Anger

[Aussie JJ]

Hi all,

From the forgiveness theme there was a lot of anger, justifiable at times as well.  I want to discuss it a bit further.  It was apparent that forgiveness is a choice we all make.  We all have different views on the topic however we all have anger at times and process it different ways.  

Anger is an emotional response related to one's psychological interpretation of having been threatened. Often it indicates when one's basic boundaries are violated. Some have a learned tendency to react to anger through retaliation. Anger may be utilized effectively when utilized to set boundaries or escape from dangerous situations.

Wikipedia being the source.  

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anger

Is our Anger resentment as well, what does it do for us, is it healthy?  

Resentments are often justified - but are they helpful?  

So how does a little venting hurt us?  When we are resentful, we try to balance the wrongs we feel by demeaning the person that hurt us.  We bash them, feel disgust for them, feel hatred or look down in pity... .we may even wish them harm or lash out to hurt them or their reputation.

The problem for us is that we create a dysfunctional and false reality to sooth our pain.  

For myself, I am still angry on some days however keep asking myself constantly what is the reason, resentment, frustration, guilt?

Each have their own reasons, a lot of mine comes from a broken promise I made.  I cant for-fill what I wanted out of the relationship as she isn't willing t live up to those same standards.  

Chip in with your own views here.  


AJJ.  

[neverloveagain]

Anger is ok its part of the process of leaving its cool to feel it, but dont let it consume you or tour being because its negarive use then. Get angry lift weights exercise go jogging whatever suits your life make it better you not hold you back. Its ok to own them feelings but keep pushing forward i feel your pain be good buddy

[Aussie JJ]

For me,

My anger is from what it is not.  What I had envisioned it to be was all a false reality. 

I promised to work through anything and everything, always be there and not leave.  Supported her in everything she wanted to do.  I would have worked through anything. 

My anger comes from the fact that the person whom I had chosen to work through anything with is unwilling to do the same.  She blames, rages and takes no  accountability.  For me this is something I have done to an extent however I have worked through it. 

My anger is actually that it is what it is and no amount of work I do can resolve the problems that she bought to the table.  I am more angry at the shattering of that false reality and the implication that all that effort was for nothing.  Like I wasted a period of my life on her. 

I know that isn't true, but that is what my anger is at the moment, more angry at myself than her and projecting it onto her.  Why couldn't she be the same?  That's the question that drives my anger. 


AJJ. 

[Mutt]

Is our Anger resentment as well, what does it do for us, is it healthy?  

Resentments are often justified - but are they helpful?  

Is it healthy and helpful is a good question. Healthy anger is good. Depression can be anger turned inward.

When I met my ex partner I was in my early 30's. I struggled with depression and anxiety through my 20's and it was hard. Not a decade that I have fond memories of.

I believe now those depressive episodes were stemmed from resentment I had from my FOO. The death of my mother and a narcissistic father. I had feelings of anger towards god for taking my mom away and tremendous anger and resentment towards an invalidating and unloving father. That said, that same anger became anxiety and depression and very difficult to cope with.  

I was depressed when I met my ex with borderline personality traits and the idealization phase felt like it made those blue feelings go away unbeknownst to me at that time. I was receiving validation from being put on a pedestal that I lacked in my FOO and I wasn't giving myself because of feelings of low self worth.

I can't blame my ex or have feelings of resentment towards her because of that fact. I was carrying a lot of emotional baggage. One being anger that led to resentment and turned into depression. I got hooked on her idealization because of that and a lack of boundaries because I was a codependent enabler. Resentment became very unhealthy for me. I chose to work and let go of those emotional connections. Let go or be dragged and my past certainly kept me stuck.

[myself]

I haven't had too much anger in this final breakup, but one thing that can still stir it up is what you're saying here. What is not. I wonder what she says when asked about me/her last relationship? "He was so nice, and genuinely loved me, but I can't deal with being close with anyone so ran away and broke both our hearts?" Or does she continue making it up as she goes, scapegoating me, claiming her projections were my actual actions? Getting sympathy for something that isn't true? Yes, I'm letting go/moving on/detaching. Making my own best ending. Facing the often frustrating facts.

