Advice ... Letting go?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

How did you learn to let go?

This weekend was awful for me. I've had a lot going on in my life, and I wish I still had him for support. He hasn't posted anything on social media (although I believe thats because he hasn't told his family we're no longer together). They'd disapprove, since they adored me. He's been out every day and I think (although I'm not certain) has already begun courting someone else. He craves the validation.

I don't want to be with someone that could so easily replace me. But, surely, he must remember the good times we had. I'll never truly know what he's thinking or feeling, but I'm struggling to let go of the memories and the amazing, romantic image I have of him in my head.

I just want to reach indifference.

Advice?

[lovethebeach]

How did you learn to let go?

This weekend was awful for me. I've had a lot going on in my life, and I wish I still had him for support. He hasn't posted anything on social media (although I believe thats because he hasn't told his family we're no longer together). They'd disapprove, since they adored me. He's been out every day and I think (although I'm not certain) has already begun courting someone else. He craves the validation.

I don't want to be with someone that could so easily replace me. But, surely, he must remember the good times we had. I'll never truly know what he's thinking or feeling, but I'm struggling to let go of the memories and the amazing, romantic image I have of him in my head.

I just want to reach indifference.

Advice?

[Raybo48]

How did you learn to let go?

This weekend was awful for me. I've had a lot going on in my life, and I wish I still had him for support. He hasn't posted anything on social media (although I believe thats because he hasn't told his family we're no longer together). They'd disapprove, since they adored me. He's been out every day and I think (although I'm not certain) has already begun courting someone else. He craves the validation.

I don't want to be with someone that could so easily replace me. But, surely, he must remember the good times we had. I'll never truly know what he's thinking or feeling, but I'm struggling to let go of the memories and the amazing, romantic image I have of him in my head.

I just want to reach indifference.

Advice?

It's going to take time, and I know that's probably don't what you want to hear right now.  I struggle with what you have described daily and it seems most of the members do as well; good and bad days.  I think it's important to get your thoughts and feelings out on these boards so that you can get the support you need from people that are going through it right now.  

[lovethebeach]

How are you doing?

[Raybo48]

How are you doing?

Eh, good and bad days Beach... .You sound like you're having a hard time of it these day.  Glad you are on these threads with us and hopefully we can lend some support for you in your time of pain.

[lovethebeach]

I think today is difficult because this time last year, he was getting ready to leave for the Army. We were so in love and so close and the future was seemed endless... .everything was absolutely perfect.

Fast forward, and he left the military, which he claims was to be with me. He came home and I helped him with EVERYTHING. And now, taking everything else off the table ... .he hasn't even checked in with me after I got into a serious car accident. People I haven't spoken too in months have checked in.

I'm just shocked and appalled at his behavior. It truly is like I don't matter and now I'm clumped in with the rest of his ex's. I was different... .I guess it's hard feeling as if he doesn't want me.

But then again, if he came back ... .would I really want him, with no trust left?

I just don't know anymore.

[going places]

How did you learn to let go?

This weekend was awful for me. I've had a lot going on in my life, and I wish I still had him for support. He hasn't posted anything on social media (although I believe thats because he hasn't told his family we're no longer together). They'd disapprove, since they adored me. He's been out every day and I think (although I'm not certain) has already begun courting someone else. He craves the validation.

I don't want to be with someone that could so easily replace me. But, surely, he must remember the good times we had. I'll never truly know what he's thinking or feeling, but I'm struggling to let go of the memories and the amazing, romantic image I have of him in my head.

I just want to reach indifference.

Advice?

I began "letting go" of the illusion.

I began seeing things for what they really were.

Good times were only good when he was getting what he wanted.

Regaurdless of the sacrifice I or anyone else made to 'appease' him.

Lie upon lie, deceit upon deceit... .reality.

I didn't focus on the 'hurt' he caused, but I focused on the facts.

Fact was he is incapeable of telling the truth. The depth of his selfishness is bottomless.

I would look back on "what I remembered to be a good time" and then looked at it factually and logically.

