I cracked & told his married mistress's husband

[Siamese Rescue]

I have been involved with my uBPDbf for eight and a half years. Push pull, hot cold, he loves me he hates me, etc.  We broke up in 2013 for three months after he discovered that I hired a detective to watch him because I knew he was involved again with his ex-girlfriend. I managed no contact for three months. After the initial break up it was about two weeks that he started calling a family member asking about me. I ignored one text message he sent about a month into it. Finally I took him back a few months after that. But it was a disaster as he really never came back, but rather brought me back into the mix to juggle me with her and hide our relationship again. Still he paid for us to go to counseling each week but lied to the counselor.  Not until January of this year did his ex call me and tell me they were still sexually active. I insisted he go to our counselor and admit he had been lying throughout the entire Fall and I wasn't crazy or making things up in my mind as he always stated. Finally, his ex did move on with her life and she got a boyfriend. Unfortunately I was diagnosed with cancer a week later. I've been through chemotherapy and large amounts of radiation this year and it's been horrible.

So, this summer '14, I noticed he was up and down more than usual. By August I could tell he was cheating.  This time it's a new married woman. On Sept. 4th I found her coming out of his condo. I confronted her and she crumbled saying it was a mistake she was there and that they didn't have sex. She asked me if we could talk because she was very scared when I informed her that I knew her husband. She was worried about her teenage sons from her first marriage as their school was paid for by her current husband. I made a deal with her that I wouldn't tell her husband as long as she was truthful with me. She said she had been with my boyfriend three times and it was limited to some kissing and foreplay, she had touched his genitals. She admitted she went there on that particular night to finally have sex with him but he turned out to be very moody and "weird" and she got angry and left (which is when I was waiting outside as he hadn't answered the phone when I called)

Following a long discussion she said she wanted no part of it all. She disarmed me and was sweet as pie. She asked for my phone number and asked if we could continue discussion the next day as she had to get home. Insisted on giving me a hug. I went to my boyfriend's condo and we hashed it out and it was a blood bath. The next day, she took his call, but not mine. He said she wasn't coming back to train with him at his gym (he's a personal trainer)

Since Sept. my bf has maintained that he had no contact with her.

He and I have been enjoying a fairly good stretch - I was away out of state for cancer treatment but he came to visit me for a weekend and after I returned home, he was really making efforts to spend more quality time together (but not as much sex) I was hopeful. I have been home for almost two months and he's really been trying very hard to be attentive and loving. Still, there was a nagging suspicion I had. This past Sunday, after we did have sex and we were very close I told him I wanted to make the relationship more solid and I didn't think it was right for him to maintain this woman on his friend list on Facebook.  He was agitated and said no that he didn't want to rock the boat and she had just referred a new client to him. We argued badly over this. Later we had yet another heated fight. He was adamant he had no contact with her for months.

The next day he and I didn't talk to each other….The following day I called and was crying and apologized for being so verbally assaultive during our arguments. Three hours later this woman posts on his Facebook page that she is so HAPPY because in two weeks she's going to start training again with him …and he already clicked that he liked it. I called him and told him he was a lying pig and how dare he lie to my face and deny contact with her. He claimed she called the day before when we weren't talking and asked to start back up and he agreed. He told me i was overreacting because it was going to be professional. I told him I was contacting her husband and he said, "do whatever you gotta do."  I cracked. I snapped.

I called her husband who is a doctor at the hospital. I told him I thought his wife was having an affair with my boyfriend. He arranged for us to meet the next morning. I was very articulate and composed and shared with him what I knew and what happened three months earlier…Her husband admitted he thought his wife's relationship with my boyfriend was odd and he had researched my boyfriend by the time we met as he was on call all night and had no sleep. He knew about my boyfriend's financial judgements against him, his criminal charges, etc. He said he thought the guy was sleazy. He told me he thought I should get away from my boyfriend. I explained that I truly loved him. The husband confirmed that his wife has been training with my boyfriend straight through up until a few weeks ago when she had surgery... So, my boyfriend has been lying all along and training her and doing god knows what else.

He and I left and he went home to confront his wife. He asked if I would be around later to back up what I was saying. Sure no problem.

I called my boyfriend and told him I met with her husband and he was outraged. I then got a call that the husband had the wife in his car and she was denying it. Denying all of it. I met them on a parking lot and he asked me what she said when she got in the car that night in September. I reiterated exactly what I told him and he said "You're a liar! I just got off the phone with your boyfriend and you need mental help, I hope you get it. Don't ever bother me or my family again."

So, his wife denied it and lied, my boyfriend denied it and lied. The husband believed them. Of course my boyfriend will barely speak to me. Yet the few times he and I have talked he keeps mentioning that I will have no problem finding a new mate. He asked if I was seeing someone already. Umm, NO.

