Possessiveness vs Borderline

[Goliath]

Hi!

Can anyone describe the differences between possessiveness and BPD in a relationship?

Thanks!

[Blimblam]

 

Hi!

Can anyone describe the differences between possessiveness and BPD in a relationship?

Thanks!

Perhaps sharing your story might help.

[Pingo]

Welcome Goliath!  My uBPDexh was very possessive.  I think it can be a trait of insecurity and entitlement but not in just pwBPD's though.

[Blimblam]

My ex was possessive about her things and the sanctity of her space.  Every object she had had meaning and a story behind it she was extremely sentimental in that way. So when she gifted or let borrow something of hers it always had a lot of meaning behind it for her. Her identity was very tied into to her attachments and she used that as a source of her independence and her frame of reference.  In that way she gave a lot of herself away to these things as if they possessd her.  Like she was balancing these reference points of her identity against each other to create the space that could form the shape of her identity.  This is not only something my ex would do but for her it just seemed to carry a level of life or death facing the possibility of oblivion more so than it does for most.  In a way though that confrontation with oblivion is to face the deepest parts of oneself and for her it was just under the surface, that part is burried way down deep in most people.

There's sort of a deeper context to identity in that statement and my ex was aware of it and I notticed how considerate and giving she really was. She have so much to these reference points because that's how she was able to define herself.  Everyone does this though to a degree it's just they tend to be much less aware, often blinded by the idea of themself.  For my ex her sense of self was so fragile that she was aware of this process but she gave so much of herself away to these points of reference that she often felt empty.

I was really aware of this process and never took advantage of her and was appreciatve.  I notticed all the small things that's what she loved about me.

[Xidion]

I scratched her car one time and she completely freaked out. She screamed at me telling me how it's the only thing she has ever gotten on her own.  It was a scratch that was easily fixed with a scratch repair kit. From that day on, "I didn't respect her or her things". It was a complete accident.  Also,  she went through my phone constantly and made me cut ties to any female friends.

[whythisgirl]

My ex was possessive about her things and the sanctity of her space.  Every object she had had meaning and a story behind it she was extremely sentimental in that way. So when she gifted or let borrow something of hers it always had a lot of meaning behind it for her. Her identity was very tied into to her attachments and she used that as a source of her independence and her frame of reference.  In that way she gave a lot of herself away to these things as if they possessd her.  Like she was balancing these reference points of her identity against each other to create the space that could form the shape of her identity.  This is not only something my ex would do but for her it just seemed to carry a level of life or death facing the possibility of oblivion more so than it does for most.  In a way though that confrontation with oblivion is to face the deepest parts of oneself and for her it was just under the surface, that part is burried way down deep in most people.

My exBPDbf kept all his memories in a box and on his phone. I found alot of things were sentimental to him such as our bad text messages. He said it showed my passion. He was such a weirdo. After breaking up and being NC, when I came by his houseone day he had the bday car on his dresser and a painting we did on his wall. He asked me to delete all the photos of us but he kept ever single one.

I personally don't like holding on to bad memeries so I deleted all text and most of our pics.

[hergestridge]

My exwife didn't know the value of money (neither her own or anyone elses) and didn't respect property (didn't return things she had borrowed, and forgot about things she had borrowed to others). In the end she ended up in conflicts because she had no concept of mine and yours. She just took things from people, assuming they would be "cool" with it. Possesive is not the right word.

[Blimblam]

My ex was possessive about her things and the sanctity of her space.  Every object she had had meaning and a story behind it she was extremely sentimental in that way. So when she gifted or let borrow something of hers it always had a lot of meaning behind it for her. Her identity was very tied into to her attachments and she used that as a source of her independence and her frame of reference.  In that way she gave a lot of herself away to these things as if they possessd her.  Like she was balancing these reference points of her identity against each other to create the space that could form the shape of her identity.  This is not only something my ex would do but for her it just seemed to carry a level of life or death facing the possibility of oblivion more so than it does for most.  In a way though that confrontation with oblivion is to face the deepest parts of oneself and for her it was just under the surface, that part is burried way down deep in most people.

