What are they like with kids?

[Indyan]

Hi,

so here we are "co-parenting", or trying to. He's taken his own flat I'm not allowed to see (while he still considers (now) my house also his and refuses to give back the keys), and takes baby one day at the week-end.

I have seen that when he split up with me, and the same with his ex, his feeling toward my D10 (and also his ex D12 at the time) doesn't change surprisingly. I mean, she's not painted black.

But I wonder what things are going to be like with our baby, who's not 1 yet.

Aren't BPDs bound to show a push/pull behaviour with their kids as well? Maybe not as babies, but when they grow a bit?

What's your experience on this?

[hergestridge]

My BPDxw couldn't deal with kids at all. At age two it became crazy. She got into arguments with our daughter when she could barely speak. My ex wife got so angry SHE had to leave the room so that our daughter "won" whenever the little girl decided to pick a fight. My exwife was annoyed at the dinner table because of out two year olds "bad manners", she was annoyed or furious at bedtime because she wouldn't go to sleep fast enough. My exwife didn't have the patience or the mental stamina to handle a little kid. She screamed, yelled and lost her patience more or less on a daily basis.

The worst aspect of this was that my exwife expected me to "defend" her *against* our daughter. "You always take her side!". Well, you're not supposed to have adult conflicts with you toddler... .

My wife sought help for this, and the therapist she was assigned questioned if she was a suitable mother. And I couldn't but agree. My daughters well being was (of course) far more important than the relationship with my wife so I had to face up to the truth and be honest. The way my exwife reacted to this only confirmed my suspicion that she was BPD (something she was diagnosed with a year later) because she expected me to help her tone the problems down in from of the "bad" therapist who threatened to report her to the social services (if she didn't agree on treatment) and find some other therapist instead.

That is the dangerous part. Their own powertrips and games *are* more important to them than the well being of their children, because these things are so real and so important. I had to be there as some sort of "reality check", because she just didn't have that.

[Indyan]

Thanks for your reply.

Do you have a court order now?

That's also the thing that scares me. I mean, already now when he takes baby, he calls me BEFORE SCHEDULE to ask me to pick him up "because he's tired" or "whinning"... .I always agree, of course.

But after court, I'm really not sure he will not feel forced to prove he's a "good" dad... .

Yesterday, I saw him almost lose his temper when putting baby on his car seat. He said "I can't do this!", and when he saw I wasn't reacting (I used to when we lived together, but now I want to see how he handles things) he carried on impatiently.

I've seen him losing his mind completely because my D10 and me had woken him up for example. And I find this really scary.

Does your wife sometimes paint the kids black too?

What was she like when they were babies?

[hergestridge]

No court order. After this incident i described we stayed toghter for another year and I took care of my daughter almost all the time while my wife took the back seat so to speak. She also got on Lithium and Seroquel, which may have helped stabilize her mood a little bit, but not much.

I suggested a trial separation, but she refused. A few months later she left me and demanded 50% custody. I made sure she had support by psychiatry and by her parents and then I made a schedule where she only have our daughters a three days at the time. I know she wouldn't be able to handle more.

My plan has been that if it doesn't work out then I have to involve social services, psychiatry and perhaps get a court order. But so far it seemed to have worked OK.

BPD is a relational disorder and I supposed much of the fuzz were just childish protests where she was trying to prove that my way of doing things was wrong etc. I *know* her therapists had to tell her to stop talking about me "... .instead of the problems we're here to talk about".

It is possible that they are better parents when left to their own devices. It seems so to me.

As for the push/pull behavior... .yes, I'm afraid so. My wife was really "Dont' come bother me... ." when she was not in the mood, but when she had decided herself that it was playtime she could be chasing her down and be all touchy feely. One thing that bothered me was she didn't want to be touched when she was "down". A two year old that wants to give mommy a hug... .and mommy gets annoyed or angry. That's just so ___ed up, sorry... .

[Indyan]

One thing that bothered me was she didn't want to be touched when she was "down". A two year old that wants to give mommy a hug... .and mommy gets annoyed or angry. That's just so ___ed up, sorry... .

Yes my BPDx refuses physical contact when he's down, I've seen him rather distant at times with baby when we lived together. But now, he sees him only once a week, so I guess he makes the effort... .

How do you handle holidays? Is she ok to only have 3 days in a row?

The huge problem I have is his family. I know he can't handle more that a few hours, that's why he always calls me before schedule to pick up baby, because he has enough. But his family puts pressure on him to ask for shared custody and the like.

That really freaks me out, because out of pride he might end up biting more than he can chew, so to speak.

[hergestridge]

One thing that bothered me was she didn't want to be touched when she was "down". A two year old that wants to give mommy a hug... .and mommy gets annoyed or angry. That's just so ___ed up, sorry... .

Yes my BPDx refuses physical contact when he's down, I've seen him rather distant at times with baby when we lived together. But now, he sees him only once a week, so I guess he makes the effort... .

