My first communications after the cheating stops

[Grey Kitty]

I have a long thread about my wife cheating on me. Tomorrow she's flying out of the city where the guy she's cheating with lives, but not back to me.

I'm mostly NC with her--I intended to send her an email exactly a week ago, but I think it never went to her. The last email I am sure I sent was 10 days ago. The last voice conversation was also a week ago. This was just before her cheating progressed from kissing to sex. (This is what she told me she would do.) My last text was 4 days ago, and a combination of unemotional business and saying I felt safer keeping my distance.

She has been reaching out to me regularly by FB chat, txt, and email, mostly sweet nothings, along with some questions about plans around Thanksgiving, which is the soonest we might be physically reunited. Planning it soon makes sense from the point of view of getting affordable plane tickets.

Right now I'm planning to send her an email while she is flying--I've already spent too much energy trying to influence her behavior while she's with this guy, I'm trying to take that motivation away from myself by waiting until she's left. I want to set the tone before she arrives and contacts me though. Draft #1 follows:



Wife,

I am keeping a lot of distance from you very intentionally. I am trying to save our marriage, not end it.

I have a lot I need to process and figure out right now. Part of it is your cheating with [guy].

I expect I will want to talk with you about it. I'll let you know when I'm ready for that.

I cannot find it in me to care about small issues like where you or I spend Thanksgiving until I've resolved bigger issues with you. I hope your plans can stay on hold until then.



Comments? Suggestions? Thoughts?

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[Jessica84]

Hi Grey Kitty,

I've read your story with some interest for awhile now. I've been at a loss as to what to say. Cheating is so painful and unforgievable to me I don't know that I could handle it. I'm glad that people much wiser than me are helping guide you through this. I just wanted to tell you how much I admire your strength and ability to stay so calm, rational, and also caring and thoughtful toward your wife through all of this.

I live by a motto that kindness is never wrong. That includes showing kindness to ourselves. Your letter is both kind to you, and to her. It also honors truth in a respectful way. Good for you. Hoping for a good outcome for you and your family.

[Grey Kitty]

I just wanted to tell you how much I admire your strength and ability to stay so calm, rational, and also caring and thoughtful toward your wife through all of this.

 Thank you. Hearing that you care matters. (I almost put a "just" in front of that sentence; I've been watching myself minimize my feelings in that way, and going back to edit the "just" out. As a dear friend of mine says, words are important.)

For the record... .I have not always managed to stay calm, rational, caring, kind, and thoughtful. I was hurting, desperate, begging, angry, and a piece of work. And expressed more of this to her than was useful in the week she told me she was going to do this.

The one I'm trying to stop is being rational/analytical. I've found that my pattern is to check out instead of feeling. This is NOT serving me well. It is a hard habit to break.

[Jessica84]

So true about the word "just". It does have a minimizing effect, doesn't it? I started using that word more and more often to minimize any harshness since emails and texts lack tone - my BPDexbf often resorted to written communication when he was too unstable to talk on the phone or in person. Then I found myself using it a lot in work emails. I finally realized not everyone was as hypersensitive, but what a hard habit to break!

Speaking of your hard habit to break, I have the opposite problem. Rather than "checking out" by being rational and analytical, I would too often give in to my feelings (tossing logic out the window). Developing a habit to be more calm, rational, logical has actually helped me control my feelings better. I still feel them, but now I can identify them and act accordingly. Perhaps it's all about balance -- listening to our heart and mind simultaneously?

[Grey Kitty]

There is a balance between feeling and thinking.

The balance I try to achieve is one where the feeling tells me what is important. That means sit with my feelings and be with them, whether I'm feeling hurt, angry, joyful, grateful, sad, whatever. Perhaps because I'm going along with something that doesn't fit my values.

Being with feelings is a critical middle ground. Checking out and stuffing doesn't work well for me. Immediately reacting with action to your feelings (what you describe) also lets you avoid sitting with your feelings.

Only after this can we think and respond well.

