More than just friends?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I am new to BPD Family and have been reading a number of posts on here over the last few days, which has been such an eye opener!  Whilst my situation regarding the relationship is different, my experience is much the same as others have encountered.  I will try to cut a long story short  

My story... .I have known this woman for about 7 years before we became besties 3 years ago.  The friendship was intense - mirroring, constant contact, idealizing to the extreme.  There were messages of "I love you.  You make me smile.  Thinking of you.  I miss you." and more.  Not the kind of messages to send to just a 'friend'.  

I was filled with compassion after hearing about her struggle with depression, relationship problems with her boyfriend and financial hardship.  I felt compelled to boost her up and make her happy.  She appeared to be a lost little girl unable to fend for herself (yeah right!)  Yeah, I see the co-dependent in me now!

After a few months, I did notice odd behavior, but dismissed it all.  She would be so intense with contact then drop off the planet.  She would tell me things like "I have no money, can't even afford food" then I would see something on Facebook to contradict her words.  This was after I would give her money, buy her lunch or some little gift to make her day.  I felt like her big sister wanting to protect and help her.

As we got closer she would open up about her feelings - being overwhelmed, numb, trying to stabilize her emotions, unable to deal with some of her emotions, etc.  I didn't know anything about BPD at that stage.  After she would open up it wouldn't be long before she would go quiet again.

Then came jealousy.  If I was talking to someone she would come up and hug me from behind, segregate me from others, accuse me of dating people then the weirdest accusation... .that I slept with a woman.  I am very, very straight.  She starting saying that a couple of people I work with were trying to cause an argument between her and I (not at all), so she instantly hated them and made it difficult at work for one of them.  She flirted pretty heavy with me, but at the time I thought she was joking around.  

The odd behavior started to become an obsession with me trying to work out what was happening, so I started to pull away.  This is when I discovered a whole new her.  Unfortunately, we work for the same company.  A couple of times she has gone to work in another area if I am around - I've seen the panic on her face when she saw me and it completely had me baffled.  She is all loving and fine via messages, but completely different when she sees me.  A few months ago she caught me having a pash with a guy that works with her.  Oh my... .I got the death stare then she wouldn't look at me.  Told me she had to go and couldn't get away quick enough.

A couple of months ago I messaged her about her being distant.  Her reply was very defensive - told me over and over "you know I love you" and blamed her relationship issues for pulling back from everyone.  I, however, knew that she had increased spending time with a couple of people at work.

She came back with a vengeance a month ago, all loving messages and apologized for pulling back from me.  Told me she loved me and felt bad for pulling back.  Said she didn't want to offload on me.  She split up at that time with her bf as well.  We were supposed to meet for lunch over a week ago, she cancelled cause she was busy, but suggested a reschedule.  I ignored the request.  The following night she turned up at a place I was at with the couple of friends she's been hanging out with.  I was dumbfounded at the look on her face when she saw me.  It was a panic look from her.  She didn't speak to me at all.  Supposedly, she hasn't got much money yet she bought them a drink!

Haven't heard a word from her since.  The turning point for me was last week when I found out she was going out (no money huh?).  I also heard that she is praising her buddies for their support - they are her "support network and sounding board".  Yet she told me she has retracted from everyone.  And, they happen to be males!  I suspect she is gunning for one of the guys now.  It will be interesting as he works for the same company as well.

It was so hurtful for me to hear all that after everything I have done for her.  I finally got to a point where I can't deal with anymore pain, so I deleted her from Facebook 4 days ago.  I've done this a couple of times in the past, but she has messaged me the next day asking why.  This time I haven't heard a word from her!

I've been going to therapy for a few months now as I thought I was going crazy .  My therapist believes the relationship was much more than friendship for her and the craziness started when she realized she was 'in love' with me/got too close to me.  I am still struggling to understand how this can be when all we were was friends and I'm not gay.  There was no physical connection apart from a ton of affection - hugs, touching, etc.  She doesn't treat any of her other friends like she does me.  It all blows my mind.  

I am hoping this is the end now.  The fact that she hasn't queried me deleting her as a friend is a huge step forward.  Maybe this time I will be banished for good?

[Hadlee]

I am new to BPD Family and have been reading a number of posts on here over the last few days, which has been such an eye opener!  Whilst my situation regarding the relationship is different, my experience is much the same as others have encountered.  I will try to cut a long story short  

My story... .I have known this woman for about 7 years before we became besties 3 years ago.  The friendship was intense - mirroring, constant contact, idealizing to the extreme.  There were messages of "I love you.  You make me smile.  Thinking of you.  I miss you." and more.  Not the kind of messages to send to just a 'friend'.  

