In need of support - does my ex gf have BPD?

[TrumpetS3]

Dear all, I posted this up in the newbies section too, but wanted to add it to this section too since its perhaps more relevant.

I apologise for the length of the post, its a complex story and I wanted to be sure I got all the facts out.

I stumbled across this forum a couple months ago and I've been lurking for some time reading others experiences which has really helped me understand my ex gf behaviors. Let me begin by saying she has not been diagnosed as BP, but she displayed many traits associated with it and I certainly feel after visiting a DBT therapist myself on two separate occasions she informed me my ex appeared to suffer from emotional dysregulation. She recommended I read Walking on Eggshells of which I've read to cover to cover twice and immediately while reading it I was busy highlighting sections which closely aligned with her behavior and my feelings.

The purpose of my post is really two fold, 1) to get some support and advise on how I can recover, 2) to try and understand if indeed she has BP or could it be that I'm to blame after all. I guess I'm still not sure if the behaviors she displayed towards me were justified or not.


It all began with me meeting this amazing 32 year old women through online dating, around 18 months ago, I was 37. I'd been single for around 2 years after splitting up with my ex wife who I was married to for 3 years, and have known for 10 years. A lot of my story relates to my ex wife who I'll refer to as T. My ex that I'm still recovering from I'll refer to as D.

Some background on T as its very relevant to my story; T and I were friends first, she was my friends neighbor from where I grew up overseas, we began dating and got on well but I knew quite early on the chemistry was off and the spark was a little weak. However I thought she would grow on me and she really liked me a lot and I liked the attention. Anyway we got on great as companions and I guess I got swept up in relationship protocol especially since many of my friends were settling down with girls at the same time, I didn't want to be left behind. We dated around 2 years then began living together, it went fine, she began to apply pressure about buying a house, so we did. About a year later I was given a great job opportunity that would involve a relocation to the US. I was very excited as it was a country i'd always wanted to live in, I knew a lot about the country after spending many extended vacations in the past. However there was a catch, only a spouse could accompany me, fiance/gf would not be eligible. A tough decision but we ended up getting a quick registry office marriage and three months later we made the move. The first year was fine, we were excited to be in a new country and it was a distraction I suppose from our dwindling relationship. The second year we began drifting apart and started living quite different lives, I had my interests and she had hers. We began to squabble over small things and our intimacy was about finished. We had become house companions. We drifted through another year in a similar state, we both were in denial about our relationship, what made it even harder was that we'd both moved our lives thousands of miles away from home. Anyway about 6 more months passed and I finally said what we were both thinking and said things aren't working out and I was planning on moving out. A couple months later I'd bought a house and I left her. Its important to note, there was know one else involved, we had just grew apart. Interestingly about 4 weeks after I moved out we began talking again, after a few more weeks we became really good friends again like we were at the start. We still had the same circle of friends too so we resumed hanging out together, she began dating someone new, initially I was uncomfortable with that but I met him and he was a good guy and I could tell he would treat her right. I didn't hang out with him and her that often as I felt that would be a bit much, but her and I still spoke on the phone a few times a week and exchanged texts most days. All platonic, we'd talk about our jobs, friends we had in common, events coming up, general news events. We both knew we'd made the right choice breaking up and we felt good about that. Fast forward about 2 years to when I met D.

D and I started dating in a typical manner, but she was different than what I'd experienced before, I'd dated about 3 girls in the two years post T, but these were casual and went nowhere. I either didn't like them or vice versa so no big deal. I messaged her first online, and within hours she replied and was very interested. We had about 3 emails back and forth the same afternoon and were getting on well. Surprisingly the same afternoon she invited me to a cooking class the following day as she had a spare ticket (we hadn't even spoken verbally yet), I didn't have plans but I politely said I had something else going on but thanked her for the invite. I suggested we exchange phone numbers and we spoke on the phone the next day. We spoke for like 3 hours, our conversation went great, we had tons in common, she was funny, I was so excited, at the end of the call I asked her out for a date. She agreed and we set a date a few days later. Our first date didn't flow as well as our first conversation but we got into a groove and it was a pleasant evening and arranged to meet again a few days later. Anyway to cut a long story short we ended up seeing each other a couple times a week over the next month or so. On the second date I'd told her I was still friends with my ex and she seemed cool with that and said she still was friends with a couple of hers too. Everything seemed fine and I was excited about where things were going.

The next part was a red flag; before I met her I'd already booked a 2 week long vacation to south america on an extreme motorcycle adventure mostly off road. I was leaving in early september, I met her the end of July. My trip was quickly approaching and I knew we would miss each other but I was excited for my trip, one evening about 2 weeks before I was due to leave, I jokingly said in response to her saying she was going to miss me “well you'll just have to come with me, then we won't miss each other ”. Her reply was “ok I will, let me speak with my boss and see if I can get the time off and look into flights!”.

I was very surprised by this response, but embraced it. This girl was willing to come to a third world country with a guy she's only known a month and trust him to carry her around on the back of a motorcycle for a week! Part of me was like wow this girl is amazing, the other part of me was like this is kinda full on. Basically I was going out for the first week alone and she would meet me there for the second week.

This next part is when the ___ hits the fan and where her personality starts to really confuse me; I needed a ride to the airport for my vacation, my buddy had offered but he is notoriously late for everything and I didn't want to take that risk with missing my flight. I mentioned this to T and she said she could take me, its only a 45 minute ride for her so no big deal. D had also offered to take me but she lived 50 miles away and it would mean a 3 hour round trip for her to take me, so I just told her my buddy was taking me as didn't want to put her out. I get to the airport, while I'm waiting my flight I call D, I tell her T gave me a ride up, her reply was an unbelievable fit of rage! She calls me a liar, a cheat, I cannot be trusted, I've chosen my ex over her, I still love and want my ex. She's not even sure she can come join me now as she's so upset. I was in complete shock by this response, I was confused, why would she think this way, it really upset me and the worst part was I had to cut her off to board my flight. I'd never had a girl think or speak this way to me before. As soon I boarded I wrote a long email to her explaining my actions. Remember at this point we hadn't even discussed being bf/gf yet.