Despite all that I have shared, the length of this story, I am still in love with this man, this jerk. He blocked me on Facebook. He refuses to acknowledge that his lying about this woman is the root cause of my suspicious feelings and my desperate actions.

Finally, my question is …do you think this can ever be saved? Do you think I can ever mend this? Despite the husband calling me a liar, something I said must have resonated with him because my boyfriend said she's not allowed to train with him anymore.

I fully understand how crazy all of this is, but is there anything I can do to remedy this? As angry as my boyfriend is, he will begrudgingly take my calls. I am angry with him that he lied and I believe he has a sexual relationship with this woman. She is totally smitten with my boyfriend. I'm also blaming myself for blowing up my life…into shreds.

Any advice?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[patientandclear]

SR,  .  And,  .

I'm afraid this pattern has established for this man that there is nothing he can do that will cause you to leave the relationship. He isn't going to lose you no matter what happens.

Is that true?  Is that the message you want to send?  If so, you can probably expect more of the same.  He knows this hurts you and yet you continue to participate.

You can accept what he does and stay--that's a matter of your personal values.  What won't work is to go back to him repeatedly when he violates what sounded like your boundaries and then expect that he will change that behavior.

[Siamese Rescue]

I appreciate your response. I'm trying to think about the questions you asked so I can answer them sincerely. I don't know that I've ever established boundaries. I don't know that I've ever walked away from him for the years of cheating because it was always with the same woman and the excuse was always that she owned half of his business and she could destroy him and simultaneously I had her saying that she was the one who initiated it and pursued him. (not that that makes it any better) He always gave me the impression he "had to deal with her" while he gave me the better parts of him and his time - he was giving me his best and trying to get out from under her control. She finally got a boyfriend, so I thought we were going to have a chance, even though I was severely damaged and hurt by all of his betrayal and lying.

This latest affair came by surprise and I didn't feel like i was up for the fight again. I mean, I just got treated for stage III cancer.

To get to the point, I don't think I've ever established rules, other than don't cheat on me and you're right, each time he's broken it he has been remorseful and sorry, saying it would never happen again.

Whenever I've started to back out and pull away from the relationship he straightens up and becomes a prince once again and i stay. I get seduced and fall back in love with him until he gets triggered and paints me black at which point I'm devastated and waiting for the storm to pass to get my boyfriend back. And he always comes back.  But this time I believe it's different because I went to this woman's husband who threatened my boyfriend and also said some negative things about me. Now my boyfriend is scared of me, says I could have destroyed his business and he can't trust me ever again. This time according to him it's over the top and he's done.  I of course now regret what I did because it has exploded my life. He and I were getting into a groove of so much closeness and I started to feel confident like I had some control in the relationship and that's why I asked him to remove this woman from his Facebook page. I wish I could have known that I would lose him all together. I don't know what's worse? Being close to him and spending so much time with him but feeling like a fool because something is going on behind your back, or losing him all together and feeling empty and lonely and scared. He might be narcissistic and borderline and sociopathic, but it's obvious I'm codependent and addicted.

What a mess. And all I want is to know whether he will ever resurface. Ugh. Why couldn't I control myself?

[patientandclear]

Well, to answer that specific question: you took the actions you did because he was betraying your trust and outright lying to you. And a strong gut-level impulse pushed you to try to do something about it. There is nothing, zero, wrong with that.

Talking to her husband was an indirect way to try to deal with it and it did backfire because you didn't deal directly with the man who was hurting you. You used an indirect mechanism to address the hurtful behavior and that left you open to him out-manipulating you, which he did.

But set aside whether your strategy worked. You tried something to indicate you can't live like that. With lies and betrayal.

He is right to raise trust as an issue but the one who violated trust in the relationship is him.

This is an important juncture. You are letting him invert all that happened and blame you; you are apologizing; you are showing him you have no boundaries. He can do whatever and he has such power over you that you can't draw a line.

That's a crappy place to be. You explained that when you took a different (more distant) approach in the past, it worked better. If you want this r/s back on better terms, why not try that?

You are posting here rather than on another board so I won't ask why you want this back. I will say you seem to accept every word this guy tells you at face value (he couldn't dare to avoid the ex and was forced to have sex with her for years? ? While he was giving you his best self? Probably not what he was saying to her.)  You are very vulnerable to manipulation by this guy. He knows it. He knows you so want to believe everything is acceptable so you can keep him. He doesn't behave well with that information.

I'm pushing you a bit but I do know how painful it is to face the possible loss of addictive relationships.  Many have written on this board that things can't improve unless you are willing to lose the r/ship and I think there is much wisdom in that. Right now, you are not willing to lose it and that makes you very vulnerable to abuse.  I hope you'll stop apologizing and start determining that there are some circumstances under which you would not want this man. Maybe reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist (available online) would be useful. It contains useful suggestions for those staying in a relationship like this.

[Cat Familiar]

Well, you may not like my advice. I was married for 16 years to a man who sounds a lot like your BF. He too was a cheater and a liar.

