Nons and illogical thinking

[jammo1989]

Having a moment of weakness right now, and its really made me think, why do we still love/ miss our exes, it it because we accept mental illness? For example:

1. I always payed for everything

2. I was cheated on

3. She overlapped relationship with my replacment

4. She has no job

5. 25 with 2 kids, was dumped because she wanted me to give her another child

6. She made me so insecure and paranoid throughout

7. Burned bridges with me (blocked, deleted, and told to never contact her again) all this was said with a massive grin on her face

8. She has zero family members

9. Her porn star fufill your wildest fantasies sex was literally all an act

10. Manipulated her 6 year old son to hate me

Why the hell do i still want to contact this person? Its driving me mad!

[vortex of confusion]

Feelings are not always very logical. Feelings can be very irrational and make absolutely no sense.

That is why it is good to not act on feelings and instead focus on what IS logical. It can be very hard to sit on your feelings without acting on them. Hang in there!

[jammo1989]

Feelings are not always very logical. Feelings can be very irrational and make absolutely no sense.

That is why it is good to not act on feelings and instead focus on what IS logical. It can be very hard to sit on your feelings without acting on them. Hang in there!

I think the burning bridges trait is whats got me so wrapped up in all of this thick fog.  I understand that ties are cut to punish and assert control over us NONs, but what is the thought process behind this? Do they secretly want you to reach out, by acting like they dont care? I know shes got a new guy, she was FB official the day after i said i cant do this anymore, the push/pull behaviour was driving me to insanity.  I wont contact her, as i wont act on my emotions, but i find it incredibly hard to understsnd the fact that, the more loyal and good we were to them the worse we get discarded in the end.

[vortex of confusion]

I think the burning bridges trait is whats got me so wrapped up in all of this thick fog.  I understand that ties are cut to punish and assert control over us NONs, but what is the thought process behind this? Do they secretly want you to reach out, by acting like they dont care? I know shes got a new guy, she was FB official the day after i said i cant do this anymore, the push/pull behaviour was driving me to insanity.  I wont contact her, as i wont act on my emotions, but i find it incredibly hard to understsnd the fact that, the more loyal and good we were to them the worse we get discarded in the end.

Take a deep breath and take a step back!

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. You don't know that her purpose is to punish you and assert control over you. There is also a chance that it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you. With a lot of people with BPD traits, out of sight is out of mind. If she already has a new guy, they you are probably just a distant memory and all of her energies are focused on the new guy. You said you couldn't do it any more so she walked away. What were you expecting from her when you said you couldn't do it any more? Did you want her to volunteer to change? Did you want her to fight for your relationship?

From her point of view, she probably feels like you discarded her since you are the one that said you couldn't do it any more.

I do understand your point of view though. It isn't easy to deal with feeling like you meant nothing to somebody that you loved.

[Mutt]

Feelings are not always very logical. Feelings can be very irrational and make absolutely no sense.

That is why it is good to not act on feelings and instead focus on what IS logical. It can be very hard to sit on your feelings without acting on them. Hang in there!

I think the burning bridges trait is whats got me so wrapped up in all of this thick fog.  I understand that ties are cut to punish and assert control over us NONs, but what is the thought process behind this? Do they secretly want you to reach out, by acting like they dont care? I know shes got a new guy, she was FB official the day after i said i cant do this anymore, the push/pull behaviour was driving me to insanity.  I wont contact her, as i wont act on my emotions, but i find it incredibly hard to understsnd the fact that, the more loyal and good we were to them the worse we get discarded in the end.

I think it's the space between logic and feelings. Wise mind.

You ask a good question jammo1989. You're self reflecting. You're looking at what you owned in this r/s. I think find it in you to validate yourself for this. It's significant.

The answers come on their own terms. Detachment takes time. You're on the right path.

[Rise]

I understand that ties are cut to punish and assert control over us NONs, but what is the thought process behind this?

I'm not so sure it's always about punishing or controlling someone else. I think often (not always, but often) it's about protecting themselves and trying to control their own emotional pain. They cut us off because at the time it's too hard for them to deal with us.