[Mutt]

What I had envisioned

The future is unknown. The present has endless possibilities.

that it is what it is

Radically accepting things for what they are.

I am more angry at the shattering of that false reality and the implication that all that effort was for nothing.  Like I wasted a period of my life on her.

The effort is not for nothing or a waste. There are very valuable lessons that can be learned if we work through anger and don't let anger cloud the mind. Anger is also a natural grieving stage. I found I gained more than I lost.

[Deeno02]

I haven't had too much anger in this final breakup, but one thing that can still stir it up is what you're saying here. What is not. I wonder what she says when asked about me/her last relationship? "He was so nice, and genuinely loved me, but I can't deal with being close with anyone so ran away and broke both our hearts?" Or does she continue making it up as she goes, scapegoating me, claiming her projections were my actual actions? Getting sympathy for something that isn't true? Yes, I'm letting go/moving on/detaching. Making my own best ending. Facing the often frustrating facts.

They have to paint a picture for the replacement, just like they painted one for us. It never ends. They aren't going to say that we were the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I decided to run anyway. We are now the bad guys. Damn right I'm angry.

[Mutt]

Damn right I'm angry.

As you should feel anger. I'm sorry she devalued you.

Anger is an emotional response related to one's psychological interpretation of having been threatened. Often it indicates when one's basic boundaries are violated

It's a natural emotional response.

[Pingo]

When I was in the middle of the BU and having no idea what he would do or how things would pan out, I was super angry but I think it was covering up huge fear.  And after the BU when he left me with thousands of dollars of debt and wouldn't give me back my stuff and I had to go out and spend hundreds to replace my stuff, I was super angry!  But what I have found surprising is the level of anger I have discovered in myself against my FOO.  This BU has really opened a gaping wound that originates in a very unhappy childhood.  In learning about abuse since the BU and going to T I have come to realise how abused I was as a child.  I have spent a lifetime denying, numbing and running away from the pain and anger.  It's all come to a head right now and it is overwhelming!  Sometimes it's turned inwards and I get pretty depressed.  Especially for a week once a month!  Then at other times I really want to lash out and express to my crazy mother how she really messed me up!  Except I have already been down that road and she can't hear me!  We've been estranged for 4 1/2 yrs because I couldn't cope with her!  I'm even way more angry at my first husband (non) lately!  We have a son together and we've been divorced for 5 yrs.  I used to tolerate him and put on a smile for my son's sake but lately I have zero tolerance for any bull___!  And he's full of bull___!  I have to have contact with him but lately I have put my foot down and said I'll only communicate by email except for emergencies.  He's hating this and fighting me every step of the way! So I know all about anger except that it is coming up in ways I never expected.  And it's all tied into my desire to establish boundaries and the fact that these people have challenged me every step of the way!

[Turkish]

I read through this short article and realized that I mostly display my anger by shutting down. I was passive, my Ex was mostly aggressive though she could sometimes shut down. Maybe some insight can be had here. From the article:

www.uhs.berkeley.edu/facstaff/pdf/care/Understanding%20anger.pdf

Myths about Anger

1. Ignore it and it will go away

Reality : If we have a feeling that persists and we deny it, it will manifest in other indirect, usually more harmful ways.

2. Time heals all wounds

Reality: Unless emotions are resolved they will fester.

3.  Let it out and you'll feel better.

Reality: Reactive expression of anger may provide a momentary subjective sense of relief, yet habitual blowing up harms one's physical health. In addition, habitual blowing up builds and reinforces neurological paths that make it harder to remain calm. And last but not least, relationships you want in your life such as your job, the connection with your spouse or partner, your friends, children, etc., may be destroyed by persistent displays of anger.

4.  If I'm not angry others will walk all over me

Reality: Anger frequentl y gets results in the short term , and therefore is an easy habit to develop. However, in the long term, it pushes people away and makes one lose credibility.

5. I can't help it, I'm an angry person

Reality: This attitude confuses fe eling and acting, leaving you at the mercy of ever-fluctuating emotions.