Like you, I'd take on guilt for his betrayal: maybe I wasn't sexual enough, attractive enough, interesting enough, enough enough.

Men like that are very good at manipulation and when you start taking responsibility for betraying trust for just following your instincts, they can do whatever they please, knowing that you'll beg them to come back.

Extracting myself from that relationship was one of the most difficult things I've ever done. And once I made the decision, I have never had a moment of regret. My life is immeasurably better now, even with a BPD husband who abuses alcohol. He's kind, honest and we are financially secure---all things I never had with my first husband, the cheater and liar.

My advice to you is to get as far away from this man as possible. He will continue to do these behaviors because he can. You are worth much more than that. Be kind to yourself. Get a support system, a good therapist and trust some good people to help you out of this mess. You deserve better.

[Siamese Rescue]

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful replies.  I welcome all the feedback and suggestions I can get. I'm always open to constructive criticism and not one to frown on advice that I might not want to hear or like - I do value the truth despite my clinging to a liar for so long. Given that, I'm grateful when someone tells me what they believe is the bottom line.

It's such a painful place to be…...

[Cat Familiar]

It's such a painful place to be…...

I am so sorry. I truly understand how difficult it is to have committed yourself to someone who can so cruelly hurt you. I just kept thinking that if I only loved him and believed in him, that he would change his ways.

Actually the only thing he changed was to become even more successful at deceiving me and keeping his affairs hidden.

I don't know your situation, but I see myself in your words. You've given him so many chances. He keeps showing you who he is. You deserve better.

[patientandclear]

Ditto.   

[MaybeSo]

It concerns me that you have had to struggle with such a serious health issue as cancer with all this going on.  I am so sorry. I hope you are taking really good care of yourself.  You really don’t need this kind stress.  

We can’t change other people, only ourselves.

There is a book called Tell Me No Lies written by two very skilled marriage counselors.

In the book they discuss the one who Cheats and Lies.

And they introduce the concept of the “Lie Invitee”.

I have some experience with being a lie invitee, so please don’t think for one  moment I am judging you, not at all.

The Lie Invitee is the person who participates with the “Liar” for our own reasons; and our behavior actually can support and hook into the behavior of the ‘Liar’ such that we invite being lied to and repeatedly going through these painful experiences of  betrayal over and over again, sometimes as a re-enactment of a past betrayal, possibly from childhood.  Usually it’s not entirely conscious or in our awareness why we are choosing this.  

Some questions to ponder:

When you say you love this man (who lies and cheats to you) what does that mean?  Is this love or is it an addiction to him?

What are you not willing to accept?  For example he has shown you who he is, what his adaptations, strengths and weakness are, and it includes lying and cheating.  We all have strengths and weaknesses.  Some are more disruptive than others.  One thing is for sure, these adaptations (lying, cheating, sexual acting out)  have been around for a very long time, and aren’t just going to go away quickly, if ever, and certainly not w/out a tremendous amount of work on his part based on his own motivation (not yours).  Because, people just don’t ‘change their behavior quickly.

Are you fully accepting of who he is?  Why or why not?  If you are not, it doesn’t change the fact that he has these behaviors.  Rather, it speaks to wanting to change him or being in denial about accepting the reality of all of him, all his qualities, both good and bad,  in favor of fantasy.  This can be part of being a "Lie Invitee.”  

You only have control over yourself, no one else.

[bobcat2014]

In short... .good for you.

You needed to do this or else you would have regret. These people are emotional parasites and care nothing for anyone but themselves.

It is heartbreaking in hearing what these people do to others.

If you need to talk send me a pm... .I have been where you are.

Good luck,

[123Phoebe]

I'm always open to constructive criticism and not one to frown on advice that I might not want to hear or like - I do value the truth despite my clinging to a liar for so long. Given that, I'm grateful when someone tells me what they believe is the bottom line.

It's such a painful place to be…...

What is your bottom line?  Do you have one?  If not, expect more of the same.

Stage 3 cancer is serious stuff.  All this stress and as you said "craziness" can't be very helpful to your recovery    

[Siamese Rescue]

I appreciate everyone's replies and I'll try to answer some of the questions posed to me as best I can. I feel so paralyzed with heartache right now…

Do I accept him as he is? That is a great question. I wish the man would have sat down at some point and said, "I love you, I love having sex with you, I will always be there for you, but I can't be monogamous and I might have someone here or there if I'm attracted to them and they're attracted to me and I have given my ex sex when she has asked because I view sex differently than you do and frankly it's not that big of a deal to me. Now you can decide if you want to be with me or not."  I acknowledge that him saying that would be as likely as my chance of finding a unicorn. Still, I would have felt more respected and may or may not have stayed with him. Probably not though.