What did *I* give / sacrifice or do to make sure he was 'happy'?

What did he do in return for this?

Facts and logic.

Man... .it hurts. It's soul crushing. Made me feel stupid, foolish, ignorant, blind.

Then I realized:

I really loved. I really trusted, I was honest, loyal, true.

HE was the problem.

Not me.

THAT'S how I got over the icky feelings.

Now... .I can see what he did, and it was bad.

And I am worth more.

A whole lot more.

Trust?

I trusted him implicitly. For 20 years.

He had an affair.

I tried with everything in me to trust again.

6 months later... .I found out something much worse than the affair.

I couldn't even sleep in the same room without sleeping with one eye open... .

I trust nothing he says or does now... .

His mask fell off and I saw the REAL him... .never ever again will I trust him.

[lovethebeach]

Wow that was really eye-opening. It seems we're all in this together.

Ethan was a pathological liar as well. I'm beginning to question everything he ever said and did.

The last was when I caught him in a lie where he was lying about his whereabouts. Then, he left the relationship and said "I'm sorry I lied, but you shouldn't have snooped."

This was after I found him on dating websites, Craigslist etc... .Of course I snooped. He should have been an open book.

When we spoke, after I initiated contact for closure... .he blamed everything on me. The things he said still haunt me. How could he honestly believe those things? If I had done this or that, things would be different? Nothing I did warrants the cheating.

I don't think him and I will ever have contact again, since I exposed him as well. I caught him in too many lies for him to ever attempt to come back.

Part of me still wishes things weren't this way. But, I guess they have to be and some day I'll find the silver lining?

[Raybo48]

Wow that was really eye-opening. It seems we're all in this together.

Ethan was a pathological liar as well. I'm beginning to question everything he ever said and did.

The last was when I caught him in a lie where he was lying about his whereabouts. Then, he left the relationship and said "I'm sorry I lied, but you shouldn't have snooped."

This was after I found him on dating websites, Craigslist etc... .Of course I snooped. He should have been an open book.

When we spoke, after I initiated contact for closure... .he blamed everything on me. The things he said still haunt me. How could he honestly believe those things? If I had done this or that, things would be different? Nothing I did warrants the cheating.

I don't think him and I will ever have contact again, since I exposed him as well. I caught him in too many lies for him to ever attempt to come back.

Part of me still wishes things weren't this way. But, I guess they have to be and some day I'll find the silver lining?

I'm not so sure you won't ever hear from him again, but the question is do you want to?  They have a habit of trying to recycle.  At the moment he may be shamed and is getting supply from someone else, but it never lasts and they tend to come back around.  Just something for you to think about, and be ready for.   

[lovethebeach]

It's been three weeks and he hasn't initiated contact once.

Raybo, I don't know how you're staying so strong.

All I want is him to miss me and at least care. It seems like he's doing fine... .Facade or not... .it still hurts.

[going places]

It's been three weeks and he hasn't initiated contact once.

Raybo, I don't know how you're staying so strong.

All I want is him to miss me and at least care. It seems like he's doing fine... .Facade or not... .it still hurts.

Oh how this rings true.

Mine does not, miss me. Why? He does not have the ability to love anything but himself.

He does not have the capacity to put anyone, anyone's needs wants or desires or anyone else's well being above his own.

Mine cares about a few things; Himself, feeding his stomach, feeding his fantasy's, feeding his desires, and sleeping. That's it. No, really... .that's it.

He will never care, because it is not part of his being... .

[peiper]

Write down all the good things and bad things about the relationship and stay on the good things side of the table because the table is going to tip over from all the bad things.

[going places]

Write down all the good things:

He always talked to me on the way home, and told me he loved me

(meanwhile, he was texting another woman while talking to me, and *I* was his que to leave her house and head home because he knew he had 30 min to beat me home from the time I called)

He took me on a week long vacation.

