Question about boundaries

[maric]

Hello BPD Family. I wish everybody a peaceful new year!

I have a question about boundaries, and I suppose people on the Staying board maybe can help me better with that, so that's why I am posting here.

I have been doing a lot of soul searching and self analysis. I remember some situations with my uBPDxgf when she said things to me that I did not understand at the time, but now I have started to get, maybe in the context of BPD or NP.

There were some times when she picked on me about my looks. She sometimes did not like my clothes, or the fact that I was overweight.

Just to clarify, here's one situation when something like this happened.

We were at the swimming pool and I was feeling bad for my body, so I kept some clothes on. She knew I had my clothes on because I was ashamed of my body. I am an artist, so I was sketching some people that were there at the pool at the time. I was drawing several people, and a guy who was far away from us got my attention. He was a big guy. I did not give much thought at the time and continue sketching. The guy realizes I was drawing and gives me a face. I told UBPDxgf: "I guess that guy is angry because I am drawing him". She said: "Of course! You would not be happy if somebody was also drawing your body!" I felt really bad and started to cry. She said that she felt bad about it, but me crying made her feel like I was saying to her "Look what you do to me! You are bad".

At the time it never crossed my mind that me being hurt could also "hurt" someone who had hurt me previously. I was not crying to make her feel bad about herself at all. I cried because I was already feeling bad about my body at the time, in a swimming pool rounded by fit people, and her comment just added up to that.

There was other situations when she told me the same, that I was crying because I wanted her to feel bad. I never understood that.

So, question is: is that a boundary problem I have? Was she crossing my boundaries when she made those statements? Was I crossing boundaries when I expressing my feelings and showing that something she said/done hurt me?

   

Thanks for the imput!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ripped Heart]

  Maric

I'm perhaps the least qualified here to talk about boundaries as I know I have very poor ones, they go up and I then either put them back down or allow others to climb over them.

There appears to be several factors going on here. In terms of her picking on you for looks, clothes and weight. How you deal with that can down to your own boundaries. It seems these were comments intended to hurt you and from the rest of your story, it appears they did.

Sometimes people can offer constructive criticism around certain things but personally, I've always felt it's about the delivery and how you present it. I've had similar comments about clothes before and looks too. For me, it's always been about the "I" and "You" statements that make the difference between what is acceptable and what can be construed as insulting. For example, sometimes I shave my head, sometimes I let it grow out. If BPDgf says "I prefer it when you shave your head, it looks much nicer" I take that as a compliment. If she says "You look horrible with longer hair" it then feels like an insult and I feel hurt.

Your feelings towards the situation and the comments made are entirely valid. The way she put it across to you, hurt you and you do have every right to be able to express that hurt. What it appears in this situation is that she has hijacked your emotions and feelings and turned them into her own. Something that seems to be quite common with pwBPD, it has to be about them. What I've found when faced with similar situations is that we then switch off our feelings to soothe them and their feelings which can lead us to feel angry and resentful at times.

I think her believing that your crying is to make her feel bad is a genuine belief but as we know, feelings = facts to pwBPD so that is how she interprets it. How you respond to that is down to your boundaries. Hijacking your feelings is a violation of your own boundaries as you have every right to feel hurt or upset without having to be made to feel guilty for having those feelings. The answer to your other question is No, you were not crossing any boundaries by expressing your feelings as you have every right to do that. Those are your feelings and you should be free to express them. What she did is also a form of projection, something you said has hurt her but rather than take ownership, she has projected it right back at you. That's not yours to own, that's hers but again pwBPD find that very difficult if not sometimes impossible to deal with.

As I say, I'm in a very similar position because I move my boundaries in much the same way or have difficulty identifying boundaries so very valid questions. The key to it all though now is learning how to enforce those boundaries and keeping them strong.

[waverider]

Its not a boundary unless you make it one, and are willing to carry out some action to prevent your exposure to it.

eg if she had a habit of deliberately saying things about your looks (not just you interpretation). Then you can up and leave. If you do this every time this happens, then that is your boundary and leaving is your action.

If she says things and you do nothing, you have not made a boundary, and therefore it has not been crossed. Everyone's boundaries are different,. Some people who may be more self confident would'nt care what she said about their body. They would not need a boundary around it.

pwBPD have few boundaries of their own. WQhich is one of the reasons they can be vulnerable and defensive. This also means they struggle to accept or understand the importance of boundaries to others. Leaving it necessary to employ actions to keep them intact, requests alone will rarely work.

Hence boundaries are unique to each person and so it is up to each of us to decide where are boundaries lay, there are no set definitions.

[fromheeltoheal]

The guy realizes I was drawing and gives me a face. I told UBPDxgf: "I guess that guy is angry because I am drawing him".

I don't know what the etiquette is with drawing, but with photography it's usually not OK to take pics of someone you don't know without asking them first, unless it's a crowd shot with lots of people or something.  If the guy noticed you were drawing him and seemed not OK with it, you could have gone and introduced yourself, said you were an artist, maybe showed him what you'd drawn so far, and asked him if it would be OK; he'd either say yes or no, and you might have made a new friend.