Again, do I accept him as he is? I guess I don't because I've exhausted myself chasing and stalking and hiding in parking lots and wondering what this man has been doing. He is masterful with words and always has just the prefect excuse and reason why he cheated and how it won't happen again. The years have just flown by. Yes I need to admit that I've tried to change him. He's always acted so appropriately after being caught.  Same old lines. I fell for them all.

I'm not making excuses for myself but I have a demanding job that is exhausting, I don't drink or socialize much at all, don't have a circle of friends, am an only child and he was always there. I enjoyed his company "when he was nice" and always held hope that he would eventually be nice most of the time and that the current episode of cheating was the last and he would straighten up.  How could I be so naive for so many years? Ugh.

I am an odd person myself. I rescue animals and I have a compassion for all things and people who are the underdog. Maybe I wanted to save him and make him the best he could be. I have to accept responsibility for this. When we broke up in 2013 and I managed three months of no contact, I saw the effect it had on him. It fed my ego, which might be bigger than it should now that I'm looking at myself introspectively. When I finally took him back, amidst all his love bombing, I was shocked that his secrets and stories were still in full swing. He hadn't changed.

I don't know what else to say other than this man was such a big part of my life and now there is a huge void. I'm struggling now not to call him. Perhaps some of my brain is still working. It's been 48 hours and I'm setting a goal of taking it one day at a time but hoping I can go 30-45 days and then, well, maybe forever. In light of my health crisis and the good advice I've received compliments of you all, I think if he should ever make the effort to get back with me (which after the actions I took, he's terrified of me and won't come near me) I would have a list of boundaries, and the negotiation would have to take place in a therapist's office and I would need to be mentally prepared for him to reject some of my demands and I would need the power to walk!

This is truly brutal. And yes, stage 3 cancer is no walk in the park and my survival is in question. I have a 58% chance of being alive in five years and a 30-50% chance of recurrence which would make me incurable. Currently, by the grace of God and surgeons, I am cancer free.

I appreciate all the replies. I'll go back and read them some more to see if I missed a question. As an aside I am definitely one to be the liar's willing prey.

[patientandclear]

SR -- this is a brave answer.

On the hard somewhat lonely path that resulted from my asking myself similar questions, one thing I kept to orient me was the quote from The Road Less Traveled that "mental health is the choice of reality over comfort."  Adhering to reality and what we really deeply know, not what we want or would like to pretend or hope for, can be really painful at first.  I have to think it allows for building something much more enduring and reliable, whether by ourselves or with a partner.

I find the pain and loneliness send our mind misleading messages: "you need to change this!"  But sometimes pain and loneliness are just a necessary passage.  I relaxed about the pain and stopped trying to make it go away (through re-engagement with my ex) when I finally accepted our relationship was very like an addiction, if it wasn't literally an addiction.  When you give up the addictive substance, even when you realize it is causing a lot of long term harm, it is PAINFUL.  It hurts.  You long for it, its absence seems intolerable.  People do go through that all the time and it is, almost surely, the right thing to do.  So I had to re-program my head to understand that the pain was not necessarily a signal that I was doing something wrong.

I'm pulling for things to get better for you.  You really deserve that.  

[hope2727]

Good for you for telling. I wish someone had told me when my ex husband cheated on me many, many times. You can't change who people are. Cheaters cheat, liars lie, abusers abuse. Cheating is one of the cruelest forms of abuse.

How the husband, other woman and your ex choose to behave is up to them. There isn't a darn thing you can do about it. The only thing you have to decide now is what you are going to do about you. You are ill. You have needs. You are worthy and deserving of having those needs met. You only need to decide what you are going to do now. Nothing more.

All the best. Keep your chin up. 

[formflier]

 

In most situations with pwBPD... .writing things down is a bad thing.  In this case... you were "making a deal" with the other woman. 

If she intends to keep the deal... .she should have no qualms about "signing off" on her story.  What she said or committed to do for you on a certain date.  If people are reluctant to do that... .there is normally a reason.   I think you have found out that reason... .

So... .as to the question about "can this be saved". 

The answer is certainly it can.  There is no guarantee.  You could do everything perfectly... .and the r/s could still break down and fail.  As others have said... .you only control you. 

So... .I think the bigger question... .is do you want to "save" this.

Separate that into two other questions.

Do you want to save this in its current state?  With the lies and cheating.

Or

Do you only want to save it... .if the lies and cheating go away.?

I'll end there for now.  Please give this a good long think... .and let us know your answers.  From there I think you can get some good guidance from the boards.

[Cat Familiar]

Siamese Rescue, we have a lot in common. I too am an only child and an animal rescuer, although not currently, as I'm taking care of as many as I can afford, both in time and money.

I saw wonderful qualities in my ex husband and wanted to rescue him too. It didn't work out and he nearly destroyed me with his bad habits. Currently he has an active arrest warrant for beating up his next wife and it is unlikely that he will show his face in this state again, thankfully.