My exBPDbf kept all his memories in a box and on his phone. I found alot of things were sentimental to him such as our bad text messages. He said it showed my passion. He was such a weirdo. After breaking up and being NC, when I came by his houseone day he had the bday car on his dresser and a painting we did on his wall. He asked me to delete all the photos of us but he kept ever single one.

I personally don't like holding on to bad memeries so I deleted all text and most of our pics.

You see but for a pwBPD it is so much more than sentimentality.  It's like they give the animating force of their self into these objects and actions of giving to create attachments that form a reflection for them to be able to identify themself.  In that way they can be extremely giving and they just want to be appreciated for it.  This also leaves them extremely vulnerable to be taken advantage of.  Often I hear that they are just fake or it's all a mask but it's more like the people they are giving to to be able to create the reference point are fake and they validate that fakeness.

[enlighten me]

I found a lot of it very childlike. Like a kid hoarding their toys and stealing toys from other kids. I want I want I want. But you cant have.

[Pingo]

See I didn't even think of possessiveness in those ways.  I was automatically thinking about him possessing me... .because he did.  He thought he owned me, pretty sure!  He wanted to control every aspect of my life and if he thought another guy was checking me out he would hang onto my hand like I was his and give the guy the look of death.  At first I thought he was being funny until I realised he really did think I was his to own.  Then the struggle began bc I didn't want to be owned.  I started to rebel and he held on even tighter.  This is what ultimately made me leave the r/s.

[enlighten me]

Pingo replace the childrens toy with you. See how that fits in with how you felt.

[Pingo]

Pingo replace the childrens toy with you. See how that fits in with how you felt.

That is exactly how I felt.  At night he clung onto me like no man has before.   I really loved it for most of our r/s.  But near the end I felt like he was smothering me and seeing me as an object... .like a comfort toy such as a Teddy bear.  It made me withdraw.  I just wanted space (and ownership of my own body).

[ucmeicu2]

... .they can be extremely giving and they just want to be appreciated for it.  This also leaves them extremely vulnerable to be taken advantage of.  Often I hear that they are just fake or it's all a mask but it's more like the people they are giving to to be able to create the reference point are fake and they validate that fakeness.

hmmm?  come again? 

[workinprogress]

I scratched her car one time and she completely freaked out. She screamed at me telling me how it's the only thing she has ever gotten on her own.  It was a scratch that was easily fixed with a scratch repair kit. From that day on, "I didn't respect her or her things". It was a complete accident.  Also,  she went through my phone constantly and made me cut ties to any female friends.

I scratched my dad's car once as a teen.  He told me that the "car would never be the same" to him again.

[Blimblam]

... .they can be extremely giving and they just want to be appreciated for it.  This also leaves them extremely vulnerable to be taken advantage of.  Often I hear that they are just fake or it's all a mask but it's more like the people they are giving to to be able to create the reference point are fake and they validate that fakeness.

hmmm?  come again? 

Lol.  This may be hard to face right now.  But a pwBPD give themselves away often in the form of validation. Like I said they project the animating force of their self into attachments or reference points of self.  So they validate the way others portray themselves as.  All of a sudden the way I would like to see myself as I do with the my borderline ex by my side validating me.  In many ways it allowed me access to my potential but it was fueled by the animating force of my ex giving life to this reference point from which I could project onto.  Now depending on what I used that energy of hers for determines my charachter. The reality is it was a combination of narcisism and really pure authenticity.  The thing is the pwBPD and the narcissist is a classic combination because the narcissist requires the validation of others to validate their idealized false self. 

[Blimblam]

I found a lot of it very childlike. Like a kid hoarding their toys and stealing toys from other kids. I want I want I want. But you cant have.