(On a week long motorcycle ride, where he got a new bike for this vaca, and he loves riding, and motorcycles are so cool and so are the people who ride them, so he got to be in the parking lot after the ride with all the cool people, and then after we had sex, and went to sleep (he faked it) he got up and looked at porn all night)

See... .I could go on and on.

There were NO good times.

Because NOW I know the truth... .and this is what helps me move on, not get stuck in the "oh I miss the good times" or any other such nonsense.

[lovethebeach]

How long did it take you?

It's been 20 days for me, we've spoken 3 times during that period.

Today is Veterans Day ... .and this time last year my BPDex was getting ready to leave for the military.

I miss him terribly today.

[going places]

How long did it take you?

It's been 20 days for me, we've spoken 3 times during that period.

Today is Veterans Day ... .and this time last year my BPDex was getting ready to leave for the military.

I miss him terribly today.

((I spent 25 years with this... .person))

January 2014 I started 'practicing' seeing things for what they really were... .

April 2014, I filed for divorce... .again, practicing.

July 2014, after the divorce had been final for 2 weeks, I told him to get out.

August 2014 was the last time I saw him face to face or spoke to him on the phone.

SINCE aug 2014 the healing I have felt / experienced is LIGHT YEARS ahead of when he was living here / in my face.

I can see things SO MUCH clearer now that I do not have him in my face.

And I can see his 'tricks and games' that used to work, that no longer work now.

I do not ruminate on "how could I be so dumb"

I now ruminate "I see your games, and I will not play" and I walk away (so to speak, we only comm via email)

I quit thinking of 'what I lost, and what it could have been, and what am I going to do now" and focused on "this is what he did to me (abuse) and this is how I can see it was not my fault, and this is how it will never happen to me again"... .THEN I REALLY SPEND TIME THINKING... .this is what kind of new home I want to live in, this is the new location I want to live in, this is the kind of restaruant I want to own and operate, etc... .

The battle is in your mind.

It's used to seeing things thru rose colored glasses.

Take the glasses off and see the black and white... .in my case... .the black.

[Raybo48]

How long did it take you?

It's been 20 days for me, we've spoken 3 times during that period.

Today is Veterans Day ... .and this time last year my BPDex was getting ready to leave for the military.

I miss him terribly today.

I'm sure today is a really hard day for you.  Try and stay busy and focus on you.  Go out and do something for you that you haven't done in awhile.  You can do this.

[rosannadanna]

Hi lovethebeach,

You sound young, so I think it is good that you are having such a compelling r/s at this time in your life.  This is a turning point for you; you can take this experience and adjust the course of your life regarding who you will choose as a partner and maybe have children with (making assumption that you want kids, sorry if I'm wrong on that).

I made a baby with a loser 17 years ago and kind of floundered cluelessly through dating/quasi-relationships for the last 12 years, culminating with fours years with my BPDex.  I am a year out from walking away, but I identify with you.  Your ex sounds like he has strong N traits, but is kind of waify and let you "fix him" for a while, until you turned into a mommy he had to get away from in his mind.  I think it's harder to get to the anger stage with guys like these b/c even though they have enough N traits to make them a-holes, they also have the waif/BPD thing going on, so it makes you wonder if their leaving is not about getting bored and discarding you (Narc) but instead they are seeing you as bad mommy and running away, which makes them look more vulnerable.  That was a terribly long sentence sorry.

I believe some guys who have the N/BPD thing are just BPD enough to keep a codependent tied in.  That is what kept me tied in longer than it should have.  What helped me move forward was reminding myself of the N side of my ex and my strong aversion to be part of a "harem".  I have just enough of an avoidant attachment style that I am not compelled to "compete" for my guy, but it is compelling for some.  Louise7777 posted this article recently which explains this:

//esteemology.com/the-narcissist-and-his-harem-why-you-should-decline-membership

This website looks like it for women who have gotten involved with guys with srong N traits.  There are several websites like that out there that you might find empowering.

It might be helpful to research the different attachment styles.  Also, if you like reading, "The Betrayal Bond" might be a good book for you.  Also anything by Pia Mellody is good (codependency).