You say you don't have a circle of friends. May I offer a suggestion when you feel lonely? You may already do this, but the local animal shelters appreciate having people walk dogs and pet kitties and it can be a nice social context for meeting new people.

[Siamese Rescue]

To answer your question, do I want to save this "as is" or "only if the lying and cheating can stop" ?

I think I want to save this only if the lying and cheating can stop. As addicted as I am, I still have part of my brain working. I realize that the lying and cheating cause me to suffer a chronic low grade stress that sometimes shifts into higher grade stress and it's constant. It has caused me to have trouble within my job, negatively affected my attitude toward life in general and also compromised my ability to form friendships with people because frankly, I'm always in a bad mood. I'm always hurting, disappointed, angry, aggravated, fearful and tired. Even during the good times, I can enjoy them only about 90% because there's always the 10% wondering how long before the other shoe drops.

This is a sad situation and perhaps only you folks can understand how I feel when I look at my phone and scroll my text messages and see I love you from him as recently as Dec. 18th. Now he has turned against me with venom that can't be measured.

As an aside, the original ex girlfriend, who he cheated on me with forever? The one who is like his mother and handles all of his business, paper work still to this day? He went to her during this crisis for her help with the new mistress's husband.  Yeah, the old girlfriend and the new mistress are now friends on Facebook. I guess he recruited number one to convince number three that number two is crazy and jealous. 

Based on what I just shared above, that now they are in cahoots together, I don't think he and I could ever work this out. I was told for years he just wanted to get relief from the first woman. She was a psycho nut. Yet he could never cut the cord with her and still to this day relies on her to run the administrative side of his life. She loathes me because he chose me instead of her (on the surface) and so she is more than happy to convince the husband of the latest mistress that I'm crazy.  This hurts beyond words. It's truly awful. 

I'm so codependent. I'm so disgusted. There's part of me that is so damaged that I'm saying to myself that if I just kept my mouth shut, he and I could have shared the holiday together and none of this would have happened. Yet my intuition was suffocating me and choking me to death and I had to confront him and take the action I took. Now, he has pretty much disowned me forever, recruited my enemy to mend the fire I started with the husband so that he can still have access to the mistress. He also will have convinced the first girlfriend that he and the mistress are just friends. This guy is masterful with words. My mother calls him Charles Manson. My friends call him Bill Clinton.

Maybe it IS time for me to learn to live without him. I think what is making this so hard is that we had gotten so close.  A few months ago I was ready to end it on my terms because he was so distant and unavailable and plain mean. But then he turned up the volume and drew me back in so deep… That's what's painful. I couldn't exit when it was in an ugly neglected place and it would have been easier to go. I had to arrange my own throat slicing while we were on a regular schedule of daily contact and feeling like the relationship was solid.

It sucks….God it sucks….

[patientandclear]

He also will have convinced the first girlfriend that he and the mistress are just friends. This guy is masterful with words. My mother calls him Charles Manson. My friends call him Bill Clinton.

In the midst of a very somber, brave post, these words made me laugh -- and made me sure you're going to be OK.

You are super smart (all your posts have always reflected that) and what you wrote here has so much insight.  It's not easy to let yourself see all that (that you are struggling in other aspects of your life because this is always compromising you at some level).

It IS hard.  Super super super hard.  I think it truly, no exaggeration, is on the same level as quitting heroin.  There's a reason people avoid doing that.

I have been through that pain the past, oh, several months.  (More than several.)  Really, really bad pain.  And lots of second-guessing (I am the queen of that) and regret.  But I think I may be through that and I can say I am so glad I made the call you are considering.

You're right that if it didn't often feel so deep and profound and good, it wouldn't be nearly as hard to face the corrupt part.  Your mind keeps rejecting the realization of the corruption because it just doesn't square with the goodness.

But looked at from another angle, this is kind of just a shell game.  Everyone is told that the others are parasitic or weak or cruel ... .and everyone is told that she is the most special.  Why else would any of these women participate?  And yet when everyone is special, no one is special.  I don't know how people can pull off the sincerity men like your guy and my BPD ex muster when they spin the specialness story with multiple people, but seemingly, they can.

I finally got my feet under me (with a lot of help from folks from here) and decided what I was giving my guy WAS really special, and if he was not going to treat it as such, I would.  I don't think he can do what I need, like I doubt your guy can do what you need, if you need fidelity and honesty.

Bill Clinton ... .

[formflier]

I think I want to save this only if the lying and cheating can stop. 

OK... .that's a pretty good answer.  I don't want to come across as harsh here... .this is me being clear... .and me also explaining why I say this is a "pretty good" answer.  There is a hedge in your answer... ."i think" (at least to me)... .gives some wiggle room. 

If you are ok with having wiggle room in your answer... .then this is OK.  Ultimately this is your choice to make...