This is an excellent analogy.  if you watch a young child play with their toys you will nottice for the child the toy is more than the object itself.  The child animates the toy breathing life into it as a fantasy. In this way the child becomes very possessive I the Toy because they attach to the toy nurturing aspects of their own self.  They seek to posses and control the toy as a way of having control over theirself.  

A good film to see aspects of what I'm getting at is the film Hook with Robin Williams playing Peter Pan.  

When we project ourself into objects this can have good and bad consequences.  If we project nurturing aspects of the self into an object such as a blanket or teddy bear one may become dependent on the object for soothing.  If one projects that onto a substance such as alchohal or ciggerets that dependency can be called an addiction if it is projected to other people codependency.  If a group projects aspects of the self onto a place it is often considered a sacred site.  Traditional peoples projected the nurturing aspects of the self onto nature and as a result seeked to find ballance and harmony with nature. 

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all

Possessiveness, holy moly yes!

My exBP was extremely possessive right from the start, here's how he tried to wield his power over me.

Set out to destroy any existing friendships I had with any males, (mostly ex work colleagues) that I had known for years before I met BP.

Made constant threats (including death threats) about them.

Any male that looked at me? I was immediately accused of plotting behind BP's back and having an affair with them, yes, even a friendly male shopkeeper at my regular local grocery store. BP stalked him, found out where he lived, and did regular drive by's to make sure I wasn't at the guys house? AS IF?

Any males that were in my workplace? Yea, I was sleeping with them too and paid dearly every time I went to work and returned home.

Humiliated me constantly at my workplace, (a busy shopping centre) if there were any males that even said Hello to me or looked at me without my knowledge.

Subjected me to regular Spanish Inquisitions and verbal abuse, (disgusting derogatory female terms).

Manipulated me into believing I 'deserved it', since I had once been a single woman enjoying my own sexuality. Of course BP joked about his bed count being as high as 100, but that was OK to not know the exact number.

What's mine was his, but what was his was his own, including his money.

Damaged my property whenever he saw fit, like he owned it anyway.

Physically abused me, tried to take my life several times, (once plotting it), financially abused me, sexually abused me, kept me sleep deprived most of the relationship, stole from me, damaged my things on a regular basis and on and on.

Became obsessed with my family, and saw fit to snoop through their property too, including stealing their mail, and poking through their stuff (in my home) when I was at work.

Became obsessed with my life, and saw fit to snoop through my things when I was absent too, including my mail, even my rubbish bins, looking for evidence that we were 'bad people'.

BP put materialistic, fat greedy and selfish into this category, those were his regular terms for describing my family and myself.

Meanwhile, BP stole, took money from myself and his own parents, hasn't worked for almost 7 years, (only just working now because he is in a new relationship), abused myself and his own elderly parents whilst we continually helped him out of a jam.

Yea, I could go on here but I think you get the picture.

[ucmeicu2]

Lol.  This may be hard to face right now... .The thing is the pwBPD and the narcissist is a classic combination because the narcissist requires the validation of others to validate their idealized false self.  

blimblam, it's not hard for me to face if you are a Narcissist (either clinically or self-diagnosed).  (maybe it's hard for you to face it, so you projected that fear and shame onto me?  like the scene from Princess Bride where they're drinking wine w/poison, lol, i mean really, isn't there a point where the concept of "projection"  becomes so convoluted as to be rendered meaningless?).  

i asked "come again?" hoping you would expound and clarify if you were making an "i, blimbam" or a "most of you" or an "all of you" statement when you talked about Narcs and being fake and taking advantage of pwBPD, etc because those are pretty "loaded" things to say on a board designed to detach and move on from a pwBPD.  

i have read articles and seen you tube vids about BPD & narc's.  while it may be a "Classic Combo" it's certainly not the only one.  since all borderlines are narcissistic, i think it's normal for deeply wounded people to come here, read the "BPD & N's are classic combo" articles, and begin to question if they are the N or even in fact the BPD in the R/S.   a lot of us have.  i did it.  in your early times here you did too.  it can be such a confusing time, that's for sure, like sinking in Psychological Quicksand.  

