Friends w/ benefits then back to a relationship?

[Jmanster]

Hey guys! My name is Josh. And just like a lot of you, I have encountered a girl who has BPD. She is not clinically diagnosed but she carries the characteristics (i.e. She used to cut herself, substance abuse, and massive mood swings.) I have dated her for five months and decided to end the relationship with her. When I was happy with her, I was the happiest and when I was sad with her, it has been the saddest moments in my life. Too many ups and downs, so I decided to end it. 2 days after the break up, I felt guilty and got back into contact with her. (mistake?) I should mention that she is an actress... .We still slept with each other after the break up but I didn't call her my girlfriend. We both travel for work. I left for a week to Kentucky where I tried to be distant from her because I wanted to end this. So for a week while I was gone I did not talk to her. I did however contact her again after 7 days. I come back home and we start sleeping with each other again. The she leaves for 1 month and a half to Oklahoma for work. While she was there she emotionally tortured the hell out of me. She wouldn't return my calls or messages and when I did get to talk to her, her excuses all included that she had to work 18 hour days and that she had no time to talk. But my belief is that if you love someone, you always make time to talk to them... .am I right. So she comes back from Oklahoma and I meet up with her. She tells me that she has changed and that she has met someone over there. My heart breaks. I ask if she slept with him, she says no, but she met someone because she felt like I created this distance. I did create the distance for a little but then I was back to talking to her! I think this is emotional black mail. So she is traveling again and is pulling the same crap on me. She barely returns my messages and she says that she does want to give the relationship another shot. I have never been so confused in my life and she is emotionally destroying me. What do I do guys. If something in my story doesn't make sense, please let me know and I will elaborate. Thank you for your help! (By the way, I involved with another girl during our break up but I still thought of my ex and even if she was involved with another guys does that mean I should be upset because I basically did the same thing. Please let me know what you guys think.)

[Infern0]

It's really up to you,  nobody can tell you what to do in this situation.  Think about what you ACTUALLY want from a relationship and be under no illusions as to how difficult this can be.

If you do decide you want to give it a go,  put the work in with regards to the lessons and readings on this site,  they can help.

Everyone here will support whatever action you take

[HappyNihilist]

  Hi Josh! Welcome to BPD Family.

Like Infern0 said, what to do is really up to you. You have to decide for yourself what your needs/wants are in a relationship, and whether or not this person can ever give you that. This is the case for any relationship, not just one with a person with BPD or BPD traits.

You might find it helpful to back up a bit and look less at her actions/behavior and more at your own feelings, behavior, and needs.

I have dated her for five months and decided to end the relationship with her. When I was happy with her, I was the happiest and when I was sad with her, it has been the saddest moments in my life. Too many ups and downs, so I decided to end it. 2 days after the break up, I felt guilty and got back into contact with her.

Obviously this was a very intensely emotional relationship. It sounds like there was probably a lot of drama. It sounds like you were uncomfortable with the roller-coaster that your relationship with her was, so you ended it.

You say that "you felt guilty" and contacted her again after two days. What exactly prompted these feelings of guilt? Was it only guilt that motivated you, or was there something else there too?

We still slept with each other after the break up but I didn't call her my girlfriend. We both travel for work. I left for a week to Kentucky where I tried to be distant from her because I wanted to end this. So for a week while I was gone I did not talk to her. I did however contact her again after 7 days. I come back home and we start sleeping with each other again.

You break up with her but continue to have sex; then you go away for a week and decide you want to end it completely, so you don't contact her at all; then you contact her again, come home, and resume a sexual relationship. What happened in those 7 days of distance that made you change your mind and contact her again?

Do you see where you might be sending her some pretty mixed messages of your own? Breaking up, then alternating between FWBs and no contact whatsoever? What message is she supposed to take from this?

And, moreover, what message are you trying to send? What is it that you want from this situation? Be completely honest with yourself as to what your expectations are. You may discover that they're unrealistic and have to be adjusted accordingly.

She tells me that she has changed and that she has met someone over there. My heart breaks. I ask if she slept with him, she says no, but she met someone because she felt like I created this distance. I did create the distance for a little but then I was back to talking to her! I think this is emotional black mail.