And I don't know that you're ever going to get a satisfactory answer to what their thought process is. People with BPD are driven by emotion. Emotions aren't really a thought out thing. You're trying to rationalize the irrational, which is just never going to work. We can't understand the thought process, because frankly, our brains just don't function in the same manner.

Do you know why it's this one aspect that's got you so wrapped up?

[jammo1989]

I think the burning bridges trait is whats got me so wrapped up in all of this thick fog.  I understand that ties are cut to punish and assert control over us NONs, but what is the thought process behind this? Do they secretly want you to reach out, by acting like they dont care? I know shes got a new guy, she was FB official the day after i said i cant do this anymore, the push/pull behaviour was driving me to insanity.  I wont contact her, as i wont act on my emotions, but i find it incredibly hard to understsnd the fact that, the more loyal and good we were to them the worse we get discarded in the end.

Take a deep breath and take a step back!

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. You don't know that her purpose is to punish you and assert control over you. There is also a chance that it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you. With a lot of people with BPD traits, out of sight is out of mind. If she already has a new guy, they you are probably just a distant memory and all of her energies are focused on the new guy. You said you couldn't do it any more so she walked away. What were you expecting from her when you said you couldn't do it any more? Did you want her to volunteer to change? Did you want her to fight for your relationship?

From her point of view, she probably feels like you discarded her since you are the one that said you couldn't do it any more.

I do understand your point of view though. It isn't easy to deal with feeling like you meant nothing to somebody that you loved.

Hey Vortex, ill write this out in the shortest way possible for you, the night before, she dumped me i slept at hers, and everything seemed perfect, amazing sex, cuddles on the sofa, was told its nice to have my man back, in the sense that, the reason why i was being devalued is because she wanted her 3rd child with me, and proceeded to threaten to keep the baby if she was indeed pregnant.  The day after i slept at hers, i noticed yet again on FB she was liking pictures of some new guy, and at this point my gut feeling kicked in.  I rang her and said i know you like this guy, so why wont you just be straight with me?  Her reply i cant do this anymore its over!

2 weeks went by and during this time she was pulling me back in then pushing me away, she would text me saying hey, then wouldmt text back for days on end.  Would ignore my texts, then after 3-4 days of being ignored wokld send me a picture of her naked saying you want this James dont you? Told her 6 year old son that she still loved James (me) and Thay he needs to accept that its mummys house, mummys rules.

In the end she begged and pleaded to meet up with me to give eachother our belongings back, i said no ill leave then at your bedt friends, she rang me like 12 times crying, saying no you will see me, you will see how much youve hurt me (what have i done wrong?)

The day came, i met up with her she tried making me jealous from the start, guys are hitting on me now im single, im now working (which was and still is a lie) my reaction to each mind game was cool! She then ran up to me said i love you so much James you know im your girl, you know you mean the world to me, later that day i was given a hickey, and we kissed, held hands and cuddled. Later that day when i had to leave she burst out crying.

A week went by of her pulling and pushing me went by, and i had enough my head was fried, that is when i said i cant do this anymore!

The day after she was FB official and the guy slept at hers, she then sent me one last message saying you now have your stuff back, so dont ever contact me again, my number, fb, everything has been blocked by her. 

Thats what i do t and will never get her actions and words were literally i love you all the way to the point of being blocked, her son was even told 2 weeks prior that she loved me. 

This is why my heads ___ed, alot of the people on this forum say their exes started acting cold towards them and withholding sex, mine was all over me like a rash.

[fromheeltoheal]

I discovered, after a while, that it was the idealized fantasy in my head that I missed, not the real her or the real relationship.  Being mirrored by someone who is extra-motivated to attach is a potent drug, and add the loneliness and susceptibility I was in when she showed up, and off to the races we went.  She'd touched a very deep part of me, that pure connectedness I'd been searching for since childhood; was it to get back there, or finally get there?  Hmmm, growth opportunity there.  But it became clear that the her I attached to was a fiction, so I was never going to get what I needed there, although the fantasy did pull for a while and needed to be disconnected from the real her.

I understand that ties are cut to punish and assert control over us NONs, but what is the thought process behind this?

