Relationship lengths to do with high functioning vs low functioning?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm curious why those of you who chose to hide felt you needed to--

[Elpis]

I'm curious why those of you who chose to hide felt you needed to--

[Hope0807]

Hey Mercury2Pluto,

I'm so with you on this.  My relationship was 7 years, 6 married, mostly all bizarrely fluctuating between wonderfully loving... .and tragically, emotionally dysfunctional.  The fallout (Discard phase) was nothing like I could have ever possibly imagined.  It was worse than what I used to smh at watching Dateline and other true-story TV shows.  I too, would never believe the stories I so wish others around me would understand, but know they just see his warmth and charisma.

Like you also, I am much more aware of how many "seemingly normal people around me actually have secret tragic personal lives."

4 year marriage to high functioning partner.  She was remarkably intelligent, charming and successful.  Many friends.  Three graduate degrees.  I doubt that anyone would believe me if I described her private behavior.  Except this board of course    If I had heard about her behavior without witnessing it myself I probably would not have believed it.

The experience with that public / private persona disconnect has made me less likely to assume things about other people.  Sometimes I wonder which of the seemingly normal people around me actually have secret tragic personal lives. 

[Hope0807]

I don't believe this is true across the board for PDs, especially since there is so much potential overlap with other disorders.  I thought I had the most intense, close, loving relationship two people could have…even despite the horrible fights.  I truly believed that.  Today, I do not believe that on any level he had "real feelings" for me.  Based on what he did to me in the fallout and the cruelty that was revealed that went on over our years together, I fully believe my ex had no real feelings for me, or anyone else, and is completely incapable of love or genuine compassion.  However, I think he's GREAT, INCREDIBLE…at FAKING those things.  So where's the Oscar icon to go with the newest ones up there? 

One thing that makes it hard for me is the fact as brought up in this thread that it is only the people that get close to them who get to see behind the curtain. It is this thatmakes disconnecting more difficult as it shows that on some level they had real feelings for us.

[Hope0807]

Let Me Out,

I love that you feel this way, "no desire to hear his voice" after 35 years of marriage.  Good for you!   

Yeah, he had it coming.

But I am really surprised at our adult children who think I should start talking to him again. After 3 years of no contact and peace and quiet, why would I want to hear his voice again?

The kids think I'm being silly not attending any events that he will be at. He has been wanting to talk to me and I will keep refusing. I have no desire to hear his voice.

[Elpis]

I'm curious why those of you who chose to hide felt you needed to--

Nobody?

I've been pretty much off FB for the duration of the time since I left, and I've been trying to handle my contact with my uBPDh of 38 years by fairly neutral answers. i'm concerned for what might happen once I actually pursue legal action, so i'm wondering if that's why you chose to hide from them--did it get so difficult, were they threatening, what? i'm trying to be prepared going forward. Though I can't entirely hide because we have family together.

[Hawk Ridge]

Sorry... .hard question to answer for 2reasons: 1) shame that I didn't realize it and get out; 2) the brainwashing that made me wonder if it was normal.  I realize now I knew something was wrong earlier and I wanted out but I kept trying to tough it out... .not a great answer but an honest one

[Elpis]

Sorry... .hard question to answer for 2reasons: 1) shame that I didn't realize it and get out; 2) the brainwashing that made me wonder if it was normal.  I realize now I knew something was wrong earlier and I wanted out but I kept trying to tough it out... .not a great answer but an honest one

Well, that's totally my story too... .slowest learner on earth here, so i'm sure not judging you! I've used the word "brainwashing" too in describing things to others. It's a weird place to be, realizing that you've set your own instincts totally aside!

[Hawk Ridge]

It really is... .my ex and I are both successful professionals with me working in the field of mental health... .almost 25 years with many difficult BPD's and I didn't see it in my personal life.  I let her, a high functioning BPD, beat me emotionally to a pulp and I didn't see it.  Thank God for these boards.  Thank you for empathizing.  I am so sorry we went through this... .

[Elpis]

It really is... .my ex and I are both successful professionals with me working in the field of mental health... .almost 25 years with many difficult BPD's and I didn't see it in my personal life.  I let her, a high functioning BPD, beat me emotionally to a pulp and I didn't see it.  Thank God for these boards.  Thank you for empathizing.  I am so sorry we went through this... .

MEEEE TOO... .

[Hawk Ridge]

We'll make it through... .all of us together.

