you stick it out just cos she's hot? What about her personality, what makes her so special? You have to think in these terms, drop the BPD and just treat her as a bad girl, it makes things a LOT easier, and stops you making the "well, she is ill" excuse

[antonio1213]

thanks christoff522 for the input. I wasn't just with her because she was attractive, I did like a good portion of her personality and we did have fun together. But I couldn't see myself spending the rest of my life with her. Everytime we talked about having kids or something of course I wanted too but in the back of my head I always said "I am not having kids with you", mainly because of how crazy she was.

She has split me black. Well at least I think. She says she cares about me and still loves me and stuff. But I guess if she really did she would try to contact me more, but she BARLEY does. So maybe I am not ALL black, like she doesn't hate me or anything, I just don't matter anymore. Does she have to hate you for you to be painted black? Because I feel like she doesn't hate me but she defiantly devalued me from "the love of her life" and "can't live without you" to not talking to me and not wanting me all within a day or two.

And I will stop using the "she is ill" excuse. It just makes the b/u easier, and helps me heal faster.