I was filled with compassion after hearing about her struggle with depression, relationship problems with her boyfriend and financial hardship.  I felt compelled to boost her up and make her happy.  She appeared to be a lost little girl unable to fend for herself (yeah right!)  Yeah, I see the co-dependent in me now!

After a few months, I did notice odd behavior, but dismissed it all.  She would be so intense with contact then drop off the planet.  She would tell me things like "I have no money, can't even afford food" then I would see something on Facebook to contradict her words.  This was after I would give her money, buy her lunch or some little gift to make her day.  I felt like her big sister wanting to protect and help her.

As we got closer she would open up about her feelings - being overwhelmed, numb, trying to stabilize her emotions, unable to deal with some of her emotions, etc.  I didn't know anything about BPD at that stage.  After she would open up it wouldn't be long before she would go quiet again.

Then came jealousy.  If I was talking to someone she would come up and hug me from behind, segregate me from others, accuse me of dating people then the weirdest accusation... .that I slept with a woman.  I am very, very straight.  She starting saying that a couple of people I work with were trying to cause an argument between her and I (not at all), so she instantly hated them and made it difficult at work for one of them.  She flirted pretty heavy with me, but at the time I thought she was joking around.  

The odd behavior started to become an obsession with me trying to work out what was happening, so I started to pull away.  This is when I discovered a whole new her.  Unfortunately, we work for the same company.  A couple of times she has gone to work in another area if I am around - I've seen the panic on her face when she saw me and it completely had me baffled.  She is all loving and fine via messages, but completely different when she sees me.  A few months ago she caught me having a pash with a guy that works with her.  Oh my... .I got the death stare then she wouldn't look at me.  Told me she had to go and couldn't get away quick enough.

A couple of months ago I messaged her about her being distant.  Her reply was very defensive - told me over and over "you know I love you" and blamed her relationship issues for pulling back from everyone.  I, however, knew that she had increased spending time with a couple of people at work.

She came back with a vengeance a month ago, all loving messages and apologized for pulling back from me.  Told me she loved me and felt bad for pulling back.  Said she didn't want to offload on me.  She split up at that time with her bf as well.  We were supposed to meet for lunch over a week ago, she cancelled cause she was busy, but suggested a reschedule.  I ignored the request.  The following night she turned up at a place I was at with the couple of friends she's been hanging out with.  I was dumbfounded at the look on her face when she saw me.  It was a panic look from her.  She didn't speak to me at all.  Supposedly, she hasn't got much money yet she bought them a drink!

Haven't heard a word from her since.  The turning point for me was last week when I found out she was going out (no money huh?).  I also heard that she is praising her buddies for their support - they are her "support network and sounding board".  Yet she told me she has retracted from everyone.  And, they happen to be males!  I suspect she is gunning for one of the guys now.  It will be interesting as he works for the same company as well.

It was so hurtful for me to hear all that after everything I have done for her.  I finally got to a point where I can't deal with anymore pain, so I deleted her from Facebook 4 days ago.  I've done this a couple of times in the past, but she has messaged me the next day asking why.  This time I haven't heard a word from her!

I've been going to therapy for a few months now as I thought I was going crazy .  My therapist believes the relationship was much more than friendship for her and the craziness started when she realized she was 'in love' with me/got too close to me.  I am still struggling to understand how this can be when all we were was friends and I'm not gay.  There was no physical connection apart from a ton of affection - hugs, touching, etc.  She doesn't treat any of her other friends like she does me.  It all blows my mind.  

I am hoping this is the end now.  The fact that she hasn't queried me deleting her as a friend is a huge step forward.  Maybe this time I will be banished for good?

[Mutt]

 

Hi Hadlee,

I'd like to welcome you to the family. I'm glad that you decided to join. Idealization can have a powerful effect from a person with BPD and you can get lost in it all. It's frustrating, difficult and hard that she's in the same work area. I'm happy that you found us.

A person with BPD has troubles seeing the grey areas in life. She sees things in all black or white. For example, you started noticing behaviors a little later that threw off alarm bells when you say jealousy from treatment of others. She saw you as all white " overvalue" and the co-workers as all black " undervalue".

I'm sorry to hear you're struggling with this. I'm happy that you're talking to a T. You made a choice for now to block her from Facebook. Is it safe to assume that she's making you feel uncomfortable with the push / pull behavior? The "walking on eggshells" sort of feeling?

I think she doesn't understand the displays of affection and she has feelings for you. Is that what she telegraphs for you? What do your instincts tell you?

[Hadlee]

Thank you so much for the reply Mutt.  Your message brought tears to my eyes - it's a relief to find someone that understands this!