In re: court, here's how I handle it for my work duties as my job is also court based.  All the court wants is facts, not feelings so it is important, as you sort your way through the fog to consult with your attorney and just focus on what info is needed, trying to put your emotions aside. Bring them here to this board instead. With your ex, Always have a 3rd party present and document it. It's more difficult for him to triangulate and control that way.  It can just be a boundary thing you incorporate as a new tool.  Now, back with my personal hat on, I know it's difficult because of what we have been through. I hope I didn't overstep my lines.  I am not on this board as a professional... it's as a survivor wanting to return to being a thriver. Your attorney is your guide and you are on your way to becoming a thriver again. :-)

[Elpis]

Great points, Hawk Ridge--and we learn from each others' experiences!

I'm with you on that moving forward into being a thriver. i'm not sure I ever got there since I went from my Poo FOO to a short bit of independent life into marriage at 23. So this may be my first real time at thriving at 61! Interesting to look forward to. 

[Hawk Ridge]

I am 10 years younger than you AND i believe we have a whole new life ahead of us... .I really do!  Can't wait to hear all about it!

[Elpis]

I am 10 years younger than you AND i believe we have a whole new life ahead of us... .I really do!  Can't wait to hear all about it!

That's what my therapist keeps assuring me... .

[Hawk Ridge]

Mine too! :-)

[Hope0807]

My ex said stuff over the years like:  "I could get rid of a body and no one would find it."  "I'm a sick MF, you have no idea of the sick stuff I think about doing to people who cross me, no idea."

Yeah…and I thought he just needed a dose of anger management.  After I uncovered a massive amount of street and prescription drugs he was using and selling - I'm sticking with the PO Box:)

I'm curious why those of you who chose to hide felt you needed to--

Nobody?

I've been pretty much off FB for the duration of the time since I left, and I've been trying to handle my contact with my uBPDh of 38 years by fairly neutral answers. i'm concerned for what might happen once I actually pursue legal action, so i'm wondering if that's why you chose to hide from them--did it get so difficult, were they threatening, what? i'm trying to be prepared going forward. Though I can't entirely hide because we have family together.

[Elpis]

My ex said stuff over the years like:  "I could get rid of a body and no one would find it."  "I'm a sick MF, you have no idea of the sick stuff I think about doing to people who cross me, no idea."

Yeah…and I thought he just needed a dose of anger management.  After I uncovered a massive amount of street and prescription drugs he was using and selling - I'm sticking with the PO Box:)

HOLY! That would do it for me. 

Mine too! :-)

I think I like our therapists. 

[letmeout]

My ex said stuff over the years like:  "I could get rid of a body and no one would find it."  "I'm a sick MF, you have no idea of the sick stuff I think about doing to people who cross me, no idea."

HOLY! That would do it for me.  

Mine too! :-)

Mine became obsessed with the thought of murder/suicide (his and mine). I think me going into hiding kept us both alive. It is pretty scary when you don't know what someone who is acting that crazy is really going to do.

[Elpis]

My ex said stuff over the years like:  "I could get rid of a body and no one would find it."  "I'm a sick MF, you have no idea of the sick stuff I think about doing to people who cross me, no idea."

HOLY! That would do it for me.  

Mine too! :-)

Mine became obsessed with the thought of murder/suicide (his and mine). I think me going into hiding kept us both alive. It is pretty scary when you don't know what someone who is acting that crazy is really going to do.

That would be beyond unsettling! I guess that would be the lower functioning type of pwBPD? Or not?

[cosmonaut]

The best analysis I have based on my ex, her history, and all that I have been able to read is that emotional intimacy is what more than anything is likely to determine the length of the relationship.  Or perhaps that lack of emotional intimacy.  It is a tragic outcome of BPD that those that love pwBPD the most tend to be the people most likely to be pushed away.  Partners (and parents/siblings/close friends/etc.) that have a certain distance and lack an especially close emotional intimacy seem to have the most chance of a stable relationship with a pwBPD.  In particular, partners that are abusive or narcissistic may, frighteningly enough, be able to strike the most stable equilibrium of all - which may explain why so many of us here have exes that have been or even return to very dangerous relationships.  My thinking is that these abusive relationships provides the attachment needed while the lack of emotional closeness prevents the engulfment.  It's incredibly damaging in so many other ways, but the BPD finds an equilibrium in this situation - no matter that it is exceedingly toxic.  The longest relationship my ex has had, and the only one she ever went back to, was with her unimaginably abusive ex-husband.  She even told me as much a few times that there wasn't much of a connection between them and she couldn't understand why she stayed with him.  That they never talked.  There wasn't really any romance.  I didn't understand any of that until I learned about BPD and then it seemed to make sense.