I get to south america and settle in for the first day and tell I'm there safe, she replies and makes no more mention of her prior remarks and appears to of calmed down. No apology or anything like that.

I have a great week and it all seems forgotten about while I'm talking to her on emails. She arrives a week later and we get on great. About half way through the week I ask her to be my gf, its a very special moment while we were hiking in the afternoon. The same night we meet three single backpackers in one of the towns who spoke english and we arrange to meet them for dinner that night. It was D's idea, she had this urge to always want to make new friends and it would often come across a bit much in my opinion, desperate almost. I went along with it and he had an ok dinner with these three people, she decided to invite them to our hotel for drinks and I was slightly concerned as we had a 6am train ride the next day and it was already 11pm. Unfortunately I had a bad stomach in the bar and excused myself from the group and said I'd be right back, I had about a 30 minute bathroom break and came back down and apologised. D gave me an evil eye and was annoyed I took so long, she exaggerated that i'd been over an hour and had no empathy that i'd been sick. This pissed me off, but I kept my cool and took it. A few more drinks went down and we ended up taking our cocktails with the group to our balcony since the bar was closing. We were still chatting at around 1:30am and I was beginning to get tired. I also could tell one of the guys was giving D the eye. I tactfully said “well guys, I think its time for bed, we have an early train ride in the am”. Thinking D would get the hint and agree, I walked slowly back in the room to excuse myself, I then here D shout “No you are not!” I then hear her bad mouthing me to the others and making a distasteful joke at my expense. I tell her to come in the room to talk, I said what the heck are you doing, I heard you badmouthing me. She denied it and said I was being rude, I said its late we need to get some rest. I also had a 10 hr motorcycle ride after the train ride to take! The others finally got the hint and we said our goodbyes and they left.

A couple days later we are up against it, we'd been riding 10 hr days and had a long way left to go to get to the bike drop off and catch our flight home. I'm underestimated the time it took to travel the roads so we were on the verge of biting off more than we could chew. Around 6pm that night after riding all day already I had to stop for a break, we had no where to sleep that night and our flight was the next day, we'd decided to sleep on the side of the road somewhere, I was fine with that and said I'd need around 5 hours of sleep to be able to keep going. Her reply was quite nasty “You need to man up, its your fault we are here, I have to be at work in two days, you aren't getting that much sleep!” I was pissed by this reply so we argued. Again no empathy for me being already exhausted. Anyway we made in with ample time after getting around 4 hours sleep!


Back home things are ok except we begin circular arguments about T giving me a lift to the airport. The same stuff, I chose T over her, why would I do that etc... I explain to the best of my ability it was nothing and i'm not choosing anyone over her. She won't accept that but eventually it subsides. The following month we arrange to do a local fun run, coincidentally T and hr bf are also doing it, in light of her irrational reply to the airport incident above, I decided it would be a good idea for her to meet T, I thought once she met her she'd see there was nothing to worry about. What followed I could never of anticipated; we all meet very informally after the run. Five of us as D had a friend with her. I'm talking to T's bf and the girls are stood beside us chatting. The conversation lasts around 10 minutes. What i'm hearing sounds completely fine, T was asking her about her recent vacation with me, they were talking about the run, I heard T say, she was pleased to see I'd met D and she could see I was happy. She also said she was a good friend to me and obviously had known me a long time. I heard her call me a 'piss head' jokingly (where i'm from that's a jokingly way of saying I like to drink), as she knew that afternoon we were doing a bar crawl. That was pretty much it. We said our goodbyes and the three of us walked away. I thought all was good, however D had a completely different experience. I could tell she was angry, but with her friend there kept quiet, it wasn't until later that night when she started quizing me about T and I's friendship that things got out of hand. She was asking, question after question. How often do you talk, what do you talk about, how often do you text and about what, does she come to your house, if so why and how often? I felt under attack, every answer I gave was getting her more angry. It tipped her over the edge when she found out we both had spare keys to one anothers homes! T had a dog and I'd still look after it, sometimes she'd drop the dog off while I was at work, this was the reason. She went crazy at me for that, back came the rage about I still need her, her and I have a love bond, i'm co-dependent on her.

Then she starts twisting T's comments from the meet that day to feed her rage, suddenly T saying “he's a good friend” was twisted to “i'm his best friend, I will always be around!”

“piss head” was twisted to her calling me a disrespectful name, no one should call me a name, T was being offensive towards me! This was not how it was said or meant at all.

“she was pleased to see I'd met D and she could see I was happy” was twisted to “I'm soo glad he's finally found someone!” D took this remark like T felt pity for me and was being condescending.

Essentially the above 10 min meeting had formed D's entire opinion of T, D was convinced T was a bad person. A few weeks later in was my birthday, T had bought me an inexpensive gift, something we kept up post breaking up. Around the same time as D had such a huge issue with the house key thing, I told T to bring it back to me. This opened up a conversation about why, I gave T a brief breakdown of what had been going on, problem was T then obviously became annoyed as this person that didn't know her was saying untrue things about her. I was completely stuck in the middle now, I had a friend that was just a simple friend and a gf who was going nuts about me being friends with her. I'd try to explain to D and she'd accuse me to defending T, and not protecting her.

 

[TrumpetS3]

These were D's exact beliefs she wrote to me shortly after the gift & key return, no matter how hard I tried to explain we were just friends her opinion never changed:

I want to open myself up to you, even if it's our last communication. I hope you will respect me enough not to share this or the contents of this message. 

