Have you been brainwashed

[Starless]

Thank you so very, very much. That is my biggest fear. When he lies and I calmly call him out on it he would rather leave than admit he lied. I don't think therapy is going to change this. Are you still married? Have you & your spouse tried therapy? PM me if you don't want to talk about it here. Thank you again. *hugs back*

We are still married. We have not tried marriage counseling. My husband is a sex addict and goes to a 12 step program. He has gone to therapy a couple of times but doesn't go regularly. It seems to be a very occasional thing.

We never really considered marriage therapy because we have always been able to talk to some degree. Also, one of the things that I have run into is that my husband will listen and acknowledge what I say and tell me everything he thinks I want to hear. Afterwards, he will not act on or follow through on any of the stuff that we had discussed. I had been noticing and had mentioned that there are so many times when I am talking to him that it seems like the lights were on but nobody was home. In one of his first therapy sessions, the counselor brought that up right away. She told him that she wouldn't be able to help him if he wasn't more present during their sessions.

I am so sorry. I have a feeling things are going to go the same for me. I recently found out my husband cheated on his ex constantly, so I kind of feel like I'm just waiting for the worst to happen. *sigh* He said he would go to therapy; I'm going to see what happens, but I have decided not to hold my breath and to go ahead and grieve because things are likely to end horribly. :'(

[vortex of confusion]

I am so sorry. I have a feeling things are going to go the same for me. I recently found out my husband cheated on his ex constantly, so I kind of feel like I'm just waiting for the worst to happen. *sigh* He said he would go to therapy; I'm going to see what happens, but I have decided not to hold my breath and to go ahead and grieve because things are likely to end horribly. :'(

Don't let things go the same way! You have access to tools and resources through this website that I did not have. Read as much as you can and work through some of the lessons that you can find on the right hand side of the different fora. The key is to NOT let yourself get brainwashed. I feel like part of the reason that I let him get into my head was because he kept making promises to do this or that but wouldn't follow through. He is very much a waif and seems pretty helpless a lot of the time. So, I would step in and rescue him or give him more time because he would get so hurt and sad and would seem so sincere that I would usually back down and buy whatever it was he was trying to sell me.

[SlyQQ]

posted this elsewhere but seems relavent going to therapy can be used to fob u off so set goals hope this helps

Firstly what people say an what they do can be COMPLETELY different you an he need to judge by actions not words otherwise you just end up enabling the behaviour he will have yodancing so many circles you wont know where you are Secondly they dont recover you basically have to convince them there current course of action is DETRIMENTAL to THEM an they have to change it this is the main battle. Thirdly one of the main avenues here is shame ( NOT guilt ) they understand this because hiding there actions ( shame ) is what enables them to continue there current actions if people realize what they are doing they realize to a large extent they wont be able to continue doing so hence the hiding / shame hope this helps 

[Starless]

I am so sorry. I have a feeling things are going to go the same for me. I recently found out my husband cheated on his ex constantly, so I kind of feel like I'm just waiting for the worst to happen. *sigh* He said he would go to therapy; I'm going to see what happens, but I have decided not to hold my breath and to go ahead and grieve because things are likely to end horribly. :'(

Don't let things go the same way! You have access to tools and resources through this website that I did not have. Read as much as you can and work through some of the lessons that you can find on the right hand side of the different fora. The key is to NOT let yourself get brainwashed. I feel like part of the reason that I let him get into my head was because he kept making promises to do this or that but wouldn't follow through. He is very much a waif and seems pretty helpless a lot of the time. So, I would step in and rescue him or give him more time because he would get so hurt and sad and would seem so sincere that I would usually back down and buy whatever it was he was trying to sell me.

You're right, Vortex. Thank you. I had a talk with him tonight and he wants to go to therapy, and I am going as well. It's weird because I've been co-dependent as far as drugs go in the past (Been off drugs for over 5 years) but this is the first time in my life I have ever been co-dependent in a relationship. I am usually distant and the one who is causing all the problems, so yeah, I need to get my own head in check, too. Thank you for talking to me. I'll see you around and I hope you can find peace and happiness in your life. *Big Hugs*

[downwhim]

I cannot believe how all of you explained my life. Yes it feels great to be validated and really see through others how I lived. The last two months of our 8 years together were hell. He wanted to go to Cabo but I reminded him that last time we went he woke me up from a solid sleep at 4 am to rage at me so bad (I mean screaming and yelling with his veins popping out) that I packed up, left the room and sat in the lobby until sunrise. I did not even talk to him for months after that. He scared me so badly that I thought this time it would turn physical. I was surprised the hotel guests did not call on him as he was so loud. He was complaining because the drink I ordered was too expensive at dinner.