My advice:  Monogamy in a r/s is usually a choice that reflects a "core value" that hopefully both of the people in that r/s share and agree on.  Usually without "wiggle room".  So... my advice is to take whatever time you need to make a decision where there is no wiggle room.  Because... once you make that decision... .lots of other decisions will fall into place.

For example:  If you decide you want monogamy... .and you know that he is at another ladies house ... .the decision about whether or not to place a call to him to discuss the status of your r/s would seem to me to be a no brainer.  Don't call... .

Also:  I want to be clear about what you should NOT get from this board.  It is policy (guideline) of BPD Family that we don't allow "run messages".  In other words you should not see a message that says "It is my advice that you leave this guy immediately"... .or anything to that effect.  A decision like that is something very personal... .only you can make it and direct "run" messages make it more confusing for you. 



Full disclosure:  I've chosen monogamy.  I'm a conservative Christian type of guy.  Those things go hand in hand... .they are core values.  There is no wiggle room on my religious choice... .therefore there is not much wiggle room on the things that go "hand in hand" with that religious choice (belief).

While I disagree with others that make different choices... .I respect them and I'm more than happy to discuss choices with them.

I'll hush for now... but I will say that I think you seem to be conducting the right process to think this through.  We can help you with this process.  The final answer is up to you. 

You will find that BPD Family has many resources to help you with choosing to stay or to go.   

[Rapt Reader]

You've been getting a lot of very good advice, and valuable insights into a relationship that is like the one you are dealing with, Siamese Rescue. I know your situation feels untenable and excruciating (I've actually been there, too... .My own Husband of now 40 years had a 2.5 year affair when we were married from 11-13.5 years. Luckily it was a one-time thing, with no other women before or after, so we were able to make our relationship work).

There is a book that I found to be extremely helpful to me during that painful time: "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie. If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend it to you; it actually saved my sanity when it needed saving    and helped me do what I had to do next:

Things didn't turn around in our relationship, during the course of his affair, until I got brave enough and strong enough to realize that I couldn't live with things the way they were and asked him to leave our home. I was actually very prepared to have a legal Separation; it was that determination and freeing of myself from his dysfunctional behaviors that made him think twice about his activities and real desires.

I freed him up to choose me over the girlfriend, by getting out of his way and moving on with my life. I was actually surprised when he did that, after clinging on to him for so long trying to exercise some control over the situation. Giving up that façade of control and letting him go, as I started doing things that were healthy and helpful to me (working out, eating better, being more positive and less gloomy about my life, etc.) turned out to be the best thing I could've done. I moved on, and then about 2 months later he moved back into our home and out of her life for good. Amazing... .

But you know what? Whether he would've ended up back in my life or not, I did the right thing for me, and I could've made it with or without him. At the time, I realized I had no choice but to save myself from the pain, and no matter how it would've ended up, that was the most valuable thing to do for me. Luckily it also turned out to be the most valuable thing for us as a couple, too... .

[ColdEthyl]

You've been getting a lot of very good advice, and valuable insights into a relationship that is like the one you are dealing with, Siamese Rescue. I know your situation feels untenable and excruciating (I've actually been there, too... .My own Husband of now 40 years had a 2.5 year affair when we were married from 11-13.5 years. Luckily it was a one-time thing, with no other women before or after, so we were able to make our relationship work).

There is a book that I found to be extremely helpful to me during that painful time: "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie. If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend it to you; it actually saved my sanity when it needed saving    and helped me do what I had to do next:

Things didn't turn around in our relationship, during the course of his affair, until I got brave enough and strong enough to realize that I couldn't live with things the way they were and asked him to leave our home. I was actually very prepared to have a legal Separation; it was that determination and freeing of myself from his dysfunctional behaviors that made him think twice about his activities and real desires.

I freed him up to choose me over the girlfriend, by getting out of his way and moving on with my life. I was actually surprised when he did that, after clinging on to him for so long trying to exercise some control over the situation. Giving up that façade of control and letting him go, as I started doing things that were healthy and helpful to me (working out, eating better, being more positive and less gloomy about my life, etc.) turned out to be the best thing I could've done. I moved on, and then about 2 months later he moved back into our home and out of her life for good. Amazing... .

But you know what? Whether he would've ended up back in my life or not, I did the right thing for me, and I could have made it with or without him. At the time, I realized I had no choice but to save myself from the pain, and no matter how it would've ended up, that was the most valuable thing to do for me. Luckily it also turned out to be the most valuable thing for us as a couple, too... .

*nods* Rapt, you helped me a bit ago when I made a post about my husband and I's relationship before our marriage and you had mentioned your husband's digressions. Thank you for for sharing your story. I too went through the panic of losing him at the time, but I knew I couldn't put up with that. I did move on also, or started to. No contact... .no anything. He left her permanently and came back on his own, and there hasn't been anything like that.

But, that pain... .that has been the strongest pain I have experienced besides a death. If he cheated tomorrow, I would do the same thing though. Life is too short. I am worthy of better. I know that now.