I must tell you that one of my concerns with our confidentiality is because your "friendship" w your ex wife. I will refer to her as this because that is who she is and I feel that you refuse to acknowledge this fact. In my opinion and experience the reason you demand she stay in your life is because there is something she offers you that I do not. I know this from experience. While I was w ###, I had ### in my life because we had been such good friends before we ever dated. He gave me intelligent humor, conversation, and trusted advice when I needed it bc I knew he had my best interest at heart. To be honest, I wouldn't be w ###. Once, he asked for me to get back together after ### and I were starting to be serious. Part of me liked him wanting me and as a team they offered all I wanted. Over time I realized I needed the whole package in one man. ### is now in a relationship and I am very happy for him. His gf had a problem w the frequency of our calls and friendship. Out of respect, I backed off to allow them to bond. We still talk from time to time, but I have good intentions, have respected her bounds, and do NOT try to shove it in her face. Whether you see it or not, I believe your ex has ulterior motives/manipulations. She absolutely knew you would tell me she gave the key back... .AND that it was in your home, and she gave you a gift. She has not tried to back off. Instead only fueled sensitivities. If you cannot see this, I am at a loss. I found, in you, the whole package I was looking for in a man. Unfortunately, I am not all you want in a woman. Initially, this made me extremely frustrated and angry. Now, I feel upset. It's hard for me to accept this and I've been trying to turn a blind eye to the truth of it. You are right, it is not a her verses me. It is you and me. Your ex does not belong in the equation. Especially if she cannot respect my feelings. However, it is ultimately you who set the boundaries. I've been told I should start hanging out w my guy friends/ex's to show you what it's like. That's not me. I don't like games. You may call it ultimatums, but I I see it as being honest and giving the opportunity for success. It may be foolish, because, as stated above I don't have all you want and that really isn't fair to you. I guess I just need/ want it clear cut and told to me this isn't it. If she is going to continue to call & text & make herself at home in your life, it is up to you how much you allow. From the beginning and still now, I find it intolerable the amount of her presence in your life and our relationship. Please take time to consider my words and how you truly feel. Again, I would appreciate you not share any of this w her.



As you can see her mind was clearly made up. I was then faced with a dilemma, I didn't see it right to cast T out of my life as thats where D's opinions were heading, I tried to make her understand she was no threat to us, she had no ulterior motives but she just wouldn't believe it. I didn't want to lose my friend, not because I needed her, but it just didn't feel right in my gut to do that. I tried to stay transparent, I'd tell D when even ever I communicated to T, but 90% of time I did that it would end in a huge row. She would question me intently on what we spoke about, why we spoke, for how long? It was horrible, I was nervous to ever mention her name. Consequently I reduced mentioning her, D began to assume I wasn't communicating anymore with T. What followed later that year was even worse! We were on vacation skiing for a week, over that week T and I exchanged perhaps 5 txt messages. Messages about nothing in particular, just about the snow and how we were doing. I was having a great time with D and didn't want to risk ruining the trip so I didn't tell her. There was really nothing to tell. It was nye, and my phone was on the hotel table, D and I were sat there and a text popped up from T, basically just wishing us both a happy NY. D got very upset, instantly she was like, when was the last msg you received from her? I said a while ago, that wasn't a sufficient answer, she demanded to see my phone. I thought about it for a second, and figured, even thought there's recent msgs there, they aren't anything to worry about and I've got nothing to hide so I gave her the phone. I went in the bathroom while she eagerly went through each text intently. I walk out the bathroom, and a large 1.5 Liter wine bottle is heading straight for me! I deflect it with my right arm, a beer bottle follows that right towards my head, I duck and it misses. Then my phone comes next and rebounds of the wall. She is off the charts angry! She sees there's been messages between T and I while D and I are on vacation, she takes it as i'm hiding things, I'm a liar, i'm a cheat, I need my ex, i've been communicating with her in secret!

We have the largest fight I've ever had with a girl, the physical aspect stopped thankfully but she basically was done with me, she finished our relationship immediately and said when we get back I wouldn't see her again. I was so upset I spent all night pleading with her to reconsider. It wasn't until around 5am (we didn't go out) she agreed to stay, unfortunately what I'd done was struck my first bargain, by validating her issues and agreeing to distance my friendship with T.

To my slight surprise, I think D may of felt guilty for her prior behavior, the following month I'd made some small progress, I was able to persuade D to meet with T again, I said you've got it all wrong, just meet her again for me and you'll see. We arranged to meet at a local bar, T was bringing her bf. Remember she'd now been dating this guy almost 2 years by this point. A fact that D chose to ignore completely, its like she dismissed him totally. The meet started off fine, small talk, this time I didn't even speak with the bf, I was determined to hear every word the girls had to say. After about 20 mins, D started her piece, it began like “i almost don't want to say any of this as you seem a nice person but... .she then went on to say how T has to learn to respect our relationship, she can't be calling me as often, she shouldn't be buying my gifts, the texting has to reduce. T's behavior has been disrespectful to D... .you get the idea.

T was not happy to be criticized like this, especially as she was expecting a nice friendly get to know each other meeting. She bit her tongue throughout, she did that for me as she knew I was totally stuck in the middle of this impossible situation. She finally broke and said to me “please tell D that our friendship is as important as you and D's relationship” A big error to say that, I said NO, D is more important to me than anything. D looked at me intently, that was all she needed to hear.