6. It's other people and situations that make me angry

Reality: Not everybody gets angry at the same things. We make ourselves angry by the way in which we interpret events. Also, if we choose this stance, we allow circumstances outside of ourselves to control our peace of mind.

1 and 2 remind me that NC or LC, while necessary in perhaps all Leaving relationships, are steps in what hopefully is a healing process. Time can temper volitile emotions, but time marches on inexorably. We have to do something on the inside to move on. While in counseling, I was stuck in analytical mode for many months.

My T was happy when I finally started to express anger, as he had yet to see it. He then tried to help me move past that: "I sense a lot of your anger stems from expecting her to be someone she is not rather than accepting her for who she is."

#5: pwBPD.

#6: my struggle with mindfullness and trying to use the Wisemind, rather than vacilating between emotion and logic.

I'm still angry, I admit it. Certain incidents as a coparent with her still piss me off. I try to remember that she is limited emotionally in some ways, and that is just who she is. Related to this point, but from the point of view of a r/s partner, my Ex may be further along here than I am.

[Mutt]

And it's all tied into my desire to establish boundaries and the fact that these people have challenged me every step of the way!

I understand. Work through anger in T. These people will get the picture if you keep boundaries of steel. It's frustrating and it will get easier. I rarely hear from my ex because she knows I mean business. A simple explanation, boundaries is to keep the bad stuff out and good stuff in. The challenge you face now pays off. You've been through a lot. You have a right to be angry. I'm sorry.

[Aussie JJ]

I don't know about 'anger' as a generic thing.  I break it down a bit more now. 

For me its specific.  I am seeing more anger towards myself. 

One thing that really flips me out is how she can move on so quickly and then essentially try's to re-parent our son with her new BF.  That really really ___s me and makes me angry at her.  As I have said, I would have worked through anything, I had the same expectation of my partner. 

The vast majority of the rest of my anger is internal.  Angry at myself.  I think I should actually make a whole session with my P for this as I don't get it and struggle with it.  How was I to know, how was I to deal with it all etc. etc.  For some reason I have an expectation of myself that I should have been able to.  That is why I am angry at myself?

1 + 1 = 2.  Not in this world unfortunately.  Separating the emotional and logical isn't a straightforward thing.  Is it resentment.  I don't understand it so cant go ahhh thats it.   

I know through the relationship my coping methods were sort of defined by Turkishes posts.

1 ) Work through it.  (repeat multiple times)

Hers was defined as

6 ) All your fault. 

Since separation it is still been defined in those terms.  I am starting to move towards #3 and a little bit of #2.  Sounds weird, there I am!


AJJ

[peiper]

Yes I can be angry at times, she cheated. That's something I can't and will not forgive. But on the other hand, had she not I wouldn't have meant a very special and beautiful woman who I'm falling in love with so should thank her!

[Pingo]

And it's all tied into my desire to establish boundaries and the fact that these people have challenged me every step of the way!

I understand. Work through anger in T. These people will get the picture if you keep boundaries of steel. It's frustrating and it will get easier. I rarely hear from my ex because she knows I mean business. A simple explanation, boundaries is to keep the bad stuff out and good stuff in. The challenge you face now pays off. You've been through a lot. You have a right to be angry. I'm sorry.

Thank you Mutt, I suffered depression when I was young also, it changed when I had my daughter when I was 24.  It lessened as I had a life purpose.  I never got over the anxiety though.  I have been anxious since a child.  Nervous tics, insomnia, hyper reactive (which is at an all time high right now).  Now I'm thinking the anxiety is the anger turned inwards, like depression.  I've had a nervous tic for over two years now, it drives me crazy and I can't get it to stop.  When I've had them in the past they last a week or so and then disappear.  Not this time.  I used to drink to numb the anxiety but that doesn't even work anymore.  I think as I grew more angry at my ex and the resentment I had for not being able to be myself and be accepted as myself, having to walk on eggshells all the time, etc the anxiety just became unbearable. 

