This illness defies logic.

[maxsterling]

It's almost like some wrote a book called "how to drive partners away" and they followed the checklist, yet wonder why people keep leaving them.  I mean - every single thing that every single relationship expert tells you not to do, they do.  They carry every single red flag of abusive relationships.

Today she told me she didn't want to spend overnight at my parents house this weekend.  Fine.  I told her we didn't have to, but that I wanted to see them.  It is Christmas, after all.  Then tonight she told me she did not want to see them at all.  I told her I wanted to see them, even if just for a few hours.  Then she said she didn't want me to go without her.  I didn't relent. 

I think that is one of the top 5 signs you are in an abusive relationship, when your partner tries to isolate you from family and friends.  Seems like every checklist has that as a top item.  She's had relationships end before because of that behavior!  She's been told by her therapist, our MCs, her AA sponsors, and friends that this is bad.  And yet, here she is again, wanting me to not visit my family? 

Perplexing.  She's smart enough to know I will be upset by this and that it will hurt our relationship.  Yet... .it seems like she would be happy if I never saw my family or friends again.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sweetheart]

max for me that is why after eight years with my husband if I don't go ahead and live the life that we planned, do the things that we discussed and arranged I would have no life. If I changed plans every time my h was having a moment, or couldn't come with us or felt like doing things differently we would be in chaos. Internally my h is in chaos most of the time, events, plans,life etc trigger his chaos. I see my role has involving him in the decision making wherever possible and carrying through the original plans we made. I am not willing to mirror his chaos. So I am staying overnight at my mums, after many years I know he never will, so he stays at home.

What's different after 8 years is I no longer need to question or puzzle out why he is doing these things. I just accept it all as part of the illness now.

I've read many books around this illness but it was the advice given in Stop Caretaking the BPD/NPD... .that if you decide to stay with someone with BPD that has helped me the most. My h is low functioning and that brings with it a whole world of damage.

I very seldom post now because once the illness is fully visible it is predictable and using the lessons I can usually bumble through the minefield that is BPD.

The holidays bring their own particular type of dilemmas and disruption, it is a tricky time for all involved.

[Cole]

Maxsterling,

Understand how you are feeling and sorry for the frustration you are living with. You are not alone, and it is not anything you are doing wrong. My wife watched her mom run off the family on both the maternal and fraternal sides. She complains about how that gave her a lonely childhood and isolated her dad. Yet, she does the exact same thing to me. She sees it and admits it, but will not stop it. From what I have read, this is a pervasive trait of BPD.

We have our books, I wonder if they have theirs? "How to Destroy a Relationship Despite the Best Efforts of the People Who Love You" would have to be the how-to guide to this disease.     

[notdownyet]

I think the title of your post says it all about this illness.

There is a logic there, it's just that no one over the age of 3 would subscribe to it.

In the past my wife's been reluctant to have contact with my family.

I put this down to her abandonment fears.  I imagine that she feels that my family will judge and reject her, on the basis of her behaviour.  These are people after all, that she has no control over, and isn't able to maniputale and influence.

[Cole]

I put this down to her abandonment fears.  I imagine that she feels that my family will judge and reject her, on the basis of her behaviour.  These are people after all, that she has no control over, and isn't able to maniputale and influence.

Excellent observation. I think you hit the nail right on the head for a lot of folks with BPD.

[maxsterling]

I put this down to her abandonment fears.  I imagine that she feels that my family will judge and reject her, on the basis of her behaviour.  These are people after all, that she has no control over, and isn't able to maniputale and influence.

Excellent observation. I think you hit the nail right on the head for a lot of folks with BPD.

Oh for sure!  That's the reason she doesn't want to go - she fears my family will judge her.  But what is truly baffling is that surely she must know that by not going to my family functions, they definitely will be talking behind her back!

[Crumbling]

So, how are you going to deal with this Max?  I'm in the same space as Sweetheart, I don't make plans with him any more.  I make plans taking him into consideration, and execute them on my terms.  