you say borderline waif's are "your type", been in 4 LTR's with them, right?  in your posts, i see (or detect a flavor of) still wanting to protect and defend the pwBPD.  since this board is about detaching, i try not to think/imply/or outright say they're detaching the wrong way, or that they have a one-size-fits-all mental issue.   let them be angry -- anger is good! (initially, anyways, b/c it prompts Action).  besides,  it's indisputable:  to a large degree pwBPD ARE fake (because they have no true "self" they are empty, they are chameleons) and they DO wear masks (because they don't want you to find out they have no inner "self" or to see their toxic levels of shame/anger/fear/rage/etc) -- the literature backs that up but we don't need scientific literature to validate our very own experiences, do we.  we all either jumped in (or allowed ourselves to be sucked into) the vortex known as BPD.  exploring that is not only healthy, but mandatory for recovery.  

myself?   had never been with or even known (to my knowledge) a pwBPD before my pwBPD entered into the 4th decade of my life.  and when she did, i was at a very weakened state in so many ways (ie  financial, social, emotional, spiritual and pwBPD jump on that like white on rice!).  but IOW's i didn't have a lifelong pattern of hooking up with them, it was a once-in-a-lifetime thing for me.   so yeah, many possible scenarios to explain the r/s dynamics of pwBPD & their partners.

they can be extremely giving and they just want to be appreciated for it.  This also leaves them extremely vulnerable to be taken advantage of.  Often I hear that they are just fake or it's all a mask but it's more like the people they are giving to to be able to create the reference point are fake and they validate that fakeness.

[Elpis]

My uBPDh of 38 years finally went to counseling after I left, and he told me that his counselor said that his and my areas of brokenness fit right together. And I see that--I wanted to make him happy, he wanted me to take care of him. We were spoons in a drawer, just kinda bent spoons!

I have Complex PTSD, first from my FOO and now from my marriage because he liked to stir in my old wounds. I allowed that stirring because I didn't see it for what it was, assuming he would treat our marriage relationship the same way I would, and value it in the same way.

There was a LOT of possessiveness in our r/s, both in terms of "stuff" and with me. For instance, he started a project in the front room of our house 9 years ago. In the years between I would ask if we could move the tools to the garage, and he would have a massive tantrum and somehow it would become my fault that he hadn't finished the project, or it was the fault of life circumstances--whatever it was, it was somebody else's fault but I better not touch those tools! And as I would do things to try to improve my living conditions he'd put his stuff in the space I had just emptied, like a dog marking his territory. That's possessiveness.

And when he was most dysregulated and aware that I was unhappy with our relationship he would be really weird about me talking to strangers (something I've always done--I like people, so I chat in grocery stores etc.) We were in the grocery store together (which was weird, he came to "help" me but had the look of doom on his face the whole time) and I was talking to this 30something year old Chinese guy about a particular Chinese recipe while we were getting asparagus. I'm 61. I have children older than this guy. I notice a really uncomfortable look on the kid's face and turn to see my husband standing with the cart and glaring at the guy. After we left the store he was questioning me and accusing me of flirting. GOOD GRIEF! I could be the kid's mother!

So possessiveness can certainly fit into the BPD spectrum quite easily.

[Pingo]

There was a LOT of possessiveness in our r/s, both in terms of "stuff" and with me. For instance, he started a project in the front room of our house 9 years ago. In the years between I would ask if we could move the tools to the garage, and he would have a massive tantrum and somehow it would become my fault that he hadn't finished the project, or it was the fault of life circumstances--whatever it was, it was somebody else's fault but I better not touch those tools! And as I would do things to try to improve my living conditions he'd put his stuff in the space I had just emptied, like a dog marking his territory. That's possessiveness.

