Her anger at my needs (for sleep), my anger at her anger

[adventurer]

Looking for any advice or insight people here have to this situation.

A couple nights ago, I spent the evening helping my wife with a project that she really wanted to get done.  I went into this happily and willingly.  We finished up about 11pm, I did some household chores for the next 45 minutes or so and then told her I was going to bed.

Immediately, she was upset.  She acted hurt, gave me a bad, sarcastic attitude and said she had been looking forward to hanging out with me.  I fought my urge to justify going to bed at midnight (around my typical time).  I fought my urge to say that I had helped her all night with her project, wasn't that good enough?  I just told her I'm sorry there wasn't more time.  I have her a big hug, told her I loved her, gave her a kiss (she was a brick wall this whole time) and went off to bed.

Soon after she was in the bedroom for something or other and she sulked off to watch tv, saying she would leave me alone.  I just told her I felt bad that I was upsetting her, but I needed to sleep.

The next day consisted mostly of silent treatment from her, and me acting oblivious to that and trying to engage her in occasional conversation.  We were running some errands after work and she was finally starting to open up again when she mentioned the problems of the night before again.  It seemed she was either fishing for me to apologize for going to be, or she was fishing for an argument, hoping I would attempt to justify my behavior.  Instead, I just calmly told her that it was too bad we didn't have more time that night to spend together, but I had the next couple of nights free with no projects scheduled so I was sure we could have some quality time then.

The silent treatment intensified that evening and finally has melted today.

I feel I handled this well, but at one point when I was alone I just let the rage out of me.  I yelled that I work so hard and do so much and do not deserve for her to treat me like this.  I was so angry.  I calmed myself down and tried to think, what is it about this relationship and this behavior from her that serves me psychologically?  What need or problem do I have that this fulfills.  I am coming up blank.  What can I learn about myself from this?  I tried to imagine her as a hurt child and just remain loving and open to her.

At the same time, I have to admit I don't like being treated this way from her.  What sort of boundary can I set for myself?  :)o I just tell her, "It seems like you're just giving me the silent treatment.  This makes me feel really bad so I am going to go off by myself for awhile."?

This is not the first time she has attempted to guilt trip me or start arguments for me going to bed earlier than she does.  Before I learned some techniques it usually ended in me screaming at her at the top of my lungs and sleeping on the couch.  She doesn't work and she sleeps as late as she wants.  She acts so caring about me sometimes but then just couldn't care less about my need for sleep.  It's aggravating.

[maxen]

I feel I handled this well

it sounds like you did!

but at one point when I was alone I just let the rage out of me.  I yelled that I work so hard and do so much and do not deserve for her to treat me like this.  I was so angry.

 

ayup, i've been there.

I calmed myself down and tried to think, what is it about this relationship and this behavior from her that serves me psychologically?  What need or problem do I have that this fulfills.  I am coming up blank.  What can I learn about myself from this?  I tried to imagine her as a hurt child and just remain loving and open to her.

excellent questions. about myself i can say that i stayed and tolerated my w's behavior for maybe three reasons. i thought "it's this or nothing", and that was better than nothing. i was replaying FOO issues, wherein i got nothing but frustration from dealing with my parents, and i was used to it. there was also the religious aspect. there is no divorce where i'm from, unlike in my wife's culture, where it's a viable option.

do any of those ring with you?

[adventurer]

So last night she is still trying to bait me into an argument about this.  She accused me of giving her the silent treatment for 2 days.  SHE was the one doing the silent treatment!  I tried to remind her of specific instances where I was trying to engage her in conversation, how I tried to hug her, kiss her, tell her I loved her, and met with a brick wall.  

I told her I understand that she was upset that I needed to go to bed and that it was ok for her to feel that way.  She told me she 'needed' me to hang out with her instead.  I told her I should not need to justify my need for sleep to her and that it's ok if she's upset about that, but that she needs to learn how to deal with her own anger instead of giving me the impossible task of putting her at ease emotionally at the same time that she is pushing me away.

I really think she is pushing for me to say that I'm sorry I went to bed that night.  I'm not apologizing for that, so she is trying to bait me into a big fight so I lose my cool and then I can feel terrible for yelling at her and she can feel vindicated for being mad.  She can't control my behavior about going to bed, so she is trying to control my behavior by making me lose my temper.

I am really trying to make things work with her but the effort is so draining.  It's really unfortunate that I cannot get through to her.  She is just waking up now after spending the night on the couch and already I feel my sense of apprehension rising.  This really sucks.

just venting I guess, thanks

[adventurer]

I missed your reply, maxen.  I have done a lot of soul-searching lately about FOO and while there are issues there, this aspect of my relationship doesn't seem to resonate with anything specifically there for me.

I am beginning to think that it's just a case of my self-esteem being so low that I feel I deserve this kind of treatment and can't do any better.  I do think the caretaker aspect of my personality goes back to old childhood wounds but I'm now learning to be the caretaker for myself first.

I do think about divorce a lot but that is it's own nightmare.

thanks

[maxen]

I am beginning to think that it's just a case of my self-esteem being so low that I feel I deserve this kind of treatment and can't do any better.

but you know that you don't deserve it, right? those are different things, feeling and knowing, but if you know, in some factual sense, that you don't deserve it, it's a place from which to start recovering. does that make any sense? over the past 16 months since my d-day, i had to face important decisions some days, and forced myself to act on my knowledge (i must protect my assets, i must regain some control over my condition), and i was in such a state of degradation from her treatment that i wonder how i did it, but it worked.

