Boundary reinforcement

[Moselle]

My wife went on a rampage 2 days ago. And i mean a serious one in front of the children. Children crying. Wife screaming about extremely sensitive things in front of them. And I mean sexual things,  expletives, what I can go and do with myself.  Very, very stressful.

What do you say after that? What do you do? She's gone back into the the dull, invalidation mode of low intensity BPD,  and I feel like a muddy doormat.

With such a clear, brutal and obvious boundary infringement. What can I do to respond?

I don't want this ever, ever again. There is no place for it in a healthy family which I want to be apart of.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Theo41]

This kind of behavior is very damaging to the children. Mine are grown now. Both had to go to therapy to process it. They keep their distance from us now. When they were growing up in the 70s and 80s I never heard of BPD. My therapist called it "crazy making " (quite an understatement).

The way I handle it now is not to engage. If it continues I remove myself by walking the dog, going to another room, and on two occasions spending the night in a hotel. My wife has the BPD trait of desperately fearing abandonment . On numerous occasions just saying I'm leaving will enable her to control herself.

The one great thing that happened when the kids were 10 and 14: a family therapist demonstrated to her/us through role play that the parental fighting was causing the dysfunctional behavior in our youngest child. She never acted out infront of him again until he was an adult.

Final thought: protect the children ... .and yourself. None of us deserve this although the BPD is expert at making us believe we caused their behavior. I drank that cool aide for years but not anymore. All best to you Moselle. Theo

[Moselle]

Thanks Theo,

This is so unbelievably "crazy making", and it really helps to know I'm not alone.

My kids unfortunately still don't know what is going on, and its my job to educate them, help them.

I'm not willing to have another session like happened the other day, and my wife also realised afterwards how bad it was.

She apologised and agreed that I would leave the house with the children next time it happened. Nice in words. But how can I enforce it? She threatened the kids she would call the police if they left with me. They were scared stiff. My D5 ran to the toilet and locked herself in. My D13 went to her room and my D10 sat there wimpering.

How did the therapist role play it to you?

As I process this, my anger is beginning to rise.

[Crumbling]

 

One positive here is she is acknowledging the destruction her emotions have caused.

I have no advice... .just here to listen, and help you walk through this.

You are NOT alone.

c.

[Grey Kitty]

Nice in words. Tough in reality.

Do it anyway.

If she calls the police, you have the recording of what she said before you left and while you were leaving.

In addition... .I'd recommend you call a local domestic violence shelter/advocate, and ask for support and advice, on how to handle it next time. (Sadly, many of them are "battered women's shelters", so you may get blamed or get zero support as a man. Still it is worth a try.) Or perhaps a lawyer who does DV work. Or post on the legal board here.

Your wife has warned you that legal matters and legal authorities are going to be her next move. Educate yourself about the possibilities, and learn how to protect yourself and your children. You don't want to spend a night in jail, and that is probably avoidable.

My suggestion for you children: Validate them first, education can follow way behind that. They have to have a lot of feelings that need validation after witnessing that incident!

[Moselle]

Thanks all,

I'll be validating them as much as possible.

[Theo41]

Moselle, I don't have a clear recollection but it was kind of what you described: the four of us were roll playing and it purposely evolved into an argument between me and my wife. The older boy did not seem to react but the younger one was visibly extremely upset... whimpering and moving his arms and legs in ways at expressed his agitation. The therapist pointed it out to us and said that this demonstration showed how our behavior had resulted in his misbehavior.

Just had a brainstorm. Read somewhere that one way to get a rager to knock it off is to tape them... .voice ... .and visual if possible. The newer I phones can record the voice. Put i in ur breast pocket with the mic exposed at the top. Once they hear or see themselves they get it and are more motivated to stop, sometimes close to completely. This work with high functioning people who still have som capacity to control there behavior. The "house devil, street angel would be such a person because they have shown a great ability to control their behavior under the right circumstances... for them. Theo

[Crumbling]

Moselle, how are you now, after this blow up?

I heard you say your anger was rising after the fact.  That happens to me too.  Its like being on autopilot when it's happening, and maybe for a while after, but then the emotions take their turn.

Have you got any plans for the holidays?  Anything planned just for you, or perhaps something just for you and the girls, with a little break from mom?

We struggle so hard in our daily lives.  There must be something the holidays can add to this time of struggle for you that can help.  Maybe?

I really like Theo's suggestion too.  I wrote down, word for word one of our blow up sessions after it was said and done, and suggested to my BPDh that I was thinking of posting it online.  He freaked, and wanted to know why I would make him out to be such an ogre.  I pointed out that it wasn't me that did it, but him.  His words, his actions, his rage that made him say those things.  And why is it okay for me to see this side of him and no one else?  Why is it okay that I get to witness all this, but it isn't okay for the rest of the world to see it?  I never posted it, but I think the exercise did help him see how out of control his rages can been.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.   

[Crumbling]

And Grey Kitty's advice sounds pretty dead on too.  Hug them, love them, and really hear and see them.  You sound like a great father, with them being your first concern in all this.  They are fortunate to have you as a dad.

[formflier]

 

Moselle,

Do you have a family T involved with this situation?

[Moselle]

Crumbing,

A bit of validation - thank you. I've wondered what that feels like  

I'm OK thanks - she's been away all day today, so its been a break from the emotional turmoil, and I've got my wits about me again.

I had the kids all day which was an absolute pleasure.

[Moselle]

Formflier,

I've tried to organize this a few times. I tried a therapist but she seemed not to get what was really happening, so we didn't go back. I haven't pursued it again

Just trying to get through Christmas :-)

I'll start the older 2 children on DBT in the New Year

[formflier]

 

I think FT is key... .that way the T is the one "ordering her around"... .or "protecting the kids" and not you.

FT was the key for my family to get on the right path.

Wife and I both saw the impact of our actions... .and what the potential costs were if we didn't "clean up our acts".

I tried to stay away from... .it's all her fault... .

Luckily... .we can always do things better.

[Moselle]

That's a good point - thanks

I've made it a priority

[Cole]

Moselle, Sorry you had to deal with this. I truly understand what you are dealing with. I deal with the same thing remarkably often, and I am sure it contributes to my autistic son's behavior problems.

In my case, I tried something new a few months ago that works. When my wife starts to go off, I hold her and tell her it is going to be OK. It is rather counter-intuitive, but in our case it works. She usually calms down rapidly followed by tears and gut-wrenching shame over how she was acting.

Don't know if it will work for you, but thought I would offer. Since joining this forum a few days ago I have learned there are a lot of people in the same situation I am in.

[Crumbling]

Good to hear you're doing well, Moselle.  Sounds like you made the best of a bad situation.  Good for you!

Good use of your support team, too.

Merry Sunday, All!

[formflier]

  When my wife starts to go off, I hold her and tell her it is going to be OK. 

Every r/s (relationship) is different.  I'm glad this works for you. 

If trying this turns into a physical altercation... be very cautious about continuing... .

pwBPD can sometimes see or claim that something like this is unwanted... .

[Cole]

If trying this turns into a physical altercation... be very cautious about continuing... .

Good advice for anyone who has not tried it before. During a stable period I asked her how I should respond when she is out of control. It was her idea to hold her and reassure her, and it does work for us.

[Grey Kitty]

During a stable period I asked her how I should respond when she is out of control. It was her idea to hold her and reassure her, and it does work for us.

Excellent idea, asking how you can help... .at a time when you can get a good answer, and following through at a time she can't ask for it.