Can I let my wife come back after cheating (part 3)

[Grey Kitty]

My wife flew to another town and stayed with a guy... .and started cheating on me, almost a month ago.

A week ago, she left the town and him. My last topic was closed... .background is here:

Part 1: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=235769.0

Part 2: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=236247.0

I've got another thread going around my own issues (which showed up in our r/s) https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=236486.0

So... .yesterday was the first conversation since the cheating. We have had a couple personal business text/email exchanges, and a few significant but short emails back and forth first.

I'm back to getting love-bombed with little friendly gestures, texts, facebook posts, etc. Just got an email with a link to an article about how to have a successful r/s she would like to "discuss" with me.

It still doesn't feel very sincere to me, given that she has (so far) refused to cut contact with the guy she cheated with. She left it in a state of "thinking about it, but I'm still talking to the guy while I do it." rather than "No." I've decided I will give her SOME time to "think" about it.

For me, it is a consent issue. She didn't get it. She needed it. I won't give it to her now.

She has admitted that she acted against her own morals when she did this without consent. (Big plus)

She is making my lack of consent into an issue where I "Always say no to what she wants to do". Yes, we have fought about this before... .and no, I'm not buying this framing of the issue... .even though there is a bigger issue with it.

As far as I'm concerned, the "cost" of starting a r/s without consent is ending it, even if you don't want to. I am aware that telling  her this is just going to make things worse. And my feelings are driving this on my part, whether I use this sort of argument/logic or not.

What is it that you are getting out of the r/s in the past 5 years? Both positive and negative?

I wrote down 4 different boundaries when I started the r/s with dBPDxbf. ... .

I was just a kid when we got together. I never thought about boundaries first.  

I've got a few... .now:

• No abuse - verbal, physical, emotional



• No kissing a guy (or woman should my wife discover she is bisexual!) on the lips without my consent.



• No relationships without my consent.

There probably are others... .but no history of my wife violating them, so I'm not worrying about them.

What have I got out of the last 5 years? Funny... .I'm in a mood where looking at it that way would be a pretty stark condemnation of the marriage.

We've had a LOT of conflict in that timeframe. Far more than the 15 years before. She had been mildly abusive/controlling before, but it really stepped up around then. A couple years later, I stood up and enforced boundaries to prevent it too.

I learned what I needed to know about how to protect myself. I wouldn't give that up for anything. And I'm very proud of doing it the hard way--within the r/s, not by leaving. I think I learned it better that way.

I've learned that I'm not making my own choices, except choosing to follow her (or not go that direction, generally stopping her too). I got kicked in the teeth by this one when I hit the low point just now of being cheated on. For me, figuring this out is far more important than the cheating is. I think that I will have to work harder to grow through this one if I stay with her... .but that I will learn it better. I believe I'm providing a matching crucible for her, based on what she's told me about her tough choices and issues.

However, we are very compatible in *most* of our values. As well as a many interests and some shared dreams. We can do great work together. (Thinking about it... .if we work on her project, it can be great. OK, we had some failures when she worked on my projects. I'll have to think about that.)

We also have shared finances that are working well enough for us right now, and leave us lots of options. If we divide up into two households, I'm pretty sure I'll have to seek more income for mine soon-ish.

Honestly... .I'm not feeling like I need to or want to do a pro/con list on staying together. I'm willing to do a lot to stay together. Twenty years is worth something.

I'm not willing to sacrifice myself or my values.

The ball really is in her court. And I'm ready to walk out of the game pretty soon.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

Whew. I've still got a story to tell, don't I? Moving along, I've got a semi-specific thing I'd like input on:

One thing that has happened on prior issues like this is that we both get very firm about our general values and principles, and refuse to budge... .however if one of us 'blinks' and makes a small concession at the practical, concrete, specific level, we can find some sort of compromise, and ratchet things down a lot.

This time I'm not able to offer much of anything. My sole concession I've dropped the word "never" from sentences about seeing or contacting him again. I was willing to let go of "never", but still clear that I wasn't anticipating any particular time where it would be OK with me. Nor was I thinking it likely that I would get there.

I'm *thinking* about a slightly larger symbolic concession. Stating explicitly that I would entertain her requests to have either a friendship or relationship with the guy after one calender year. Clear that she would need consent for either, but that she could ask after one year.

I'm a little worried about letting things slide too much on that one. I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna give in on her being "friends" with him now.

[MissyM]

GK, look up bargaining. It is something that doesn't working in these situations.  Bargaining is moving your boundary and will just cause more pushing of the boundaries.  So, my advice would be to stay clear on what you need and what is acceptable to you.  Of course, you do not have to take any of my advice on this.  This has worked for me and many others that I know but you are free to do whatever works for you.