She said: "Of course! You would not be happy if somebody was also drawing your body!" I felt really bad and started to cry. She said that she felt bad about it, but me crying made her feel like I was saying to her "Look what you do to me! You are bad".

Guess you had to be there, but that seems like a pretty innocent statement to me; she was telling you how you'd feel if someone was doing to you what you were doing to the guy.  You interpreted it to mean negative commentary about your body, which you were already self-conscious about, but was it really about that?

Anyway, boundaries.  You could have said "I'm self-conscious about my body so I'm going to leave clothes on, and could you please support me in that" or something to that effect, and if she wouldn't or didn't, then you have a problem that needed to be discussed at length regarding support, respect and trust.  Of course she could have said "Sure, no problem, and if you want when we get home we can sit down and put together a diet and exercise plan so I can help you feel good about yourself."  That's what friends do.

[formflier]

So, question is: is that a boundary problem I have? Was she crossing my boundaries when she made those statements? Was I crossing boundaries when I expressing my feelings and showing that something she said/done hurt me?

Not really... .

Waverider explained boundaries well...

In this situation... .a boundary would have been... .she makes a hurtful comment and you move to get away from her... .so you can't hear any more.  You can't control her making them... .but you can control yourself... .and make sure that you don't hear.

But... .

What I really think you have here... .or need to think about here... .is "taking things personally"

She may... or may not... .have meant that comment to be hurtful... .or she may have meant it to be helpful and constructive.

We will never truly know why other people do things.

We do have a choice... .

We have a choice to assume they are doing it to be hurtful... .and then we take it personally... .and have to process a wide range of emotions as a result.

Or... .

We can assume that the comments (even it they sound hurtful) area result of something going on inside that person... .and are about them... .not about us.

When you are dealing with pwBPD... .most of the time... .it's about them... .not us.  

So... .don't take it personally... less emotional reactions mean you can think through the situation better... .and can have a better chance to effectively use tools.

Thoughts?

For what it is worth... . I learned about "not taking it personally"... pretty late in the game.  Many months after I started on this board.  :)ealing with this aspect of my personality has reaped big benefits for me... and my r/s.

[maric]

Hey,

thanks for the imput, everyone. It's so great to get several points of view about the same situation. It clarifies so much for me.

I guess Waverider and FF got to the point that I take things too personally. It's really a problem I have and I need to work out.

Ripped Heart also gave me some insight about being ok to express my feelings, and doing that is not always about crossing somebody else's boundaries.

So, yes, I know I that I take things personally sometimes, but still, when I do, it's not because I want to hurt back the "supposed offender", it's about something I feel self-conscious about and I cannot hold my feelings inside about it. In this particular case, let's assume that she made a innocent comment (I really don't think that she intended to hurt me when she said that), I took it personally and reacted to it (crying). What bothers me was that later, she said that ME expressing MY feelings about MY own problems makes HER feel bad. I mean, it was not about her, at all. So Ripped Heart saying about hijacking my feelings fit the situation, I think.

After the end of this relationship, I am trying to work on myself and really be better, for myself and for others. If I would have a new rs, I want to start fresh, and not take problems from the previous rs with me.

This rs broke me in so many ways. It's been a year and I am still working on myself to get over it. It ended bad: I was betrayed and then left by myself for Christmas and New Years, as we were supposed to travel around my country (Brazil). I offered her the plane ticket as a gift, and she seemed really really happy about it for months, looking forward to it, telling me and everyone how happy she was we were traveling together. Then she got obsessed about this guy and just call the whole thing off one day before the trip. And plus, she said that I was trying to manipulate her when I bought her the ticket. It was not true, it was a gift I gave to someone I loved and who was in a commited rs with me for 1 and half year. It hurt me deeply.

And Fromheel, just to clarify about the sketch... .I was drawing like 130 feet away from the guy... .I was sketching the ambient (trees, small buildings around) and the guy happened to be there, and I draw him too... .

Thanks you guys for the kind replies. I hope everything's good with you and I wish you all a peaceful and lovely 2015. 

[formflier]

After the end of this relationship, I am trying to work on myself and really be better, for myself and for others. If I would have a new rs, I want to start fresh, and not take problems from the previous rs with me.

What is the plan to "really be better"?

Describe your support network that you are using to accomplish this...

[maric]

Well, lets see:

- I came back to my country to start fresh and away from her;

- contacted friends, go out or meet them when possible - 2 to 3 x a week;

- started wood carpentry course, made some furniture for my home;

- redecorated my house;

- came back to therapy;

- focused on work: my drawings and paintings;

- started to run during 2014 and in december took gym more seriously, working out every day now;

I still dont have a new relationship, went on few dates but nothing got my attention. Now I am feeling better and would like to meet new people.

Do you guys reccomend something else?