D finished her piece and we all got on fine, had another round of drinks and we left there 30 mins later very friendly, shook hands/hugged and on the drive back in the car D said to me, I cannot believe she said that to you. Nothing positive that T had said (of which there was plenty of nice things said) mattered, she twisted that one sentence what T said into “you need to tell D that our friendship is more important that your relationship”. I said I don't think it was meant that way, she blew up at me, she was like, “its obvious she still loves you, I can tell, I know how women are. Why else would she say that?” I didn't have anything to say, it was a lose lose.  The weeks that followed her anxiety levels were getting so high about me having T in my life she was getting physically sick, she would blame it on me and I was causing all the problems she was experiencing. I felt terrible but didn't know how to help. She was causing the problems all on her own. Here is another example of her feelings she wrote shortly after the above:

You were not on my side from the beginning as your text says. I can understand that. You knew her better than me. But by now you know me and she has told you her intentions. I didn't know how to phrase it before, but she thinks & needs to be your #1 regardless of how it affects you or your partner. When I said our first meeting didn't go well it was bc she was telling me she was your #1 ("I'm his best friend. I will always be around.". Then her actions followed for her to fulfill her need to feel #1 w you. (I also didn't like it). Finally, she told you at our meeting, "you need to tell her that our friendship is more important than your relationship!" 

>

> Wow. Just wow! Don't you see she is hurt? She loves you and can't let you go. Not even if you'd be happy. Now that is selfish. That is NOT a friend. You said in the past you didn't care if she is not nice to me and she doesn't have to be. Um... .yes she does. Don't you care about me? Why would you let someone try to hurt me? I will get to more of my faults in a minute, but first, what does it say about you that you knew I was physically & emotionally suffering (although, my choice to stay) and you enabled, if not encouraged the situation? How could I spend my life w a man who could do that to me for so long?



Eventually she came out of the blue and told me I have to provide her an exit strategy for the removal of T from my life. If I did not do this then it would prove that I don't love her and she would leave me. I was shocked and stunned someone would demand this ultimatum, I said no. I explained again in length in person, email, phone about the friendship, but D's mind was made up. The facts in her mind were that T was a bad person. No matter how much I said or did she would never believe the contrary. We fought and fought over this for weeks, the same circular discussion, she'd say the exact same things over and over again. In the end I was so emotionally exhausted I said “fine I'll do it”.  Deep down I knew i'd sold myself out, it just felt fundamentally wrong. Part of me felt, this is the start of more ultimatums, but I loved her so much I couldn't bear to lose her.

[TrumpetS3]

I told T I had to distance things, she was pissed off. I said i'm sorry I have to do this if I want to keep D. She understood and things settled down.

The next few months got better in regards to T, with T distanced from my life D was happier and we were planning on moving in together. However other things were amiss for me which gave me some unease about her personality.  D has always been fiery, I had witnessed that a few times already but in conjunction with the huge issues above these are were other traits that perhaps are some of the core reasons that brought me to the support forum.

Neediness – Probably about 2 months into our relationship once we'd become intimate, she became very needy. One example around 4 months in which I actually still have on my voice mail history was I was at work all day, I travel a lot and am in meetings often. I was out of town and in a meeting all day, the night before we had spoken like we often did when I was away. She knew I was very busy that day day, but she'd tried to call multiple times and sent me multiple texts, after a few missed calls at 5:24pm she left the first voice mail, “where are you, you must be done with the meeting by now?”. 5:45pm another vm “it almost 6, I hope you are ok?” 5:55pm another vm she's getting angry now “I'd appreciate if you picked up!”. My meeting ran late, after 6:30pm, I called her back in a panic thinking she needed me, no she didn't need anything, she just wanted to chat. Then later that night i'm in bed, she leaves a vm “you need to leave your phone on, i'm having car trouble”. I call her back, its a minor overheat issue. But she made it like it was my fault for not being available. Calls like this would happen frequently.

Similarly if I hadn't seen her for more than around 4 days she would get quite weird, I'd arrive at her house and she'd be all cold and distant. She'd need reassurance that I loved her and wanted to be with her, once I'd done that she'd warm back up. But leave it again another 4 plus days and the same routine would be required. This reduced with time however.

A more recent example, I'm away watching racing for the weekend, I don’t hear my phone as the racing is loud and she is asking for directions to work as Interstate is closed. I see her text messages and she is mad at me like it’s my fault the road is closed. I call her as soon as I can, and she continues to give me a hard time as she doesn't know the directions I’m providing her on the phone she tells me to text her them. No thank you or appreciation. I text her detailed directions from my house to her work avoiding Interstate. A nice thing for me to do as I had to walk away from the last race of the day and concentrate on helping her. I’m cool with doing that, but she makes me feel and talk to me like crap for the road being shut when I’m trying to help her. No apology!

Blaming – Example a missing dog leash, she automatically blamed me for a lot of things. I walked dog one night while she was at work, I leave and she calls me asking where is the dog leash? I say I left it on the stairs, as its where I always leave it. She says it’s not there and I must be mistaken. I say no I always leave it on the stairs. She won’t have it and accuses me of losing it. A few weeks later it appears by the water heater in the garage. I certainly did not put it there! Did she admit to moving it, hell no she didn’t! No apology!

It could be anything, if something was broken, I caused it. I changed the oil on her car, a few weeks later it began to have an overheat problem. That was my fault, I did something wrong that caused the problem. It was unrelated, it was a bad thermostat, I replaced it and it was fine. No apology for blaming me!

Early worshiping – a telling trait I believe is a red flag, was occasionally during the first 6 months of our relationship she would give me very exaggerated compliments. Example; she'd say in a text, I wanted to tell you why I love you, you are fun, smart, kind gorgeous + more... .you'd be a great leader, provider, protector and decision maker for our family. I dream of our future life together and so excited. She'd also tell me she'd always be telling all her friends and family how amazing I was. All of this made me feel great and I felt borderline embarrassed. I knew I was a nice guy and everything but she was making me out to be some kind of hero. I didn't complain but equally I was a little un-nerved as no other girl had ever complimented me in this way.