This time when we broke up, he devalued me, discounted all I said, withdrew sex and intimacy, raged, cheated (yet lied about that too) and tried hard to get me to break up with him. He would say, "oh, your needs aren't getting met, well maybe this relationship isn't for you." Bd's don't admit fault, they are always right and take no responsibility for any wrong doing. I felt beat up physically and emotionally by the time it was over... .Having to explain to friends and family MYSELF while he was out DATING that our engagement was off was humiliating. Yes, he hurt me to the core. It is my issue that I wonder today what he is doing and miss him. Sounds sick and co dependent and it is just that... .lots of work to be done to get better... .

[Mutt]

posted this elsewhere but seems relavent going to therapy can be used to fob u off

so set goals hope this helps

Firstly what people say an what they do can be COMPLETELY different you an he

need to judge by actions not words otherwise you just end up enabling the behaviour

he will have yodancing so many circles you wont know where you are

Secondly they dont recover you basically have to convince them there current course

of action is DETRIMENTAL to THEM an they have to change it this is the main battle.

Thirdly one of the main avenues here is shame ( NOT guilt ) they understand this

because hiding there actions ( shame ) is what enables them to continue there

current actions if people realize what they are doing they realize to a large extent

they wont be able to continue doing so hence the hiding / shame hope this helps

Hi Slyqq,

Yes.

A person with borderline personality disorder (pwBPD) have much shame and guilt. What drives much of the actions with a pwBPD is their core wound of abandonments, a narcissistic wound, abandonment and abandonment fears. This pain is very difficult for a pwBPD to cope with.

BPD is a spectrum disorder and that means that not two people are the same. The same can be said with non-disorded people. Some are self aware and some are less self aware. Everyone's self awareness is different.

That being said. A pwBPD has different self-awareness and some are less aware that they are mentally ill. Up to 60% of people diagnosed with a mental illness believe that they are not mentally ill.

I don't believe that they intentionally hide their maladaptive coping skills and I do believe that many may not be aware. BPD is a part of their personality. Think about that. Your personality is a part of you and it can be very difficult to change. There are many defense mechanisms that protect the ego with BPD. It's an emotional based disorder and communication clearly and articulating feelings is very difficult.

Their reality is just as real to them as your reality is to you. For someone to try and convince you that your reality isn't real is a challenging task?

I don't believe that you cam convince someone if they're not self aware that there's something different about them inside. They may know there's something different and they could be in self denial.

An option for the non-mentally ill is radical acceptance. Radically accept a lived one for the person that they are and not for how you wish them to be or want to change them. It's accepting reality for what it is, instead of going against the acceptance of reality where it causes much stress, anxiety and frustration.

What does radical acceptance look like for you?

[SlyQQ]

There is something i woiuld like to say that while on the surface is obvious but nevertheless took me a while an quite a journey to understand. The posts i have read an in general you will find are of the nature 1 How could they cheat on me, the awnser is how could they not it is almost impossible for someone who is BPD to NOT cheat on you furthermore they will blame YOU for it regardless of the circumstances any remorse or regret will be purely a show this is BPD an if you wish to maintain a relationship is something you need to understand it is possible overtime for a BPD individual to LEARN otherwise but it is unnatural for them once you grasp that they are not like you or ' normal " people and that you are in general placing unrealistic expectations upon them life becomes simpler 2 How could they be so cruel /selfish/uncaring Again people with BPD do not trust anyone ( not down deep and certainly not LONG term ) they are waiting/ scared of being crossed by you and in general adopt a strategy of do unto others before they do unto you it is a NATURAL defense mechanism to protect themselves again regardless of how baseless this may be in fact , fact has little relavence when dealing with numerous mental conditions 3 They seemed so genuine they tricked me ... .people with BPD are experts at tricking people not least of all THEMSELVES it is hard not to believe someone ho has convinced themselves on some level what they are saying is basically true

bottom line BPD is dangerous especially when you do not know what you are dealing with if you do KNOW then you should know what to expect so go forward with your eyes open and dont be suprised if you get burnt or even incinerated but realistically it is not the fault of the BPD individual it is going to come down to you either dealing with the failures you will face and the long hard winding road to a perhaps unlikely succes posted this reply elsewhere look up gaslighting it is a sought of double think it may help explain this is something i posted a while ago is this what you mean?