Sadly, those that truly and deeply loved their ex probably triggered them faster and and lead to a shorter relationship.  Of course this isn't any sort of ironclad rule and every pwBPD and every relationship are different, but it does seem to be a general trend.

[BorisAcusio]

The best analysis I have based on my ex, her history, and all that I have been able to read is that emotional intimacy is what more than anything is likely to determine the length of the relationship.  Or perhaps that lack of emotional intimacy.  It is a tragic outcome of BPD that those that love pwBPD the most tend to be the people most likely to be pushed away.  Partners (and parents/siblings/close friends/etc.) that have a certain distance and lack an especially close emotional intimacy seem to have the most chance of a stable relationship with a pwBPD.  In particular, partners that are abusive or narcissistic may, frighteningly enough, be able to strike the most stable equilibrium of all - which may explain why so many of us here have exes that have been or even return to very dangerous relationships.  My thinking is that these abusive relationships provides the attachment needed while the lack of emotional closeness prevents the engulfment.  It's incredibly damaging in so many other ways, but the BPD finds an equilibrium in this situation - no matter that it is exceedingly toxic.  The longest relationship my ex has had, and the only one she ever went back to, was with her unimaginably abusive ex-husband.  She even told me as much a few times that there wasn't much of a connection between them and she couldn't understand why she stayed with him.  That they never talked.  There wasn't really any romance.  I didn't understand any of that until I learned about BPD and then it seemed to make sense.

Sadly, those that truly and deeply loved their ex probably triggered them faster and and lead to a shorter relationship.  Of course this isn't any sort of ironclad rule and every pwBPD and every relationship are different, but it does seem to be a general trend.

I certainly agree with the emotional distance. My ex's longest relationship was with a man most likely suffering from a condition on the schizoid scale, maybe mild aspergers. He was truly inclined to believe - as most with AS - that the fact they have gone out to work, or completed a task in the house, is an adequate demonstration and evidence of his love. There was no more intimacy from his side, no cuddling in the bed or anything like that. Served as a safe harbor, provided shelter for a low functioning individual while not questioning her lifestyle or his own notion of intimacy.  

Narcissist are just as fragile as borderlines, as a probable sufferer, I can tell you the borderline-narccisistic couple only works until the fantasy is broken. It's highly volatile and both party hurts tremendeously at the end.

When the Borderline fear, which is defuse and pervasive, is displaced onto the attachment bond and the partner receives an attack on the false self without warning, two things happen- the partner either withdraws or feels forced to defend the “false” self. At this juncture, both parties are participants in maladaptive coping measures- especially those concerning identity.

How will you know and recognize your false self? When it doesn’t work anymore. Whatever was presented in strength has now become a weakness. If you started out as a rescuer, you will eventually become a victim. If you started out in a one up position, you will end up at the same level. Because your false self involves fantasy thinking rather than reality testing; it has not survived. As they say, the mask comes off.  Not theirs- YOURS.

[Lolster]

Uexbf - Low functioning waif/hermit, very short relationship ended by me, even shorter recycle.

Uex friend - High functioning, queen/witch, friendship lasted a couple of years, contact massively restricted by her.  She's somewhere in the background checking in occasionally (when she requires advice generally).

I'm not sure if the difference (for me accepting certain behaviours) was that one was a romantic relationship and the other wasn't, or whether it was to do with the different types or the low/high functioning aspect.  The hf female friend went through romantic relationships much more swiftly, as in the men generally ran from her pretty fast.  Of course in her eyes they were all immature cavemen types. 

[enlighten me]

14 years with waif ex wife. 2 1/2 with queen exgf. I guess I can handle the drama of a waif but the queens cinfrontational style I couldnt deal with.

[Lolster]

14 years with waif ex wife. 2 1/2 with queen exgf. I guess I can handle the drama of a waif but the queens cinfrontational style I couldnt deal with.

Maybe it is 50/50 to do with what we can manage as much as what they are?  I can deal with confrontation quite effectively, but the far more obvious neediness/overt sulkiness has me running for the hills.

[enlighten me]

Normal confrontation I can deal with. Ive been in situations where my life was in danger and have managed to talk my way out of it. I have reasoned with people and come to a satisfactory out come but I coulsnt handle the irrational confrontations of my exgf. When someone is trying tonvince you black is white one minute then arguing the other way the next was just too much.

ive dealt with drunks that where more rational.

[letmeout]

I've dealt with drunks that where more rational.