Not sure why Elpis, but this here made me angry!  I guess I relate bc I felt my space 'invaded' and my need for some order to my space invalidated throughout both my marriages.  I got similar reactions about my first husbands piles of crap (and he wasn't BPD! just a giant child who always had temper tantrums).  Did he ever finish the project?   I bet you are really appreciating your own space now!

[Elpis]

It's hard to feel like we aren't as valuable to our partner as their things, right? And no, the project has never been finished--though again, that's my fault, I tried to make it seem like a living room as much as I could so there's a bookcase with books in it, and that would have to be moved. OH NO THE SKY IS FALLING!

For years I choked this stuff down because I didn't want to be faced with a tantrum, but those tantrums kept coming anyway! He started to work on our master bedroom which meant our son has an encampment in the un-livable living room and we were in our son's room (that smelled of "boy." My h finally started back on the master bedroom after I left and filled it with Ikea furniture. Oh well.

My surroundings are important to me--I like them to be relatively tidy, have colors that go together and pictures on the walls, all those niceties. I've lived in a largely unfinished house (every room has something unfinished in it) for years, and have had to grieve the dream of having the lovely finished house I wanted. Nothin' fancy even, just pretty. And finished.

I had worked to clear the front yard so I could start working on fixing it up, so my h puts all the old wood that was on our driveway in the front yard. And he doesn't even remember where or why he did that. I do--he was just hiking his leg on the yard.

[Blimblam]

Lol.  This may be hard to face right now... .The thing is the pwBPD and the narcissist is a classic combination because the narcissist requires the validation of others to validate their idealized false self.  

blimblam, it's not hard for me to face if you are a Narcissist (either clinically or self-diagnosed).  (maybe it's hard for you to face it, so you projected that fear and shame onto me?  like the scene from Princess Bride where they're drinking wine w/poison, , i mean really, isn't there a point where the concept of "projection"  becomes so convoluted as to be rendered meaningless?).  

i asked "come again?" hoping you would expound and clarify if you were making an "i, blimbam" or a "most of you" or an "all of you" statement when you talked about Narcs and being fake and taking advantage of pwBPD, etc because those are pretty "loaded" things to say on a board designed to detach and move on from a pwBPD.  

i have read articles and seen you tube vids about BPD & narc's.  while it may be a "Classic Combo" it's certainly not the only one.  since all borderlines are narcissistic, i think it's normal for deeply wounded people to come here, read the "BPD & N's are classic combo" articles, and begin to question if they are the N or even in fact the BPD in the R/S.   a lot of us have.  i did it.  in your early times here you did too.  it can be such a confusing time, that's for sure, like sinking in Psychological Quicksand.  

you say borderline waif's are "your type", been in 4 LTR's with them, right?  in your posts, i see (or detect a flavor of) still wanting to protect and defend the pwBPD.  since this board is about detaching, i try not to think/imply/or outright say they're detaching the wrong way, or that they have a one-size-fits-all mental issue.   let them be angry -- anger is good! (initially, anyways, b/c it prompts Action).  besides,  it's indisputable:  to a large degree pwBPD ARE fake (because they have no true "self" they are empty, they are chameleons) and they DO wear masks (because they don't want you to find out they have no inner "self" or to see their toxic levels of shame/anger/fear/rage/etc) -- the literature backs that up but we don't need scientific literature to validate our very own experiences, do we.  we all either jumped in (or allowed ourselves to be sucked into) the vortex known as BPD.  exploring that is not only healthy, but mandatory for recovery.  

myself?   had never been with or even known (to my knowledge) a pwBPD before my pwBPD entered into the 4th decade of my life.  and when she did, i was at a very weakened state in so many ways (ie  financial, social, emotional, spiritual and pwBPD jump on that like white on rice!).  but IOW's i didn't have a lifelong pattern of hooking up with them, it was a once-in-a-lifetime thing for me.   so yeah, many possible scenarios to explain the r/s dynamics of pwBPD & their partners.

they can be extremely giving and they just want to be appreciated for it.  This also leaves them extremely vulnerable to be taken advantage of.  Often I hear that they are just fake or it's all a mask but it's more like the people they are giving to to be able to create the reference point are fake and they validate that fakeness.