AussieJJ, that must be so very difficult dealing with those co parenting issues with you ex.  I know how frustrated and enraged I get with my first husband (my son's father) because of his lack of parenting skills and irresponsibility.  I get really angry because I can see my son suffering, having two dramatically different houses to grow up in.  And there seems to be nothing I can do about it.  That is why I try so very hard to be the best mom and give him a stable home and environment for at least half his life.  And that is why I am trying to process and heal all this pain and not numb it or run from it, because both my kids suffer from anxiety and my s10 is starting to exhibit some real troubling symptoms.  How can he trust me that I can take care of him and won't let anything bad happen to him if I cannot even trust myself?

[Mutt]

As I have said, I would have worked through anything, I had the same expectation of my partner.

Do you think the bar is set too high Aussie JJ? I expected my ex partner to be at my level. She copes entirely differently the I. A lesson that I learned from my ex partner is that I had to adjust to other people. An example would be my S6, he's sensitive and gets dysregulated times, it would make me frustrated, and angry at times. Understanding that people cope differently I don't set them to my standards. I don't give into an angry impulse, I validate him and by validating his feelings we can communicate and I can get to the root of what's really triggering him.

I can relate feeling angry that there's another man in the picture. Shortly after post break-up (1 month) my ex told me the kids are in a great relationship with her bf. The problem (me) was left begin and things are great  You know yourself how your ex is behind closed doors. She wears a mask.

It was distortion. I have to deal with how things ARE, not how I wish they were. I learned how to validate my kids and I see the positive effects it has on them. It's a sort of anecdote ( it's not to say they're not going to have any issues from mom's issues ) to their dysfunction. Had I remained angry in conflict, I think the kids would have certainly slipped through the cracks. Her conflict is secondary and I'm indifferent. Her emotional attachment is hers, I emotionally disconnected from her.

Yes I can be angry at times, she cheated. That's something I can't and will not forgive. But on the other hand, had she not I wouldn't have meant a very special and beautiful woman who I'm falling in love with so should thank her!

This can be a goal achieved Aussie JJ. You're too good for her.

Thank you Mutt, I suffered depression when I was young also, it changed when I had my daughter when I was 24.  It lessened as I had a life purpose.

I was on meds on and off and I did self medicate at times with alcohol in my 20's. Alcohol didn't help as it made me more depression and obviously the anxiety returned.

I haven't had panic attacks since I met my ex and my life changed when I had my D. I agree it lessened because my life wasn't simply about me anymore, it had purpose. Mindfulness is a tool I learned here and my stress levels diminished by 90%.  If you're suffering from depression please visit your doctor. There is no shame if you're depressed and getting help.

[Hope0807]

Good topic.  No doubt we shift from anger to deep depression.  For me, anger felt good, really good, until I became more aware of the oftentimes profound sadness that followed when the anger simmered down.  Once I read the explanation about what happens in the brain with anger it made sense.  Anger registers in the brain similarly to drugs or sex…it is like a pleasurable burst of adrenaline…but that adrenaline must eventually come down.  Interestingly, I was angry often while in the relationship and trying figure out what was going on.  Now, I'm struggling to heal and although those times of anger (in what's been revealed and what he's done) felt powerful, I find myself wallowing a bit too much in a depression and the sadness of so much dreamt, tried, and lost.  All I want is a balance now and to heal fully, completely, without question.  So the sadness is no doubt something I must go through, not around, but anger is no longer a worthwhile emotion that I wish to dance with much.  It is my personal choice on this journey to find my strength elsewhere and let it take roots within my core values.

I spent 7 years with an angry, angry person who even shortly after his widest, warmest smiles would again find something or someone to rage about. 

[Pingo]

Thank you Mutt, I suffered depression when I was young also, it changed when I had my daughter when I was 24.  It lessened as I had a life purpose.

I was on meds on and off and I did self medicate at times with alcohol in my 20's. Alcohol didn't help as it made me more depression and obviously the anxiety returned.

I haven't had panic attacks since I met my ex and my life changed when I had my D. I agree it lessened because my life wasn't simply about me anymore, it had purpose. Mindfulness is a tool I learned here and my stress levels diminished by 90%.  If you're suffering from depression please visit your doctor. There is no shame if you're depressed and getting help.

