went to custody hearing today

[david]

This time I was actually sitting in the courtroom. Both attys went in chambers. Took about 15 minutes. The judge did not want the hearing today ? The problem seems to be that if I get the extra time outside of a temp order ex will owe me child support and I believe the judge wants to make sure that is not the reason. My atty seemed to think the judge was pretty clear about it. He continued our temp order with me having the additional time. S16 went from A,B,C, and D last year to 5 A's this year. Judge wants to see what happens for the rest of the year. Judge also wants co parent counseling to continue during this time.

I felt like I had to agree. I am getting the extra time so that is the positive. I believe co parent counseling, after three meetings, is a waste of time. I get accused of abuse , micromanaging  blah blah blah... .

My atty said that he was not going to charge me for the hour meeting last week to prepare and the hours he put in for this hearing so it didn't cost me any money. Five hours at 400 per is nothing to sneeze at.

My atty asked me about a few things that ex's atty said in chambers. They were lies and I told him so. He asked if I could prove it and I said yes. I have emails from ex saying the complete opposite.

[Nope]

*Sigh*

Because heaven forbid a mother have to pay child support if that can at all be avoided.   

The thing is, the judge shouldn't make the presumption that you would have to be granted more time on a permanent basis without actually hearing the case, and then avoid hearing the case because of it. (Sorry, I'm irritated about this outcome on your behalf.) But, at least you are getting the extra time. So the needs of the children are being met.

[david]

I filed in August 2012 and still haven't been heard so I am irritated to say the least. I have copies of every homework of our now S11. Last two years he did over 90% of all his school work when with me. This year it went down to 84% but only 3 were done at moms that were complete and correct. He actually has had arguments with her because she gives him answers that are wrong and insists he put those answers down on his homework.  It's not going to change much from now until the end of the year. Ex is also trying to get S11 diagnosed with a learning disability. She did that when he was in kindergarten and it was changed in third grade. She needs to blame him for his failures in school and wants it changed back. The thing is he is has great grades. I feel bad for him because of the mixed signals he gets from his mom. He is too young to have to deal with that.

[livednlearned]

Of all the things that court orders, coparenting counseling is the one that irritates me most! What a downer that you have to continue. What does that have to do with your kids doing their homework? No other court mandates counseling for its plaintiffs and defendants. Gah! Shakes fist.

But great that your L was reasonable about not charging you. Small consolation, but like you said, at $400/hour that matters.

I think the child support thing is not necessarily about moms paying child support, it's about making sure that you are motivated by the right reasons (doing what is best for the kids) than it is about dodging child support. Judges hate to see parents being motivated to rearrange visitation for financial reasons (understandably).

[momtara]

That sounds good.  The coparenting counseling isn't a waste because you'll have another witness.  Unless the counselor is a moron.

I think this is a big win.  You are going to continue the extra time.  The grades are fabulous.  I think very few parents in normal situations can get their kids to get all A's.  Way to go!

[david]

We went to three counseling meetings already. I am very certain he "got" ex had some kind of issue. Ex went off about me trying to micro manage her house and immediately went into telling me what I should be doing at my house. Those kind of things used to be interesting to observe but I am tired of listening to it anymore.

We have a meeting this Monday. I am thinking of laying down a boundary. If ex tells three lies I am getting up and leaving. My position is the court can not order me to go somewhere to be abused by such nonsense.

The last meeting the counselor was talking to ex about how to parent in her place. He talked to her about scheduling homework and consequences. He gave several examples on how to do it. I just sat there and watched and listened. I noticed ex was focused in to what he was saying and looked positive. I realized later that the journal she left in our house back in 2007 has two pages from 1989 explaining how she was going to a therapist to figure ways to parent. There were examples written down and mention of consequences. It's all in ex's handwriting. That is 15 years ago and she is still having the same issues as before ! IT AIN'T GONNA CHANGE. I hear that Talking Heads song "same as it ever was, same as it ever was... .

[livednlearned]

We went to three counseling meetings already. I am very certain he "got" ex had some kind of issue. Ex went off about me trying to micro manage her house and immediately went into telling me what I should be doing at my house. Those kind of things used to be interesting to observe but I am tired of listening to it anymore.

We have a meeting this Monday. I am thinking of laying down a boundary. If ex tells three lies I am getting up and leaving. My position is the court can not order me to go somewhere to be abused by such nonsense.