You have, inadvertently though it may be, been playing into the emotional drama. I know that these relationships can be crazy-making, and I'm not judging by any means. But to truly get a handle on the situation, you need to step back from the drama cycle for a bit.

So she is traveling again and is pulling the same crap on me. She barely returns my messages and she says that she does want to give the relationship another shot. I have never been so confused in my life and she is emotionally destroying me. What do I do guys.

You're overwhelmed, confused, and feel emotionally destroyed. Don't try to figure everything out right now. You have to take some time to yourself and focus, process your emotions and thoughts.

(By the way, I involved with another girl during our break up but I still thought of my ex and even if she was involved with another guys does that mean I should be upset because I basically did the same thing. Please let me know what you guys think.)

Only you can decide whether or not you "should" be upset. More importantly, look at why you're upset or not upset. What are your emotions and reactions telling you about yourself?

These types of relationships can be overwhelming, and especially right after a breakup everything feels raw and confusing. Take a step back, take some deep breaths, and take time to care for yourself.  

[Jmanster]

Thank you for your responses guys! I think you are right. I think I might be confusing love with infatuation with this girl. My biggest problem is trusting her. I think this is why I am going back and forth. How can trust be rebuilt?

[Chasing_Ghosts]

Thank you for your responses guys! I think you are right. I think I might be confusing love with infatuation with this girl.

Perhaps. I see it as your probably more "enmeshed" and you being so flighty is a way to cope with still keeping your sense of self. I did that with my last borderline ex before this one. (Almost all of my exs have displayed PD issues)

My biggest problem is trusting her. I think this is why I am going back and forth. How can trust be rebuilt?

If she a true borderline than the only thing that will help that is years of therapy. She has it ingrained in her disorder to habitually lie and will continue to cheat.(The whole once a cheater always a cheater truly applies to this situation.) These are just coping mechanisms to uphold her fantasy view of reality to protect her fragile ego. Due to splitting she sees the world in all black and all white. This goes for her as well. At her core she feels so much shame and guilt that she must dissociate from it in order to maintain her slight grasp of reality.(Again the fantasy that she projects) Otherwise she would be overwhelmed and probably have a psychotic break thinking she is such a terrible person. This is the state where most borderlines are highly vulnerable to suicide attempts or at the least self destructive behaviors.(Cutting, binge eating, unprotected sex binges,etc.)

Sorry if i got on a rant but i just want to educate you as much as possible so you can understand. If she told you she hasnt slept with him 9/10 she slept with him. If shes blaming you for cheating, shes projecting shes the one that cheated furthering proving this.


Unfortunately to have trust one first needs to have developed enough security and self worth within ones self to have any semblance of this. She doesnt trust anyone not even herself. Dont take it personally shes just disordered and has no sense of either of the things i stated earlier if shes a true BPD.

[Jmanster]

Thanks again for the reply! An interesting thought... .I have read an article about liars, and one article stated that my ego can get in the way of trusting person. The article stated that at times I should trust liars... .I'm only 22 years old and to experience this hell is a complete awakening. She comes back from work next Monday, and now I'm a little bit confused on how I should handle things. I have done a hell of a lot of research on BPD and I feel so much more confident. I'm 90% sure that if I invite her to a romantic dinner and ask her to be my girl again she will say yes. I am not really worried about that. My question is, is it worth it. She is an amazing human being, or at least that is how she markets herself. But I see kindness in her and love, but could I really be that blind. Can she really be that conniving? The first 2 months of our relationship, I have done so much for her, ignoring my needs and desires because I was so in love with her. After two months I started feeling the drag of depression. So when I told her I need to spend some time with my friends and family, she was in shock. If I start a new relationship with her, I will now be able to say no, and do things for me... .But will she think less of me. I have to be a MAN and learn when to say no. I have to build back respect. I want HER to respect me! I don't want to be a slave. I know I can fall back into love with her easily but guards are still up... .do you think when I ask her to be my girl again, setting some boundaries would work? Or will she just cause a fight and ignore them? IS SHE WORTH THIS?

[parisian]

Hey Jmanster.

Perhaps think about what it is that she does, that is really amazing for you. What do her actions show?