Looking at the last couple weeks, I did get lost in the feelings and just react. It didn't stop my wife from cheating. Not that I believe I could have done anything which would have.

What I have found amazing in the last couple days is that after sitting with my feelings, I've made choices which were "right" for me in far bigger ways than I understood when I chose.



Thank you for that digression! I would like to re-invite the community (and you!) here to comment on my draft email.

[Jessica84]

I can only speak as a non-BP female, but I would consider swapping the first 2 sentences - stating first your intentions, then asking for time to process - instead of "I'm not talking to you on purpose, but I want to save our marriage" - it would read more like "I want to save our marriage, but I need time to process... "

Then again, I have no idea how a pwBPD would interpret it...

I've said things like "oh look it's raining today", and he heard "you hate being stuck inside with me, don't you?" Wow.

[Grey Kitty]

Thanks Jessica. That makes two people who noticed that statement.

I also shared the gist of it to a dear friend who is helping me work though this. Her reaction was that skepticism about including statement about wanting to save the marriage at all. Moving on to my thoughts:

1: I'm not concerned about my wife dysregulating BPD-style in response--She really has stopped doing that sort of BPD behavior. I can't be in her head, but I believe that the emotional stuff at the core of that sort of behavior seems gone too.

2: If I wanted to end the marriage I would be asking for that instead of asking for space. She's smart enough to connect the dots herself.

3: Telling her this would be an empty assurance anyhow--Like saying "I have no reason to lie to you." -- True, perhaps, but not something that will convince somebody of your truthfulness.

4: I'm not wanting to scare my wife or reassure her. I really don't care much about what she's going through.

All I really want to communicate is that I still need space from her.

Draft #2:



Wife,

I have a lot I need to process and figure out right now. Part of it is your cheating with [guy]. I'm maintaining distance from you while I work on it.

I'll let you know when I'm ready to talk to you about it.

I need to resolve bigger issues with you before I can care about things like where you or I spend Thanksgiving. I hope your plans can stay on hold until then.

Me

[myself]

This second draft sounds good, Grey Kitty.

Calmly and straightforwardly speaking for yourself.

The door still open for both of you, for when the time comes.

[Jessica84]

Draft #2 looks good to me.

[vortex of confusion]

Draft #2:



Wife,

I have a lot I need to process and figure out right now. Part of it is your cheating with [guy]. I'm maintaining distance from you while I work on it.

I'll let you know when I'm ready to talk to you about it.

I need to resolve bigger issues with you before I can care about things like where you or I spend Thanksgiving. I hope your plans can stay on hold until then.

Me

One question: If you say that part of it is her cheating with [guy] will she take that to mean that other cheating behavior is okay? I am thinking about how my husband might read something like this.

"I have a lot I need to process and figure out right now. I'm maintaining distance from you while I work on it.

I'll let you know when I'm ready to talk to you about it.

I need to resolve bigger issues with you, such as your cheating, before I can care about things like where you or I spend Thanksgiving. I hope your plans can stay on hold until then."

[Grey Kitty]

Thanks, VOC. I shared the draft with my friend too, and her comment was that the part about cheating could be done so as to speak of my feelings. Especially because nobody can argue with me about what I'm feeling.

I'm going to sit with this one a bit and see how my feelings flow into it... .My starting point is going to be "betrayal". I've got a couple hours before I'm going to send the email.

[Grey Kitty]

In my best Marvin the Martian Voice: "There was supposed to be an earth shattering kaboom."

Here's what I sent:

Subject: Space

Wife,

I have a lot I need to process and figure out. I feel hurt, betrayed, and exhausted. I'm maintaining distance from you while I work through it.

I'll let you know when I'm ready to talk to you about it.

I need to resolve bigger issues with you before I can care about things like where you or I spend Thanksgiving. I hope your plans can stay on hold until then.

(Me)

My good supportive friend has been telling me that I'll know when I'm ready to talk to her. I'm pretty sure I'm not yet. So far she's been incredibly helpful, and incredibly right about it, so I'm just going to trust that I will know.