It's funny, I went to my doctor many times over the 4 yr period I was with my ex, complaining about fatigue and a chronic stomach ache, among other problems.  He told me flat out that I was clinically depressed.  I got so mad!  I said no, I was not depressed and I felt that he was trying to dismiss my problems by labelling me.  Now looking back, he was correct but I couldn't see it.  It did prompt me to start seeing a naturopath who helped me a lot.  I didn't see it as depression because it was different than the depression I experienced as a young person.  It was disguised as anxiety, fatigue, low sex drive and apathy.  I was in big-time denial!

[Skip]

I don't know about 'anger' as a generic thing.  I break it down a bit more now. 

Aussie, it sounds like you are on the cusp of moving from:

ACKNOWLDGEMENT [Stage 1]: When we're dealing with a major loss or strong attachment, we begin our healing by acknowledging and working with our feelings. The feelings that are the stickiest aspects of attachment... .

SELF-INQUIRY [Stage 2]: Once you've felt your feelings, you'll need to learn to understand them and the loss you are suffering through self-inquiry.

Isn't your anger really fear.  We don't like fear, it makes us feel very vulnerable, so we often paper it over with the "safer" emotion, anger.  Which is OK at first... .but often harmful if we let it fester.

Can you pinpoint the fears?  Pinpointing and the addressing is a big part of healing.

Clearly, one is that you will be replaced as ":)addy".  It's a rear concern.  I'd feel it too. However, there is  difference in being angry at what she is doing and fearing what your child my do - re-parent.  The former focuses on her and will likely motivate a greater re-parenting effort of her part - the later suggests focusing on the child and says don't ever show anger to "mom" or make the child feel they need to choose.

It important and hard to uncover the primary emotions.

[Blimblam]

Ajj,

Man I'm sorry. I would be angry too.  I can remember those games when I was little.  It makes me sad to remember. How old is your child?

[Aussie JJ]

Isn't your anger really fear.  We don't like fear, it makes us feel very vulnerable, so we often paper it over with the "safer" emotion, anger.  Which is OK at first... .but often harmful if we let it fester.

Can you pinpoint the fears?  Pinpointing and the addressing is a big part of healing.

Clearly, one is that you will be replaced as ":)addy".  It's a rear concern.  I'd feel it too. However, there is  difference in being angry at what she is doing and fearing what your child my do - re-parent.  The former focuses on her and will likely motivate a greater re-parenting effort of her part - the later suggests focusing on the child and says don't ever show anger to "mom" or make the child feel they need to choose.

Well, I know that essentially my relationship with my son is so much better now for the reality of seperation.  With this, I used to get home and get yelled at or backed into a corner when she saw me playing with our son.  Always interupted and tried to remove me from him or him from me.  I was a threat to her attachment and I can see that now.  Now, She is up and down and all over the place and I see the effect that that has on our son at handovers.  I just want to be more in his life and he will learn that his dad will always be there. 

I have spent alot of time thinking about what is best for him.  I spent ages going through the whole.  She will know that I understand and will want to now work things out and it will be ok I can work through this stage.  That was a big one for me. 

I tried, it made her more hostile. 

Now I'm at the, she has been responsible for marginalising my relationship with our son so far.  What is best for him in the future, 50/50 in the reasonable world is what would be the split.  Both parents supporting each other.  This will never happen with her without the courts or probably even in the courts.  So I am back to her way of thinking, I have to be inflexible and just let it run through the process, just accept whatever the evaluators stipulate.  When she lies, so be it, when she triangulates so be it.  I hope that they see through it and make a choice that is best for our son. 

I think the biggest thing that worries me is if I get more than 50 % care for our son, what will that do to her relationship with him?  In my head I have a fear that she will then start to devalue our son and start the discard process.  This I know isnt healthy for him.  I am not responsible for her relationship however she is so responsible for ruining my relationship with our son. 

I am over the constant weighing everything up.  I just want someone else to understand from our sons perspectrive and do what is best for him. 

I had our son the other day say "F#ck me!".  I looked at him and said that is a bad word.  Who taught you that?  Mummy says it.  Well she shouldnt thats rude, who does mummy say that to.  John!