[Mutt]

Hi SlyQQ,

You raise valid points and I'm happy your asking these questions   I can see the difficulties with applying radical acceptance. Radical acceptance is a tool and a choice.

1  How could they cheat on me, the awnser is how could they not it is almost impossible for someone who is BPD to NOT cheat on you furthermore they will blame YOU for it regardless of the circumstances any remorse or regret will be purely a show this is BPD an if you wish to maintain a relationship is something you need to understand it is possible overtime for a BPD individual to LEARN otherwise but it is unnatural for them once you grasp that they are not like you or ' normal " people and that you are in general placing unrealistic expectations upon them life becomes simpler

I can relate SlyQQ. Being cheated on is difficult and painful. I'm sorry. It takes time to work through these difficult experiences and make sense of who's responsible.

I can also relate with being blamed for everything and it's painful and confusing when someone else's actions are attributed to us.

Let's take being blamed for cheating as an example. A defense mechanism that many people with BPD use is "projection"

It's a defense mechanism. Non-disorders people project as well and pwBPD take this to the extreme.

You mention shame and guilt and you would likely feel shame and guilt? Projection is like a game of tag your it! It is taking one's own insecurities and negative actions and feelings and attributing it to someone else. A protective self defense mechanism for the ego. In this case attaching said actions to you ( blame ) and it triggers emotions. It's hard to be blamed for someone's actions when you know your reality is different right?

2 How  could they be so cruel /selfish/uncaring Again people with BPD do not trust anyone ( not down deep and certainly not LONG term ) they are waiting/ scared of being crossed by you and in general adopt a strategy of do unto others before they do unto you it is a NATURAL defense mechanism to protect themselves

again regardless of how baseless this may be in fact , fact has little relavence when dealing with numerous

mental conditions

It's hurtful and painful when a loved one shows little to no empathy towards their partners. It's incredibly hard. I'm sorry.

I also think another facet is that a pwBPD have difficulties loving themselves. They feel low self-worth,  are insecure and have difficulties trusting themselves Very painful experiences SlyQQ. Trust is important and I think a way to bridge that gap is by understanding the disorder and the motivations why the mentally ill behave the way that they do.

3 They seemed so genuine they tricked me ... .people with BPD are experts at tricking people not least of all THEMSELVES it is hard not to believe someone ho has convinced themselves on some level what they are saying is basically true

I'm sorry that you were tricked. I can relate. I'm not sure that they are completely convinced with their behaviors. I think some of it goes back to self-awareness? From my personal experience and the person in my life with BPD traits there were rare glimpses at the time that I could see her pain. Being indifferent and emotionally detached now I see and understand. That being said I was hurt, frustrated, fed up with her.

I understand that she has pain ( not her trauma or what caused her trauma,  I have speculations and she would have to explore this in therapy ) and the disorder is emotionally arrested development, maladaptive coping mechanisms.

I'm sorry no. I'm not referring to gaslighting.

Can you explain what you mean by dangerous? Was there something that happened to you?

You have many difficult things you are dealing with SlyQQ. Cheated, trust, emotional blackmail, blamed and lied to. I'm sorry this happened to you.

How do you feel?

[SlyQQ]

I have dealt with all that an it is of no great concern as my post tried to underline BPD however does kill people lots of people an probably a lot more non BPDs than BPDs radical acceptence is great but a lot of people die out there before getting anywhere near there

[Mutt]

Radical acceptance is a coping tool for pain and trauma that's happened in peoples lives. It is an option.

Yes, there's suicide with BPD. Some and not all.

[downwhim]

All of this is very helpful. Brainwashed. I think yes, intentional or not it is hard to be manipulated and made a fool of. When you keep trying to figure this out and your in the middle of it it is crazy making. No one understands unless you have been through it. Glad I am here.