Sadly, it has taken me a long time to get here - something you dont have, in dealing with your present situation.  And the first time I enforced this boundary was a fiasco!  I went away to a family reunion without him, because he refused to go, and he ended up getting drunk and catching our car on fire, in the driveway, less than twenty feet from our home!  Fire trucks, evacuation alerts, the whole nine yards.  The car and an oak tree paid the price, but thank goodness, our home stayed in tact!  He still claims to this day, it was an accident, but I will always wonder.

If you're prepared for such a clash, stand your ground, set your boundaries and charge on!  If you feel your r/s needs some TLC, do that.  Show her the love you are capable of giving, then point out that you couldn't be that person without your parents/Mom and that she may not like your mom, but Mom must have done something right, because she made the man your gf loves.  She can't not agree with you, or she is saying she doesn't love you. And that it just wouldn't be right for you to neglect her at this time of the year.  I'm just thinking on paper here. Thoughts?

[ColdEthyl]

It's almost like some wrote a book called "how to drive partners away" and they followed the checklist, yet wonder why people keep leaving them.  I mean - every single thing that every single relationship expert tells you not to do, they do.  They carry every single red flag of abusive relationships.

Today she told me she didn't want to spend overnight at my parents house this weekend.  Fine.  I told her we didn't have to, but that I wanted to see them.  It is Christmas, after all.  Then tonight she told me she did not want to see them at all.  I told her I wanted to see them, even if just for a few hours.  Then she said she didn't want me to go without her.  I didn't relent. 

I think that is one of the top 5 signs you are in an abusive relationship, when your partner tries to isolate you from family and friends.  Seems like every checklist has that as a top item.  She's had relationships end before because of that behavior!  She's been told by her therapist, our MCs, her AA sponsors, and friends that this is bad.  And yet, here she is again, wanting me to not visit my family? 

Perplexing.  She's smart enough to know I will be upset by this and that it will hurt our relationship.  Yet... .it seems like she would be happy if I never saw my family or friends again.

I'm kinda dealing with similar stuff right now too, Max. It really does seem like they do everything to sabotage the relationship, only to be be puzzled as to what happened. I don't make plan with my husband anymore, and if he doesn't want to go somewhere I just go alone.

Right now, I'm dealing with being accused of cheating VIA a child's FB game.

[maxsterling]

Well, I guess time to explore the root issues here.  You know, they say they are mad at you but you know there is something else going on... .

Here are the things I considered:

- My sister is moving some place where my wife always wanted to live. She's jealous, but rather than say that she's saying all kinds of things about how foolish or stupid my sister is.

- She's jealous of my sister in law, for also being diagnosed BPD but being much higher functioning.  My SIL manages to have jobs, raise a child, and be happy some of the time.

- I think she is jealous of my parents for being happy and not giving a crap what others think of them. 

- She doesn't have a close, loving family, and I think she is resentful of me for having one.

And here is what she just told me (in tears):

- It's all about food.  She's concerned that she is overweight and can't control herself around food.  She's worried she won't have any control over what my mom serves, and can't sit around and watch others gorge themselves.  She's also concerned that my mom does not use healthy organic ingredients and doesn't serve correct portions.

Wow.  Would have never thought that!  Makes sense, but I think the above jealousy issues are also going on there.   I do want to add that I don't think she would have revealed this to me had I not stood firm that I want to see my family this weekend.  She was in a crabby mood ever since I told her that, and I have been better at not trying to validate the invalid or pacify her crabby mood. 

[ColdEthyl]

Well, I guess time to explore the root issues here.  You know, they say they are mad at you but you know there is something else going on... .

Here are the things I considered:

- My sister is moving some place where my wife always wanted to live. She's jealous, but rather than say that she's saying all kinds of things about how foolish or stupid my sister is.

- She's jealous of my sister in law, for also being diagnosed BPD but being much higher functioning.  My SIL manages to have jobs, raise a child, and be happy some of the time.

- I think she is jealous of my parents for being happy and not giving a crap what others think of them. 

