One look, one word from my h and the self-doubt rolls in

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

It amazes me.

Yes, I've had 38 years of being conditioned to my uBPDh's expressions and moods and body language etc. I know that plays into it.

Yesterday at our family Thanksgiving meal at our oldest daughter's house both of us were there, my h and me, though I left home in February. I figured I can be a Big Girl and play nice no matter what, and my T helped me have a goal and a plan. So I was set. I did great all the way till I was at the door to leave.

I've been trying to not engage in chit chat with my h because it sends him the wrong message, and after seeing him for coffee last week to tell him how I feel, I want to chit chat even less, it was a pretty awful experience.

So I am at the door, heading out. For some reason he feels the need to come stand at the door for goodbyes with this sad look on his face. I hug my daughter, hug my grandson, wave goodbye and say "bye" to my h and leave.

Later I get a one word text from him: "Ouch."

WHAT THE FREAK IS THAT ABOUT?

So today I started doubting myself again. Questioning. "Am I doing the right thing?" All the old FearObligationGuilt rolls in. And I've worked so hard to get clear of that stuff!

So I pick up my phone and say "Siri, describe abuse." She finds me some articles online, one in particular on Emotional Abuse. I look through the check-list and find pretty much my marriage on there... .

So what is that? Is it my conditioning, like Pavlov's dog he gives me a look and sends his little text and my chest gets tight and I get guilty?

And that "Ouch." Is that some sort of manipulation? And should it be fair for someone to use one perfectly good word for evil?

GAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

[Elpis]

It amazes me.

Yes, I've had 38 years of being conditioned to my uBPDh's expressions and moods and body language etc. I know that plays into it.

Yesterday at our family Thanksgiving meal at our oldest daughter's house both of us were there, my h and me, though I left home in February. I figured I can be a Big Girl and play nice no matter what, and my T helped me have a goal and a plan. So I was set. I did great all the way till I was at the door to leave.

I've been trying to not engage in chit chat with my h because it sends him the wrong message, and after seeing him for coffee last week to tell him how I feel, I want to chit chat even less, it was a pretty awful experience.

So I am at the door, heading out. For some reason he feels the need to come stand at the door for goodbyes with this sad look on his face. I hug my daughter, hug my grandson, wave goodbye and say "bye" to my h and leave.

Later I get a one word text from him: "Ouch."

WHAT THE FREAK IS THAT ABOUT?

So today I started doubting myself again. Questioning. "Am I doing the right thing?" All the old FearObligationGuilt rolls in. And I've worked so hard to get clear of that stuff!

So I pick up my phone and say "Siri, describe abuse." She finds me some articles online, one in particular on Emotional Abuse. I look through the check-list and find pretty much my marriage on there... .

So what is that? Is it my conditioning, like Pavlov's dog he gives me a look and sends his little text and my chest gets tight and I get guilty?

And that "Ouch." Is that some sort of manipulation? And should it be fair for someone to use one perfectly good word for evil?

GAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

[Mutt]

So I am at the door, heading out. For some reason he feels the need to come stand at the door for goodbyes with this sad look on his face. I hug my daughter, hug my grandson, wave goodbye and say "bye" to my h and leave.

Later I get a one word text from him: "Ouch."

WHAT THE FREAK IS THAT ABOUT?

Guilt from FOG. BPD waifishness.

He knows what buttons to push 

The reality is he's not giving you much wiggle room in 38 years and opportunities to own his behaviors and get help. His choice and your choice to say enough 's enough. It takes time to identify and work through triggers in detachment. Keep patience.

[Pingo]

Oh that old FOG, it is an SOB isn't it?  I know it well.  Like Mutt says, it takes time.  After 38 yrs I'll assume he does know how to push every one of your buttons! He triggered you but in time that will lessen.  I think it was amazing that you were able to share a meal with him in the room, I couldn't do it without an anxiety attack, I'm sure!  Give yourself credit for that, it must have been very difficult! 

[billypilgrim]

38 years is a long time.  I'm very sorry for all that you keep having to go through.  You are doing all the right things.  It is awful the hold that they still have on us. But trust that you are absolutely doing the right thing.  If you have to remind yourself what abuse is after one word from him, then you are absolutely doing the right thing.  I'm sorry it hurts so badly.

[Elpis]

Thank you all soo much. It is hard to stay clear in my brain.

I keep trying to remind myself to pay attention to my body's responses to things--when someone who is kind and affirming says something I have a pleasant and calm sensation. But when he says or does his little button pushing my chest feels tight and I get anxious and want to RUUUUUNNNNNN!

Later in the day it was so clear to me, "Oh! that was manipulation!" One of my friends said "what did he THINK you were going to do, give him a big hug and a kiss?" I guess he did!