The last meeting the counselor was talking to ex about how to parent in her place. He talked to her about scheduling homework and consequences. He gave several examples on how to do it. I just sat there and watched and listened. I noticed ex was focused in to what he was saying and looked positive. I realized later that the journal she left in our house back in 2007 has two pages from 1989 explaining how she was going to a therapist to figure ways to parent. There were examples written down and mention of consequences. It's all in ex's handwriting. That is 15 years ago and she is still having the same issues as before ! IT AIN'T GONNA CHANGE. I hear that Talking Heads song "same as it ever was, same as it ever was... .

I ended up canceling my coparenting counseling too. Instead of just getting up and leaving, which might make it look like you are flipping the middle finger to the court order, what about starting the session with your boundary: "I am willing to do this under the condition that I do not have to listen to lies about me. If lies are told, I plan to get up and leave. I'll bring proof of those lies to the next meeting and we can discuss why lying has a negative impact on coparenting and sets a bad example for the kids."

In other words, give your ex a heads up that you have a plan for dealing with her lies. If you hear her tell a lie, ask her if she has any way to prove that it's true, and then jump up and say that you have something to show the opposite of what she is claiming.

If you are accused of walking out of the coparenting sessions during your upcoming hearing, you can explain that you gave the counselor reasonable conditions for your participation, and continued to come back as long as ex did not tell lies.

[david]

lnl that sounds like a good plan. I am fairly certain that the counselor does see that ex is the problem and he did talk to ex about boundaries so I think me setting a reasonable boundary is a good course of action.

I like how you said how the kids are being effected.

[momtara]

My thought was the same as LnL.  Leaving doesn't look good for you.  It looks like you were afraid of something.  I think setting a boundary ahead of time is better.  Or calmly countering a lie.

[scraps66]

I've found the coparent counseling at this late stage in the game, after four years of a standing order and with ex meddling, to be a waste of time AND like rubbing sea salt in an open wound.  A painful reminder that ex has gotten away with murder and has serious issues.  Neither of which have been seen by the court.  My fear is the same, court will say to keep going.

[livednlearned]

My thought was the same as LnL.  Leaving doesn't look good for you.  It looks like you were afraid of something.  I think setting a boundary ahead of time is better.  Or calmly countering a lie.

Yeah, I think the calm part is key. All business, no emotion. "Ex, what you said is not true. I plan to bring several emails to our next meeting to demonstrate how this is not true, and we can discuss it then. If we can use our time here to discuss real issues and facts, I think this counseling could be productive. But until the lies are sorted out, this is not an effective use of time or money. See you next week."

I kinda wish I could watch 

[david]

Ex sent an email today letting me know that all this was my fault because she remembers telling me that if I took her to court she would have to follow the court order strictly ? These are the kind of things that make me wonder what the H*** is going on when the boys are over there. Momtara I know you are hearing this loud and clear.

I have been calling her residence for the last two days trying to talk to the boys. Well, S16 downloaded an app from google that lets him call my cell. Apparently the house phone is missing again. I can't use my cell to call his computer because it is only one way.

[livednlearned]

Ex sent an email today letting me know that all this was my fault because she remembers telling me that if I took her to court she would have to follow the court order strictly ? These are the kind of things that make me wonder what the H*** is going on when the boys are over there. Momtara I know you are hearing this loud and clear.

I have been calling her residence for the last two days trying to talk to the boys. Well, S16 downloaded an app from google that lets him call my cell. Apparently the house phone is missing again. I can't use my cell to call his computer because it is only one way.

What about setting up a free Google voice account? It will assign you a phone number, and you can actually text directly from that Google voice number via your computer to another computer, or to a mobile phone. I can't remember exactly, but I think if your son set one up, you can arrange so that he gets notifications on his computer when you're trying to reach him. Pop up notifications that show up on his desktop, even if he does not use Google mail, etc. You don't use the Google voice number to replace your cell number, it's just a backup.

So you basically use your computer to call either his computer or, if he had a cell phone, you could communicate with his cell. Not sure that solves the real problem, which is ex trying to stop you from communicating with the boys, but it's a workaround if they are on their computers. You can also sync the Google voice number to work from your phone, but then it gets into the hassle of using minutes from your cell provider, etc.

Also, about your ex. Isn't she the one who asked for the coparenting counseling? If I remember correctly.

[david]

I did not ask for the counselor so I assume she did.

The phone issue I have come to accept for the time being. We still haven't gone in front of a judge and the documentation of my calls never going through is another piece of the puzzle. Whenever ex calls the boys when they are with me she gets to talk to them.