Yes, it definitely feels like she does have feelings for me.  It was a couple of years ago now that a number of my friends and colleagues told me they thought she was in love with me.  I dismissed it and put it down to neediness even though my gut told me something was going on.  She has been very possessive of me in the work environment, which did make me feel uncomfortable at times.  She made sexual advances towards me in front of her staff - saying what she would do to me.  I couldn't say anything cause I was shocked.  Thought she was joking, but she didn't smile or laugh!  What I felt very uncomfortable about - this year I gave her a birthday gift with a very personal letter in the card.  She pinned the letter up on her desk for all to see!  It's still there, 10 months later.  I was/am embarrassed by that.  She also has all the gifts I've given her placed front and centre.  She did tell me that my card had "pride of place" on her desk.  My T pointed out that it's like a shrine .   I will get random messages from her at work with just a love heart and xoxo then I may not hear from her for a couple or few days.  If I then instigate contact with a "hello" she replies over the top lovey dovey - declaring her love .  There is no normal work interaction - there always has to be xoxox at least.

Even things she writes on my Facebook wall and comments are all very over the top in a loving way.  She has a loving pet name for me that she even calls me on Facebook.  My friends have noticed that.  She doesn't do that to her other friends, who are mostly online friends.  There wasn't even that for her now ex bf.

The push/pull cycle has taken it's toll on me - trying to work out if I had done something wrong when she would go quiet.  It's caused a lot of pain.  I'm totally drained now.  Thought I was losing my mind there for a while .

This year has been the worst.  I have tried to stay away from her for the last few months as I haven't known what reaction I would get.  My gut told me that I was some kind of trigger, but I didn't know what.  The last time I really spoke to her in person she kept telling me how amazing I looked (it was like she was wanting to find out why I was dressed up that day).  She accused me of socialising a lot with my colleagues.  When I said no she said she just assumed.  She had obviously seen a post on Facebook about me being out one night with them a week earlier.  She hugged me tightly that day and ensured my face was pulled next to hers .  After that day she pulled back again.  It was after that I decided to try and avoid seeing her.  It's too confusing and hurtful.  I saw the hurt in her eyes that day as well, and it made me sad.

What I don't understand now is the lies.  She won't even mention the guys to me that she is hanging out with.  She tells me that she has retracted from everyone yet tells other people how they are so supportive.  I've seen her having coffee with them regularly, so I know she is hanging out with them.  This has really hurt me badly.  I don't understand why she is hiding her friendship with them to me only.  To me, her and I are friends, and I am happy she has other people to hang out with.  I'm not happy that she is lying about it.  It makes no sense to me.  I don't hide the fact I hang out with other friends.  This, I also feel she does not like.

[Mutt]

Hadlee,

I'm sorry this is embarrassing at the work place. It has to be hard in an area that you spend much time in and it's uncomfortable  

I think you can make this go away. I don't think it's a shrine. There's a great deal of her idealization. Unfortunately we can't control the actions of others. We can only control ours. It's difficult and you have co-workers in the mix here.

You can set boundaries on you. She does X and I respond with Y. Having said that. I think it would be a good idea to not talk to her. A facet of BPD is that it's an attachment disorder. She lacks a stable sense of self and doesn't really know who she is. If she's BPD ( is she diagnosed ) it doesn't sound to me like she has an attachment yet. Once she has an attachment, you'll be out of sight and out of mind to her.

I see you have a little caretaker in you. You felt sorry for her. It's understandable, many members here have done the same, we get involved because we feel sorry. Myself included.

The lying is her dissociating. It is an emotional based disorder. Negative feelings like shame and guilt she has a difficult time dealing with that. She can't cope. For her to make her feelings match with reality, she changes reality ( lies ) to feel better. I hope you're following me so far BPD is confusing. Her lying about friendships is because of her feelings. She feels bad and she's masking it.

I think we can help with advice on how to cope and make the situation better. She's not attached from the sounds of it. She doesn't have a girlfriend yet right?

[Hadlee]

Thanks again Mutt.  I appreciate your words so, so much  

She only split with her long term bf a month ago.  I believe she is idealizing one of her male friends now, who also works at work!  Apart from him, I don't believe there is another guy in the mix.  Once I noticed her spending an increasing amount of time with the guys, I was relieved as I thought her push/pull antics with me would stop.  But it hasn't.

She hasn't told me she is BPD - she said her doctor said she was Bipolar.  She's told me snippets of her mental illness, incl. being on mood stabilizers, which she went off a couple of years ago.  I don't know whether she has been diagnosed with BPD and is too ashamed to admit it or whether she hasn't.  