Drunks are not always mentally ill, therefore more rational.

Mine became obsessed with the thought of murder/suicide (his and mine). I think me going into hiding kept us both alive. It is pretty scary when you don't know what someone who is acting that crazy is really going to do. [/quote]

That would be beyond unsettling! I guess that would be the lower functioning type of pwBPD? Or not?

He was once high functioning, but the last few years he titter-tottered between the two. Some BPDs obviously get worse as they age.

[Elpis]

My uBPDh certainly upped his game into more aggressive behavior as he aged. But he's remained high-functioning, perhaps becoming even more high-functioning at work over time. He's quite proud that he knows ways to manipulate others.

[Ripped Heart]

One thing that makes it hard for me is the fact as brought up in this thread that it is only the people that get close to them who get to see behind the curtain. It is this thatmakes disconnecting more difficult as it shows that on some level they had real feelings for us.

They fear engulfment. As we get closer, it triggers their fear of abandonment. It seems so messed up... But I truly believe that my ex loves me and that's why she left me. Part of me wants to believe that they leave us knowing that they love them, so that they don't ever have to see us fall out of them with them and leave THEM. Because that would hurt them even more then they already do.

I would have to agree with this statement because only last week my now exgf stated that she would hate for me to hate her. She wouldn't even come clean about the affair, neither accepting or denying it. Though I know it 100% to be true.

She even went as far last night as saying sorry, she meant no malice and to thank me for everything I did for her. I see that as hoping I would say thank you, give her a pat on the back and send her on her way. Instead, I refused to take ownership of her responsibilities and actions and that is how things were left.

She was low functioning and from what I can gather, in the past 7 years our r/s of 11 months has been the longest for her.

[ADecadeLost]

Maybe it is 50/50 to do with what we can manage as much as what they are?

I think what we can handle plays a large role in the duration of these relationships.  Whether it's an ability to deal with confrontation, a predisposition towards accepting abuse, or something else, I think it's equally as important as whether or BPD SOs were high or low functioning.

In my case, I'd say my ex was somewhere in the middle (closer to high functioning with medication and therapy).  That said, my propensity to deal with high conflict situations can probably be partially attributed to the longevity of our relationship (10 yrs/6 married).  Comparatively, her prior relationships averaged roughly 2 years (including breaks/recycles).

[toomanytears]

Yeah, he had it coming.

But I am really surprised at our adult children who think I should start talking to him again. After 3 years of no contact and peace and quiet, why would I want to hear his voice again?

The kids think I'm being silly not attending any events that he will be at. He has been wanting to talk to me and I will keep refusing. I have no desire to hear his voice.

letmeout

You are not being silly. It's the only way to survive when you have been in a long term marriage.

I was married for 31 years when my ex developed a sudden passion for the Quaker movement and ran off with a high profile Quaker spokeswoman. He is a high functioning top professor with a rather ridiculous title which only serves to inflate his narcissism.

My kids are as much under his spell as I was and I just hope that one day they will see behind the mask. At the moment he is taking the role of their darling daddy and love- bombing them with constant text messaging and gifts. I am staying with my daughter over new year and was shocked to see five closely hand written cards from him on display. I put them out of sight and told her I couldn't stand to see his handwriting. She has to accept that. It is my boundary now.

Of course our kids want things to be amicable and friendly. It makes life nicer and easier for them. But they are grown ups now and it 's time they respected your feelings. I expect like me you spent their younger years shielding them from the awfulness of his behaviour towards you. 35 years is a very very long time. You are absolutely entitled to set your own boundary now and avoid events he is at in order to preserve your own feelings and heal in yiur own time.

[HappyNihilist]

The best analysis I have based on my ex, her history, and all that I have been able to read is that emotional intimacy is what more than anything is likely to determine the length of the relationship.  Or perhaps that lack of emotional intimacy.  It is a tragic outcome of BPD that those that love pwBPD the most tend to be the people most likely to be pushed away. 

This was the case with my exBPDbf, as well. His longest, most stable relationship was with someone he did like and respect but wasn't "in love with" (his words).

What I've read seems to support this. If the pwBPD is not really emotionally invested, then the core fears do not get triggered (or at least not as intensely). Love is scary for a pwBPD. As A.J. Mahari (who is recovered from BPD) says--

Love for [the pwBPD] felt like punishment. Love felt them feeling bad about themselves. Love annihilated them.

Partners (and parents/siblings/close friends/etc.) that have a certain distance and lack an especially close emotional intimacy seem to have the most chance of a stable relationship with a pwBPD.