[Rapt Reader]

But, that pain... .that has been the strongest pain I have experienced besides a death. If he cheated tomorrow, I would do the same thing though. Life is too short. I am worthy of better. I know that now.

Yeah... .the pain I felt and lived for that 2.5 years was unsurpassed by anything else ever since. I truly felt my heart was being torn up into little pieces inside of me, and I would die of the torture of it all. Even today, when I think about it, I can't believe I actually lived through it 

I'm very glad to hear that things worked out for you, ColdEthyl. It does prove the theory that when we are at our best--emotionally, self-esteem-wise, outwardly happy and confident--we are at our most attractive to our mates. I remember being frightened to death inside when he left our home, but acting confident. His reaction to that (one of interest and attraction) very quickly bolstered my self-esteem, and I didn't have to "act" anymore... .It was actually kind of fun watching my Husband's opinion of me change to a positive one, and his opinion of the girlfriend become more realistic and less infatuated.

But like you, if it ever happened again, I'd make him leave again... .I didn't deserve that treatment at that time, and don't now... .

[Targeted]

I'm just going to throw in my two cents here and hope something helps,  it's a personal story about my family that relates to the situation you are in minus a personality disorder.  My grandfather was caught cheating on my grandmother and this happened when I was a child and I did not know about it until later, my grandfather on his own business and this was his secretary, when my grandmother found out about the affair she demanded my grandfather take her to this woman, of course my grandmother was upset M-Pact's bags and threw him out of the house and all of that as well, when the day was set up that my grandfather would take my grandmother to meet this woman my grandmother held her pride and asked the woman-- do you love my husband? Are you really in love with him? And then she told me that she said if you are in love with my husband you can have him! To me he is a cheater and he hurt me so good luck with him!  My grandfather was standing there for the whole conversation, my grandfather is a real loving memory that made a very very bad mistake and wound up owning up to his actions and did everything he possibly could to make amends with my grandmother as well as go to great lengths to reassure her nothing like this will ever happen again, he was so ashamed and sorry for what he had done he went the extra 1,000,000 miles to make things right!  This all happened probably 40 years ago, because of her forgiveness and his sincere remorse and efforts they went on to have the most beautiful marriage until death do us part that I have ever seen! Growing up I would have never guessed this had ever happened,  can things be fixed?  Yes absolutely!  But my grandfather's situation was not due to a personality disorder, it really was just a mistake, if your boyfriends mistakes stem from A personality disorder and there is something that you want to fix  I would focus more on fixing the disorder that causes the mistakes Instead of fixing this one mistake because it will happen again, look at it like cause and effect!  The effect was he cheated, what was the cause? Do you think it will be a isolated incident and a mistake? Or do you think it is because of the disorder and will continue?  If there is something you want to fix I suggest fixing the disorder first and if he does not want to do that, don't bother, don't just look at the problem, look at the roots of the problem.    I do hope that helps

[Siamese Rescue]

i'm so grateful for each reply and I read them over and over again. They're like presents or gifts. The last reply sharing the grandfather story and inquiring whether this was a mistake, isolated incident or whether it's due to a personality disorder has me jumping the gun to answer: PERSONALITY DISORDER. This man was abused and molested as a child. Although he claims that his childhood experiences aren't really the cause of his personality problems.

This man matches the description of a disorder that I looked up and can't remember the full title but it was malevolent ______. Maybe malevolent psychopath.  He anticipates betrayal, trusts no one, lies so chronically that it's impossible to know when he is telling the truth. He creates stories, blames others for every failure he's ever had. He uses sex as a tool. He views sex as a trade, not an intimate interaction. He uses it to garner loyalty and manipulate women. He came over to my home a week ago Sunday and had sex with me and immediately upon finishing told me he had to meet his ex girlfriend to do paperwork for his health insurance and he wanted me to feel secure. Umm, so you didn't have a genuine urge to have sex with me, it was just to make me believe you weren't having sex with your ex when you spend the afternoon with her? These are the kinds of crazy making ways that he hosted this relationship.

As much as I miss the memories of good times, I feel like I'm growing a tiny bit stronger by the day. When I'm thinking of him lately (today) I see him as an entity of toxic lies and as a monster who hurts me. For the first time, I'm starting to miss him less and see him as someone who has zero conscience and no loyalty - that I would never have a solid foundation with him. He gets so ridiculously close to you and love bombs you almost to death but then there's an "act of war" that's usually the result of his lying and deceit. Then everything explodes and falls apart. The last episode was April of 2013. A milder incident in January 2014. The problem is that it's normal for him, but these crumblings amidst volcanic eruptions causes me to have enormous emotional stress and fear/anxiety. I literally fall to pieces. After eight years of this I developed major cancer that usually doesn't happen until you're age 70, and I was 44. 