I think that's going to be when I can keep any discussion of the cheating on topic as it needs to be without letting her send me off down a rabbit hole, or otherwise reacting instead of responding.

One thing I have come to terms with is that my wife has had some sort of obsession with an uninterrupted series of men over about a decade (up through today. I haven't heard if the latest one has stopped yet or not! And I'm not ready to ask!) Sometimes her behavior has been cheating. Other times not. But the obsession seems pretty constant. The tough part is that this is NOT my problem, it is hers. If it moves on to become cheating, it becomes my problem.

[Grey Kitty]

And I also blocked the guy on facebook. But not in time. Saw that my wife had posted a pic, and tagged him and suggested it as a new profile pic for him, along with some sort of inspirational quote that #$@#$%  pissed me off.

I wanted to wait until she left so that I wasn't creating drama while this was going on... .but I wanted to protect myself from any more experiences with this... .errr... .uhm... .not sure what noun to use for the guy she was cheating with. (None that I considered were flattering!)

Too late. I was hoping to protect myself from that. Sigh.

[patientandclear]

Kitty, I really like the message you sent. I don't think you'll regret that message at all.

Can I ask, though, why you're so resentful of this guy? He has no duties or obligations toward you or your marriage. Your wife does. I admit this may make me an outlier given the way extramarital affairs are often discussed, but it seems to me antagonism toward the person who was violating no promises to anyone involved usually is diverted anger that belongs with the "fulcrum" partner in the marriage and affair.

Anyway, wishing you strength and wisdom. Glad you have the good friend in your corner -- this is a good time to have someone to double check reactions with.

[Grey Kitty]

P&C, Thanks.

As for diverted anger to the guy from my wife, yes that is a concern. It is what I was trying to protect myself from when I blocked him. (Too late, I got a blast of it!)

I'm only a little resentful of this guy--I hardly knew him, he hardly knew me. His betrayal of me is real, but small. If I knew he had done something like this with the wife of one of my friends, I'd be less angry with him... .but reach the same conclusion: I want nothing more to do with him.

Seeing evidence of my wife spending time with him, lavishing affection on him, etc., etc., etc. will just PISSES ME OFF. I don't want to be ambushed by that.

Why am I done with him?

1: Actions: I told him that I did not consent his having sex with my wife. He acknowledged that he heard it, and gave me some vague new-agey bullsh$t about how he couldn't agree to that because of some vague ethical-sounding reasons about helping my wife.

This violates two big values of mine: First consent in romantic relationships. Second, truthfulness

2: Suspicions/impressions: My friend who is supporting me on this commented that her initial impression of him was that what she saw of him made her not want to know any more of him. I could go into more detail... .but the short version is that he appears to be the "sensitive new-age guy" pickup artist type.

[patientandclear]

Eewwww. That makes me squirm just reading that description. Sounds like you read him as an opportunist.

That stuff on FB must have been very unpleasant to see.  For what it's worth, I've found exposure to that sort of thing helpful to a point--helpful in keeping me anchored in reality, when I wanted to idealize my special bond with my ex wBPD. But once you accept whatever the lesson is, then more such material doesn't really add anything.

Hugs and more hugs.

[Grey Kitty]

Eewwww. That makes me squirm just reading that description. Sounds like you read him as an opportunist.

Yup, I think opportunist applies. I agree--he is squirm-worthy. In addition, he seems to pursue/take advantage of mentally unhealthy women.

His other r/s involves a woman about half his age (30's)... .who has dis-associative disorder, had one of those amazingly messed up childhood/teen histories, and is in a (apparently messy/dysfunctional) poly r/s with a bunch of people, some of which have demanded she stop seeing this guy, which she agreed to do, but he still thinks of her has his primary r/s.

When he met my wife, she was coming out of grief for losing her lover a year ago... .which had her depressed (old problem for her) and facing anxiety attacks unlike anything she'd had before. She also has a manic tendency to pick a guy besides me and obsess on him... .of course that looks different when it is aimed at you.