Criticism – I have lost count of how many times i'd be criticized, I felt like I was constantly being monitored. Example, we were at a wedding eating finger food, it was a poor setup with no tables to leave your plates. I placed my dirty plate close to where the food was as there was no other place for it. She watched me place my plate down and asked what I'd done with my dirty plate. I said I put it down over there. She freaked out and said nastily “you put it by the food, you don't do that!” She went off to find it and handed it to the barman. She did that in front of a couple of people to make me look bad. Talk about walking on eggshells, I could rarely relax. She was way worse when others were around, like she was constantly trying to outwardly impress.

Driving was often stressful, I'm a decent driver but perhaps not the best at taking directions. If I was in an area I was unfamiliar with and she knew the way, she'd give directions, but if I asked her to repeat herself just once she'd get angry, often calling me a retard or stupid and would say “i told you that like 4 times!”, when in reality she'd told me maybe twice.

One memorable example was while driving through her friends apartment complex, I'd never driven there before, we arrive at the security gate, she aggressively says “press such and such, make sure you are quick to move too!”. I do it all correctly, the gate opens quick and I drive quick. She screams “what are you doing?” I say “going quick like you said”. Then she says “look for a visitor space”, I say what do they look like?” she gets angry “what are you retarded, look for a visitor space”. I'm getting pissed off now, I say “what the heck do they look like, are they a certain color, is there a sign, section or what?” she gets even more angry and calls me stupid. We can't find a space so she says we have to leave the complex, at the exit I ask “which way do I go?”, she says “go right”, I go right and she screams at me that I didn't turn left! At that point I lost it, I said “its no wonder I get angry at you, just look at how you've been talking to me!” She would minimize it and say she didn't do anything, and I should calm down.

[TrumpetS3]

Not trusting/believing – this ranged from the most ridiculus little things to big things. I would say “oh look a canoe”, she would say “that's a kayak”, I'd say “oh ok, we call that type of craft a canoe where I'm from”. She would not believe me, I'd have to actually pull out my phone and prove to her from google that I wasn't lying. Same with Halloween, she asked me what time does trick or treat start in your neighborhood, I said “i have no idea what you are talking about, they don't have times where I'm from”. She would say I was mistaken and that they must do. Again I had to go online and prove they don't have defined times in the country where I'm from. Not one time when I'd prove I was not lying would she apologise.

Exaggerated comments, never & always. - Occasionally from nowhere she'd decide to want to tell me how selfish I was and that I never bought her anything. For example I'd frequently buy our meals when we'd eat out, but she would ague and say, 'you never buy my meals when we go out, I always have to pay for myself'. I'd argue that and in fact (its slightly petty) I put together a statement from my bank account one time to show how much I'd spent on eating out with her over the past 6 months. Her response was she's spent more than that on me! I'd buy her expensive gifts for xmas/birthdays/valentines/anniversaries, she'd appreciate it at the time, but then say a couple months later I never buy her anything. She'd occasionally buy me little gifts that she'd see while shopping, as I didn't do that as often I was called cheap. She's tell me all her girlfriends bfs would pay for everything for them and she was the only girl she knew of that had to pay for perhaps a flight when we went on vacation. The fact of the matter was, we wouldn't of been able to do the trips we'd done if it was all on me.

Impatient/Rages – This slightly crosses over the criticism point, but she could get very impatient with me. Especially if I didn't understand something like she felt I should, or perhaps I was taking too long to get dressed or assemble say a piece of furniture, she would get angry and had been known to say, “you are retarded, I hope our kids don't turn out like you.” Cutting words which you can't take back were getting more frequent. When I'd retaliate which was quite often as I don't take kindly to being talked to like crap, she would immediately twist things around to her feelings about my ex T and how terrible I've made her feel. Not even relevant situations would be twisted back around to the same circular arguments about my ex so that she could win the argument. Knowing how sensitive she was about all that I'd often back down.

Exaggerated reactions – One weekend I asked her to take a friday off so we could go away with my parents out of state. As it turned out I got a great deal on a vacation rental and it was going to work out better to leave thursday instead. So I asked her to see if she could take thursday too. Her response was unbelievable, she said “You lied to me! You told me to only take off friday, do you know how difficult it is to request another day off. Just forget it, go without me. I don't want to be the reason to spoil your parents vacation!” I was like, wow its not a big deal, we'll just leave friday instead. I was only asking. I then had to persuade her to come!

Rarely wrong, or doesn't apologise. Everything is my fault – In her opinion the whole reason our relationship had problems was because of the way I handled my ex. She would not take any responsibility for her part in it. Is all she would say was she can be a bit fiery, be snippy and perhaps a bit controlling in a jealous kind of way. The thing that used to drive me nuts was during an argument I know she'd said something before, usually something mean, I'd bring it up as an example say a few weeks later, she would deny ever saying it, sometimes she'd deny the entire event even happened. I began to feel like I should of recorded our conversations!

Self important / appears to care a lot of what other people think of her. - A new girl started at her job, this new girl took an instant dislike to her for some reason. D told me it was because everyone likes her and this girl was jealous of that. However she didn't like not being liked, she began buying this girl coffee and got her a few small gifts to try and make her like her. Nothing really worked and she used to call me and tell me how pathetic this colleague of hers was being and that she was done with trying to help her. At the time I thought this new girl may have been a b___, but I now wonder if she was as bad as D made her out to be. D would often proclaim she needs no one and is just fine on her own. She would give great pride in telling me how she survived a rough upbringing and supported herself with 3 jobs to pay for school. Followed by how great she was at all her jobs she's ever done and is really quick to learn. I admired that until when I told her my story just a few months ago of how I struggled at school and really had to apply myself to get my degree, I mentioned my grades and she belittled me by saying “you wouldn't even pass let alone get a degree with that grade in the US!” I was very upset by such a mean remark. How can the girl who sings my praises so highly early on in our relationship suddenly then say that!

After we broke and we were still talking she took great pleasure in telling me she'd been out that friday night with her girlfriends to some bars, she said to me “I thought I was just average looking, but I must have been looking pretty fine, guys were looking at me and I got two phone numbers.”

