'I want you dead'

[Moselle]

How seriously do I take this?

My BP NP wife said it yesterday during a serious rage, in front of her parents.

Of course today it's like nothing ever happened. Is this her projecting in effect saying 'I wish I was dead'?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[enlighten me]

No at that point she probably wanted you dead. My ex threatened to have a couple of her friends beat me up then said later I must be crazy as she never said anything of the sort.

[Ripped Heart]

Wow Moselle, that's a pretty full on statement to make, how did it make you feel when she said that to you?

As for taking it seriously, regardless of the intent or if it was projection - Anything that threatens the life of you or anyone else should be taken seriously. On this site we are taught that even empty threats about someone taking their own life should be taken seriously and so should this, especially if it is only a projection.

It might very well just be a projection but have to approached the subject at all today and asked what her feelings were around that comment?

[sweetheart]

Hello Moselle,

No I don't think this is projection, ( I can't know for sure ) but what I do think it fits with is the extreme end of splitting. My h has said this on more than one occasion during some serious dysregulation and it is really awful to hear.

[123Phoebe]

How seriously do I take this?

My BP NP wife said it yesterday during a serious rage, in front of her parents.

Of course today it's like nothing ever happened. Is this her projecting in effect saying 'I wish I was dead'?

Whoa Moselle... .

When she said that, how did you take it to mean?  What was your response, if any?  How did her parents react?  Where were your kids?  What was going on leading up to this?  Sorry,  I'm curious.  Those are some heavy words.  I don't like them one bit.

[SweetCharlotte]

Context is everything, but at the very least it is unacceptable and should be followed up with your removing yourself from the immediate vicinity (i.e. leave house or room, but not without your kids).

Like Phoebe says, big dislike.

[Moselle]

How seriously do I take this?

My BP NP wife said it yesterday during a serious rage, in front of her parents.

Of course today it's like nothing ever happened. Is this her projecting in effect saying 'I wish I was dead'?

Whoa Moselle... .

When she said that, how did you take it to mean?  What was your response, if any?  How did her parents react?  Where were your kids?  What was going on leading up to this?  Sorry,  I'm curious.  Those are some heavy words.  I don't like them one bit.

Phoebe, I stayed calm, and didn't think much of it. Her father leaned over and gave her a big hug. She was beginning to cry and wail about everything by then.

I caught her doing it last week on voice recorder, which I've shared with my lawyer. The latest ruckus started when she hacked into my mail afterwards (my bad - I left my email open on my desktop and stepped out to take a phonecall).

She found the email to the lawyer and went on a pre-christmas, during Christmas and post Christmas bender.

Its traumatic, especially when I'm trying to "stay in the relationship" -  but I don't personally feel threatened. Do you think I should confront it, or let it go?

She premediated insurance fraud, 18 months, ago, planned it executed it, and got caught. Her T diagnosed impulse control disorder at the time, but to me you don't have an impulse to commit fraud. You plan it execute it, which raises a concern.

Her disorder BPD NPD is diagnosed as "traits of... ." by a psychiatrist And I think I am on a discard loop, but I won't go away for her. She's tried to mediate to divorce, I refused to give a leaving signal, so we went for counseling instead. Perhaps I am an inconvenient object to her. Certainly during her rages she sees me as the devil.  

She started with "I don't trust you sleeping in the same room as our 3 little girls this morning with her mother". Mother also seriously Borderline, but I also think its just fear mongering.

It's not very consistent. One minute she is going away for the weekend, "please can I look after the kids". This weekend, it's  "I don't trust you to sleep in the same room as them."

[enlighten me]

Sounds like you are painted blacker than black. If your ex is feeling like mine did then she hates yiu. I couldnt even touch mine without her shuddering and acting repulsrd. Whatever she feels you have done to wrong her it is strong. Just being around triggeref mine. I asked what she wanted for us and she replied "to be able to look at you and not hate you".

I dont know how you recover the relationship from this but I am glad that im out of it as it was killing me.

