Attachment

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I've had one relationship since the BPD episode. It lasted about six months and we didn't argue at all. Not one fight. She threatened the relationship. When she did that I ended it.

If I had brought attachment into that relationship I would have been more likely to stay after the relationship was threatened. I was in a relationship without attachment.

You never fought and you didn't have an attachment.  That's why she threatened the relationship: she was screaming for an attachment and you were scared because of your borderline experience, so that was a last ditch effort on her part for you to come to her emotionally and you didn't.  Women feel much more than they think, so it's important to hear what she's really saying, not the words.

Heel can I ask you what you would do if your partner told you point blank that they wanted you to leave? Would you stay? How many times would you need to hear that before you left?

Again, I'd listen for what she's really saying, not the words.  A woman will never leave you if you meet her emotional needs, but first we need to tune into what she's really saying, or more accurately feeling.  Unless of course she's one of those fcked up borderlines, in which case what she's feeling changes on the fly, and trying to decipher that will earn you a straightjacket.  Most women aren't like that.

I approached that relationship with the idea that two people can always bring each other up, and never bring each other down. We have minds. We can use our minds to find solutions even if the solution has to be agree to disagree. No fighting. I don't even like to play fight let alone real fight.

That's a very masculine way of looking at it, appropriate since you're a man, but that won't work for women, at least not feminine ones.  The heart always trumps the mind in the world of the feminine, and it's really not hard to know what a woman is feeling once you know her a little, and then we as men need to decide if we are capable and want to make her happy or not, and if not, better bail, or pain will ensue.  But if we think we can make her happy then we need to jump in with both feet; we'll never have her if we don't, but if we fully commit she will light up like Christmas meets the 4th of July.

I hope that I do find a relationship that has its foundation in love, peace and harmony. This is at our core. When we become self aware and act from a position of true self, that is what we bring with us into a relationship. Love, peace, and harmony. When two people have this, then and only then, can it be true love. Two people that love themselves, together. In love, together.

That sounds good!  And we'll never act from our true self if we aren't all-in emotionally, which includes letting go and trusting, hard to do when we've gotten burned by mental illness.  Time to take the lessons, learn, get centered, and jump, but only in the right direction.  Let me ask you: is it easier to tell the difference between centered, sane women and fcking whackjobs now?  For me it's no question, and I thank my borderline ex for that; I have a heightened sensitivity for what's really going on, and I'm in a whackjob free zone, plan to stay that way.  Take care of you!

[fromheeltoheal]

I've had one relationship since the BPD episode. It lasted about six months and we didn't argue at all. Not one fight. She threatened the relationship. When she did that I ended it.

If I had brought attachment into that relationship I would have been more likely to stay after the relationship was threatened. I was in a relationship without attachment.

You never fought and you didn't have an attachment.  That's why she threatened the relationship: she was screaming for an attachment and you were scared because of your borderline experience, so that was a last ditch effort on her part for you to come to her emotionally and you didn't.  Women feel much more than they think, so it's important to hear what she's really saying, not the words.

Heel can I ask you what you would do if your partner told you point blank that they wanted you to leave? Would you stay? How many times would you need to hear that before you left?

Again, I'd listen for what she's really saying, not the words.  A woman will never leave you if you meet her emotional needs, but first we need to tune into what she's really saying, or more accurately feeling.  Unless of course she's one of those fcked up borderlines, in which case what she's feeling changes on the fly, and trying to decipher that will earn you a straightjacket.  Most women aren't like that.

I approached that relationship with the idea that two people can always bring each other up, and never bring each other down. We have minds. We can use our minds to find solutions even if the solution has to be agree to disagree. No fighting. I don't even like to play fight let alone real fight.

That's a very masculine way of looking at it, appropriate since you're a man, but that won't work for women, at least not feminine ones.  The heart always trumps the mind in the world of the feminine, and it's really not hard to know what a woman is feeling once you know her a little, and then we as men need to decide if we are capable and want to make her happy or not, and if not, better bail, or pain will ensue.  But if we think we can make her happy then we need to jump in with both feet; we'll never have her if we don't, but if we fully commit she will light up like Christmas meets the 4th of July.

I hope that I do find a relationship that has its foundation in love, peace and harmony. This is at our core. When we become self aware and act from a position of true self, that is what we bring with us into a relationship. Love, peace, and harmony. When two people have this, then and only then, can it be true love. Two people that love themselves, together. In love, together.

That sounds good!  And we'll never act from our true self if we aren't all-in emotionally, which includes letting go and trusting, hard to do when we've gotten burned by mental illness.  Time to take the lessons, learn, get centered, and jump, but only in the right direction.  Let me ask you: is it easier to tell the difference between centered, sane women and fcking whackjobs now?  For me it's no question, and I thank my borderline ex for that; I have a heightened sensitivity for what's really going on, and I'm in a whackjob free zone, plan to stay that way.  Take care of you!