Mutt,

As always, you have my back. Thank you for that. I hear such calm in your words so I know they're good! That Guilt is a hard one to get free of. I think it's key what you said, it takes time to work through triggers, and apparently I am made up entirely of triggers with him! I picture myself with all these buttons all over me with targets painted on them. Triggerfest! And he has studied them all. I need to look up the waif thing I think.

Patience! Right! I have a hard time remembering patience. We're only acquaintances you see, not close friends.

Pingo,

THAT FOG SUCKS! I thought it was amazing I could do that too, honestly. If we have a holiday meal there again i'm gonna tell my daughter to please not make us all sit at the table together. (and I took something for anxiety. )

It's hard because I see my grown children getting anxious if they think we won't both be there, but dang it's weird to be there! Mostly I just tried to not be where he was, but sitting at a table together in a small room was daunting. Fortunately my grandgirls (14 and 17) were hiding in their bedroom so I went in there and chatted part of the time. I so enjoy them!

But yes, I feel like I should get an award of some sort for having done the first thanksgiving since I left and surviving! Maybe a trophy with a woman on the top wiping the sweat from her forehead as she sighs in happiness that SHE DID IT! Those could be the words on the trophy, "For Elpis because SHE DID IT!"

billypilgrim,

Indeed that is a loong time! I am seriously going to get a turtle tattoo (my first tattoo ever in 61 years!) when this is over to signify that I am the slowest learner in the universe.

Thanks so much for the affirmation that i'm doing what I need to do. It does hurt, but it's a temporary hurt, right? I mean, we're moving on through to the other side where we'll say "what was that I used to be so worked up about?"

Again, thank you all!

[Pingo]

Indeed that is a loong time! I am seriously going to get a turtle tattoo (my first tattoo ever in 61 years!) when this is over to signify that I am the slowest learner in the universe.

Well, if so, it should be a turtle with a badge of honour for bravery!  As both my T's have pointed out, many people never leave these r/ss.  You have shown bravery in wanting more for your life!

When I separated with my first husband, the first Christmas we were apart I invited him and his Dad over for opening presents and breakfast.  It was so difficult I swore I'd never do that again.  Yes, my son would love it if we could do it but it just isn't possible and stay mentally balanced. And this was with a man who is a NON BPD!  After 6 years apart we have worked out our schedules with our son so that he gets to spend holidays with both of us, just not together.  I know it is hard on your kids to have things change but give it time, things will settle into a new 'normal'. 

[Elpis]

Thank you Pingo, that's what my therapist says too, they'll adjust.

I feel like I should be able to be in the same space with him for the sake of my grandkids, it just may be too soon.

I LOVE the idea of the turtle with the badge of honor! hahahaha! That's perfect. 

[billypilgrim]

It does hurt, but it's a temporary hurt, right? I mean, we're moving on through to the other side where we'll say "what was that I used to be so worked up about?"

Yes, it's temporary.  A lot of days it doesn't feel that way but things do get easier.  I'll race you there ;-)

[Elpis]

billypilgrim,

if we're racing, don't forget i'm a turtle! "slow and steady wins the race"... .

[Rifka]

I totally understand what your saying! That is why I didn't look at his eyes when I asked him to never come near my home, call me,text me or have any contact with me when I ended it!

I would doubt myself and start a new recycle.

Out of the fog and his presence things are crystal clear that his abuse and my accepting it had to end. I did the right thing for me.

You should be so proud of yourself for your thanksgiving event. Many of us could only image and cringe at the thought of having to put ourselves through that.

Maybe in the future I could handle it, but for now it's too fresh! Plus we have no children together. Next year his son will graduate high school and we will be in the same place ( his ex wife and son want me there) , but for now no!

You are very strong! Hugs and cheers for you!

Rifka

[Mutt]

Mutt,

As always, you have my back. Thank you for that. I hear such calm in your words so I know they're good! That Guilt is a hard one to get free of. I think it's key what you said, it takes time to work through triggers, and apparently I am made up entirely of triggers with him! I picture myself with all these buttons all over me with targets painted on them. Triggerfest! And he has studied them all. I need to look up the waif thing I think.

Patience! Right! I have a hard time remembering patience. We're only acquaintances you see, not close friends.

Your welcome and I apologize for my ambiguity.

Keep patience with yourself   I agree there are a lot of triggers.

Step back and look at the bigger picture. Divorce is a major life event and only second to the death of a loved one. Divorce is incredibly hard. That said, your in divorce proceedings. Divorcing a person with a personality disorder is the major leagues.

To add to this your family and H are triangulating you by choosing to pick sides with H and making you look like you have no sympathy, or empathy for their dad, FIL. There are TWO sides to every story and they're not listening and validating yours. FAR from the truth.