Does she show you love, care, honesty, trust and respect? They are the foundations for healthy relationships.

If not, even with putting boundaries in place, is this something you think you will get out the relationship from her? Is this something you are getting now? Sometimes we have an idealised notion or fantasy of what we think things could be like, but our reality is actually quite different.

Partners who respect us understand we are individuals, and that we each have our own needs and interests (such as catching up with our friends and family), appreciate the importance of us engaging in those things, give us time to do that and are comfortable with us doing that, knowing when we come back together with them, everything is okay.

If she puts up a fight and ignores them, that is really disrespecting your boundaries. If she is BPD, then she has no concept of those things at all unfortunately.

Only you can decide if it is worth it. In my experience, if things aren't great right near the start, then over time, it's only going downhill from there... .

[Jmanster]

I really appreciate all of your support guys. Here is a conversation I had with her the last couple days while she is overseas for work... .I'm if I am posting like crazy, but it is only because I need to be 110% sure about my decision. Please read this conversation and see if what I am asking of her is too much. Thank you!

Her:

Hey! So sorry SIM card died then was at the UN in the meeting the whole day. How r u?

Me:

SIM cards don't die, I hope you have fun with your UN, talk to you when you get back

Her:

They run out of money... .That to me equals death! Lol

Me:

Right... .

Me:

I really enjoy the fact that you have not once tried to call me

Her:

What are you talking about? I called you 2 times since I have been here and I have only been here 3 days... .

Me:

I'm not gonna care anymore  too much stress for me

Her:

What is wrong? I'm busy! Do u want me to call for a couple min here and there? Cause from 7 am till 8 or 9 pm we are UN negotiations listening to people from around the world speak…

That's not very cool... .Come on.

Stop being like this!

I can sneak and post pictures  but when it comes to calling I want to give the proper time... .Not cut u off after 2 min... .Plus it is really freaking expensive to keep topping up  my SIM card

Me:

wifi... .but I just dont care anymore... .

Her:

No wifi I'm not staying in a fancy hotel

Me:

i deserve better than this ___ty relationship





Her:

I can't believe u are doing this again when I'm 1 over seas and on compleatlt different time zones and 2 when I am doing something that means so much to me... .It kinda feels like history is repeating itself again... .Why can't you ever just be happy for me? And be kind patent and supportive? Please! I mean come on.

Me:

you have brought out the worst in me... .I am happy for you... .but i need something different in my life than this

Her:

No one can make anyone do something they don't want... .Especially you. So do not try to blame me for your own actions... .You never listened to me anyways... .

Me:

Ive always f**king listened to you... .I have sacrificed so much ___ for you... .dont you f**king dare say that... .I have given you so much, and you treating me like absolute ___... .? do you really think  i deserve that?

Her:

Let me guess your gonna delete me from your life again... .Gosh why don't you stop playing these stupid games?... .Are you missing me right now so are being a little crab? Because if that's the case all you would need to say is that you miss me and want to talk! But being mean to me is not the answer... Why can't you just not spin your wheels and know that I care for you?

Her:

What have you sacrificed for me?

Me:

You dont give a ___ about me

Me:

im not playing games you are

Me:

Ive done so much for you,

Her:

YES I F**KING DO!

And no you have NOT always listened to me! Hens why you broke up with me and why we. Encountered the distance

What have you done for me that I have not done for you?

Me:

what have you given me?

Her:

You answer me first! Since u were the person that accused me

and I asked you the question first

what have you given me that I have not given back to you?

Me:

I gave you a music video, I've bought you wonderful dinners, I gave you my effort, and most importantly I gave you love and companionship

and you f**king treating me like I dont ___ing exist, thats bs

Her:

So did I ... A music video really? After how long and how much crap did I have to put up with?

Me:

HOW MUCH CRAP DID I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH!

I filmed the mother f^%ker

all for you

Her:

Because you were supposed to be my partner in crime. You were supposed to be my cheerleader and friend I have giving you love as well

and so I filmed it, you are acting like it was my f**king fault that it didn't come out... .when you had all the tools to get it finished

Her:

I don't want to argue about that again. If you want to talk let me know I need to go and film a video for UN now... Will be done in 20

Me:

"If I want to talk."