I am not a NPD by any Stretch. The thing is everyone has a touch of narcisissm.  Really though it's not about if you or I are narcissists.  It's about what pwBPD do they become what others want them to be.  In that way they appeal to a persons narcissism, it just is. Like I said it depends on what the person does with that energy that determines their character.  The reason I think most of stayed when we began to be devalued is because of our own narcisissm. People tend to think of malignant narcissism when the word narcissism pops up but that is just one flavor. 

After studying about the underlying aspects of some of these disorders and the mechanics of the behaviors it becomes pretty clear they engage in a process that everyone does to a degree.

[Elpis]

My reasons for staying nearly 4 decades were more motivated by my wonderfully enabling and codependent self rather than narcissism I think! I wanted my uBPDh to be happy, and I kept thinking I could make him happy but I couldn't. i'm the people-pleaser type and that worked in tandem with his BPD.

I agree that narcissism has a negative connotation, Blimblam. By narcissism do you simply mean our belief that others think like we do?

[Blimblam]

My reasons for staying nearly 4 decades were more motivated by my wonderfully enabling and codependent self rather than narcissism I think! I wanted my uBPDh to be happy, and I kept thinking I could make him happy but I couldn't. i'm the people-pleaser type and that worked in tandem with his BPD.

I agree that narcissism has a negative connotation, Blimblam. By narcissism do you simply mean our belief that others think like we do?

Well in the context which I was speaking it was how through denial and cognitive dissonance compartmentalized my self so I could avoid feeling all my feelings that went with being devalued and remain in the relationship holding on to the image of the rs in it's idealized state.

I utilized the same sort of process that goes into creating the NPDs idealized false self.  It was a narcisistic process inverted to enable myself to remain in the rs and enabled my ex to cross my boundaries.  That same energy can be extraverted to paint my ex black  but all in the vein of protecting my self from feeling what's really there underneath.

[downwhim]

"My exBPDbf kept all his memories in a box and on his phone. I found alot of things were sentimental to him such as our bad text messages. He said it showed my passion. He was such a weirdo. After breaking up and being NC, when I came by his houseone day he had the bday car on his dresser and a painting we did on his wall. He asked me to delete all the photos of us but he kept ever single one.

I personally don't like holding on to bad memeries so I deleted all text and most of our pics."

Mine did the same thing. He kept everything in a box. Cards, love letters, items I had left at his house I told him to throw out. He gave my slippers to his daughter and I took them back when we got back together.

Everything he owns is his "possession." He values it if it is his! Let's say it is a coffee mug. He values that just like an expensive sweater. If it is his then it is important, should be treated well... .etc. Weird.

[Elpis]

Well in the context which I was speaking it was how through denial and cognitive dissonance compartmentalized my self so I could avoid feeling all my feelings that went with being devalued and remain in the relationship holding on to the image of the rs in it's idealized state.

... .  but all in the vein of protecting my self from feeling what's really there underneath.

OY! My life!

Mine did the same thing. He kept everything in a box. Cards, love letters, items I had left at his house I told him to throw out. He gave my slippers to his daughter and I took them back when we got back together.

Everything he owns is his "possession." He values it if it is his! Let's say it is a coffee mug. He values that just like an expensive sweater. If it is his then it is important, should be treated well... .etc. Weird.

So interesting. When I got my uNPD mom's belongings after she died, she had one of those expanding folder thingies that said "Treasures" on the outside. It contained everything from the ID bracelet my brother had in the hospital at birth to photos of the destruction my father did in a drunken blackout. "Treasures" are certainly different from one person to the next.

I do over-sentimentalize objects that remind me of a happy moment.