[adventurer]

Yes, I do know.  I have made a lot of progress.  The status quo is upended and there is a lot of fallout, but I am doing my best to take care of myself and do what is best for my well-being.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey adventurer, I've been in your shoes, many times.  Baiting, goading and bullying are common behaviors for a pwBPD.  They will keep pushing, in my experience, until they get a reaction out of you, in order to flip roles from victimizer to victim.  It's a constant cycle, flip-flopping between victimizer and victim.  Seems like you handled it pretty well, but repeatedly going through this cycle can get exhausting.

LuckyJim

[adventurer]

They will keep pushing, in my experience, until they get a reaction out of you, in order to flip roles from victimizer to victim.

I have read so much of BPD behavior and coping strategies, but I have never seen the idea of baiting put into such a clear, concise context.  I never have thought about exactly what is hoped to be achieved by the baiting other than manipulation and control.  Thanks for another lightbulb moment that will help keep me level-headed.

I REFUSE to fall for the trap and I WILL NOT be turned into a victimizer.

[AliveButBeatup]

... .They will keep pushing, in my experience, until they get a reaction out of you, in order to flip roles from victimizer to victim... .

LuckyJim

LuckyJim, I have never seen it said so succinctly but what you said rings very true with me. After our last, and yes, final cycle of a few days ago I have been reflecting how is it that I end up feeling like the villain.  I realize I am not, but sometimes it is hard to get that message to stick inside my head.

AB

[Lucky Jim]

No, ABB, you are not the villain, though I understand that sometimes this concept is easier to grasp intellectually than it is emotionally.

Adventurer, Glad to share my perspective on this pattern and hope it may help you to break the cycle.

I've been goaded into doing things of which I'm not proud, yet the reality is that those w/BPD have a facility for bringing out the worst in us.  I think that, on some subconscious level, they desire for us to behave badly in order to become the victim, which oddly enough brings some sort of relief, in my view.

LuckyJim

[adventurer]

Well, we just hashed out this whole problem for another hour.  I held firm my boundary of needing sleep and not apologizing for it, only telling her I felt bad for hurting her feelings.  She told me she has a complete lack of emotional support and connection with me.  I told her that when she is in her silent treatment phase that those things are impossible for me to give.

It turned into a bit of an argument about various things each of us is 'doing wrong', though I remained calm and told her that I wasn't mad and I respected her feelings, just couldn't deal with certain behaviors.  She ended up screaming at me, slamming the table and having a sobbing emotional breakdown.  That seemed to give her the emotional release she has been seeking for a couple days.  Though she said I wasn't listening to her or her feelings.  I don't think I was validating enough or correctly.

I asked for specifics about how I could improve our emotional connection and she gave some about providing verbal encouragement for the things she is doing.  Also she says she doesn't have enough mental space because she knows I am sitting in the next room judging her for not working and disapproving her wasted time on the computer.  I reminded her that I am not actually looking over her shoulder and that all of that is happening inside her own head.  She then was unhappy that I was discussing these specific things instead of working on the big issue.  I told her I was working on the big issue by addressing the specific things SHE was telling ME needed to improve.  ugh.

I'm not sure how to foster and build an emotional connection with someone with such all over the place feelings.  I will work more on the SET, validation and other workshops here but I just wonder how far I can get with somebody who refuses to do anything for themselves.

In the argument she even told me I should stop going to therapy because it was making me aggressive in my attitude and was giving me bad ideas to manipulate and bully her. 

All this because I set a simple boundary over one night of sleep.

[michel71]

I should challenge you to a dual because you are obviously in a relationship with my wife! You poor man! Lol.

[Splitblack4good]

... .They will keep pushing, in my experience, until they get a reaction out of you, in order to flip roles from victimizer to victim... .

LuckyJim

LuckyJim, I have never seen it said so succinctly but what you said rings very true with me. After our last, and yes, final cycle of a few days ago I have been reflecting how is it that I end up feeling like the villain.  I realize I am not, but sometimes it is hard to get that message to stick inside my head.

AB

my BPD ex girlfriend made me feel exactly the same she tells me that she is scared of me now due to me shouting at her towards the end of our relationship they are convinced that ther behavior doesn't cause us the nons to shout at them it's just another thing to use against us to finish the relationship!

[outside9x]

Hi Sorry,  I happen to hit on this board.  I am on the leaving board, but when I read yours it brought back so many of the same memories.  I remember, rushing over to her house , well really asking her to come to mine when her furnace went out.   She kept on refusing, so at about 10 PM I was ready to go to bed at my house.  At 10:10 she calls me and says she needs me , so I put on my clothes, take out the dog, get clothes for the morning for work, and leave the dog alone (since she wasn't good at her house the last time) I get their, I hug and kiss her.  I go down to the furnace, and discover it's the ignitor, and so, she'll have to call the repair guy the next morning.  I brought a portable heater as well. 

Now she is drinking watching TV, and so now it's 11:30PM.  She wants me to stay and drink with her and watch TV.  I am bushed.  I kiss her on the cheek, and tell her good night and I see her up in bed. 

I guess, I fell asleep but was woken up from her screaming at me at the foot of the bed, tell me how I ignore her completely (Do you believe this?)  and tells me if I am so Fing tired, I should have stayed home.  I said, tired or not, I help those I love, always. She screams a bit more, then Nothing.  Wow!

Pretty similar.  Good Luck.  I loved her, she was gorgeous but after her cheating, and pushing away, I made a decision but it been hard but I can't see how I can live day to day like that,  As is, I was emotionally and physically exhausted, but I didn't have the SET method down, but I can tell, I still would have suffered.