You should f**king want to talk too

(Few Hours Go By)

Me:

Look, I care about you, and you have to understand that it sucks to not being able to talk to you... .How can this be a healthy relationship if we dont check up on each other? When I was in Kentucky you have also acted the same way when we lost contact. I DO WANT TO TALK TO YOU. I am not used to this sort of treatment and I feel like if you really do care, you would try and keep contact with me as well. I miss you very much, and I was angry and I'm sorry, but I want you to understand where I'm coming from. I hope you have a good day and hopefully we will talk soon.- Kisses and hugs


Me:

Hello?

Her:

Yes?

Me

I didn't a response from you

(We had a Skype Call at this time)

Her:

So I'm not sure if you hung up or the phone cut out , Wow ... Ok... We'll seriously think about what I just said... .When the tables turn and ur busy it's ok for you to not be able to talk, but when I

Busy it's not ok? How is that fair how is that ok?  I told you I care about you. And yes you're right I have changed. I am no longer a needy girlfriend. But if that is what you are looking for.  then I don't want to stop you from being happy.

I love you... I told you that... .And THAT has Not changed .

Me:

Please read my skype messages

Me:

We want to give our relationship another shot don't we?

Sunday 1:42am

Her:

yes


Me:

Great talking to you, have fun



(A day goes by)

Her:

Hiii! Sorry it's been a day! Am in this tiny little town in Spain and it takes for ever to send or read any messages at all but wow it is soo beautiful and amazing here! I went to an olive far today:) how are you? Sending love! Miss you!

Me:

No need to apologize, I'm glad you're having fun  that sounds awesome!

[OutOfEgypt]

It really is your decision, but since you are asking for my opinion, here goes:

If she is BPD, I would run away from her as fast as I could and do what I could to never talk to her ever again.  I share children with my BPD ex, so that option is no longer available, though I wish it was.  Just imagine the agony of this drama extending for years and years, and getting worse and worse... .add in lies, cheating, pushing you away, then pulling you close, confusing you, trampling your boundaries, and squeezing the emotional life out of you until you are completely consumed with her, revolving around her every thought and want, and there is nothing left of you.  That is what awaits you.

As for the sex thing goes... .gotta cut that off.  Sex, for many BPD's, is a way to control you.  She probably has you right in her pocket, or will soon.

She will never be satisfied.  You cannot fill a black hole.  Nothing you do will ever be enough.  I spent about 14 years of hell figuring that out, and now I have to live with the consequences of still being connected to this person through children.

[terranova79]

Jmanster,

I agree with what OutofEgypt said.  If you know--or even strongly suspect--she has BPD, I would strongly recommend ending the relationship as soon as you can, especially since you do not have kids.  A few years back my wife and I were on the verge of divorcing.  I had no idea what BPD was and thought that, after several months of therapy and me taking the blame for everything, we had patched things up.  So naively I agree to have a child with her, thinking that we had sorted out our issues.  Boy was I wrong, and now I'm tied to her forever, even if I divorce her.  I wish every day that, back then, I had known what BPD was.  You are lucky that you know what it is.  I don't want to minimize how hard it would be for you to break up with her--I'm sure she has some wonderful qualities.  But you have to think long term.  Best of luck.

[Jmanster]

So basically what you guys are saying, even after reading our conversation, that this is a paradox of a relationship... .There is no hope?

[OutOfEgypt]

I know you probably want to believe otherwise, but yes.  I don't know her personally, but if she has BPD (and based on her language in the conversations you posted) it won't get better.  She won't take responsibility for how she is, and in the end you will never, in her mind, do enough for her, sacrifice enough for her, or care enough about her wants and needs.  It will be a painful, drama-filled, up-and-down, long, exhausting relationship that will likely do long-term damage to you as a person.  You will always be to blame.  She will never see or acknowledge your feelings or how hard you try.  That's basically what you are signing up for if you keep connected to her.  Even if you try to manage a "safe" distance but keep some kind of relationship, she will be constantly pulling you back in when she wants you, using you for a time, then blaming you and throwing you away all over again.  BPD's are pathologically like this.  They want someone who will be around to carry the blame and shame for them, someone who will be obsessed with them, someone to punish.  That's the sad truth.