[Nope]

Phone games are very common around here. At the ages the boys are it really should be a non-issue. My DH used to have it in the parenting plan that he was to have regular c phone ontact with the kids and that they could call whenever they wanted. The minimum contact allowed in the plan was one phone call per week at a specific day and time. So DH spent three years getting only at most the bare minimum one call per week. Now that we have cusody the court order gives her a bare minimum of three calls per week and she's allowed to text them daily. If when you go to court and you ask for mandated phone calls be prepared that this means both parties will likely have to comply. In my case it's not that. We want to keep them from their mother, but since she's completely inflexible about call times and we have the kids 90% of the time it's a huge pain.

But back to my original point: she's hiding the house phone from a 16 year old?

[david]

Yes she hides the phone. Feb of 2014 the phone disappeared for 5 weeks. That was the longest stretch. They call me every day when they are with her but don't call her when they are with me. She complained about it Jan 2014. I replied that I always give my cell to the boys whenever they ask. I also have a land line they can use.

I gave my atty my phone records with all the calls that were made from the start of school (Sept 2013) to March 2014. I send emails whenever I can't talk to them for a week or more. I suspect my email is engagement for her.

[Nope]

Yes she hides the phone. Feb of 2014 the phone disappeared for 5 weeks. That was the longest stretch. They call me every day when they are with her but don't call her when they are with me. She complained about it Jan 2014. I replied that I always give my cell to the boys whenever they ask. I also have a land line they can use.

I gave my atty my phone records with all the calls that were made from the start of school (Sept 2013) to March 2014. I send emails whenever I can't talk to them for a week or more. I suspect my email is engagement for her.

Do you mind if I ask what the kids think of this? I really think this should come up in co-parent counseling if it hasn't already.

There are at least half a dozen messaging apps that would help you stay in touch with someone who is on a computer. I also think sending her emails is engagement. At the same time though, it's also documentation.

[PinkieV]

My SS19 used an online video game for contact when BM took his phone away. If your kids are gamers, you might ask them about it.   

[whirlpoollife]

I've found the coparent counseling at this late stage in the game, after four years of a standing order and with ex meddling, to be a waste of time AND like rubbing sea salt in an open wound.  A painful reminder that ex has gotten away with murder and has serious issues.  Neither of which have been seen by the court.  My fear is the same, court will say to keep going.

This is my view of your coparent counseling too. It is not  going  to change for the better the pwPD.

As for phone use, my x2bh can call three times a day.  ( down from unlimited , "reasonable times"  ... 2hrs, down from four x's a day). He uses all the allotments.   Even on the days that the kids are going to/ coming from his place. The  times have limits  but it is I who has to moniter each time.  Last week, D had a friend over, so when he called he stayed right in the time limit.  Then one night D and I are watching a movie, he calls, movie on pause... .he wouldn't get off the phone even when D said bye many times. This is so blantent that the call was used to irritate me.

Just last time when D was at her dads, she texted to see if I can call. I did but then she did not answer.  

Later I call and she sees the cell phone light up . She says to me that she does not remember turning the volume down on her phone. She repeats it puzzled by it.  I did not mention that her dad did that. But I said you are not the one who turned the volume down.   I document this all too, to give to my L , for the record , so he sees the pattern of behavior.  To use in my defense later... .

[Matt]

We have a meeting this Monday. I am thinking of laying down a boundary. If ex tells three lies I am getting up and leaving. My position is the court can not order me to go somewhere to be abused by such nonsense.

Let me suggest - based on my own experience - a lot of trial and error - an approach to this.

First, bring a notebook, and when Ex is talking, write down anything she says which isn't true or is misleading or unfair.  Write it down as close to word-for-word as you can.  That helped me to patiently listen and not interrupt, and it also gave me a good record of any lies or accusations.

Then when it's your turn, no matter what the topic has become, or what question the therapist has asked you, go back to what your ex said that wasn't true.  If the therapist says, ":)avid, how are things going for you?", you say, "I'll get to that in a minute, but first I need to address something Ms. David said just now."  Referring to your notes:  "She said, 'Last Friday David did X.'  I want to make it clear that I have never done X, and that Ms. David was not with me last Friday so she has no way to know what I did, and that she is making that accusation here in front of you, without any evidence to back it up.  I am not here to listen to accusations and false statements - that's not the purpose of this session.  So if there are more accusations or false statements, I will end this session and let my attorney know exactly what happened so she can take the appropriate actions such as informing the court what went on here tody."  Then stop and look at the therapist - not at your ex.