As I said. I have no use for him in my life. The less I think about his douche-baggery, the better. I have enough to process regarding my wife before I'm ready to talk to her about moving our lives forward together or apart.

 I'm not normally this vitriolic against people. I guess I really do need to work through some of this anger.

Even when I do get past the anger, I still don't see myself having any use for him.

[takingandsending]

GK,

I haven't been on the boards much, so I read the evolution of your letter and was getting ready to jump in and say, "You're missing what your feeling!", but you got it! 

I am in agreement with patientandclear, though. No matter how manipulative or unethical the dude may be, you need to get clear on how and why you ended up here. Feel your anger, but understand it with clarity. That will give you the strength to address the how and why, because clearly, right now something is going strongly against the core of who you are and what you believe.

And I am terribly sorry that this happened to you. You are a strong, calm person on the outside, but I think you have to sail through the storms on the inside to know how to maintain self love and self kindness. From there, you can extend loving kindness to your spouse, to speak what needs to be spoken and listen to her story with clarity. I wish it were easier. Many hugs.

[Grey Kitty]

Thanks!   All the support here really means a lot to me.

You're missing what your feeling!

Yes, I was leaving the feelings out of it.

It wasn't that I didn't have the feelings.

I had already shared some of those feelings with my wife, a week ago, with more intensity and less control than I really wanted looking back.

Right now, I don't feel very safe sharing feelings like that with my wife. She hasn't been respectful of my feelings like these.

I could say a lot more about them, and do to people who support me.

I think I'll be able to speak clearly on them when I'm ready to talk to my wife.

[MaybeSo]

One thing I have come to terms with is that my wife has had some sort of obsession with an uninterrupted series of men over about a decade (up through today. I haven't heard if the latest one has stopped yet or not! And I'm not ready to ask!) Sometimes her behavior has been cheating. Other times not. But the obsession seems pretty constant. The tough part is that this is NOT my problem, it is hers. If it moves on to become cheating, it becomes my problem.

Same in my relationship.

Seen from a very broad context, this is about blowing-up the intimacy that is generated in a two -person system by introducing a third, over and over again.

I have considered in the past, briefly, maybe adopting a more ‘open relationship’ lifestyle so that all deception is eliminated and me and my partner could have a more authentic relationship w/n a more alternative life-style setting.  I’ve even chatted briefly with you about such ideas in the past on this forum.

In my heart of hearts, I knew it wasn’t the answer.  I knew the issue wasn’t about sex at all, but about blowing-up the intimacy that is created when we are close.  And his usual way of doing that is to introduce a third, whatever that might be…often it’s another women.  But it can also be an obsession with a project, etc.

I also knew in my heart that whatever rules we put in place to keep us safe w/n the confines of an open relationship…would still get blown-up b/c it has to, to serve the purpose of disrupting intimacy.  So, I knew, even if I agreed to an open r/s and there were certain persons he could ‘be with’…he would no doubt, eventually choose to be with an off-limits person.  My becoming more “open” or embracing an alternative lifestyle doesn’t fix that he needs to blow-up intimacy, in whatever form it takes.  

I’m sorry to hear that something like this may be happening in your case. Because it is felt as a betrayal, and it is very painful.

You have been more than reasonable.  

[Grey Kitty]

Thanks for your thoughts! I am amazed by your insight.

In my heart of hearts, I knew it wasn’t the answer.  I knew the issue wasn’t about sex at all, but about blowing-up the intimacy that is created when we are close.  And his usual way of doing that is to introduce a third, whatever that might be…often it’s another women.  But it can also be an obsession with a project, etc.

I never thought of my wife's actions in this context--that they are consistently very effective at blowing up intimacy with me. It is inescapably true.

I don't understand how or why. I'm not sure deep in my heart that this is what is happening--It may still be something else that my wife needs which drives this, and the blowing up of our marriage is secondary rather than primary.