So, just so I understand, she is lying to me because she feels bad for pulling away from me?  Interesting... .she did tell me that she feels bad for doing so.  She has given me so many clues over the years regarding her illness, but I had no idea what BPD was.  Never heard of it before.

How does attachment work and how would I know if she has attached to me?  Is she likely to leave me alone now that I have deleted her from Facebook?  I know she is still active on there, so I would think she has realized I have deleted her by now.  This is day 5 and I haven't heard a word  

[Mutt]

You're welcome Hadlee  

I'd like you to know your not alone in this. I can relate. Same with all of our members.

BPD is a difficult disorder to detect. It's possible that people with the disorder get misdiagnosed as depression and even bi-polar. It's not a disorder that's insurable and sometimes it's passed as BP instead of BPD. It's up to the professionals to diagnose. My ex shows traits. I can choose to allow behaviors on myself. Boundaries. Simply keep the good stuff in and bad stuff out.

I'm not sure that I'd buy what she's saying at face value about her feelings. She may not be self aware. She may not even know she's BPD and it's not something that I recommend to tell the mentally ill that they are mentally ill. 60% of diagnosed people with a mental illness don't believe their sick. It's denial and a pwBPD are wired differently.

I don't think we're talking about the traditional push / pull behavior. When I say attachment I mean having been intimate with her. I think she's splitting. These periods of silence is because in her mind at that time she views you as all bad. So it's a primitive defend mechanism for her to cope with anxiety and stress. It protects her ego. It's subconscious.

You removed her from Facebook. A person with BPD has a poor understanding of boundaries. I'm going to have to say no here. Intimacy is what leads to attachment. I understand you said your not same sex but you both had some showings of affection? She's looking to attach, it's a part of the disorder. A process for ourselves in early childhood is to detach from a caretaker or parent. It is arrested development. Her sense of self is attributed to her attachments. If you asked her ( I don't recommend that you do ) she really doesn't know who she is. Once she finds a boyfriend or girlfriend you'll likely not hear from her again until they breakup.

Do you want to end this friendship? Or are you wanting to keep it?

[Hadlee]

Thanks.  That does make sense.

I'm at the point now where I want to end the friendship.  I need to live my own life - I've given her way too much of myself the last few years.  i am also feeling sorry for myself at how she has treated me .  I am, however, struggling with letting go though.

Yes, there has been a lot of affection.  I am a very touchy person.  With her I was even more so as I saw myself as the big sister wanting to protect her, and her being the child craving love and affection.  She has, at times, touched me inappropriately i.e. grabbed my boob one night and said "you do have great boobs"    There has been flirting on her part (I laughed off) - stroking of my hair, kissing her fingers then placing them on my face, touching my butt cause there was supposedly fluff on there .

We were, at one stage, playing a game online.  Both female avatars - she put a sex bed in her house (online game) and we would muck around with it.  For me, it was funny, but I see things differently now.  Our avatars kissed and did all sorts of things on that game.  Last time we were on there (I think March this year), she attached a dildo to her avatar and said "come here kitten, I'm a big boy".  I freaked after that .  My feeling is that she may have been living out her fantasy with me on that game.  I don't go on there with her anymore .

Interesting though... .I saw her in the office about a month ago.  She walked past me and said hello with a sad look on her face.  There was no attempt to hug - I just gave her a cold look.  As we walked past each other, she purposely bumped her shoulder heavily into mine.  I did what I needed to do then left without going up to her desk to speak.  Funny cause she went home sick about an hour later!

But, as I said, she had been loving since then via messages.

[Mutt]

Hadlee,

You show displays of affection. You got a little freaked out with the online game and the females avatars. You're intuition was telling you something. She's telegraphing she's interested. A part of the this phase is idealization. She puts you on a pedestal and some members say it sometimes feels a little off. Some like myself didn't really pick up the idealization.

She may act out and I want you to be prepared for that. A pwBPD are very sensitive to rejections. She may become angry and lie and smear you. I don't sense that at the moment.

You can communicate your boundaries to her and tell her you don't wish to be friends anymore. Block her from Facebook, don't respond to emails or reciprocate to gifts. If there's a different way into the office you may want to stay out of her way. This could go either way, she may display anger. Has she displayed disproportionate anger? It's a matter of her finding someone a boyfriend / girlfriend and to hold out until then.

Does she have your number? Does she call?

[Hadlee]

Yes, she does have my number, and my work number!  She stopped texting me earlier this year when she changed numbers.  She doesn't call me at work, just messages me via communicator in the office.  