You're a person that displays an incredible wealth of compassion and empathy for the needs of others and I think H and your family are isolating you? I'm not saying that they don't care. What I'm saying is they're not showing you much empathy. Think about this, you invested 40 years to make this work. I'd show a little more support and I would want you to be happy. Now who's feelings are they tending to? Theirs, yours? Are there insecurities and negative feelings about mom and dad divorcing overwhelming their capacity to display understanding?

YOU HAVE A RIGHT to be happy. This is what I see and perhaps I'm not registering everything.

I think you need some TLC and I hope that you find time during this very stressful period to give it to yourself.

[Elpis]

Thank you Rifka for your kind words. i'm glad you don't have to deal with being near him for some time yet!

Mutt, I knew you meant to be patient with me, i'm just not huge with patience especially for myself... .that's what I meant by the acquaintance/friend thing, I don't know "patience" very well.

And we're not even in divorce proceedings yet--so I know there's more fun to come.   And fortunately only part of our family is taking his side, the others see me regularly (being in the same country) so I don't think it's as hard for them to come back around to the truth rather than whatever version of "truth" their dad tells them. I just have to keep the lines of communication open.

Today my uBPDh's paycheck went into our joint account, and it being nearly the first of the month I transferred enough into my account to pay my very low rent, utilities and have some for food (and perhaps the occasional pumpkin latte.) I had told him last month this was how much I would need at the first of the month. I had just gotten home and was eating dinner when he started calling and calling and calling--no joke, NINE TIMES in a row! I prefer to deal with him by text, and if it was important he would leave me a message. I have the song "Let it Go" from the movie Frozen as his ring tone, so when I hear it I can prepare to "Let it Go." So he finally texts "I get that you are done, but you have to talk to me at least about money. How can I plan if I don't know what you're going to do with the money?" Not that he asked me before he spent probably 500 on his iPhone 6 plus... .So I texted back, "i told you last month it would be this amount each first of the month. But okay I will text you."

I hate that i'm left rattled when he does this stuff trying to provoke a response, even though I can walk myself through it telling myself "if it was about one of the kids or grandkids or dogs he would leave a message or text if that's what it was so I would pick up." He still gets to me, especially when he's so relentless.

At least he's getting the idea about me being done. I need to build strength for the days ahead when I am forced to choose to take legal action so I am not left at his mercy financially.

I can only imagine all this with a disordered person will be a crazy time... .I do try to be kind to myself, but it's easier when I have a few dollars to go get a massage or whatever, the stress comes with his penny-pinching with me. And of course he still tries to play on my feelings of compassion--not that he's had any for me. One time in the whole past 9 months (and it was right after he started with his counselor so she probably brought it up) has he asked how my fibromyalgia is, a chronic pain and fatigue illness I deal with. It's so all about him. It's just sad.

I'm glad I had my time today with the pet rescue organization I volunteer for, cats, dogs, and friendly people for 5 hours is such a positive thing! I'm always exhausted, but it's a lovely thing to know I have each week. It's a self-care thing. 

[Mutt]

Would you quantify this as financial abuse? He's telegraphing control. My advice Elpis and I did this. Mean in these boards for support with the difficulties through divorce and a PD.

The calling 9 times. He's triggered. He knows. My advice. It may be time to go no contact. You're at the threshold  I'm sorry. Radio silence to give yourself space to heal and disengage from what's going to come next. You may see a side of him you've never seen before if his abandonment fears are really triggered. I'm saying this because I've been there. I think you know what you want. It may be time to let him go and ignore everything he sends your way. Your L can take care of the legal matters.

Don't feel guilt for taking what's yours.

[Elpis]

Yup, now I just need to come up with a ginormous retainer for the lawyer I like!

There does seem to be a shift in the "force" now that he's seen me be so much less reactive. He can no longer draw me in like he did since I've had the space away from him over these past 9 months. He seems to be getting more frantic. He couldn't guilt me into doing what he wanted me to do the past few times he's tried. 

I did read up on the NC issue, and it was quite informative. The concept being less about contact and more about our attitude, which is why I don't want to engage in chit-chat with him, I need to become more and more detached in my dealings and feelings so I can do what's necessary. That's what i'm working on, the not engaging.

After Christmas, that's when i'll move forward. Just wanna make it through the holiday season with the family this year since next year will have plenty of changes to come.

Someone else like you is probably a better judge of whether or not he's being financially abusive, my radar is so terribly off after all these decades... .

[Mutt]

Your taking money out for necessities and he's guilting you for it and controlling. No contact is to get out of the FOG, the chit chat keeps you in that FOG if your not detached. It's surprising how I clearly see all of the abusive nuances in communiques and she's emotionally arrested and doesn't know I know better now. I'm indifferent and it doesn't trigger or warrant an emotional response. It's stress free whereas it's not for you right now. Your exhausted and the WoE about money Elpis, you don't need it right now?