- She doesn't have a close, loving family, and I think she is resentful of me for having one.

And here is what she just told me (in tears):

- It's all about food.  She's concerned that she is overweight and can't control herself around food.  She's worried she won't have any control over what my mom serves, and can't sit around and watch others gorge themselves.  She's also concerned that my mom does not use healthy organic ingredients and doesn't serve correct portions.

Wow.  Would have never thought that!  Makes sense, but I think the above jealousy issues are also going on there.   I do want to add that I don't think she would have revealed this to me had I not stood firm that I want to see my family this weekend.  She was in a crabby mood ever since I told her that, and I have been better at not trying to validate the invalid or pacify her crabby mood. 

Well you are right and I know where his junk is coming from. For one he's depressed because of the holidays, and we haven't had sun in 20 days. He gets seasonal depression, so this is a big deal. Second, he's been really down on himself lately about not working, not contributing to the house, etc etc, so I'm sure most of this is from insecurity. He's on a daily basis kick of saying he doesn't know why I love him and choose to be with him so I could do better. I think that "I could od better" in his head means I will... .or it's only a matter of time.

[jedimaster]

Well, I guess time to explore the root issues here.  You know, they say they are mad at you but you know there is something else going on... .

Here are the things I considered:

- My sister is moving some place where my wife always wanted to live. She's jealous, but rather than say that she's saying all kinds of things about how foolish or stupid my sister is.

- She's jealous of my sister in law, for also being diagnosed BPD but being much higher functioning.  My SIL manages to have jobs, raise a child, and be happy some of the time.

- I think she is jealous of my parents for being happy and not giving a crap what others think of them. 

- She doesn't have a close, loving family, and I think she is resentful of me for having one.

And here is what she just told me (in tears):

- It's all about food.  She's concerned that she is overweight and can't control herself around food.  She's worried she won't have any control over what my mom serves, and can't sit around and watch others gorge themselves.  She's also concerned that my mom does not use healthy organic ingredients and doesn't serve correct portions.

Wow.  Would have never thought that!  Makes sense, but I think the above jealousy issues are also going on there.   I do want to add that I don't think she would have revealed this to me had I not stood firm that I want to see my family this weekend.  She was in a crabby mood ever since I told her that, and I have been better at not trying to validate the invalid or pacify her crabby mood. 

Max, if either of us is ever charged with bigamy, we're both gonna have some 'splainin to do.  How do they keep turning out these folks from the same mold?  My sister does not have BPD, but she is an extremely successful businesswoman and CEO of a fast growing company.  We get along great and I work for her--no issues.  But my wife is convinced it's a fly-by-night operation and that my sis does everything just for show, and is only in business for the personal recognition.

My wife also is always critical of others' cooking and dietary habits.  Granted, she has been a huge success with her own weight loss and healthy eating habits, but nobody else can ever manage to do it quite as well as she.  She also claims a myriad of allergies and sensitivities, and I have no idea how many are real and how many are imagined.  Also jealous of my parents and their comfortable, happy relationship. 

It's bad enough living with all the crap she dishes out, but knowing the real talents and abilities she has, it's doubly hard watching her waste her energy on being jealous of others while flitting her own life away looking for the happiness she can never find.

[maxsterling]

It's bad enough living with all the crap she dishes out, but knowing the real talents and abilities she has, it's doubly hard watching her waste her energy on being jealous of others while flitting her own life away looking for the happiness she can never find.

Very frustrating!  Yes, I know this all too well.  Even more frustrating when they seem to know and vocalize their issues, yet keep doing the same things.  My wife knows she has a problem, knows she has to change, yet half an hour after vocalizing her problem, she's back in the same place.  "WOW, I'm letting my friend's problems bother me too much. I can't detach from my friends and I always wind up losing friendships.  I've gotten into huge hurtful shouting matches with so many best friends in my life.  What is wrong with me?"  Half an hour later.  "I couldn't just be silent, so I sent her an email.  She got defensive in response, and I think I called her a b___ when I responded back to her.  I deleted her email and phone number so that I am not tempted to contact her again."