[sweetheart]

Be careful Moselle especially where the children are concerned. At the height of my husbands dysregulations last year he phoned the police on me in the middle of the night telling them I was an unfit mother because I was abusing him (h not s ) emotionally because I questioned him on the amount of coffee he was drinking.(20+ cups a day) Thankfully my h uses an unregistered mobile because he is so paranoid so no address was registered. He wouldn't give the police his name and address because he thought they already knew and were being difficult with him by repeatedly asking for it so he ended the call. I would be worried about any references to her concerns with your children. Make sure you are well protected in this area. You will know that the legal board is littered with the damage caused to families because of the extremes of this illness.

No I do not think you should deal directly with the content of what your wife said it will serve no purpose at the moment only destabilise her further and allow her to continue to be abusive toward you.

What you describe in your post about your wife is very similar to what happened to my dBPDh last year. She is caught in a 'trigger stacking' effect from all the things that are happening to her at the moment and she is not getting back to baseline functioning for any length of time. She has very few safe places to aim her dysregulations apart from you. ( I am in no way suggesting that what is happening is in anyway ok it's not ) My husband thankfully ended up in hospital.

A dog behaviourist friend of my compared the impact of trigger stacking ( which is what it's called in the dog world) to when dogs seriously attack without apparent provocation. For the animal there will always have been a series of provocation. For me it has proved a useful analogy because it serves to remind me of just how serious the consequences of the illness can be.

So focus all your attention on keeping you and your children safe. The contrary nature of the illness has the ability to wrong foot us and allow us to accept the seriously dysfunctional. What you describe is seriously dysfunctional even if you don't feel personally threatened by it.  I think it was in a post by liveandlearned who said that the abnormal becomes the normal for those of us living long term inside the extremes of this illness and we loose our perspective on what is emotionally safe for us and our children to be exposed to. My own personal experience over this holiday period has seriously shaken off some FOG for me. Ultimately it is not about what I can live with and manage it is about whether I should be enabling my son to learn to live in a way that accepts this as his normal.

That is what the illness sometimes becomes 'our normal.'

[formflier]

  My own personal experience over this holiday period has seriously shaken off some FOG for me. Ultimately it is not about what I can live with and manage it is about whether I should be enabling my son to learn to live in a way that accepts this as his normal.

That is what the illness sometimes becomes 'our normal.'

Very similar thoughts from me... .

As I get more comfortable with "tools"... .validation... .SET... .I have become less afraid of the rages.  Dealt with properly... .they "blow out".

I have realized that by keeping quiet I have enabled bad behavior... .I no longer want to enable ridiculous claims... .(such as the  "I want you dead" that Moselle gets to deal with... .lovely by the way.

What I believe is important is to clarify the huge different between enabling and fixing.  I'm not in charge of "fixing" my wife.  I'm in charge of what conversations I am a part of... .what "abuse" (if any) that I take and what I leave the room for.  If this makes my wife uncomfortable or "stressed" that I'm not participating properly (in her mind)... .that's up to her to deal with.  She can talk to her T about it... .she can go for a walk and "vent"... .she can figure out some other way to self soothe... .but I do not want it to be "comfortable" for my wife to engage in abusive behavior towards me... .or around me.  I realize this will take a long time... .and may not work... .as I only "control" one side.

The positive point of this is I want to make sure that when she is talking to me properly... .that I make every effort to make that a positive experience for her.  Over time... .the hope is that she will seek out the positive experiences... .where she gets validated... .appreciated etc etc... .and that she will avoid situations where I walk out... .or don't "enable" her.

With that thought... .I'll end this post... .I'm going to start another one with somethings I think it may be wise for Moselle to consider so as not to "enable" statements like he experienced.

Thoughts on this?

[formflier]

 

Moselle,

Sounds like you did great handling a whacky family situation and some horrible comments.

A few things to consider... .

What you wife said is very troubling... .you are a supportive husband that wants to heal the family.  In that role I would think you want to "fully understand" what you wife means by saying things like that.

What would happen if there was a follow up conversation with you, her and the father present where you are supportive, concerned... .etc etc and ask her about her feelings on what she said... .and ask what she hopes you understand about it. 