How do you handle holidays? Is she ok to only have 3 days in a row?

The huge problem I have is his family. I know he can't handle more that a few hours, that's why he always calls me before schedule to pick up baby, because he has enough. But his family puts pressure on him to ask for shared custody and the like.

That really freaks me out, because out of pride he might end up biting more than he can chew, so to speak.

Holidays is also 3 days in a row. She barely leaves town. When we were together I had to drag her away on longer trips if I wanted something like that. For me it's a bit sad, because I would really like to go for longer journeys, but I suppose it's sacrifices I will have to make.

If his family pressures him into having more time with the baby, are they wiling to support him also? A disabled parent will need all the help they can get. My wife practically lives at her mother's place when she has a rough patch. At least she has the insight.

When we were together she just wouldn't admit when she was falling apart or freaking out.

[Indyan]

Well, he's not diagnosed but at times he's depended 100% on his parents. This autumn, he stayed at his parents, his dad had to drive him everywhere (a nightmare for me, as I had to bear having him to stay for a full afternoon with his dad). In the end, it's also his dad who found him the appartment, I guess they had enough of having him at home.

DUring the hols, he will spend time at his parents' summer house WITH THEM, which happens to be near to where my parents live too (that's how we met as kids actually). But it is not that safe though. His mum was diagnosed bipolar years ago, and used to severely abuse the kids. Last summer, he had baby for 2 hours, and when I got back he was on the street, bare footed and his hand was bleeding. He said he had broken things in his mum's kitchen. Breaking things means rage, so I'm not at all convinced when he says baby was sleeping upstairs and hadn't heard anything.

[hergestridge]

Well, he's not diagnosed but at times he's depended 100% on his parents. This autumn, he stayed at his parents, his dad had to drive him everywhere (a nightmare for me, as I had to bear having him to stay for a full afternoon with his dad). In the end, it's also his dad who found him the appartment, I guess they had enough of having him at home.

DUring the hols, he will spend time at his parents' summer house WITH THEM, which happens to be near to where my parents live too (that's how we met as kids actually). But it is not that safe though. His mum was diagnosed bipolar years ago, and used to severely abuse the kids. Last summer, he had baby for 2 hours, and when I got back he was on the street, bare footed and his hand was bleeding. He said he had broken things in his mum's kitchen. Breaking things means rage, so I'm not at all convinced when he says baby was sleeping upstairs and hadn't heard anything.

That doesn't sound like a safe environment to be honest. I hope they don't carry through with no shared custody plans.

[Indyan]

That doesn't sound like a safe environment to be honest. I hope they don't carry through with no shared custody plans.

To be honest, I think he's changed his mind.

A few weeks ago baby was ill and he stayed home to look after him while I could have some rest (last time he stayed over). Baby woke up every couple of hours to drink and get confort.

In the morning BPD looked a wreck and a few days later he sent a letter (he knew I was going to see my L) to say he wanted Saturdays 10AM-6PM.

He's mentioned "full week-ends" every 2 weeks "in the future"... .

I KNOW he wouldn't take baby more. But his parents would... .

[DreamGirl]

So, I think that it's a really good idea that you keep helping your ex keep the stress to a minimum. Babies and short tempers don't mix very well and if he knows that he can keep calling you to help him out -- without judgment -- he'll probably keep doing it.

As your son gets older, there may be more opportunity for longer visits when he is not so demanding.

I have to say that the pwBPD in my life (my stepdaughters' mama) is a much better parent when she is able to lean on my husband for support. Her relationship with my oldest stepdaughter (17) was very strained up until she moved in with us for the majority of the time (she goes to her mom's house every other weekend). I couldn't have predicted that when she was younger being that my SD17 was almost her mom's caretaker for most of her young life. It's benefited them greatly to be a little bit more at an arm's distance.

So my long-winded point is to maybe just take it for what it is right now. In my state, a child under 30 months is usually placed primarily with the mother (or whichever parent was the primary caretaker so far) and the time spent with the other parent is increased as the child gets older.

It's hard to say --- you may feel differently as time goes on. When it comes to BPD, it's almost guaranteed that he will. 

Good job at doing what's best for your son, Indyan. 

[drummerboy]

My ex was great with my 3 and 6 yo daughters at first but very quickly she told me that she didn't want to visit me when I had them. BPD's like to be the sole focus so having needy little kids around doesn't really work for them.

[Panda39]

My SO's uBPDxw painted the older daughter black (because she was close to dad) and younger daughter white when they were younger and their parents were still married.  Now older daughter is more enmeshed with mom (plays along with mom) and is painted white and younger daughter who is trying to create her own boundaries (assert her independence and doesn't always play along) is painted black.

But we are talking about a 14 year old and 18 year old.

Dad has primary custody Monday - Friday and one weekend a month... .Mom has the remaining 3 weekends and dinner on Wednesdays.

***Just a suggestion document all the time your ex has your son and also note all the times he returns him early - If you can get email communication of this even better - this information could be helpful if you have to go to court***