[Perfidy]

They can suffer In their own hell. It's not mine.

[Perfidy]

Heel, you are a wise man.

[Blimblam]

You see this is where I feel eastern and western ideas of ego and attachment sort of get confusing and conflict with each other.  The eastern attachment philosophies are great to adopt of you decide to become a monk or are getting ready to die.  Aspects of them are healthy to adopt but come into conflict when actually forming a relationship with the opposite sex. 

In the western sense of attachment and to have a succesful relationship I feel that understanding how energy transfers between psyches is key.  I feel a good place to start is to understand ones own psychic energy flow and their are numerous models to consider that intertwine.  I think identifying ones Meyers Briggs types and then understaning the functions such as Ni Ne Si Se Ti Te Fi Fe and how they combine and what that means is a good starting model to understand the dynamic of an individual or group of individuals. When ever two people actually attach they will in various ways merge psyches and personally I find understaning these dynamics useful rather than a list of rules. There are always more layers though and I fully endorse seeking them out and understanding them.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, humans have dissected and documented the human personality in many a model, valuable in their own right, although looking in a woman's eyes and feeling the vibe tells me everything I need to know.  There was a spark in my ex's with a deadness behind it, and silly me I ran with the spark and ignored the deadness.  Note to self: ignoring those things will result in pain, don't do that anymore.

[Blimblam]

Yes, humans have dissected and documented the human personality in many a model, valuable in their own right, although looking in a woman's eyes and feeling the vibe tells me everything I need to know.  There was a spark in my ex's with a deadness behind it, and silly me I ran with the spark and ignored the deadness.  Note to self: ignoring those things will result in pain, don't do that anymore.

Yes, but we become ensnared by our own projections and how relate to that part of ourself.  When we look into the eyes Of the other we see ourself. This is why love is blinding.  Also why it is important to take note of the persons actions something I think many of us overlooked. For this very reason I find the subject of counter transference and projective identification facinating. It really starts to dig into how we can be fooled in those interactions because we are triggered internally and when it is our love and nurturing that is triggered logic kind of tends to fly out the window.  In my exs eyes I saw the most giving nurturing love authentic and pure. At other times I saw this sort of longing fear and doubt like a lost child.

Carl jungs anima and feminine archetype info is really good.  The eye the original eye that we see that triggers us innitially is our mothers eyes and we project onto her.  This is explored in depth by the British psychoanalyst Melanie klien. On the other hand Donald winnicot explored this dynamic in depth from the mothers perspective.  The mother child dynamic where the external world is the shadow.  I am seeing the mother with child archetype everywhere, tis the season.

[fromheeltoheal]

I too find the deep psychological stuff fascinating Blim, although I also find it doesn't serve me much in relationship with people; I'm much more kinesthetic, and love and connection are feelings, not thoughts.  The main lesson I learned from my relationship with a borderline is don't ignore those feelings, that will only result in pain, and this pain topped all others, so hopefully I learned the lesson well.  My gut feel was screaming at me the entire time and I ignored it, it was right as usual, and it's trustworthy and all I need.  Another note to self: when I get triggered by interaction with someone attractive my gut feel is still available to me, and ignoring it is seriously not a good idea, don't do that.

[Blimblam]

I too find the deep psychological stuff fascinating Blim, although I also find it doesn't serve me much in relationship with people; I'm much more kinesthetic, and love and connection are feelings, not thoughts.  The main lesson I learned from my relationship with a borderline is don't ignore those feelings, that will only result in pain, and this pain topped all others, so hopefully I learned the lesson well.  My gut feel was screaming at me the entire time and I ignored it, it was right as usual, and it's trustworthy and all I need.  Another note to self: when I get triggered by interaction with someone attractive my gut feel is still available to me, and ignoring it is seriously not a good idea, don't do that.

Lol yeah don't do that. When I study psychology I often relate it back to my direct experiences. It always ties into elaborations on universal archetypes and my experiences with them. I've been mapping out how inner psychic energies interact with themselves through individuals in the material plane and psychology has been really helpfull in this. But I sort of take concepts from anywhere whether it be tribal nomadic cultures ancient, ancient myths to concepts from contemporary religions. Even just random words and symbols, just wherever it comes from really.

[Blimblam]

Some really good information on attachment in the object relations school of psychoanalytic thought. 

Here's a link to a talk about projective identification. Which discusses very interesting concepts on attachment and splitting.

www.youtu.be/4ni3werttmI

And here is a link that has on the page a discussion about projective identification in an audio file. On the page they give a description of projector identification but it is a very limited one.


www.melanie-klein-trust.org.uk.surface3.vm.bytemark.co.uk/melanie-kleins-publications

And here is a link to the gnostic Scholler Stephan

Hoeller discussing the fragmentation from spiritual to material and reconnecting to that.

www.youtu.be/suA8vXGEfjg

There's a taste to get the mind going on attachment splitting and projection from a couple different models that are interrelated.