I can try to avoid bumping into her by not going near where she is.  Unfortunately, I work very closely with her staff.  I dread the day I have a meeting and she is involved!  I've started getting her staff members to come to me for meetings, so I didn't have to see her.  She knows projects I am working on because of them, which I find creepy.  One day her staff member came over to me for a meeting and she said, "<name> said to say hi".  I found that creepy too

I have seen her angry before.  She has fired up then will break down in tears and cry like a child.  She's never lost it a me before - I've only seen her angry eyes when she caught me kissing a guy then when she accused me of sleeping with a lesbian at work.  These instances happened this year.

When I last went to my T over a month ago, he said that she will always be like this with me due to the connection i.e. lovey dovey.  He also said that any new relationship she has won't work if I am still in the picture.  That freaked me out as well

Sorry to ask so many questions.  With splitting - why on earth would she split me as a bad person when I'm normally so nice to her?  I don't quite get that.  I understand she is protecting herself, but is it protecting herself from me hurting her?  Or is she overwhelmed with her feelings for me?  This is hard to get my head around

[Turkish]

Hello Hadlee  

I saw your post earlier and thought "her T sounds right," and your subsequent posts confirm it.

It's good that you realize the idealization for what it is. I agree with Mutt that it's now about boundaries on your side. Switch her gender. If she were a man, this would qualify as sexual harassment, would it not? You're obviously uncomfortable to say the least.

I found the shrine comment interesting. A friend of mine had a likely BPD mother, in retrospect, low functioning. Her house did look like a shrine to her son, who had moved out. It went way beyond family pics on the wall. It was creepy.

To build on what Mutt said about attachment and arrested development,.pwBPD (people with BPD) suffer from a lack of object constancy. That is, an insecure and anxious attachment style. It can sometimes be out of sight, out of mind, but when idealized, out of sight,.out of existence, hence the need to keep pictures of their attachment, constant texts or "face time." It's an anxiety that they are going to be abandoned.

While I won't digress into definitions of love, BPD love is need based. Sure, we all need love, but for a pwBPD, need can be substituted for love, hence the idealization and objectifcation. Check out this thread for some insight on this:

Objectifying The Non Partner

Turkish

[Mutt]

I'd like to thank Turkish for shedding some light for us with your situation. I don't want to overwhelm you Hadlee. I'll add this.

With your communications with her its going to be hard I think because she may require a response. Don't say anything personal, act boring if you absolutely have to interact with her and especially in MOC.

Splitting is seeing things all good or all bad. It's not about you. It works subconsciously to protect her ego.

It's triggered when she feels anxiety and stress. She's not aware of this and it's not in her control. A goal can be to depersonalize by reading and educating on how the disorder works. Once you understand the nuts and bolts, things start to make sense and it's confusing to wrap your head around it at first. You kind of had a lovey dovey r/s. Use our boards to vent, when you don't understand what's going on at work with her or you feel frustrated with her. It's a good combo with your T and us. Perhaps you can do self discovery of why you came to have this connection with her.

Many members have a pwBPD in their lives and we're here to help each other with understanding our own situations and to offer support.

Again. You're not alone.



--Mutt

[Hadlee]

Thank you so much Turkish and Mutt 

I wish I had joined this site a long time ago.  The responses I have received from you both has made me feel so much better!  None of my friends can understand anything other than say, "she's in love with you, she's crazy, just stay away from her".  Easier said than done huh?

My T did warn me that I may experience some crazy behavior.  I guess I didn't/don't want to believe that it will happen, not from the friend I thought I had .  But I will certainly keep my guard up and be aware.

I'm now feeling a little guilty for deleting her on Facebook .  It kind of feels like the calm before the storm right now!

[Mutt]

I'm happy to hear you're feeling better. You're not crazy. Your friends don't get it because most of this behavior is displayed towards you and not them. They don't see the odd behavior and write it off as "crazy". Your friend isn't, she's wired different and copes different. That's all. When we try to explain this stuff it makes us look crazy   It helps to talk to people that have gone through this. It's understanding how the behavior works. It takes time. I'd suggest to talk to people that understand and don't explain her behaviors other than to your T. You don't have to justify and defend her actions. She owns her actions you don't.

[Turkish]

Thank you so much Turkish and Mutt 

I wish I had joined this site a long time ago.  The responses I have received from you both has made me feel so much better!  None of my friends can understand anything other than say, "she's in love with you, she's crazy, just stay away from her".  Easier said than done huh?

My T did warn me that I may experience some crazy behavior.  I guess I didn't/don't want to believe that it will happen, not from the friend I thought I had .  But I will certainly keep my guard up and be aware.