Not to erode any credibility I may have established with you all, because I'm so grateful for your support, but I once had a very good psychic tell me that I had similar abilities. We all have strong intuitions, but mine are off the chart and I actually have visualizations. I recall being very adamant that my boyfriend was having sex with his ex in a place other than her home and that it was out in a certain community. Turns out he had sex with her in a house she had listed for clients (she's a real estate agent). The house was in that community.

The reason I mention this is that I have had intuition that he's been using the house of a friend to meet this latest married woman because she's too afraid to go back to his condo for fear of getting caught and they also didn't want to use a hotel. I have no proof, but I'm willing to bet if I had a detective on the case that he/she would say the two of them meet at this friend's house during the day.

So, finally, my mild psychic intuition also sees he and I months, many months from now, meeting in our old therapist's office and I definitely have the control in the meeting because I'm over him and he realizes that he's lost me. Perhaps it's an emotional defense mechanism and wishful thinking on my part, but I can see it so clearly  - it's Spring, almost summer and we are in her therapy room in her home.

Whatever wave of frustration, disgust and exhaustion that has come over me is making it easier, at least for now. I'll readily admit I might be crying and whining on her tomorrow about how painful it is and how much I miss him, but right now I'm glad I don't have to deal with his mental games.

Lastly, he would have to work on his personality disorder in order for this to ever have a chance. I don't think he will or would. Further, I don't have the luxury of time to wait in agony and pain because I just got treated for a stage III gynecological cancer. I could have recurrence within a year or two and need treatment again and be incurable. Somewhere my panic is dissipating and my brain is calm and thinking more clearly. This man has done this to me so many times. Triangulated me with another women (now it's two other women) and then watched everyone jump around like monkeys to win him.  He's such a prize.

I honestly don't think I could sit across a dinner table from him this evening.

Your time that you took to offer me this support and these replies is very appreciated.

[patientandclear]

There's a lot of wisdom and insight in that post, SR.  I feel much less anxious for you than I did at the top of this thread.

You are one of those people whose wonderful qualities just shine through your posts.  He is not the ceiling on what you can expect and experience emotionally and romantically.

I know what you mean about the lens shifting and realizing that, "no, I really would prefer not to have dinner with you."

I know from experience though that it is really hard to steer a straight line -- your emotions will probably shift a lot in coming days, back and forth.  But the things you've said here sound like a very accurate read on the situation.  Sometimes I literally have to say out loud to myself "reality over comfort" when my feelings want things to be other than I know they are.

[Siamese Rescue]

I know from experience though that it is really hard to steer a straight line -- your emotions will probably shift a lot in coming days, back and forth. 

You're so right. Yesterday: strong Today: weak and hurting

[ColdEthyl]

This man was abused and molested as a child. Although he claims that his childhood experiences aren't really the cause of his personality problems.

My dBPDh was as well, and also claims it doesn't affect him. However when he's upset and dysregulated, he brings it up and the things he experienced. His entire outlook on life is jaded from it. He's overprotective because of it, assumes the worst in every situation. Even innocent things like "Captain Underpants" books for children he feels are pornographic.

They usually do not think so, but what they went through paints everything they see with that brush of paranoia, anxiety, fear and doubt.

The way I look at it is his "Flight or Fight" is broken.

SR, it is a personality disorder, and I think you are correct. If my dBPDh wasn't actively talking and trying to change his thought patterns and reactions, I wouldn't be sitting across from the table from him either, no matter how bad it hurt.

[formflier]

[

The way I look at it is his "Flight or Fight" is broken.

I would suggest that it is not "broken"... .but that it is not "calibrated" correctly.

Broken seems "yes or no"... .calibrated seems to be adjustable.

BPD traits are a spectrum disorder... .that means some are worse... .some are better... you have to find yourself on the spectrum.

Not exactly like something else where they say you have it or not.

Thoughts?

[ColdEthyl]

[

The way I look at it is his "Flight or Fight" is broken.

I would suggest that it is not "broken"... .but that it is not "calibrated" correctly.

Broken seems "yes or no"... .calibrated seems to be adjustable.

BPD traits are a spectrum disorder... .that means some are worse... .some are better... you have to find yourself on the spectrum.

Not exactly like something else where they say you have it or not.

Thoughts?

No no that's a better word... .it's calibrated differently. You had corrected me earlier too in a thread that's closed so I didn't get to give you a nod on it, but I had said something along the lines of forcing a boundary on him over a physical issue he can't control, you offered a better term. "Boundary" wasn't the right word, "request" was a better term.

[formflier]

 

Boundary is one term that I think all "nons" need to get very specific on. 

Because it is so empowering... .a boundary is totally under the control of the "non"... .and is usually one of the first tools that is used to try to regain "control over their life".  It was for me...

Then... .once I held the boundary... .and survived my first "extinction burst"... .then... .I felt like I had power.  And I did.

The tools work!