[Grey Kitty]

Bargaining... .that's one of the stages of grief, isn't it.   :'(

I keep waking up early in the morning--at or before first light. I mention it because it is not my natural pattern--I've been historically a night owl, especially when my life doesn't have daily and fairly strenuous physical activity... .which it usually doesn't. Early to rise, late to bed makes for a Grey Kitty who feels tired.

So last night I was tired. Tried to go to bed about an hour past when I thought I should given my desire to get up early this morning.

I was laying awake... .thinking about how I was just DONE with my wife still being involved with the guy she's cheating with. I can't make her leave him. I can make her not be my wife. So I stated chatting with a friend I'm confiding in instead... .I decided to write what I wanted to say to my wife down in an email... .maybe send it. My friend recommended calling her and telling her directly.

Anyhow, I wrote it last night. I was afraid of doing something rash and stupid... .or falling into a reactive trap, as I was tired... .knew I wasn't at the top of my game, so to speak. (My friend did validly point out that rash isn't necessarily a bad thing ... .and didn't say this, but I gotta agree that for somebody who is afraid of making his own choices, that goes double. She probably had the thought and was too wise and kind to say it at the time.)

This morning, I woke up early again. Still not quite enough sleep, but not really able to go back to sleep. I took a second look at the email... .edited some of it... .and am happier with it. I'm thinking I'll wait for her to wake up. (time zone difference, probably schedule differences too... .) I will probably call her and tell her directly, rather than sending it as an email.



Subject: I'm done

Wife,

I'm done negotiating with you about your contact with [guy].

I'm done fighting with you about [guy]...

I'm done arguing with you about [guy]...

I cannot grant you consent for any relationship with [guy]...

I'm done trying to twist my morals and values to the point where I can accept your cheating.

I'm done pretending I can be in our relationship while you are cheating on me with [guy]...

If you tell me you have stopped cheating, I will have a lot of hard work to do forgiving you, and especially trusting you. I love you enough to try to do this.

I will always love you,

Grey



I'm pretty resolved about this... .it isn't really new territory for me; I've know it for a while, and I've told my wife most all of it at one time or another. Well everything but "I'm done."

I'm also soo close to being done with her completely. Even though she's not prone to dysregulations anymore, I know there is nothing good about saying that to her with an "almost" in the sentence.

[123Phoebe]

I love you and am willing to let you go gracefully... .  I love myself enough to live according to my values.

Be strong, Grey Kitty

We cannot make another person do things the way we want, no matter how much ummmph we put into it.  Something that keeps coming back when I read your thoughts is that trusting her again is going to take work and that you're up to the challenge... .  Has she made any concessions that this is important to her-- regaining your trust?

[Grey Kitty]

I love you and am willing to let you go gracefully... .  I love myself enough to live according to my values.

Be strong, Grey Kitty

We cannot make another person do things the way we want, no matter how much ummmph we put into it.  Something that keeps coming back when I read your thoughts is that trusting her again is going to take work and that you're up to the challenge... .  Has she made any concessions that this is important to her-- regaining your trust?

 Thanks, Phoebe!

So far, that's a big fat NO.

The point of this conversation is that I need a yes

. it is 4 days short of one calendar month that she's been on the wrong side of this, and unwilling to concede anything... .well, the one concession she offered, she now says she regrets making and won't do it either now that the time to actually do it has come.

[formflier]

. it is 4 days short of one calendar month that she's been on the wrong side of this, and unwilling to concede anything... .well, the one concession she offered, she now says she regrets making and won't do it either now that the time to actually do it has come.

Hmmm... .this is troubling.  Part of keeping your word... means you will keep it... .even when it is uncomfortable... .that's how your word means something.

Does she seem remorseful that she is not keeping to her agreement?

[Grey Kitty]

Well, I had the conversation. Said it on the phone. Then sent the email anyhow.

Background: My wife just published an essay about her new way of dealing with criticism, one central point being how my dad recently said to her kindly and gently, "Next time, would you let me coil up the hose and put it away so it doesn't make a puddle on the garage floor".

Wife,

I'm done negotiating with you about your contact with [guy].

I'm done fighting with you about [guy].

I'm done arguing with you about [guy].

I cannot grant you consent for any relationship with [guy].

I'm done trying to twist my morals and values to the point where I can accept your cheating.