Looking at the therapist communicates that it is his job to keep order and make the session productive.  By allowing your ex to make false statements and accusations, he isn't doing his job.  (But of course it must be a pretty difficult job... .)

By making that statement, and then stopping, you are focusing the conversation on what you said - the boundary you laid down - "If X happens then I will do Y."

If the therapist is good, he will take up your challenge, and apply that ground rule both ways - nobody make accusations or false statements.  If he's not, and he lets her continue - and I personally wouldn't give her three strikes - then he's not doing his job, and you end the session and let him know that in the future you will be glad to meet again if there are ground rules but you won't sit there and be accused of things you didn't do.

Your lawyer might not like this, by the way, but it might elevate your ex's behavior issues in a useful way.  You will definitely want to inform your attorney exactly what happened so she doesn't find out from somebody else and think you acted rashly.  (Or you could even let her know ahead of time what you are going to do.)

[Matt]

We went to three counseling meetings already. I am very certain he "got" ex had some kind of issue. Ex went off about me trying to micro manage her house and immediately went into telling me what I should be doing at my house. Those kind of things used to be interesting to observe but I am tired of listening to it anymore.

We have a meeting this Monday. I am thinking of laying down a boundary. If ex tells three lies I am getting up and leaving. My position is the court can not order me to go somewhere to be abused by such nonsense.

The last meeting the counselor was talking to ex about how to parent in her place. He talked to her about scheduling homework and consequences. He gave several examples on how to do it. I just sat there and watched and listened. I noticed ex was focused in to what he was saying and looked positive. I realized later that the journal she left in our house back in 2007 has two pages from 1989 explaining how she was going to a therapist to figure ways to parent. There were examples written down and mention of consequences. It's all in ex's handwriting. That is 15 years ago and she is still having the same issues as before ! IT AIN'T GONNA CHANGE. I hear that Talking Heads song "same as it ever was, same as it ever was... .

I ended up canceling my coparenting counseling too. Instead of just getting up and leaving, which might make it look like you are flipping the middle finger to the court order, what about starting the session with your boundary: "I am willing to do this under the condition that I do not have to listen to lies about me. If lies are told, I plan to get up and leave. I'll bring proof of those lies to the next meeting and we can discuss why lying has a negative impact on coparenting and sets a bad example for the kids."

In other words, give your ex a heads up that you have a plan for dealing with her lies. If you hear her tell a lie, ask her if she has any way to prove that it's true, and then jump up and say that you have something to show the opposite of what she is claiming.

If you are accused of walking out of the coparenting sessions during your upcoming hearing, you can explain that you gave the counselor reasonable conditions for your participation, and continued to come back as long as ex did not tell lies.

A slightly different take on the same idea.

(Great minds think alike.)

[scraps66]

I have been hypothetically devising ways of getting out of my coparent counseling.  But there has been some good, I have been able to address issues in front of the counselor that have to do with treatment for our S10 who is/was ODD/Asperger's and now conduct disorder diagnosed.  Ex claims to be his "advocate" and routinely finds fault with how school addresses his incidents claiming that "S10 is no being dealt with fairly," by school.  I advocate for school and S10 to get help.  Ex continues to find ways of putting up roadblocks.

But, I have also been working with a Behavioral Support Consultant (BSC) through S10's IEP and Wraparound Services.  Very quickly after we got the BSC, ex avoided all contact.  It was as soon as ex realized she would not be running the show and she had to listen.  So I have been working with the BSC for about 8 months, behind the scenes, so ex could not interfere and S10 could get some extra support at school.  BSC has confided in me on many occasions the concerns with ex.  Recently she went further and asked me, "do you know what borderline personality is?"  I of course said yes.  BSC would go further telling me that she had much experience with BPD and that she saw this in her first meeting with ex.  

With the counseling, and I can also reflect on this through numerous couple's counseling sessions, it is only ethical that the therapist continue with boundaries/issues that the clients bring up.  Meaning, it would be unethical for the counselor to address ex as having issues, at least not directly, but me/you as the ex spouse have to bring these issues up in front of the Dr. rather than the Dr. bringing them up on his own.  My BSC had told me this, that maybe the Dr. is waiting for me to stand up and say what exactly is wrong, even including that Ex has an undiagnosed mental illness and that makes it difficult if not impossible to coparent with, and that this is having adverse emotional impact on S10.  Until now, no one (other than ex's mother who admitted the grandmother was BPD) has mentioned borderline personality to me.  

So I'm wondering if your sessions should be even more direct and open about boundaries, etc?  Realistically the boundaries discussed with the coparent counselor and in front of ex may have little benefit.  But, if there is a report issued back to the court you will have at least put everything out in the open free for being documented back to court.  