My feelings were never considered – It was always her feelings that mattered, I'd hurt her, my ex has disrespected her, I should of protected her, she feels betrayed, what kind of person am I, she told me I had a flawed character multiple times! I'd be like “what about my feelings, look how you are treating me?” It would instantly be twisted back to “you've brought this on yourself by allowing your ex to come between us, its your job to protect me, you haven't done that” Never mind my feelings about the fact I felt my ex was a zero threat, was just a platonic friend and had no intention of coming between us!

Would push for too much information – Throughout the relationship she would push for detailed information about my ex, at one point it was like she was obsessed. Like, how much did you pay for the engagement ring, where did you buy it, what type of wedding did you have, who came, where was it, did you have a party, what food did you have, did you have a honeymoon, how did you propose and where? It was crazy and I asked her why she wanted to know all this, she demanded to know and would get very upset if I left anything out. But would then get upset anyway as she was comparing herself to my ex, and how I treated her vs my ex. It was very unhealthy behavior. One time she said she hated the fact I'd been married before and wished that she'd met me years ago so this ex would of never existed. 

Invasion of privacy – Shortly after she had moved in, she called me while I was at work. She started on the “when did you last speak with T?” I was like “ummm last week maybe”, she said “what have you been telling her about us?” I said “nothing why?” She then admitted to going through my personal emails and finding an email from T which said something at the end like “hope you and D are getting on ok smiley”. This was enough for D to become enraged, again she immediately assumed I was lying, keeping secrets from her and protecting my ex. My response was like “how dare you go through my personal things, you going through my bank account too?” She had no remorse at all, she basically said “I'd let you go through all my personal things, I have nothing to hide”.

Childhood abuse – This could be important, she told me a few months in to our relationship her father and sometimes her mother would physically and verbally abuse her. This went on for a number of years, her father sounded like a full on narcissist, she could never do anything right. He would beat her for minor mistakes, then beat her harder if she cried. She was not allowed to show emotion, she was taught to never show weakness, if she was picked on she should get at least a hit on her attacker. I think she was beat from around 5 to 12 years old. The father then stopped, but her mother took over the abuse for a while and did some beatings until she was around 14 and strong enough to retaliate. She's forgiven both her parents now and has them both in her life. She gets personal advise from her mother now which is a big concern of mine. Her mother has emailed me telling me what a bad person I am and what kind of guy protects an ex over the women he loves.

[TrumpetS3]

Back to the main issue to bring this story back in line, I cannot remember exactly but something triggered her emotions back to T again around 5 months after the second meeting. It was during the build up to us moving in together, below is an email from her expressing her feelings again. Even though I'd made large steps to distance my friendship with T, never saw her in person anymore, calls were perhaps once every two weeks, very few texts, but that wasn't enough for D. As you can see nothing has changed in her mind, there was no recognition for these steps I'd taken. T had to be gone 100%:

I have had plenty of time to think about us, our possible future, and what I want out of life.

I love our time together and things have been amazing while your ex was  distant to our relationship. I don't understand why you feel the need to pull her back in. I ask you to consider my position of not wanting this person you had a past sexual and emotional relationship who you are still connected to and would do anything (including ending our relationship) to maintain. The fact that it is not a simple friendship (nor could be after intending on being together as a married couple for the rest of your life) was proven when we discussed the issues w T in January. You are drawn to her for some reason and aren't willing to disconnect w her to connect w me. You divorced her. Meaning you didn't want to spend your life w her. Well I don't either.

Why have you protected her and not me in these situations?  It should have been your conversation at the restaurant about appropriate behavior and finding out how she felt about your friendship, not mine. She is your problem and you continue to drag her along in our life. Why do you think she has offered to be out of your life (and by your own admission knowing she doesn't truly mean it)? It is to feed her ego that you still want and desire her in spite of it causing hardship and possibly ending your relationship w me. This is why she feels your "friendship"superior to our relationship.

Now I'm trying to picture our life together. I believe you are my last chance at love and having a family.  I never thought these things would happen for my life and was at peace w that. I met you and my mind went wild w what our life could be. I thought of our children, home, dinners, and adventures. What I didn't count on is another woman or having to sacrifice my wants and needs to this extent.

Based on these facts it appears I am getting a pretty  please read               |ty deal in this "Life together" you would have for me.

We all have character flaws. I am working on mine and if you can work on yours, I would think we can have that beautiful life and family we talk about together. As things are now, I cannot put myself in this unhappy place w these unhappy circumstances. Yes, my heart is broken and stomach a mess from the heartbreak and anxiety, but ultimately I have to stand up for myself.



I'll now fast forward to our breakup, it was Halloween night, we were both getting ready to go to a street party. We got downtown and were having fun and standing people watching, a couple unrecognizable approach us in costumes and the girl says “hi ###”. I say hi back. D turns to me and asks “who was that?” I say “I think T and her bf”. I was just waiting for the bomb to blow but she was cool. I felt my phone vibrate a few minutes later and saw a text from T, she'd written something stupid “I hope I didn't get you into trouble but I'm not going to just ignore you if I see you out”. I was like, ok whatever, to me it was meaningless and I didn't choose to share it with D as I knew it would cause an argument.

It was getting late and we were tired so we headed home. We get in and she suddenly isn't tired even though its 1:30am and wants to stay up. I was exhausted and said “ok hun, come to bed when you're ready” and walked away. She began saying “you don't love me anymore”, I turned back to her and said “of course I do!”, I gave a her kiss and walked back to the bedroom. She said it again but I ignored it as she has these needy moments from time to time. I went to sleep, around 3am she makes a ton of noise on purpose getting into bed to wake me up. She tells me she is having anxiety, she tells me I'm hiding something from her and I must tell her everything. She says when she gets these feelings she is always right. Well she had a similar feeling a few months prior before she moved in, I got a call at 2am while in bed from her wanting to know why I didn't pickup the first two times she called. I said because is 2am, I went to bed at 11 and my phone is on 'do not disturb'. That wasn't a sufficient answer for her, she insisted I was up to something, I was lying etc. I politely said i'm going back to bed. The next morning my phone was blown up by multiple text message accusations. It took probably an hour of texting to convince her I wasn't doing anything.