Going Places gave you some good advice that seems to be mindfulness-oriented.  Listen to Tara Brach or Brene Brown to learn more about acceptance and learning to look within for soothing and comfort.

Take care and good luck on your journey  

[lovethebeach]

Raybo,

How do you turn the sadness into anger?  

I'm struggling. Some days I'm angry... .others I'm sad. The sadness is harder to deal with because I keep wanting to have contact with him, but I know that it would only bring me further pain.

Rosanna,

" Your ex sounds like he has strong N traits, but is kind of waify and let you "fix him" for a while, until you turned into a mommy he had to get away from in his mind.  I think it's harder to get to the anger stage with guys like these b/c even though they enough N traits to make them a-holes, they also have the waif/BPD thing going on, so it makes you wonder if their leaving is not about getting bored and discarding you (Narc) but instead they are seeing you as bad mommy and running away, which makes them look more vulnerable."

You hit the nail on the head. He always needed fixing and saving ... .and I always did. His mother is NPD so I'm sure he has some strong traits. He abruptly left after I caught him in a series of BIG lies in a few short weeks.I thought we were working on things ... but once, his "mask" fell off ... I guess he ran. He hasn't even attempted to contact me after a two year relationship.

I often wonder if he misses me.

[rosannadanna]

Did you feel like you had to tend to other's needs when you were growing up?  Did you somehow develop a belief system that your needs are not that important and shouldn't be aknowledged?

This would be a great time to look at childhood stuff and how it relates to your intimate relationship style in adulthood.

Therapy might be a good resource at this time in your life, if you are open to it and can access it (cost, time, etc).

It's ok to be really sad right now.  Like racking sobs, snot coming out of your nose, going to work looking like a hot mess sad.  Just "lean into it" as they say aroung here.  Do you have friends and family that can support you?

[Raybo48]

Raybo,

How do you turn the sadness into anger?  

I'm struggling. Some days I'm angry... .others I'm sad. The sadness is harder to deal with because I keep wanting to have contact with him, but I know that it would only bring me further pain.

Rosanna,

" Your ex sounds like he has strong N traits, but is kind of waify and let you "fix him" for a while, until you turned into a mommy he had to get away from in his mind.  I think it's harder to get to the anger stage with guys like these b/c even though they enough N traits to make them a-holes, they also have the waif/BPD thing going on, so it makes you wonder if their leaving is not about getting bored and discarding you (Narc) but instead they are seeing you as bad mommy and running away, which makes them look more vulnerable."

You hit the nail on the head. He always needed fixing and saving ... .and I always did. His mother is NPD so I'm sure he has some strong traits. He abruptly left after I caught him in a series of BIG lies in a few short weeks.I thought we were working on things ... but once, his "mask" fell off ... I guess he ran. He hasn't even attempted to contact me after a two year relationship.

I often wonder if he misses me.

Beach,

I saw your other post from yesterday and I'm not that strong, trust me.  I'm going through much of what you are going through right now and am probably weaker in some respects.

I think anger is just too hard of an emotion to sustain, and it masks true inner feelings that we have to go through like it or not.  I've tried to stay angry at my ex for all the things she has said and done and if I go a day or so that's about it and then sadness creeps in and I get weak like anyone else.  Then it's really hard to stay NC.  I've failed like many other members have and have looked at her FB page or on occasion will send her a text.  I'm painted very black right now and she's been threatening me so it's pretty easy to stay NC at the moment.  

I just keep reminding myself that I need to grow from within and develop my self-worth.  By staying attached to a person like my ex with her disorder/addictions that will never happen.  I would be doing myself no favors by doing that and inhibiting my growth as a person.

[lovethebeach]

Most people can't comprehend how I could miss someone who was a pathological liar... .who had a secret e-mail account on which he was messaging women on Craigslist... .They support me, but also tell me that it's been three weeks.

He's also so kind and gentle and loving. It's hard because I know I cant have the good without the bad. Two years into the relationship, I feel so discarded after I did EVERYTHING for him.