I am at the point where I just dont care what she does herself.  I just want it seperated from our son.  That whole enmeshed dynamic that existed in our relationships exists in her own relationship.  It's toxic, he is learning to relate like that. 


AJJ. 

[Blimblam]

Ajj

When I was little my dad got custody of me.  So when i saw my BPD mom I was always in idealization mode. There were a few times in my childhood that my mom raged at me that were pretty traumatic.  All in all I'm glad my dad had custody of me because if I had lived with her more than 20% of the time I think I would have went into being devalued more often. The one time she did rage at me she held against me for like 4 years and from that point on she would guilt trip and shame me over that incident.

[Aussie JJ]

Ajj

When I was little my dad got custody of me.  So when i saw my BPD mom I was always in idealization mode. There were a few times in my childhood that my mom raged at me that were pretty traumatic.  All in all I'm glad my dad had custody of me because if I had lived with her more than 20% of the time I think I would have went into being devalued more often. The one time she did rage at me she held against me for like 4 years and from that point on she would guilt trip and shame me over that incident.

BB,

I can see how she got/learnt/developed her BPD, it's a learnt behaviour, her mum has BPD and her father enabled the neglect and abuse.  The cycle repeats.  Her father is propping her up constantly basically assisting her in marginalising me from our sons life.  I am at the point where I dont really care what SHE does, nor her family.  I just want to be involved in our sons life.  In time she will go through the discard phase.  I will be there for him when this happens.  If I am there 3 or 5 days a week it is all good with me as long as I am there and we are not fighting over it. 

Thats how I view it.  Thing is, I am happy with 50/50.  I beleive that is what is healthiest.  Honestly I think she will have difficulties however that is what is best.  Once it goes through court and all taht money is spent, I dont care and wont back down from 2-3 days a week or if I get 4-5 days a week at that point I will say thankyou.  Walking away now and rest is your problem. 

It shouldnt be like that and I am angry at myself for having to have that view. 


AJJ. 

[Hope0807]

Ajj,

Are you saying one can "get" BPD from "learned" behavior?  Just looking to understand what you meant by what you wrote? 

Ajj

When I was little my dad got custody of me.  So when i saw my BPD mom I was always in idealization mode. There were a few times in my childhood that my mom raged at me that were pretty traumatic.  All in all I'm glad my dad had custody of me because if I had lived with her more than 20% of the time I think I would have went into being devalued more often. The one time she did rage at me she held against me for like 4 years and from that point on she would guilt trip and shame me over that incident.

BB,

I can see how she got/learnt/developed her BPD, it's a learnt behaviour, her mum has BPD and her father enabled the neglect and abuse.  The cycle repeats.  Her father is propping her up constantly basically assisting her in marginalising me from our sons life.  I am at the point where I dont really care what SHE does, nor her family.  I just want to be involved in our sons life.  In time she will go through the discard phase.  I will be there for him when this happens.  If I am there 3 or 5 days a week it is all good with me as long as I am there and we are not fighting over it. 

Thats how I view it.  Thing is, I am happy with 50/50.  I beleive that is what is healthiest.  Honestly I think she will have difficulties however that is what is best.  Once it goes through court and all taht money is spent, I dont care and wont back down from 2-3 days a week or if I get 4-5 days a week at that point I will say thankyou.  Walking away now and rest is your problem. 

It shouldnt be like that and I am angry at myself for having to have that view. 


AJJ. 

[Aussie JJ]

We all learn how to relate from the examples given to us by our parents.  We get our fears our interpretations of life from them and our culture.  If your mum is afraid of dogs and crosses the road to avoid them, you will learn to be afraid of dogs and cross the road to avoid dogs until one day you question that behaviour. 

My exBPDgf grew up with a mother that had BPD.  She learnt how to relate form her mother who passed all of those fears and behaviours onto her daughter. 


AJJ. 

[Blimblam]

I'm kinda angry right now too. Except there's no one to really blame so now I'm kinda laughing at the absurdity of it all. Like it's all some sort of cosmic joke