So back to post Halloween, the next morning she's still on my case about hiding something. We decide to walk the dog as it was a nice day, I take a shower and we leave. During the walk she's still asking “is there anything you want to tell me, are you telling me everything?” I'm confused and say “you know everything about me babe, what's going on?” She then tells me she had been through my phone while I was in the shower, she saw the txt from T and said “you obviously can't be honest with me, you still choose to keep things from me, you continue to keep these secrets between you and your ex. I'm done, I'm moving out!” I'm in shock, I say “that txt means nothing, its meaningless!” It didn't matter though she had made up her mind, in her opinion T had sent the txt on purpose to disrespect her and to drive a wedge between us. It fueled all D's beliefs. Usually I would of fought for her and apologised and tried to make her stay, but I was so tired of the chaos and said “fine, go”. I left the house while she packed up and came home to find her gone.

At that point I was more angry and somewhat relieved, in the back of my mind I thought she would be back. We'd had so many far worse fights from which we'd recovered from. However this time was the first I'd not tried to make it make her stay. The timing sucked as the next day I was flying overseas for a week for business and some vacation. It was a good distraction and while I was there about half way through the trip I began weighing a lot of things up, you see the whole time she had me convinced I was the bad guy in all this. I was always apologizing, trying to fix her, convince her she was my priority and that I loved her more than anything. I began to think about all the bad things she'd said to me, how she had begun to make me feel flawed, I was lacking confidence and self esteem and having doubts about myself. Suddenly the penny dropped, I began googling my feelings and suddenly found out about BPD and NPD. I couldn't read about it fast enough, this girl from what I could tell displayed a large amount of BPD traits. I'd never heard of such a condition ever, it began to help me while I was away understand the craziness of my roller coaster ride relationship. I thought long and hard about what to do as we were both in NC,  I decided to send her a very tactful email indicating that I felt she may consider going to speak with someone about her feelings. She immediately retaliated and span it around on me that I need to go speak with a counselor about my dishonesty and my co-dependence with my ex. I almost expected such a reply so I played the game. The same day she unfriends me from fb, and unfriends everyone of my friends she met through me. I actually wanted to go speak with a councilor anyway to try and get these things off my chest, also to get a sounding board if you will. A problem I had while all this was going on is I don't have many close friends here to talk to, the friends I do have she didn't like and we'd often hang out with her friends. So I get back and we share quite a few messages, she is very eager for me to go speak with a councilor. She also said she was going to speak with one. When I asked her about if she would be talking about the T thing, she replied “no I doubt it, I think i'm fairly clear on that, i'd like to just go to self improve myself!” I was pretty shocked by that reply, but didn't react. During this period of us talking I expressed a lot of my feelings about the way she'd made me feel and the fact that I'd bottled a lot of it up as I was so nervous by her reactions to things, she basically laughed at me on the phone. She said “you don't really feel that way, you are just making it up to make yourself feel better!”. I couldn't believe it, now she was telling me how I felt! But I know it would of made her think as she hates to believe she is not good at something. She sent a txt later saying “if I was a narcissist then why would I cook you nice meals, buy you gifts and agree to go on your planned trips?” My reply was basically that was her high points, it was her low points that were the problem. Its obvious she doesn't understand the personality disorder traits.

Anyway I go for my first session to a DBT therapist, I wanted to speak with someone who knew about BPD / NPD, I was very organised and gave the whole account, pretty much what i've described here. It felt good to get it out. D was very pleased to hear I'd been and during that period before my second session we were getting on good, she told me she missed me and still loved me, I felt & said the same. We decided to not see each other as she felt we needed time to heal, but I felt confident D and I may get back together. I go to my second session, I give the therapist an update on things and she asks a few more things. She now knows pretty much everything. So I ask “do you think the friendship with my ex is wrong?” She said “it is unusual but all things considered being that you both came from another country, no one cheated or lied, there is no bad feeling and you are just better as friends, no not really”.

I then asked “so what do you think about D?” She replied with the fact that she likely suffers from emotional dysregulation. She recommended I read Walking on Eggshells. She then went on to explain how the mind of someone who suffers from this thinks, i.e. mostly uses just the emotional part of their mind, they cannot access the Wise or Rational parts. She explained that T was the emotional trigger, it started right back at the airport ride over a year ago. D saw T as a threat, she asked what D was like with my mother, I said fine, but I think that's because my mother is really not a confident person and not a threat to anyone. T was successful, had a good job, confident, basically she has her self together. It made a lot of sense to me. I came out of the session feeling very relieved but also very worried as I knew D would not accept the fact that the therapist did not think I had problems. As I expected, D wanted to know how it went, what was discussed, the outcome, everything. I did not want to go into it with her, so I just simply said the session went very well. I feel a lot better and I have some clarity on things. I told her I couldn't recommend going to speak with someone enough. She said a snippy response back “so just to clarify, the friendship with your ex is fine and I have a personality disorder”. I politely replied “just go speak with someone, I don't want to get into with you tonight”. She replied “I'm sorry you won't be getting the help you need, your dishonesty and emotional problem requires more than 2 sessions”

[TrumpetS3]

I left it there, I figured she needed to digest things for a while. Literally that night within an hour she emailed everyone of her fb friends that I was also friends with telling them to unfriend me! I know this as she has remained logged in on my phone from a long while ago and I still can see all her fb activity. Its a blessing and a curse! At that point she went totally NC, I firmly believe she's split me black. The only contact I've received was after I told her I'd had an accident, she said she was sorry to hear that and was glad I was ok. She stated “I'm trying to have a clean break from our relationship. We can't be friends, we can't be a couple. I need to let you go and move on”. I replied indicating I felt we'd been through far worse and I wanted to work on things. Her last reply was “Just let me go. There is nothing you can say or do at this point. I wish you the best. I will not be contacting you again”.