I'm now feeling a little guilty for deleting her on Facebook .  It kind of feels like the calm before the storm right now!

No matter how well meaning our friends are, their responses can be invalidating, as they don't acknowledge our feelings. Validation is key for a pwBPD, but everyone needs it. Invalidating comments from my friends were, "she's stupid. No one liked her. You're better off to let her enact her controlling behaviors on someone else." All of this is true, but it doesn't help me understand. You're confused and frustrated. How does saying , "let it go" help?

I hope you continue to find our family here supportive, Hadee 

Turkish

[neverloveagain]

Not meaning to hijack a thread was just interested in what turkish said about picture shrines. My BPDexgf had a wall of pictures family and old friends old times etc what i noticed was if she had an argument with people they would be removed from the wall untill she made up then when painted white again the pictures would re appear up. And sometimes she had pics up to prove to herself some ex old friends were real once. I suspect i have been taken down and put in the drawer ready to recycle in her mind later on .

[Aussie JJ]

Hi Hadlee,

Sorry I am a bit slow to get back, I saw the thread earlier and wanted to jump in like Turkish.  What Mutt has said is true and with Turkish there are some things that he has highlighted that are very hard to comprehend.  Understanding mental illness is one thing, understanding mental illness when we are emotionally involved with someone is even harder. 

To explain what I'm saying, for yourself and probably 80-90 % of the population we all see things as whole objects, good, bad ugly and the grey bits in between with people.  You see a friend who has issues who you want to help who can be the life of the party and a pleasure to go out with one evening and the next.  The cold shoulder, ignores you without a care in the world, like you ar enothing, a piece of chewing gum on her shoe is more important.  It is a pattern that we all know from being involved with a pwBPD at some stage and hence on these boards. 

This is an extreame example, one that is very hot and cold.  In otherwords, all or nothing, black and white thinking.  One day at the office a big hug, she thinks you are everything, the next she is with another friend and your nothing to her.  It is hard to understand this behaviour as it isnt normal!  That is why it has this effect on us of making us question ourselves constantly. 

From your friends side if she does have BPD 'object consistancy' is something that is on a basic level a bit like kids in the sand pit, my son is the example I use for this as I see it every time I am with him.  It's emotional maturity.  While my son is playing with a excavator he is totally involved in playing with that toy, 100 % commited to the idea of being the excavator, make the sounds, move the dirt.  Absolutly engroused in the activity.  The next day, my son isnt in the sandpit, he is playing with his Thomas the train and going around making treain noises, I'm playing with him and he expects me to be the ticket master asking for tickets.  Totally engrossed in being the train and playing with the train.  My son is one with that object and it is all good while he is playign with it. 

Emotional maturity for adults tells us its a game, I am playing along in the sand pit now and I am being the construction manager and my son is having fun.  The next day I am the ticket master.  I know that they are seperate activities that I am performing at different times, they are no threat to each other they are mutually exclusive and in between I do other activities.  For my son, due to not having developed emotional maturity, to bring the excavator along to the train game is just unheard of, he is totally engrosed in being the train, the excavator threatens the train game so he will push it away, tell me no playing with Thomas. 

BPD has many traits that are difucult to understand.  Emotional maturity when looked at like this and paraphrased to your situation.  Your friend when with you is out with you, you are meeting her needs to go out, have fun, she is one with you and everyone else will get the cold shoulder as they will threaten her time with you.  Totally engroused in that moment in time with YOU, drinks the same drinks? likes the same music?  There may be a sexual attraction to you that she doesnt know how to explain or express properly.  That can be a bit of the push pull with backing off for no reason, she tells you your amazing and a great friend, opens up. 

The very next day when out socialising with other friends she will be totally engroused in them, she will mirror those friends and when she sees you, your a threat to that attachment to those friends, your a threat to that relationship in her eyes, you are seperate entities and unable to be mixed together without confusion. 

You, friend A like to drink orange juice and vodka, friend B likes belgium beer and when out with her she drinks belgium beer, totally engroused in that relationship. 

Much the same as my son with the train and excavator, your friend has underdeveloped emotional maturity and is unable to 'mix' the two sets of friends, when they are put together she will be trying to mirror two different toys to her, two different attachments.  That makes her confused and lost, unable to relate to two different people whom she mirrors in different ways when around them. 

This is something that to your or me is foreign, it is very What the heck.  That is what you seem to be explaining to me. 

I hope this makes a bit of sense to you? 

I'll try to go through some of the things we can do to sort of be a bit more open when in this dynamic however I want to see first if what im sayign makes sense to you? 

Hope I havent gone off on a tangent!


AJJ. 