[Jmanster]

Has there been any record of a successful relationship with a BPD? Any at all?

[OutOfEgypt]

I will say that every BPD is different in degree.  There are also different types of BPD people.  My ex seems more toward the narcissistic end of the spectrum, highly sexualized, prone to using sex to control and punish, prone to cheat, etc.  My girlfriend has a friend who is BPD who is more on the shy, antisocial side.  But the commonalities are staggering.  A personality disorder is, if I can try to explain it simply, a disorder in someone's personality.  It isn't like they have a little depression or something.  This is how they are.  Aside from having to work through a whole host of emotional issues, deal with their moments of emotional dysregulation, and address deeply engrained defense mechanisms that make it impossible to have a mutual relationship with them, they pretty much need to be re-parented.

If you want to know if some people can have successful relationships with a person who has BPD, you should check the Staying board.  "Successful" is a relative term, it seems.  From what I've read, it is still a long, difficult life.  Many of those people have major reasons to stay, however.  They have children with them and have been married for years, only to finally put the pieces together and realize what is wrong with the person they are married to.  I tried to make mine work, too.  But I've seen people who were in the Staying board wind up in the Leaving board.  I just don't know who would want to voluntarily sign up for a life of dysfunction and pain.  If you have no kids with her, I have no idea why you would want to sign up for that.  You must be young?  I used to think that, since I loved her and she loved me, it didn't matter and in the end love would conquer all.  Naive and idealistic.  I felt that way at the very beginning, which is why I married her.  But it doesn't work in this.

Relationships are hard enough as it is.  They shouldn't have to be THIS hard.  It shouldn't take a degree in psychology, membership in a self-help group, and reading 20 different self-help books and books about personality disorders in order to have a relationship with someone.  That's just crazy.  There are plenty of other fish in the sea.  Good ones, too.  My current girlfriend is case-in-point.

[Jmanster]

Thank you for the response. And yes I am young... .I'm 22 Thank you so much for your advice, it really means a lot I have a lot of thinking to do while she is gone for the rest of the week.

[OutOfEgypt]

You're welcome.  Incidentially, I was also 22 when I first got together with my ex.  I had far less sense than you do.

Have you read this article, below?  This was staggeringly accurate of my relationship with my now ex-wife.  My dad read this and was so upset (because it was so accurate) that he couldn't even talk about it.

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm

[Jmanster]

Yes I read that article, it describes her pretty well!

[Jmanster]

Here is what I am going through right now. I am going through the "What If" stage... ."What if I can make it work?" "What if she is being faithful." What if she is telling me the truth?" This is the monster in my head now... .

[DangIthurts]

Relationships are hard enough as it is.  They shouldn't have to be THIS hard.  It shouldn't take a degree in psychology, membership in a self-help group, and reading 20 different self-help books and books about personality disorders in order to have a relationship with someone.  That's just crazy.  There are plenty of other fish in the sea.  Good ones, too.  My current girlfriend is case-in-point.

exactly what my mom said when I was like baffled during some of the down times at some things my ex would say.

Mom basically said relationships are hard. But shouldn't be THIS hard.

[downwhim]

Really the back and forth is painful stuff. Think about the fact that this is not healthy. Time to work on you and lay low on the sex for awhile with anyone. Read as much as you can on this site. It helps. 

[parisian]

OutofEgypt, your comment here about relationships was so true:

They shouldn't have to be THIS hard.  It shouldn't take a degree in psychology, membership in a self-help group, and reading 20 different self-help books and books about personality disorders in order to have a relationship with someone.  That's just crazy.  There are plenty of other fish in the sea.  Good ones, too.

It's a complex combination of a bunch of things that make us stay / persist or give up including:

- how enmeshed / codependent we are

- whether there are children in the relationship

- our own fears about leaving and what that means to our circumstances

- our age

- our beliefs about love and / or compassion

I think when you have the belief that they shouldn't be this hard, that's what makes it easier to leave.

[Jmanster]

Thank you guys so much for your support, I have moved on