Then again, I may be gobsmacked with the realization/certainty of this in the middle of the night.

Whatever... .I don't need to understand what or why--that is her journey, not mine.

Mine is to find a path where I can flourish in my life, knowing that this sort of sabotage/rejection can and likely will come from my wife.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm thinking about my next step. I'm not feeling ready for a conversation with my wife yet.

I got what I asked for--no contact from her since my last email. I wasn't feeling good about the contact I had been getting.

I'm feeling uncomfortable about the lack of contact, wondering what she is thinking and doing. I know that the uncomfortable feeling is not a good enough reason to contact her in itself.

There is one thing that's bugging me. She offered to cut contact with this guy upon flying away... .until I was OK with it back before she had sex with him. She even promised not to bug me constantly about letting her get back with him.

I told her that I didn't believe her offer at the time. And I'm really not sure if she can cut contact with him... .or more accurately, drop her obsession with him.

However... .If she can't, any hope I've got for her being trustworthy going forward is blown. So this does matter.

What I *REALLY* want to avoid is making this a negotiation with her over this guy. The best way to win a debate is to frame the question your way, and I don't want to let her do this.

Draft of email #2 follows:



Wife,

You offered to cut all contact with [guy] as soon as you got on the plane yesterday.

I hope you have already done this.

I need this in order to start trusting you again.

Me



I've not put much of my feelings in there. I'm struggling with this.

I also feel like I'm playing some emotional poker game with her, and I hate that aspect.

I'm not sure how I can do this without being vulnerable. And I'm not sure I'm ready to let myself be vulnerable to her, instead of playing games. 

[vortex of confusion]

There is one thing that's bugging me. She offered to cut contact with this guy upon flying away... .until I was OK with it back before she had sex with him. She even promised not to bug me constantly about letting her get back with him.

First, don't bring this up until you are ready to hear the answer. I know that when I would ask my husband about certain things he would sometimes tell me what he thought I wanted to hear rather than the truth. Can you trust that the answer that your wife gives you will be the truth?

I told her that I didn't believe her offer at the time. And I'm really not sure if she can cut contact with him... .or more accurately, drop her obsession with him.

If you doubt that she can do it, why ask her about it? You are setting both of you up for a potentially push/pull situation.

However... .If she can't, any hope I've got for her being trustworthy going forward is blown. So this does matter.

Only you can say whether or not this matters. I got to a point where I had to decide whether or not I could live with the uncertainties. That is a decision that only you can make.

What I *REALLY* want to avoid is making this a negotiation with her over this guy. The best way to win a debate is to frame the question your way, and I don't want to let her do this.

No, the best way to win a debate is to not participate at all. If you know that what you say is going to start a debate, then don't do it because it will just start a cycle that you may not like.

Draft of email #2 follows:



Wife,

You offered to cut all contact with [guy] as soon as you got on the plane yesterday.

I hope you have already done this.

I need this in order to start trusting you again.

Me

I wouldn't recommend sending this unless you can be certain that her answer is truthful. If you cannot be sure of that, then you are just torturing yourself. Are you being honest with yourself and her when you say that you need her to cut contact in order to start trusting her again? Will that really be enough?

[Grey Kitty]

VOC, thanks for your input. I guess there are some things in my email that aren't quite clear:

1.I do not believe that cutting contact with him will be sufficient for me to trust her.

It is a first step. It is necessary, but not sufficient by itself.

2. This isn't a request or a question. I won't debate it with her.

You are correct--I don't really want to know yet.

It is more a matter of sharing my expectation, and clarifying that it still matters to me.

I'm going to chew on this some more before I do another draft. I invite your further thoughts (or anybody else's).

[MissyM]

Wife,

You offered to cut all contact with [guy] as soon as you got on the plane yesterday.

I hope you have already done this.

I need this in order to start trusting you again.

Hmm, perhaps starting with you would like to build back up to trusting her and work on your marriage?  Then list out the things that you will need for that.  Seems silly but if I put that my intention is to work on our marriage because I loved my husband, he was more receptive to hearing what I needed.   