[Hadlee]

Not meaning to hijack a thread was just interested in what turkish said about picture shrines. My BPDexgf had a wall of pictures family and old friends old times etc what i noticed was if she had an argument with people they would be removed from the wall untill she made up then when painted white again the pictures would re appear up. And sometimes she had pics up to prove to herself some ex old friends were real once. I suspect i have been taken down and put in the drawer ready to recycle in her mind later on .

Neverloveagain - that is so interesting.  As my friends relationship spiraled out of control this year (it has been rough for a few years now), I noticed she took down photos of him from her desk.  More and more she would remove personal items associated to their relationship. 

I was at her desk last week and she hasn't removed a thing of mine... .yet

[Hadlee]

AJJ - that makes SO MUCH SENSE to me.  It is exactly what has been happening with her.  No wonder she has the look of panic on her face when she's with them and sees me!  I have noticed on Facebook that she has recently liked a few things that is out of character for her, but clearly what these guys like.  

She is a different person with them.  There is no affection from her with them and she always looks sad or serious .  Very, very different to her interaction with me.

I have struggled so much with feeling replaced and not good enough.  I've always included her with my friends (most times she declines unless it is only her and I), but she never involves me with them.

The only time I have been near all of them was earlier this year.  It was another hurtful experience for me.  I messaged her to ask if she wanted a coffee.  She did, so I told her I would be there in 10.  I turn up and here she is sitting with those guys away from her desk.  It was hurtful to me as she was a real smartass and didn't seem to care.  She knew I was going to see her, so just happened to go and sit with them.  She was so different.

She hasn't pulled anything like that since, thank goodness!

Oh and my T did mention once that she may be struggling with her feelings towards me, hence her retracting as perhaps she cannot admit it me let alone herself.

[CareTaker]

Neverloveagain - that is so interesting.  As my friends relationship spiraled out of control this year (it has been rough for a few years now), I noticed she took down photos of him from her desk.  More and more she would remove personal items associated to their relationship

what i noticed was if she had an argument with people they would be removed from the wall untill she made up

This is so funny. My ex had pics of herself all over the flat. Even upstairs in the bedroom. There where a few pics of me and us as well, but with every fight they would come down and be put away, till we made up again and she would put them back.

Once I started planning my escape, I told her to rather just not put pics of me up anymore. So much less hassle.

[neverloveagain]

My BPDexgf always got annoyed her 'friends' were only friends when it suited them but of course she really pushed them all away they got sick of her till they just left well alone. The pictures thing is really interesting like mine needed constant reminders around to re asure her who is real in her life when she is alone i guess. We had a small fall out in year 5 where we gave each other space for a week, when  came round to hers to talk she had surgically removed every pic and momento i got for her drom the house it was strange. I asked her about it she coldly replied i thought you had gone. I still had her things at my house it was a tiff not the end. She keeps her pictures hidden and cycles them.

[neverloveagain]

I mean theres a stash of painted black persons but from time to time when she remembers then they cycle on to the main wall of photos normally when she tries to reach back out to them if they dont respond they dissapear till the next time. Dont think mine will ever be put back up i hope anyway.

[maxen]

hi Hadlee. 

Oh and my T did mention once that she may be struggling with her feelings towards me, hence her retracting as perhaps she cannot admit it me let alone herself.

from what you've written this seems very much to be the case. Mutt has mentioned boundaries, and you seem to be putting these into place, which is good work.    but being in the same workplace will necessitate contact, as you've said. how clear are you within yourself about where you stand?

[Hadlee]

hi Hadlee.  

Oh and my T did mention once that she may be struggling with her feelings towards me, hence her retracting as perhaps she cannot admit it me let alone herself.

from what you've written this seems very much to be the case. Mutt has mentioned boundaries, and you seem to be putting these into place, which is good work.    but being in the same workplace will necessitate contact, as you've said. how clear are you within yourself about where you stand?

Thanks Maxen  

I have been in two minds as to how to handle communication in the workplace.  My initial thought was to block internal communicator so she wouldn't be able to message me, however I don't really want to make her angry  It's hard because nobody else at work has seen or experienced what I have.  They don't realize who she really is.  She's been playing the victim of her abusive bf and her depression for a long time now and has roped people in for sympathy.  

There are some people that just think she's attention seeking and doesn't take responsibility for anything, but they don't realize the extent of her illness as they aren't that close to her.  She is in a high position at work (same level as me) and is loved by the GM.  If she wanted to, she could make life a little difficult for me.  I don't know how on earth I would cope with a hate campaign  :'(  Fortunately, I do have some pretty protective people in my corner that know the full story.  They don't work with her, but know her, and have had interactions with her at times.  And they know what I have been through as they've heard me whinge and cry .