Today is just one of those days where I want to pick up the phone call him or text him. But, I have too much pride and knowing that he hasn't reached out once in the three weeks ... .I just cant... .

We spoke last week after I got into a serious car accident. He hasnt reached out since to even check in on me. Blows my mind, how little I must mean to him... .

[OutOfEgypt]

Here's some advice as it has pertained to my journey (a journey which I am *still* on, by the way).  I've learned that all of our journeys have both similarities and differences, however.  I hope this helps.

1. Essentially, you learn to let go with time plus pain plus new growth.  I'll explain what I mean by that.  Time is the obvious one.  This takes time.  Pain means that you learn to let go because you realize how much it hurts and sucks the life out of you to stay stuck on them, thinking about all the things that went wrong, or even thinking about how much you hate them.  You realize that it is something you are doing to yourself.  There is the pain of loss, but there is the pain that comes from your self-torture and obsessing on them.  The pain of loss is one thing.  Our self-torture is something entirely different.  Our will to survive starts to show itself and we start to realize, "Wow, I'm not free.  All I do is think about them and the latest drama about them.  I'm carrying this load for NOTHING... .and it SUCKS.  I cannot even enjoy my own life, as I ruminate and torture myself like this.  It is not only hurting me.  It is hurting all my relationships, too."  We start to take notice and get sick of torturing ourselves with our rumination and obsession with them.  But we have to want it.  We have to choose between our life and hanging onto them and their drama.  As we take steps on our journey in this direction, we learn that this is not a linear process.  We take two steps forward and one step back.  We realize at various painful intervals how, even though we thought we let go of them, we still have more to let go of.  It is a process.

And as we do this, and hopefully even before this starts to happen, we begin investing in a new life.  We make friends, even if we don't feel like it.  We go out.  We do nice things for ourselves, even if we don't feel like it.  Take a trip, socialize, start new hobbies, create new things... .build things, paint things, etc.  

2. Pray, and instead of praying for help and for God to fix everything and make everything go away, start praying by just enjoying being with Him and by thanking Him for the simple things in life.  Ask him to show you the beauty of the simple things in life.

3. You have to feel, and you have to feel *with* and toward someone... .a best friend, a therapist even better.  By feelings I do not mean moping, ruminating, depression, worrying, or endlessly talking about it.  I mean the *real* feelings... .grief, anger, sorrow, love.  The importance of the anger (and I don't mean bitterness or revenge, I mean hurt-anger) is in finding your voice, the voice that belongs to the hurt you have experienced, and stepping our of the sentimental haze where you believed that being endlessly needed meant being loved.

4. Eventually, in my honest opinion, you will get to the point where you realize even things like this group can tend to get your head stuck in obsessing about them and BPD, and you start to leave it behind more and more, because it will become a temptation to ruminate about them.  You will also start to realize that talking to certain people becomes a temptation, since they cannot seem to let it all go, either.

[Raybo48]

Most people can't comprehend how I could miss someone who was a pathological liar... .who had a secret e-mail account on which he was messaging women on Craigslist... .They support me, but also tell me that it's been three weeks.

He's also so kind and gentle and loving. It's hard because I know I cant have the good without the bad. Two years into the relationship, I feel so discarded after I did EVERYTHING for him.

Today is just one of those days where I want to pick up the phone call him or text him. But, I have too much pride and knowing that he hasn't reached out once in the three weeks ... .I just cant... .

We spoke last week after I got into a serious car accident. He hasnt reached out since to even check in on me. Blows my mind, how little I must mean to him... .

Well if you are anything like me: A fixer, an accommodator, Co-dependent, etc then it's easy to miss someone who is a pathological liar, asked me to fly out and come get her while she was dating other men.  My friends were like, move on she's nuts... What's the big deal.  No one gets it except people who have been with a BPD individual.  

