Codependency and enabling

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I hope that I can ask this, it's not about my ex with BPD, it's about my daughter and my confusion about codependency and enabling.  And since there are so many people on this site who are experts on the subject, I was hoping to get some insight and other's perspectives.  

It is very clear to me how I was codependent and enabled my ex.  With my daughter I find it a lot more confusing.  She doesn't have BPD so I did not think this appropriate to be on the board for children with BPD.  I don't know what her story is to be honest.  She quit school when she was 16, started heavy into drugs,  refused to come home days at a time, didn't care that I gave her consequences, taking away her phone, computer privileges, etc.  She just gave up on all things she had been interested in, sports, etc.  I tried many different strategies but nothing worked.  Counselling, tough love, etc.  She ended up moving to another province with my parents for nearly a year (when I kicked her out).  Now she is back home, doesn't do heavy drugs anymore (still smokes pot occasionally) but still has no motivation or direction.  She has an amazing social life and friends but no job.  She lives for free at my house while I wait for her to get her ___ together.  She'll be 21 in a week. I've asked her to pay rent.  I really could use the help, I've been left with a mountain of debt from my exh.  It just isn't right.

I have kicked her out in the past, she just goes and 'couch surfs' at friends.  Nothing motivates her.  There seems to be no rock bottom as she always has friends or grandma and grandpa to bail her out (I've been estranged with my mom & dad since this all happened).  

How do I stop enabling this?  I know it's her choice to live her life the way she wants.  But for my view on life she is taking advantage of me and her friends and g&g and just doesn't care.  Is the only answer to give her the boot?  Any opinions and thoughts would be very appreciated.  Please point out to me how I'm being codependent.  I just don't quite get it.  Maybe I'm too emotionally enmeshed.  Our r/s has improved in many other ways in comparison to when she was a teenager.  She has grown to be respectful of me and my boundaries... .except taking responsibility for her life!

[Pingo]

I hope that I can ask this, it's not about my ex with BPD, it's about my daughter and my confusion about codependency and enabling.  And since there are so many people on this site who are experts on the subject, I was hoping to get some insight and other's perspectives.  

It is very clear to me how I was codependent and enabled my ex.  With my daughter I find it a lot more confusing.  She doesn't have BPD so I did not think this appropriate to be on the board for children with BPD.  I don't know what her story is to be honest.  She quit school when she was 16, started heavy into drugs,  refused to come home days at a time, didn't care that I gave her consequences, taking away her phone, computer privileges, etc.  She just gave up on all things she had been interested in, sports, etc.  I tried many different strategies but nothing worked.  Counselling, tough love, etc.  She ended up moving to another province with my parents for nearly a year (when I kicked her out).  Now she is back home, doesn't do heavy drugs anymore (still smokes pot occasionally) but still has no motivation or direction.  She has an amazing social life and friends but no job.  She lives for free at my house while I wait for her to get her ___ together.  She'll be 21 in a week. I've asked her to pay rent.  I really could use the help, I've been left with a mountain of debt from my exh.  It just isn't right.

I have kicked her out in the past, she just goes and 'couch surfs' at friends.  Nothing motivates her.  There seems to be no rock bottom as she always has friends or grandma and grandpa to bail her out (I've been estranged with my mom & dad since this all happened).  

How do I stop enabling this?  I know it's her choice to live her life the way she wants.  But for my view on life she is taking advantage of me and her friends and g&g and just doesn't care.  Is the only answer to give her the boot?  Any opinions and thoughts would be very appreciated.  Please point out to me how I'm being codependent.  I just don't quite get it.  Maybe I'm too emotionally enmeshed.  Our r/s has improved in many other ways in comparison to when she was a teenager.  She has grown to be respectful of me and my boundaries... .except taking responsibility for her life!

[EaglesJuju]

Hi Pingo,

I understand the fine line between being a parent and an enabler.  Although I am not a parent, I am a co-dependent as well. I had a very similar situation with my parents.  When I was younger, I went through a rebellious phase, similar to your daughter.  I stayed out all the time, did not go to school, gave up on sports etc.  My father tried two approaches:  ignoring the problem/enabling and "tough love."  Ignoring the problem reinforced my view that I could do what I wanted without consequence.  The "tough love" approach exacerbated everything.  My father eventually kicked me out at 17.  At the time, I did not understand why he did it, I just thought he did not love me. All I wanted from him was understanding. In my opinion, kicking her out would not be a solution to the problem. I think it would hinder your relationship with her.

I think a lot of young adults are at a crucial period in their life, trying to figure out what is in store for their future.  I understand your frustration with her lack of goals and future plans.  Similar to kicking her out, waiting for her to get her ___ together just masks the problem. Have you tried sitting down and asking her about her future goals?  Having a heart-to-heart talk would be really beneficial to strengthening your relationship and maybe will help her gain a better perspective on your expectations. 

As you said, your relationship with your daughter has improved.  She is respectful of you and your boundaries. Why not set a boundary, using SET, about contributing to the household? 

[Pingo]

Thank you EaglesJuju for your input.  Yes, I did the tough love as well.  I was in full panic when she was doing some heavy drugs that scared the crap out of me.  She wouldn't go back to counselling, wouldn't work with me with the ministry.  I didn't know what else to do at the time.  I am sure I damaged her by doing that, unfortunately can't go back in time. 