If she denies saying it... .end the conversation and move on... ."perhaps" things were misheard in the heat of the moment.  And that is a good reason to not have "heat of the moment"... .to slow things down... .to speak clearly... .to allow for active listening... .etc etc.

Point here is to engage her on this issue without being confrontational... .but by being supportive.  Be ready for her to be confrontational... .deflect that... .validate what emotions you detect... .and stick to the purpose is that you want to understand and be supportive.

Thoughts?

[123Phoebe]

Her disorder BPD NPD is diagnosed as "traits of... ." by a psychiatrist And I think I am on a discard loop, but I won't go away for her. She's tried to mediate to divorce, I refused to give a leaving signal, so we went for counseling instead. Perhaps I am an inconvenient object to her. Certainly during her rages she sees me as the devil.  

May I ask what your reasons for staying are?  I mean like right down to the nitty gritty; "I want to stay in this relationship because... ."

[ColdEthyl]

When my dBPDh is in a serious raging baby fit, he's been known to say he hates me and once he took my glasses and told me he hopes I get into a wreck and die.

It hurt a whole lot at first when I didn't know what was going on. Now when he gets like that (which thankfully has been getting less and less by using the tools here) it doesn't even bother me. I know it's BS.

[Moselle]

Moselle,

Sounds like you did great handling a whacky family situation and some horrible comments.

A few things to consider... .

What you wife said is very troubling... .you are a supportive husband that wants to heal the family.  In that role I would think you want to "fully understand" what you wife means by saying things like that.

What would happen if there was a follow up conversation with you, her and the father present where you are supportive, concerned... .etc etc and ask her about her feelings on what she said... .and ask what she hopes you understand about it. 

If she denies saying it... .end the conversation and move on... ."perhaps" things were misheard in the heat of the moment.  And that is a good reason to not have "heat of the moment"... .to slow things down... .to speak clearly... .to allow for active listening... .etc etc.

Point here is to engage her on this issue without being confrontational... .but by being supportive.  Be ready for her to be confrontational... .deflect that... .validate what emotions you detect... .and stick to the purpose is that you want to understand and be supportive.

Thoughts?

Confronted it with her mom and dad. She clarified that she was not about to kill me but prayed that God would take me. The back ground to this is that we had a family friend diagnosed with NPD.  She had affairs and separated from the family but it caused a real ruckus. She contracted pneumonia and died and the general consensus amongst the rabble is that God took her. W I is on this projection at the moment that I have NPD,  and that God must take me, just like he took our friend.

I'll add that it's not that fun to be targeted this way!

The dad said "when we're angry we can't talk this way". The mom said you need to divorce and walked out.

At least they know I won't let this kind of stuff sit.

[formflier]

The dad said "when we're angry we can't talk this way". The mom said you need to divorce and walked out.

At least they know I won't let this kind of stuff sit.

Was your wife present for this?  Was the Dad saying that you were "talking angry"... .or that your wife was.

I'm thinking... .that as a way to further address this without being confrontational... .to have the dad talk some more about "not talking that way". 

Don't address it as right or wrong... .but just... ."wouldn't it be better if we... ."

Plus you can point out there would be less confusion about actually being killed or "being taken".

Talk about how concerned you were about being killed... .and the relief at only "being taken"... .and of course... .you are sure that she wouldn't want to cause you undo distress... .since it's clear now that she didn't mean to... . 

Sigh... .

Thoughts?

[Moselle]

Yeah,  she was present.  He's had it from the mother all these years and learned to put up with it. I was calm as a pond (on the outside,  inwardly it was traumatic) . He was talking to her. She did mean to LOL! ! And if we had a conversation about it, she would probably say that she was justified.  But I think you're right.  The dad might be the key to this.

With everyone leaving she has gone into waif/hermit mode today. 

I'm going to let this be. It can come up again on the 6th during our next counselling session.