Not necessarily.  The thought process is if a borderline gets too close to someone they will lose themselves, feel engulfed is the term, and if they get too far away they will feel abandoned, a continual struggle with the only contentment being on the fence between the two, which is always moving.  So the solution is to be in total control in the relationship, which eliminates your power to effect how she feels.  It doesn't work though, because what a borderline wants is to be loved as an independent person, not a dependent one, like everyone, but if they are in control, their partner is not able to give love of his own free will, so any 'love' gotten is meaningless.

[.cup.car]

It's not in our biological makeup to turn our brains off when dealing with the mentally ill. As humans, we're all under the impression that we're all under one roof and abiding by the same moral code. Our brains simply aren't wired or trained for what happens when the mentally ill don't abide by this moral code and excessively manipulate/lie/cheat/steal with reckless abandon. We can't comprehend it. We think they'll just snap out of it one day.

[jammo1989]

Thank you for the kind responses guys, one thing that does worry me at times is this:

My ex had a very abusive childhood, strangled, beaten by her own mother, and put into foster care for her own protection.  16 months into the relationship, she started having nightmares about a guy called Jason, this was her mothers bf at the time, and the one that strangled her when she was only 14.  Long story short, my exes friend was there at the time when it happened many years ago, jumped on this evil man and repeatedly told him your hurting her please stop! My exes mother ran up the stairs, threw my exes friend of this evil man and let him carry on, she later woke up in a paralysed state of shock and extremely emotional. These nightmares triggered her BPD, but when she openened up to me, I went absolutely ballistic, this was solely because I had already spent a few nights at her mothers house with my ex before I knew any of this.  My ex still laughed and loved her mum and always made the effort to be there for her knowing full well her mother was just using her the whole time.  My reply in my enraged state was:

How dare she, you disgust me Bonnie, how can you possibly even communicate with such a monster? And her reply after breaking out in tears, she's my mother, I have to love her because if I don't nobody else will?  She literally broke down, and I just couldn't get my head around the fact after all that my ex still loved and wanted to be in her mothers life.

This is what worries me, now I know how my ex feels, my ex was horrible towards me at times, and even though I'm a healthy, sane person, I still at times feel like even after everything she's done to hurt me I still want her in life.

Why am I starting to think life she does towards her mother? When during the relationship I couldn't get my head around the whole wanting to to have that bond with someone that's been malicious and almost evil towards you.

[Pingo]

Why am I starting to think life she does towards her mother? When during the relationship I couldn't get my head around the whole wanting to to have that bond with someone that's been malicious and almost evil towards you.

The same reason an abused woman (or man) keeps going back to their abuser... .the trauma bond.  Traumatic experiences bond people just as much as good experiences.  Maybe more so if you've had trauma in your childhood.  It's familiar.

[fred6]

Jammo, you want to contact her because you want her validation. The love that she had for you wasn't the same love that you had for her. Even if she called you today and said that she loved you, it's not the love that you want or need from her. Her phone call may make you feel better, but the same push/pull cycle would play out. I think that in many of these relationships that things get to a point to where the relationship cannot and will not be able to continue even if the ex wants to recycle. Just too much baggage on both sides of the r/s.

[jammo1989]

Jammo, you want to contact her because you want her validation. The love that she had for you wasn't the same love that you had for her. Even if she called you today and said that she loved you, it's not the love that you want or need from her. Her phone call may make you feel better, but the same push/pull cycle would play out. I think that in many of these relationships that things get to a point to where the relationship cannot and will not be able to continue even if the ex wants to recycle. Just too much baggage on both sides of the r/s.

Hey Fred thanks for your response, yeah I know exactly where your coming from, it's all about her needs and not mine, but like I saw from an earlier post on the forum, guys are envious of the exes that burned bridges never to be contacted again, where as id much rather hear from her right now, yeah the high would only be short term, but like you said validation is the goal.

[fred6]

Jammo, you want to contact her because you want her validation. The love that she had for you wasn't the same love that you had for her. Even if she called you today and said that she loved you, it's not the love that you want or need from her. Her phone call may make you feel better, but the same push/pull cycle would play out. I think that in many of these relationships that things get to a point to where the relationship cannot and will not be able to continue even if the ex wants to recycle. Just too much baggage on both sides of the r/s.