As far as your car accident, I can't say I'm surprised.  One of my best friends who I knew for over 30 years died suddenly a couple of years ago.  My ex was one of the first people I told and I got nothing from her.  "Oh that's sad", and then right onto the next subject that was about her.  I flew from Salt lake City one time to Chicago, and drove to see her in WI all in the same day and when I got there I went to the bathroom and peed strait blood (kidney stone)... She was like, oh you'll be fine what movie do you want to watch... .   Empathy is NOT one of their strong points and in my opinion is what makes them  very toxic people to be around.

[lovethebeach]

Its just a stark difference to when we were together.

He used to always care... .now he could care less and that hurts.

Sometimes, I find myself wishing he'd call or text ... .or show something. ANYTHING. It's like he dropped of the face of the planet after everything we went through together.

I never thought calling him out on a lie ... .would make him leave our relationship.

Out of Egypt:

Thank you for your reply. I will try my best to continue to put one foot in front of the other.

Did you ever hear from yours again?

[lovethebeach]

A part of me still wants him to come running back, like he did every other time... .

But I know this time is different. He's gone. I'm painted black and there isn't anything I can do about it.

I think reaching out to him, will only push him further away.

[OutOfEgypt]

lovethebeach:  

Unfortunately, I have to hear from mine regularly.  I share children with her.  There is always some kind of drama.  Always.  You can almost predict it.  My kids have to deal with it, unfortunately, and I deal with it to some degree because of them -very easy to get sucked back into the mess when you see your children hurting!  And then there's her direct blow-ups toward me (accusations, text-message bombs, silent-treatment, etc).  It is an exercise in learning to let go, otherwise I would be constantly exhausted and go insane.

I've been where you are at, even though I'm sure there are many differences.  You will get out of it.  If you don't have one, I recommend finding a good therapist.  I had one that specialized in something called ISTDP (intensive short-term dynamic psychotherapy), which is absolutely phenomenal for helping you work through emotions and get rid of self-destructive coping mechanisms.

[Raybo48]

A part of me still wants him to come running back, like he did every other time... .

But I know this time is different. He's gone. I'm painted black and there isn't anything I can do about it.

I think reaching out to him, will only push him further away.

Being painted black can be a very good thing.  You don't see it that way right now, and I have trouble sometimes myself.  It allows you to see him for what he is and at the same times allows you to heal.  

[OutOfEgypt]

I think reaching out to him, will only push him further away.

It might for a time, but it will also give him and open door (not that he would need one) to come back later and try to pull you away from anything good you could ever have.

We cannot rely upon them to close the door and let go.  They won't.  We have to.

[Raybo48]

I think reaching out to him, will only push him further away.

It might for a time, but it will also give him and open door (not that he would need one) to come back later and try to pull you away from anything good you could ever have.

We cannot rely upon them to close the door and let go.  They won't.  We have to.

I agree 100%.  They don't know how to close doors completely and always seem to leave them cracked.  

I have noticed that about my BPDxgf, and even though her words have said that they have never met her actions.  

[lovethebeach]

I don't know. He sent money to mail his things back and hasn't tried to contact me?

When we spoke last week, he took the opportunity to blame everything on me... .


What do you mean about the open door? It seems he's closed it?

[Raybo48]

I don't know. He sent money to mail his things back and hasn't tried to contact me?

When we spoke last week, he took the opportunity to blame everything on me... .


What do you mean about the open door? It seems he's closed it?

In my experience with my BPDxgf none of her emotions were/are sustainable, including hating me.   Also, her words and actions rarely if ever meet.  So just because he's slammed the door on you today doesn't mean he won't open it down the road. 

The question is why wait around for him to go through various supply out there and decide one day that he's going to paint you white and try and reconnect?  He won't be any different that what he's displayed in the last few weeks no matter what he tells you.  I have bitten I can't tell you how many times and my ex is the same exact person she always will be.  Once the honeymoon phase is over they can paint you black on a dime and then you have to go through the hurt and pain all over again.

Work on yourself and move on.  Once you start to really heal you will have absolutely no interest in him or anyone like him.