She was talking about divorce again and that I can't stay in the house again. This could get interesting in the next few days. We drive back tomorrow. 20 hours in the car after a Christmas like this! At one stage she said she was flying home, but she kindly told me to "Pack the car and trailer" today,  so I assume she's opted to join the family after making a point that we were not a family this whole time.

[Moselle]

Oh dear she must have gone back into red mode.

She'd booked a flight instead of driving with us. This is going to get ugly when I get home after her.

[formflier]

Oh dear she must have gone back into red mode.

She'd booked a flight instead of driving with us. This is going to get ugly when I get home after her.

Any chance you will be home before her?  If not... .might be good idea to get a hotel close by so you and kids and get good nights sleep... .and show up ready for... .whatever.

[sweetheart]

Hello Moselle,

Just to second formfliers suggestion, I was going to ask if you had anywhere else to stay.

[Moselle]

Thanks folks.  I do have an alternative place to stay in case. But to throw a completely different spanner into the works, the conversation started with the "I want you dead" speech went to divorce and I'm flying home, and I never want to see you again,  and if I want to leave to live in Australia you are going to stop me?

I just listened and accepted some culpability in the "dynamic"... .an hour later we were sitting around the table with the parents and my kids as if nothing ever happened.

I decided to leave and bring in the new year at my sister's house.  Apparently it's too dangerous to be out on the roads on new years eve with children.  Fear fear fear - the BPD staple. I wanted some time out so I let it go.

A day in the life!

[sweetheart]

Moselle I don't know what the time  difference between you and the UK is but Happy New Year to you and your family. I hope the New Year gets off to a reasonably quiet start for you. It's all quiet here in the UK which is just how I like it.  

[formflier]

 

Just to confirm... .all of the kids are travelling with you?

Were the kids exposed to any of these "speeches"?

[enlighten me]

Moselle. Just because at the time of saying it she may have meant it doesnt mean it will last. My ex told me she hated me, was going to have me beaten up acted as if I was the most repulsive creature on the planet. At the time I believe she meant all of it. One day im sure that will change and will see if she attemts to recycle. These things are fleeting.

Sweetheart it might be all quiet now but in four hours it will be fireworks and drunks.

Hoping everyone has a better 2016 than 2014.

[Moselle]

Just to confirm... .all of the kids are travelling with you?

Were the kids exposed to any of these "speeches"?

Yes they are with me. D10 heard today's nonsense from hate to neutral.  She heard W say that the children actually want us to divorce :-(

No discretion here!

     Happy new year Everyone

[Moselle]

Some news.

My wife flew home before me from what is now referred to as: The "Shadrach Meshach and Abednego" vacation to inner space.

I was threatened that I would not be allowed back in the house, in front of the children and again over the handsfree phone ( again in front of the children) whilst driving the 20 hours or so home.

However when I arrived home, I did the touching shoulder greeting and got stuck into unpacking and doing the clothes washing etc. She left me alone, went to her planned photo shoot and I slept the night at home.

The kids came to me later with a big smile and said " Dad - there was no drama from mom when we  arrived home!" This was a surprise to me. They're working it out on their own as I separate myself from the unhealthy dynamic, and is unbelievably rewarding. They (certainly D13) understand what I'm doing.

Today was a good day. A very good day. I reinforced her positive behaviour by writing her a letter reciting the words to our wedding song. And I'll wake up tomorrow and make her favourite breakfast.  

I'll work on validating her too... .

BTW I'm very grounded in terms of not reading too much into this "I hate you, don't leave me" behaviour. It's obviously very fragile.

I've also woken up to 2015 as a very different year for me. 2014 was about discovering and learning about this devastating thing and coming to terms with accepting reality. It was also about me changing.  And i have changed - drastically.  

I'm also determined to get on with my life and let her get on with hers in January.

[formflier]

I've also woken up to 2015 as a very different year for me. 2014 was about discovering and learning about this devastating thing and coming to terms with accepting reality. It was also about me changing.  And i have changed - drastically.  

This story is a perfect example of what many (including me) say on this board that when we change "they" are forced to change. 