As far as the intimacy approach.  Yes, at heart this is about fear of intimacy for my dBPDh.  My dBPDh has a huge fear of intimacy and will sabotage our relationship when we get too close.  This has happened in many ways, not just cheating.  As he gets more in touch with the fear and faces it head on, he lessens the push/pull. 

Again, I want to tell you how sorry I am that you are going through this.  Having our spouse betray us in this way is just gut wrenching. 

[vortex of confusion]

It is more a matter of sharing my expectation, and clarifying that it still matters to me.

I'm going to chew on this some more before I do another draft. I invite your further thoughts (or anybody else's).

And I noticed that you didn't really put any emphasis on how YOU are feeling about all this. It seems a bit focused on her. Perhaps something along the lines of: I am feeling really insecure about our relationship. I would feel much better knowing where things stand between you and [guy]. I don't think I will be able to move forward in our relationship without knowing that you have cut contact with [guy].

Just throwing out some ideas for you to ponder.  I would definitely recommend focusing more on you and how you feel and what you need. It is a whole lot more difficult for them to argue about your feelings.

[takingandsending]

Grey Kitty,

When you first did boundary work in your RS, you found things that you really could not compromise without losing your self, without the reward of being in relationship outweighing the cost. Can you share those basic values?

And can you look again within yourself and find the basic values that you need to protect to keep your self? And does the reward of the RS outweigh not protecting those values? Does this thought process help?

In my mind, I have made infidelity the Rubicon, but truthfully if I were faced with it, I don't know what I would do. Certain I'd be soul searching for answers

[takingandsending]

On the lighter side, pwBPD give us infinite opportunities to figure out our own sh!t. 

[KateCat]

I think your very recent message to your wife was a masterpiece of maturity and gravity. The present silence is an important product of that message, isn't it? Time for fundamental, essential reflection on the part of both parties?

For my money, you will do well to preserve this moment--now full of significance--by not sending a quick stream of follow-up communications.

[Grey Kitty]

When you first did boundary work in your RS, you found things that you really could not compromise without losing your self, without the reward of being in relationship outweighing the cost. Can you share those basic values?

My initial boundaries were against verbal/emotional abuse, and the associated head-games behaviors like circular arguments, projection, and gaslighting. They were simple and (relatively) easy boundaries to enforce--immediate disengagement was the only action required of me. The silent treatment was tougher. I could leave, and that often did help... .but didn't fix it.

Values? kindness and respect of others, I guess.

Infidelity* is the one I'm bumping up against now--and it may well be the one I end our marriage over. I am willing to have a non-monogamous relationship--I spent a year where both I and my wife had other lovers. There was lots of learning, lots of drama, and plenty of mistakes. Despite this, it really did seem to work for me. My personal definition of infidelity is sexual and/or romantic involvement without consent by all parties.



I'm still thinking about what I want or need to say. Thanks for these observations:

And I noticed that you didn't really put any emphasis on how YOU are feeling about all this. It seems a bit focused on her.

Hmm, perhaps starting with you would like to build back up to trusting her and work on your marriage?  Then list out the things that you will need for that.  Seems silly but if I put that my intention is to work on our marriage because I loved my husband, he was more receptive to hearing what I needed.

I took a walk and did some thinking. One thing which came to me was the issue of being vulnerable to my wife. I *AM* vulnerable to her. Pretending I'm not isn't going to help me.

I still hate the feeling an emotional poker game.

There is an image I've got... .a graphic of a crumpled and flattened piece of paper with these words:

Trust

is like paper

Once it's crumpled,

It can never be

perfect again.

I could include the image. I don't think I will though.



Wife,

I am struggling to figure out if I can trust you again. I am feeling violated and betrayed by you more than I ever felt before.

You offered to cut all contact with [guy] as soon as you got on the plane Sunday.

This would be a good first step toward rebuilding trust.

Me