That was a month ago, I've tried to remain NC myself but I've really been struggling, i've emailed her a number of times, sent her a Xmas card, told her I want to talk. Nothing, she is treating me like I'm some kind of criminal. How can a girl who displays her undying love for someone suddenly turn into this emotionless, cold, un-compassionate person? I'm so confused, I love her more than anything, I keep hoping she's going to suddenly contact me and realise she's made a mistake letting me go.

At this point I don't know if she has BPD, a number of the traits from what I can see are there. There's no way she will admit to it though, she is high functioning if she does have it. She actually has a lot of friends and from the outside looking in she would be the sweetest girl you could hope to meet. Get to know her intimately and you will see a different person. A confusing aspect was she encouraged me to have friends and hobbies, she would claim to be very happy for me if I was away having fun without her. I read a lot of BP's would not cope well with this aspect. She doesn't self harm and I'm not getting the impression she's trying to replace me (remember I can see her fb, of which she is on there all the damn time!). One recent event that really hurt was she went and completed her motorcycle endorsement, she knows how much riding is part of my life, but chose not to even share that experience with me sad

So what do I do? Part of me thinks I've dodged a bullet here as she really was making me miserable, but equally I miss her terribly and this is by far the worst breakup and grieving process I've ever experienced. When she was nice, it was amazing, we also had lots of things in common, did tons of fun stuff and had the best chemistry! But her personality just had me on edge a lot of the time. I see her on fb now living her life like I never even existed, talking about how great her days been, going out all the time, going to places her and I used to go. I can't do that, I'm still too hurt, how can she?

I'd like to note, I wouldn't hesitate to remove T from my life if I thought that was the only thing that was causing our relationship problems, but as my therapist had stated, T was the emotional trigger and with her removed she believed other triggers would continue to present themselves. D blames her behavior on the way I handled T. As you can see a lot of her characteristics have nothing to do with that.

If you've made it this far I thank you, part of me writing this was to get it out and the other part to see what others think about my story and what you all suggest?

Thank you again, I look forward to some insight!

[TrumpetS3]

A quick update which I'd really appreciate some advice on!

I just logged into my laptop and went to go to yahoo. D's email account was still logged in! I just sat there trying to decide what to do, I caved... I was able to view her inbox and sent items. She's been forwarding my emails to her mother and her friend. She's drafted two emails to me (2 weeks ago) but they've not been sent. They are not complimentary, this is one of them:

You have over dramatized why our relationship is over. It all comes down to the fact that I felt your continued relationship with T was in appropriate after all she had done. She was disrespectful of me, our relationship, and truthfully of you too. She warned you in her texts: "I'm sorry if I get you into trouble, but... .(insert whatever unnecessary action she chose at the time). I took it as a direct offense to me, but looking back it was to hurt you. She knew how you felt about me and she knew what would upset me. She took advantage of that and you let her. I'm sorry you don't see it this way. That's ok. I hope you find success with someone else who this does not bother.

I am truly over you and over us. I have no desire to continue our relationship. I cannot have a friendship with you as I do not believe you treated me well as a friend.

After all has been said and done, I'm proud I did not sink to your level. Believe me when I say I wanted to curse at you & shake you into reality, but what good would have come if it? I would have only pushed you away and made you not want to work things out. Which is, ironically, where I am because of your behavior.


This is the other that she sent to a mother and friend as a fantasy email:

What I would like to send to ### as a response to his email below.

Let me help you.

First of all, Emotional Dysregulation is not a recognized disorder. It's made up. My friend is a doctor & looked up the ICD-9 codes. The closest diagnosis is this

As you can see I do not meet any of the criteria for this disorder. Nor did I ever for one moment think so. I've done my research and I'm guessing you paid the lady from shrink4men website for counseling. You're an idiot. I hope you go to a real therapist one day. Maybe you will have a chance to have a healthy relationship with someone. At 38yrs old you still haven't learned to be a man, so I won't hold my breath. I am well past over you and your disillusionment. Take a hike, f#ck off, sit and spin, kick rocks, etc. You get the point.


Its helpful to me I suppose as I can see no matter what:

1) she'll never admit to having a problem, she's spun emotional dysregulation which I told her my therapist said she had traits of spoke to some doctor who's told her its not real disorder and found an internet article that compares it to something she clearly doesn't have. I know its not place to put her straight, but I feel she should know its part of BPD!

2) she will never change her opinion of T, ever!

I'm in a dilemma of what to do, should I use this information to perhaps reach out to her? My rational mind says no, as even if I removed T from my life and I tried to get her back, would she even take me back? If she did take me back, I'd have to strike another bargain with her again and she would think she could do anything and I'd always take her back. Plus there were so many other problems which had nothing to do with T which would still be there.

But my emotional mind says, I could write to her and tell her I am willing to remove T from my life for her, tell I realize I didn't put her feelings first and should of protected her from her beliefs of T. Perhaps then she'd take me back?

I don't believe she is truly over me, its only been 2 months, that's not been long enough has it?

Please help...

[jhkbuzz]

Wow... .this is a LOT to digest... .but I think writing it all out was probably cathartic for you.  In the end, I think we have all come to our own determination about whether or not our ex's have BPD - keep educating yourself, participate in the discussion boards... .things will become clearer to you the more you do that.

Eventually, you will need to move away from questions about her and focus on your own healing.