Now it's almost 5 yrs later and she has really settled down but still living the life without any responsibility.  I have sat down with her many times to discuss.  What are her future goals?  She wanted to model.  She wants to travel.  That's about all I can get out of her.  How is she going to accomplish this?  She ends up taking off, going to hang out with friends, never wants to get very deep. 

I told her if she's not going to work and I have to go get a second job to pay the bills while she sits on her butt that isn't going to work for me.  I have recently told her that she will have to make up for her lack of paying rent by working it off, keeping the house clean.  We'll see how this goes.  She is respectful of my boundaries now but it's because of me constantly reinforcing them, it hasn't been easy... .I've learned a lot being on this website and the counselling I've had over the year so getting much better at this.

[Pingo]

So I just read this in the article on this site about codependency:

For the enabled person the dependence on the enabler is equally profound. In a codependent relationship, their poor functioning essentially brings them much needed love, care, and concern from an enabler and they are accepted as they are with their addiction, or poor mental or physical health.  The enabler's consistent support reduces the outside pressures on the enabled person to mature, or advance their life skills or confidence.  And, due to their below average functioning, the enabled person may have few relationships as close as their relationship with the enabler. This makes them highly dependent on the enabler to satisfy needs normally met by multiple close relationships.

I can see that this happened clear as day with my uBPDexh.  I waited for him to get back to work for over 2 yrs while he had excuse after excuse and I went into debt waiting.  But it just isn't so clear with my daughter.  I try to accept that she doesn't want to work, doesn't want to go to school, just wants to be social and have fun... .her life, her choice, her values... .but it isn't just.  It isn't right.  So I guess I am still putting my judgment on her of what she should be doing, which is controlling and codependent... .this is where I'm stuck.  I cannot see a way to stop being the enabler without kicking her out.  Which I really don't want to do TBH.

[Blimblam]

I really don't think tough love will help her at all. Or punishing her it will only serve to reinforce that you don't understand her, in her mind. There is a strong possibility that through out the years she has notticed and felt the things you were unaware of. Children tend to feel the part of parents that parents push out of them and dissacosiate from.

I personally find the codependent and enabling model a limited framework to view things through.  The analytic side of psychology tends to go in depth into the "why?" I think in general people with shame want to be understood and understand themselves.

[Blimblam]

I have three book recommendations that I think will go a long way and will put codependency into a larger framework of understanding.  The games people play, which is a transactional analysis book.  Why do I do that? Which is an explanation of defense mechenisms by a psychodynamic analyst. Also the search for the real self the personality disorders of our age by masterson. After reading a book on cptsd it sort of illuminated that most issues stem from truama of some kind and those books I listed actually have cptsd a lot more depth and understanding.

[Theo41]

As a general rule it's bad to let kids live rent free. They get used to it/ badly spoiled. Overtime the idea of renting their own place which will cost 25-50% of what they make seems like an awful idea to them. "I won't have any money left for clothes,booze, drugs,dates, etc. "

So, I would suggest a program like this:

1. Rent will be x. And It starts when you get a job

2. Living rent free is only temporary for a limited time. Say 3 mos .

3. While you are living here without paying rent you are responsible for doing the household chores, including cleaning, laundry, food shopping, cooking.

Consider having them sign a contract. I did that when they wanted driving privileges and/or wanted a car at college. It worked out great. Very few accidents and they paid for any damage.

Hope that helps. Theo

[Pingo]

I really don't think tough love will help her at all. Or punishing her it will only serve to reinforce that you don't understand her, in her mind. There is a strong possibility that through out the years she has notticed and felt the things you were unaware of. Children tend to feel the part of parents that parents push out of them and dissacosiate from.

Yes, I agree Blim, as I said I've tried the tough love route and it really did not result in what I had hoped for.  Did it help?  Not sure.  In the big picture maybe.  Maybe not.  I feel an obligation as a parent to teach her how to be a responsible adult and I've failed that somehow.  When I kicked her out before she was out of control in my view.  She was stealing from me, I even had to call the police to retrieve a family heirloom ring she stole.  She was intolerable.  I couldn't live with the chaos.  There's no chaos now.  She has grown up a lot.  But I still feel like I'm somehow failing her by allowing her to do what she's doing. 

As a general rule it's bad to let kids live rent free. They get used to it/ badly spoiled. Overtime the idea of renting their own place which will cost 25-50% of what they make seems like an awful idea to them. "I won't have any money left for clothes,booze, drugs,dates, etc. "

So, I would suggest a program like this:

1. Rent will be x. And It starts when you get a job

2. Living rent free is only temporary for a limited time. Say 3 mos .

3. While you are living here without paying rent you are responsible for doing the household chores, including cleaning, laundry, food shopping, cooking.

Consider having them sign a contract. I did that when they wanted driving privileges and/or wanted a car at college. It worked out great. Very few accidents and they paid for any damage.

Hope that helps. Theo

Thanks Theo, so my question would be what if you laid out that program, had them sign a contract and they didn't follow it.  Because that is almost exactly what I did when she came home this last June.  I told her I'd give her the summer to get a job, pay her debts and start paying rent in September.  She did get the job.  Two actually.  But then screwed around, didn't show up so many times that she got fired from both of them.  Hasn't paid any debt off, she has creditors after her now.  Does a small amount of cleaning but certainly not what she could be doing.  I didn't have her sign a contract but I did try this in the past.  She followed it for a while and then she just stopped caring about it.  Didn't care about the consequences.