This is some of my thinking for my next session.      

[Matt]

Ex sent an email today letting me know that all this was my fault because she remembers telling me that if I took her to court she would have to follow the court order strictly ? These are the kind of things that make me wonder what the H*** is going on when the boys are over there. Momtara I know you are hearing this loud and clear.

I have been calling her residence for the last two days trying to talk to the boys. Well, S16 downloaded an app from google that lets him call my cell. Apparently the house phone is missing again. I can't use my cell to call his computer because it is only one way.

When we separated, and I knew that the kids (then 8 and 10) would be in their BPD mom's care at times, I gave them both phones for Christmas.  (We separated suddenly and unexpectedly a week before Christmas.)

I put the phones on my plan and gave them as Christmas presents, partly because I knew the kids would be thrilled, and also because I thought that would reduce the risk that their mom would take them away.  It worked.

Starting on that day, my kids know they can call me any time, and if I call them I expect them to pick up.  They are free to call their mom too, and she calls them when they're with me (a little more often than I wish, but oh well).

[Panda39]

My SS19 used an online video game for contact when BM took his phone away. If your kids are gamers, you might ask them about it.   

That's thinking out of the box and a great idea 

[Matt]

My SS19 used an online video game for contact when BM took his phone away. If your kids are gamers, you might ask them about it.  

That's thinking out of the box and a great idea  

Yeah, there are a bunch of ways to communicate - text, e-mails, Facebook messages - I think phone has advantages because it's more intimate - but maybe the best strategy is to get as many ways of communicating in place as possible, so any attempt to keep the kids from talking with you is difficult.

I have one kid who usually calls, one who mostly uses texts, one who uses Facebook's message application, and one I write letters to (yeah, really, on paper and sending it through the mail).  All fine - the key is to communicate.

I've noticed that quite a few of our members lose this battle - or maybe I should say, decide not to win - early in the process - quite often men when the kids spend most of their time with Mom.  If Mom tries to dictate when the kids can talk to their absent dad, she gets her way, and Dad gives up the moral high ground and hopes things will get better later.

I think that's a bad strategic choice - and again, it often happens early, when Dad is reeling from the craziness and hoping to make peace.  Unfortunately it often leads to alienation between the kids and Dad (or in some cases it's the other way around - BPD Dad is blocking contact with Mom).

I haven't had to involve the court in this much - in our settlement it said something very simple about both parents encouraging the kids to talk to the other.  I think my gut decision early on to maintain daily contact with the kids was important... .

[livednlearned]

BSC has confided in me on many occasions the concerns with ex.  Recently she went further and asked me, "do you know what borderline personality is?"  I of course said yes.  BSC would go further telling me that she had much experience with BPD and that she saw this in her first meeting with ex.

Wow! That's great, Scraps. I remember you posting about the problems with your ex and trying to get services from the school, but hadn't seen an update in a while. It sounds like things are going well. Just having a positive advocate involved can make such a big difference (Sorry, david, for the slight hijack here... .)

With the counseling, and I can also reflect on this through numerous couple's counseling sessions, it is only ethical that the therapist continue with boundaries/issues that the clients bring up.  Meaning, it would be unethical for the counselor to address ex as having issues, at least not directly, but me/you as the ex spouse have to bring these issues up in front of the Dr. rather than the Dr. bringing them up on his own.  My BSC had told me this, that maybe the Dr. is waiting for me to stand up and say what exactly is wrong, even including that Ex has an undiagnosed mental illness and that makes it difficult if not impossible to coparent with, and that this is having adverse emotional impact on S10.  Until now, no one (other than ex's mother who admitted the grandmother was BPD) has mentioned borderline personality to me.  

I also think it's ok to contact the coparenting counselor separately, unless there is something in the contract that says otherwise. You have to make sure you aren't triangulating, though, because that will just make you look bad. After my coparenting counselor debacle, I eventually ended up with a parenting coordinator, and kept things strictly professional with her for the first few months, but when I became worried about N/BPDx behaviors that could negatively impact S13, I called her directly. She seemed to be almost waiting for it and wasted no time agreeing with me that she had concerns too. She pointed out that most of her parenting order contracts were 2 years long, but I had changed mine to only a year long. I told her that no offense to her skills or training, because I knew she was excellent, but I did not think N/BPDx could switch gears and cooperate with me, and did not foresee us having a PC for 2 years because it would not make things better. I used "emotional dysregulation" and "black and white thinking" and "walking on eggshells" as terms that said everything I wanted to say, and she was the one who brought up the words personality disorder. I asked her if she had any recommendations for how to continue, and her response was to keep doing exactly what I was doing. So I did. And she ended up becoming the key testimony for the long slow process toward full custody.