I'm done pretending I can be in our relationship while you are cheating on me with [guy].

~~~~~~~

I wrote all the above before I read your essay about "Next time." It is wonderful.

There is almost nothing I can imagine wanting to do more than say to you: "Next time, would you please... ."

My dad wouldn't have said what he did if he walked in and found you running water onto the garage floor. I'm sure he would have said something different. My dad found the puddle... .after you had stopped flooding the garage floor.

I cannot say this to you while you are still cheating on me.

No matter what you do, I will always love you,

Grey

Kinda awkward end of the conversation. She has "her side" that she wants to tell me. I didn't particularly want to hear it, and am not in a place I can listen openheartedly... .and told her that.

[Grey Kitty]

Well... .I had a chat with my current dearest friend and supporter... .and got a bit of a spine injection... .

And within an hour, called back and said one more thing: (more-or-less) I want to move forward and repair our marriage. You violated my trust. You have to stop doing that in order for me to go forward.

It is that simple.

Only, we ended up in another hour-long conversation, and it is not that simple.

She is ready to end it. Or at least that was what she said next.

At this point... .she is *almost* ready to cut contact with the guy, for a time period. I suggested one year after a bit. She said six months.

She did acknowledge that she wouldn't get back together with him again without my consent... .or without breaking up with me.

It is kinda freeing... .and helps me respect my wife more.

If she was willing to end our marriage for this guy, who she started cheating with, and still insists she's not obsessed with... .that is just... .ick. I don't want to go there.

If she's ready to get out of our marriage, because of what it has been... .that is at least a choice I can respect.

We were starting to go in circles... .and I wanted to do a boat project with the last of the daylight. So we ended the conversation. She wants to talk again in a day or two.

I'm not sure how long I'll let her keep me in limbo.

The only thing that bites is that she is still in a position to choose whether we stay together or split. I don't like leaving her in the situation with the power.

[Burninghalo]

Hi Grey,

I've been watching your threads but don't think I've commented yet... I've been cheated on too, though it was more a reaction to major dysregulation and feeling rejected than a conscious decision to want a relationship with the guy - on that level she knew they didn't work. Either way, it's not a nice feeling and can leave you feeling pretty confused.

I like the email / conversation. You were firm on your boundaries, on what you're willing to put yourself through. You made it clear you want to work on things if she does. If it were me - and I wish I was stronger on this before - I'd be firm on saying you can't move on and forgive if she is still in touch with him. Even if physical contact was agreed to be left out, she will always have that emotional pull to him and when things go south, that's not good.

Its not an ultimatum, it's simply saying you can't feel that you're both in it 100% if there is another guy involved.

I don't know what you feel of course, I know there's talk of a relationship with permission down the track - I don't know if this is permission for an open relationship or permission to leave your and start another... Either way, as someone eluded to above, I feel like that is stretching your own boundary.

You love her, you want things to work out with her, but what do you think you can really accept and still feel like you're in a loving committed relationship? Fast forward a year and she wants this relationship with him - what would that look like to you? How would that make you feel?

I'm currently in a situation where my gf and I are separated and she is holidaying with /visiting a former lover. There's a lot of uncertainty about the future for me, well I'm sure for both of us, but I'm not making assumptions - when the time comes, we will talk about it, and I imagine I'll be reinforcing very similar boundaries to the above if she does indeed want to try again... Not saying it's the same situation, just that I can empathise with the confusion and hurt you are feeling.

[Grey Kitty]

Had another conversation with my wife tonight. It started very good... .then came back to her inability to let me "control" or "punish" her by forcing her to stop her r/s with this guy.

We hit a point where neither of us was really listening well... .and she said she had to end the call.

I took a shower, then sent her this email:

Subject: Going Foward

Wife,

I've been pretty direct already, but some things clarified as we finished our conversation, so her it goes.

1. You cheated on me with [guy].

2. You are still in contact with him. As far as my feelings go, that means you are still cheating on me.

3. For me, cutting contact with [guy] for six months is equal to saying "I'm going to stop cheating for six months, then start again.

4. I will not get back together with you until you stop cheating.

This is where I stand. I'm not moving.

I'm willing to forgive you and take you back, if you stop cheating.

If you go forward with me, I'm willing to negotiate on everything else.

I will warn you that I am going to be changing things myself, whatever we do in the future.

I'd like to love and support you,

Grey

P.S. I'm really glad I sent you that one lovey text at the doctor's office today before this blew up. I haven't been able to connect to my loving feelings toward you very much this month. I miss it too.

Right now I'm losing hope for our r/s.

Trying to decide how long I let this limbo go on. Days, and not many of them, I think.

[MissyM]

Good work, GK.  When I set my nonnegotiables out to my dBPDh, it took a couple of months for him to believe I meant it.  That was part of the problem with having not stuck with it in the past.  Hopefully, your wife comes around a bit sooner.