Many members here will say one of two things. I'm in this camp. When they leave your split black and you don't hear from them until they need something. The other camp is when you leave them and they don't have an attachment. The pwBPD will continue to work on your feelings and try to convince you to come back. I didn't know it at the time when I got here and members said I was lucky I was split black. Just be aware. The camp your in, I feel sympathy for. Vent on these boards.

[Elpis]

I feel like his calling nine times in a row without leaving a message is harassment! That's ridiculous. He didn't get the response he wanted so he got ugly. I finally listened to the message he finally did leave and it just drips with that whole condescension thing he's so good at. To me that's abusive in its own right, that whole scenario.

And the message was that he knew I would need money out but I did not tell him and so how is he supposed to plan? After all it was only what I would want in the same situation. This is laughable (if he wasn't so scary) because all the years I was doing the bills I could never count on him to tell me what he was doing, and I could never get him to help with a budget (he would throw a tantrum) and he'd decide he "deserved" a new tv or sound system, etc. It's the whole thing of when we had coffee and he's talking about how hard finances are and then lays his Brand New iPhone 6 plus on the table... .

I definitely cannot chit chat, it keeps me hooked into "the Familiar."

Hmmm, I do not like the sound of the 2 camps, especially given the one my tent appears to be pitched in. I wonder if I should rent a space and try to move anything I value from the house? I don't have the space where i'm living, shoved into the back room of my friend's place. It would be weird if he changed the locks, but I wouldn't put it past him.

*sigh*

[Mutt]

It telegraphs selfishness if he's interested in sound systems and he's got a brand new iPhone 6. Look at actions. Not words. I'm sorry with how he treated you this week.

9 calls worries me. Do you know what an extinction burst is?

[Pingo]

Hmmm, I do not like the sound of the 2 camps, especially given the one my tent appears to be pitched in. I wonder if I should rent a space and try to move anything I value from the house? I don't have the space where i'm living, shoved into the back room of my friend's place. It would be weird if he changed the locks, but I wouldn't put it past him.

*sigh*

Prepare for the worst.  It's the best way to protect yourself.  I absolutely think you should move anything of value, at least that's my experience.  The person you marry is not the person you divorce!  You may not have seen the worst of him yet!

[Elpis]

Oh Pingo, that's what i'm afraid of, and what I've been warned about! I do wonder if the fact that we have 4 grown kids and he likes it that I come take care of the dogs sometimes would keep him from doing anything too rash, but it's still a worry.

Mutt, yep, I've read about that. I thought we were going through one for some time before I left, but it seems to be ramping back up again... .but this time I am being so much more firm, does that mean there's any chance of the burst getting over with?

[Mutt]

When you stop re-enforcing behaviors and you start to not give into whims and needs. The behavior escalates.

I think his calls were an EB. He's frantically calling you. You had kids. When the kids are babies ( I'm not sure if you used soothers ) and you take away the soother. The baby or child starts to frantically escalate the cries. I'm not sure about you but with D8 it was nerve wracking for me. I think ( could be wrong ) it lasted a period of a week or so. The nights got worse as the week went along until one night she reached a peak ( Extinction Burst ) The following night she went to bed calmly and quickly.

Don't re-enforce his behavior. So if you don't pick up expect an extinction burst at some point. If he rings you 20 times and you pick up on ring 21, he knows it takes 21 rings for you to pick up. He'll keep calling until he gets through. That's what I mean by "re-enforcing" the behavior. If you don't pick up he's going to head into an EB.

My ex had several EB's and it was scary. I've heard that with some members it was an EB of epic proportion.

I agree with Pingo and I cannot stress this enough when the fear of abandonnent, the core of his disorder is in a final trigger because he thinks your really leaving. The man you divorce. Is an entirely different person when it's BPD. We're giving you a heads up 'cause we've been there. My wife for the last 2 years is not the same woman i knew the previous 7 the day she left she has nothing but vitriol for me. Get your things out ASAP. There's no fooling around with the mentally ill and divorce.

Elpis it's not all doom and gloom. It gets better as you detach and learn to cope.

[Elpis]

Does it really? (she said sighing heavily.)

The soother is a good example, though I always had a terrible time listening to my kids cry when I was trying to get them to go to sleep on their own... .I think I was born an enabler! Can't stand people being upset! Though i'm learning and doing better at letting people feel their feelings.

I wonder if it's a crazy thought, but I've wondered about doing a legal separation. I just don't know if that would be worse.

He has started saying "I know that you're done" before he goes into whatever the request for compliance is.

Even though his texts and emails are just as bad content-wise as talking to him in person, the text allows me to *pause* and consider my answer more easily, so I prefer that to a phone call. And I figured that if someone doesn't pick up you should leave a message, so the 9 calls WAS the message: "dammit you're not doing what I want! I will make things hard for you!" Such a charmer. Now why was I thinking of a legal separation again?