Hey Fred thanks for your response, yeah I know exactly where your coming from, it's all about her needs and not mine, but like I saw from an earlier post on the forum, guys are envious of the exes that burned bridges never to be contacted again, where as id much rather hear from her right now, yeah the high would only be short term, but like you said validation is the goal.

I'm right there with you. I kind of wish my ex would let me know that I meant something to her. And just like those guys are envious of our exes that burned bridges. At the same time, we're envious of the recycler's exes because we want validation from our exes. But to be honest, if my ex tried to contact me right now, I don't know what I'd do. I'm a fully grown man and kind of muscular and I think that I would be scared if I saw her number pop up on my phone. Don't know actually why I would feel scared, but it can't be good, hahaha... .

[ThanksForPlaying]

Have you ever been in a relationship like this before with a girl who had family issues? What about a relationship where you were the giver? I recently found "No More Mr Nice Guy" - quick read and not specifically about BPD but very interesting ideas to help you work on yourself.

As for the emotional damage, it's terrible for her and you just need to decide what you're trying to accomplish. She'll never totally forget those attacks, so your best case scenario is dealing with someone who has major issues running through her head all the time.

I personally seem to be addicted to that stuff in others and working through 'why' as I had a fairly uneventful childhood myself.

[tim_tom]

I discovered, after a while, that it was the idealized fantasy in my head that I missed, not the real her or the real relationship.  Being mirrored by someone who is extra-motivated to attach is a potent drug, and add the loneliness and susceptibility I was in when she showed up, and off to the races we went.  She'd touched a very deep part of me, that pure connectedness I'd been searching for since childhood; was it to get back there, or finally get there?  Hmmm, growth opportunity there.  But it became clear that the her I attached to was a fiction, so I was never going to get what I needed there, although the fantasy did pull for a while and needed to be disconnected from the real her.

yep, this is the breakthrough I had that moved me through bargaining and denial ... .I preach this same thing here all the time. What we pine for, never really existed

[jammo1989]

Have you ever been in a relationship like this before with a girl who had family issues? What about a relationship where you were the giver? I recently found "No More Mr Nice Guy" - quick read and not specifically about BPD but very interesting ideas to help you work on yourself.

As for the emotional damage, it's terrible for her and you just need to decide what you're trying to accomplish. She'll never totally forget those attacks, so your best case scenario is dealing with someone who has major issues running through her head all the time.

I personally seem to be addicted to that stuff in others and working through 'why' as I had a fairly uneventful childhood myself.

I had no trauma in my life growing up, as I came from a very healthy background, this is why this trauma, or as you put it emotional damage has really effected me.  To her burning bridges was probably extremely easily because she's learnt to dissociate her emotions as part of her inner defence mechanisms.  Where as because I've never suffered trauma im say here down as hell thinking, why would she do all this to me? I'll admit I'm co dependant by nature, I gave and gave to make sure her lifestyle was equal to mine, the kids got a big 20ft trampoline, an iPad mini, an Apple TV, she got a double bed £500 worth of pandora charms over a 2 year period, a £1200 holiday and other things.  She has nothing, no family, no future, no job and no life, and that's why I can't fully let go.  It wasn't my fault this all happened to her, I know this, but what keeps my head spinning is the downgrade replacements, for example, the new guy is still in college, lives with his mum in a council house, doesn't have a job, and a boy racer.  Where as I'm the total opposite, a degree, wealthy parents, gave her the world, but it seems to me as if all she wanted was for someone to accept her for who she truly was.  She even told me I want a baby with you and I don't care if that means us living on the streets for a while, the irrational thoughts just go over my head.  What angers me the most is she knows my weakness and uses it to hurt me.  I was head over heels in love with her 3 year old daughter, would have done anything for her, we had such an amazing bond, cuddled her, put her to bed at night carried her around town, almost felt like my own.  And all I got From my ex during the push and pull was: Holly misses you James, she won't stop asking for you, then when I went to say, can I talk to her then my ex would say no you can't with a big grin on her face.