Now I'm thinking it may be best just to leave it unblocked and if she does contact me then I shall keep it short and sweet.  AJJ has been awesome with his advice tonight and advised me to read up the communication tools.

My heart tells me to block her completely.  I want to stop hurting and the space will let me regroup, but at the same time, my gut is telling me to be careful.

I'm still a little surprised that she hasn't contacted me about deleting her on Facebook.  Surely she would have noticed by now.  That is confusing.

Hopefully, she is too busy with her shiny new friends/toys and targeting them now, so won't worry about me.  Best case scenario is she doesn't contact me then I can grieve the loss of a friend I thought I had and the person I thought she was.  I don't enjoy seeing her anymore - she is foreign to me now - that hurts me too.  It's sad.  Any contact with her now just ends up hurting me.  I know the old her will never return  :'(

[Mutt]

Now I'm thinking it may be best just to leave it unblocked and if she does contact me then I shall keep it short and sweet.

I agree with this strategy Hadlee. The reason why I say this is because a pwBPD is sensitive to rejection. An example, you're a few minutes late to join her due to traffic or whatever the case may be. To her she doesn't understand the context of the reason why. Feelings are facts, not facts followed by feelings. If you block her this may trigger her sensitivity to rejection.

I'm not experienced with work place r/s. I think become less interesting, act boring and share less. Always be nice in communiqué's.

- Gradually become more boring, talk less, share less feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore "The Borderline" to lessen the emotional attachment, at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.

Leaving A Partner with Borderline Personality

[Hadlee]

Thanks Mutt

Will do that.

I also think if I ever get a message from her asking about the deletion on Facebook, I think I might fib now and say it must have been accidental .  Yeah I'm not feeling so tough now 

[Mutt]

Thanks Mutt

Will do that.

I also think if I ever get a message from her asking about the deletion on Facebook, I think I might fib now and say it must have been accidental .  Yeah I'm not feeling so tough now  

Hadlee,

I'm thinking this shrine at work would telegraph that she's found someone else when she does? If she takes it down and puts someone else up perhaps? It telegraphs an attachment? A sort of beacon that you're in the clear?

[Hadlee]

Thanks Mutt

Will do that.

I also think if I ever get a message from her asking about the deletion on Facebook, I think I might fib now and say it must have been accidental .  Yeah I'm not feeling so tough now  

Hadlee,

I'm thinking this shrine at work would telegraph that she's found someone else when she does? If she takes it down and puts someone else up perhaps? It telegraphs an attachment? A sort of beacon that you're in the clear?

Ok cool.  I'll keep an eye on that when she is out of the office, of course  As of last week, all of my things were still there, including the letter.  I did take a good look to see if anything else was added (I must have known something), but there was nothing new.  No new addition or gift or anything to indicate a new shiny toy in her life.  Now when I think about it - there is nothing associated to these guys on her desk.  She has been getting closer to them for the last year too.  Hmmm interesting observation.

[Mutt]

Well you can use this as an advantage of knowing what mood she's in right? I understand the embarrassment. The silver lining is that she's subconsciously sending out a message I think. 

[maxen]

Fortunately, I do have some pretty protective people in my corner that know the full story.

 

that's excellent, really excellent.

[bruised]

Hi Hadlee,

While the situation you find yourself in is complex, I think the root of it is simply a case of unrequited love. Unrequited love is very painful whether you are BPD or not. I've been there.  :'(

It sounds like you two had a very intense friendship. She was (is) attracted to you and displayed this in ways that were inappropriate for a friend. While these inappropriate displays of affection made you feel uncomfortable, it appears that you didn't put a stop to them until it was too late. She may have taken this as a "green light" from you. I'm not criticising you- it's a very difficult situation. But despite her obvious issues, I can see why she probably feels rejected. And for a BPD, that's their core fear.

I have some experience with this as the rejected party. I had a female friend. We were close and she used to be very affectionate with me (although not as affectionate as your friend was to you!). She was also a little jealous of me talking to other women. A mutual female friend told me she was sure this woman had a huge crush on me. After she flirted quite heavily with me on one occasion I told her I had feelings for her. She was shocked and said she didn't have feelings for me. I was devastated and embarrassed. Her behaviour made no sense for someone who said she only wanted a platonic relationship. It was only when I started searching the internet for answers that I discovered BPD. She is undiagnosed as far as I know- but I'm pretty sure she has it. I only relate this story to show how misinterpreting a person's feelings for you can lead to some serious difficulties.

Have you tried having a heart-to-heart talk with her about your mismatched feelings?