So I'm wondering if your sessions should be even more direct and open about boundaries, etc?  Realistically the boundaries discussed with the coparent counselor and in front of ex may have little benefit.  But, if there is a report issued back to the court you will have at least put everything out in the open free for being documented back to court.      

I was wondering the same thing.  But Scrapps, don't you find it hard to stay emotionally grounded in coparenting counseling? My ex was so smooth and charismatic and had a special talent for throwing me off balance. I would find it easy to say the first sentence, but once N/BPDx started to counter my comment, it would be difficult to stay grounded.

[Matt]

I was wondering the same thing.  But Scrapps, don't you find it hard to stay emotionally grounded in coparenting counseling? My ex was so smooth and charismatic and had a special talent for throwing me off balance. I would find it easy to say the first sentence, but once N/BPDx started to counter my comment, it would be difficult to stay grounded.

One more advantage of note-taking:  It helps me discipline myself, and listen to exactly what the other party is saying, without interrupting.

I think it also shows both the other party and the mediator that what happens is being recorded.  Although these sessions may be confidential, and it's usually best to respect that, that doesn't make it OK to make false statements and accusations.  If everyone understands that what is said is being recorded - or at least any accusations that are made are being written down - that may help everyone involved - including the mediator - to up their game.

[livednlearned]

I was wondering the same thing.  But Scrapps, don't you find it hard to stay emotionally grounded in coparenting counseling? My ex was so smooth and charismatic and had a special talent for throwing me off balance. I would find it easy to say the first sentence, but once N/BPDx started to counter my comment, it would be difficult to stay grounded.

One more advantage of note-taking:  It helps me discipline myself, and listen to exactly what the other party is saying, without interrupting.

I think it also shows both the other party and the mediator that what happens is being recorded.  Although these sessions may be confidential, and it's usually best to respect that, that doesn't make it OK to make false statements and accusations.  

I think coparenting counselers often makes clients sign forms waiving confidentiality. And many CP counselors are part of the whole therapeutic jurisprudence machine, meaning they are trained in forensic psychology and how things work in court. Mine had a whole clause about how much she charged for testifying in court    I think they know going into this racket that the odds of them being subpoenaed are pretty high.

[Matt]

I was wondering the same thing.  But Scrapps, don't you find it hard to stay emotionally grounded in coparenting counseling? My ex was so smooth and charismatic and had a special talent for throwing me off balance. I would find it easy to say the first sentence, but once N/BPDx started to counter my comment, it would be difficult to stay grounded.

One more advantage of note-taking:  It helps me discipline myself, and listen to exactly what the other party is saying, without interrupting.

I think it also shows both the other party and the mediator that what happens is being recorded.  Although these sessions may be confidential, and it's usually best to respect that, that doesn't make it OK to make false statements and accusations.  

I think coparenting counselers often makes clients sign forms waiving confidentiality. And many CP counselors are part of the whole therapeutic jurisprudence machine, meaning they are trained in forensic psychology and how things work in court. Mine had a whole clause about how much she charged for testifying in court    I think they know going into this racket that the odds of them being subpoenaed are pretty high.

Yeah - one of the mediators we used made it clear that the only result possible was a settlement we both signed - nothing else could come out of the process that could be used in court, and she couldn't be subpoenaed.

Still, I was glad I had a written record of the accusations my wife made during those sessions, because they helped me to prepare for other steps in the process.  For example, when my wife was deposed - questioned under oath - my lawyer asked her several questions based on what she had said in mediation.  My lawyer didn't say, "In mediation you said... .", she just said, ":)id Mr. Matt do X?", because in mediation my wife had accused me of X.

That forced my wife to either back down from those accusations, or lie under oath.  If she lied under oath (as she did) then we could find evidence and, and if we went to trial, prove that she had made false statements under oath - a crime.  It forced her to settle before trial rather than risk that.

Getting the lies and accusations down on paper - even if it's your own notes and not something that can be used in court - is a good strategy I think.

[livednlearned]

Getting the lies and accusations down on paper - even if it's your own notes and not something that can be used in court - is a good strategy I think.

It's the analog version of holding up a video camera.

It might also work proactively, you never know. Maybe she won't tell lies. Another Christmas miracle!