Some people will say this is unfair... .that this is us coddling them... .etc etc.  I... .of course  ... .... .will disagree.  And I'm inviting Moselle to comment on this.

Moselle,

If you could go back to the way you behaved a year ago... .or 6 months ago... .basically before you started working on the tools... .would you?

Note:  Just think about how happy you are with your behavior... .don't think about how your wife responds.

Where I'm going here... .is that many of our behaviors... .while maybe not "wrong"... .weren't the most healthy things to be doing anyway.

And that changing those behaviors... .is better for us... .even if the r/s dies... .even if the behavior from the SO in our life gets worse.

Moselle,

The fastball has been pitched... .take a swing.

And... .congrats on the vacation.  I'm even happier that the kids see you "doing" healthy behavior... .and realize who is causing drama and who is not.

Nice work!   

[Moselle]

No I would not go back. I am grateful for this. I actually had no idea that I had "unfinished business" from my childhood and dealings with my mom. I think she is BPD.

I am not celebrating much here at all yet though 

I'm still struggling under the weight and burden of changing myself, whilst in the fire of a full acidic BPD rage, and the responsibility to help my children.

But I have made very positive strides towards health, and the tools are so valuable in all relationships, not just with our SO. I'm better able handle difficult people in general. It's amazing how these traits show up now like neon signs once we know

[formflier]

 

Moselle,

I think we are in similar situations.  Protecting my children is a big motivator for me... .I sense that it is for you as well.

I'm coming up on the 1 year anniversary of "knowing" about BPD.  Literally... I had never heard of BPD before a MC mentioned it.  The counselor was very specific that she only saw traits and didn't have enough data to diagnose.  Wife wouldn't stay still... .as in stay in room... .long enough

I suspect that my wife may fall short of being "diagnosable"... .or if someone did diagnose her... .she would be really high functioning.

Also... .she is more along the PPD strain of things... .than BPD.  Paranoia seems to be central... .it may be "the" core issue.

Hard to tell if paranoia causes the emotional instability... .or if emotional instability makes her susceptible to paranoia.

For me... .I stopped worrying about that much... .since I can't treat it.  I can... .and do have to deal with the traits (behaviors)... .and that has been where most of my focus is.


How long have you known about it?

[Moselle]

Yes, my children come first. I will do anything for them to have a normal life after this. I just don't know quite how to do that yet.

I gave my W an ultimatum 4 years ago divorce or therapy. I had picked co-dependence and I even mentioned BPD, though I never followed either up seriously. There was some discovery, but I think she saw therapy as a bit of a moan session, and to be honest I think she has run rings around most of her therapists- my W is very very good at this and very highly functioning. It's a 12 month anniversary since I found bpdfamily.

I actually don't know what happened to 2014, it went in a blur.

I can only go on what I've heard her psychiatrist say to me. Started with diagnosis of eating disorder and impulse control disorder, then GAD. And then after 6 months my W told me the psych said she has BP traits and NP traits. There's definitely co-morbidity in there, take your pick of which diagnoses are accurate.

You have been an inspiration to me formflier, and many of my successes have been a copy/paste of yours, so thanks for sharing. I'm beginning to get some of the patterns and I realise that if something is important and I just persist with it, repeating it over and over, she will eventually yield. (eg over Christmas, she and her family realised I would not cave in, ever!). This has been crucial in gaining some control over my life, and I think there are the beginnings of some respect coming from her side too. This tenacity is also spilling over into other aspects of my life too, so the muscles are strengthening.

I've recently started doing Mood gym, which has been crucial in terms of looking into my warpy thought patterns, and making some changes to how I view the world.

Although I cannot put my finger on all that I've changed, going back to the in-laws this Christmas actually made me realise that I have changed fundamentally. I just couldn't fit in even if I had tried to. I also realised that my W had been brave some years ago, going NC with her parents for 18 months - and even terrified of spending Christmas with them 2 years ago, we had made token appearances that year. (I think the childhood damage had come out in her therapy, and she was angry). But this year she painted me fully black, reverted back to 4 yr old mode.