[Cole]

Even more frustrating when they seem to know and vocalize their issues, yet keep doing the same things.  My wife knows she has a problem, knows she has to change, yet half an hour after vocalizing her problem, she's back in the same place. 

Are you sure we are not married to the same woman?

"I stuck my hand in the fire and it hurt. Boy, that was a dumb thing to do! Oh, well, I am going to go do it again."

[Crumbling]

My guy will drink an entire 2L bottle of pop by himself, in one evening, then wonder why he was up all night peeing!  Then complain about the next evening, as he is sucking back the next bottle.

Male or female, they do seem to all come from the same mold, or is it the same mould?

[Cole]

My guy will drink an entire 2L bottle of pop by himself, in one evening, then wonder why he was up all night peeing!  Then complain about the next evening, as he is sucking back the next bottle.

Male or female, they do seem to all come from the same mold, or is it the same mould?

Yes, they do! And as Maxsterling wrote, they know it but go right back.

There is an episode of the Simpsons where Lisa wires a cupcake as part of an experiment. Bart finds it, touches it, and gets shocked. Then he does it over and over... ."Ouch!" "Ouch!" "Ouch!" "Ouch!""Ouch!" "Ouch!"

Last time we saw it, my wife said, "That is our son."

(Wait for it... .it will hit her in a minute... .)  

"Oh my god, that's me, too!"

Glad she said it. I was thinking it, but not about to vocalize it!

[maxsterling]

My guy will drink an entire 2L bottle of pop by himself, in one evening, then wonder why he was up all night peeing!  Then complain about the next evening, as he is sucking back the next bottle.

Male or female, they do seem to all come from the same mold, or is it the same mould?

Yes, they do! And as Maxsterling wrote, they know it but go right back.

There is an episode of the Simpsons where Lisa wires a cupcake as part of an experiment. Bart finds it, touches it, and gets shocked. Then he does it over and over... ."Ouch!" "Ouch!" "Ouch!" "Ouch!""Ouch!" "Ouch!"

Last time we saw it, my wife said, "That is our son."

(Wait for it... .it will hit her in a minute... .)  

"Oh my god, that's me, too!"

Glad she said it. I was thinking it, but not about to vocalize it!

Yeah, my wife has characterized her life as "shooting herself in the foot" over and over.  I thought we had reached a breakthrough when she vocalized that.  Then I realized this was not a new revelation for her.

Lately her thing has been with food and overeating.  She's recognizing this as an addiction.  But this isn't new to her - she's known this for awhile. 

And today she was going to go to Yoga.  When I met her, she would talk about how she was into Yoga and how it has really helped her.  That was two years ago, and in two years she has been to Yoga once.  She's decided again that it would help her with her pain and self image.  Last night, she obsessed about finding a yoga place to go to today.  An hour ago she texted me about how she no longer feels like going.  I replied that she would feel better afterwards.  She decided not to go.  15 minutes later, she sent me a message that she feels disappointed in herself for not going.   

[ColdEthyl]

My guy will drink an entire 2L bottle of pop by himself, in one evening, then wonder why he was up all night peeing!  Then complain about the next evening, as he is sucking back the next bottle.

Male or female, they do seem to all come from the same mold, or is it the same mould?

ROFLMAO! My husband does this crap! They really do come from the same mold rofl

[Crumbling]

I think this is called 'cyclical thinking/behaviours' or something.  I know it's definitely the AA definition of insanity:  :)oing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Before we knew about the BPD, I blamed his alcoholism on this behaviour.  

All I can say, is thank God I don't live in his head!

 

c.

[ColdEthyl]

I think this is called 'cyclical thinking/behaviours' or something.  I know it's definitely the AA definition of insanity:  :)oing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Before we knew about the BPD, I blamed his alcoholism on this behaviour.  

All I can say, is thank God I don't live in his head!

 

c.

I try to remember that when dealing with mine also. It must suck to be that insecure, that angry, that scared, that paranoid, etc etc.