Week of Being "Friends" With exBPDgf

[nowwhatz]

Since breaking up on "friends" terms on xmas eve here are a few things that have happened and my take.

I am holding up ok, but am staying in contact. Not sure if how well I can hold up if there is NC.

Have spent some time with her.  Had my big discussion with her last Sunday. Cleared the air.

I dropped off her meds yesterday on the way to a project. Talked with her and it seems she has been on and off her meds a lot more than I realized in the last few months which explains a few things.

Am feeling somewhat like she owes me but I know other than sex there is nothing that I can "get" from her at this time.  Even though she is very good looking I don't think her prospects of finding and maintaining a new r/s are very good. Because of that I expect her to try to keep me around or rekindle things.    I think she has dissed me to some of her family but not all are going to buy it.   I don't want her to mess up my friendship with her nephew and I don't think she can.

What time I have spent with her at her apt as "friends" has been amicable and the pressure of the r/s is gone.   She tried to guilt me about taking her phone (the one I pay for) and how it has left her unsafe etc. but I would not let her get away with that.

So far I think I have done an ok job of not getting angry and not ruminating over things that were said. The fact that she has been on and off my meds without my knowledge makes it a little easier for me not to take things personally as whatever she did or said have been and are the actions of a dysregulated crazy person.  If I see her again it won't bother me to say as much to her.

This weekend I have plans to go out tomorrow nitght with a friend to see their band and go hiking saturday morning.  The exBPDgf is all alone until sunday when her son returns from Mexico.  Will try to limit communication but something will probably come up.

[Mutt]

Why the concern if she may or may not find someone?

If you're out with friends and she's alone, why worry if something may or may not come up?

Can you have physical intimacy without emotional attachment?

[nowwhatz]

Why the concern if she may or may not find someone?

If you're out with friends and she's alone, why worry if something may or may not come up?

Can you have physical intimacy without emotional attachment?

Those are good questions.  Maybe I am concerned that she will keep trying to return to me by default   In the past when we became "friends" after the r/s broke down I always felt like and would tell her we are more than friends.  This time I do not feel that way.  I think I can stick with the we are friends refrain.   I don't want to break contact but I don't want her as a gf again.

I know she will test my attachement by asking for things. I am just going to try to say no.

It is hard to get untangled.  Mutt I think I need to sleep on it and see if I can carry out my plan tomorrow to just focus on my music production, go out with my friend tomorrow night and don't think about her.

I think I can have some physical intimacy without emotional attachment but maybe not with her.

[Mutt]

I think a choice is radical acceptance.

One way we can look at it is she has difficulties with her personal boundaries or lack of, and respecting other people's boundaries. This is a part of BPD and radically accept her as she is.

I don't think there's a right or wrong with having her as a friend. You have a history and you're not in a committed r/s. Be careful getting enmeshed in her stuff.

You can't control what she may or may not do, you can put boundaries on the self. If she does X, I respond with Y.

Food for thought.

Sleeping on it's a good idea nowwhatz.

[nowwhatz]

I think a choice is radical acceptance.

One way we can look at it is she has difficulties with her personal boundaries or lack of, and respecting other people's boundaries. This is a part of BPD and radically accept her as she is.

I don't think there's a right or wrong with having her as a friend. You have a history and you're not in a committed r/s. Be careful getting enmeshed in her stuff.

You can't control what she may or may not do, you can put boundaries on the self. If she does X, I respond with Y.

Food for thought.

Sleeping on it's a good idea nowwhatz.

Thanks so much Mutt for your insight.

Being involved with her is so confusing.

I think what you said about if she does X, I respond with Y describes what I am trying to do.  I will try to present an example where I may have been successful.

1. Christmas day I take away her phone that I pay for (samsung galaxy s5... .amazing phone!).

2. This week when I met her she complained that she has no phone and that I left her in a vulnerable position.

3. I reminded her that she wanted to give the phone back on xmas eve, I initially refused (same old stupid habit) but realized she was right to want to give the phone back. That I have the phone because it is the right thing to do.

4. I elaborated on how the phone has been a great blessing for me to help separate my work life from my personal life and referred to prior "big discussion" where I owned up  to my part of contributing to the breakdown of the r/s by being workaholic.  Said the phone was saving my life and contributing to major positive changes in my life.

5. Told her when she gets paid she can buy a cricket phone and be fine and that her inconvenience is temporary (her son returns sunday and she can use his phone etc.

End of phone conversation.

I should say that when I have seen her afterward I make it appoint to assert my independence by breaking out the amazing phone at any opportunity.

The phone has been somewhat comforting to me as I feel like I finally received something from her of value! Even though I was paying for it it was something I did not have and am lucky to have now.  If she tries to devalue me again or if I am feeling crappy from having the life sucked out of me... .the phone is always there for me

Tonight and this weekend will be a good test for me.  I have some social events lined up and hope to stay busy and around people who like me or can at least tolerate me.

[Mutt]

I think you did good on boundaries.

Let's look at this from another perspective?

You didn't rescue and give her a brand new phone. If she needs a new phone, she can provide this need for herself. You're not obligated and she's an adult and provide for herself?

I would suggest not JADE. JADE stands for Justify, Attack, Defend, Explain. Say things once and package your truth in a way she may understand a little better with SET.

SET is a communication method, Support, Empathy, Truth. Feelings = Facts.

That said. Don't JADE why you need your phone etc and package your truth at the end and validate feelings and say it once as a boundary, her needs and feelings towards what she needs are her own, as to not get enmeshed in it.

Take the high-road and don't flash the phone, no need rubbing her nose in it?

An alternative and say it in 3rd person, instead of 1st person. It's making it less personal to her.

"I understand. It can be disappointing for people when they don't have a phone or the one they desire. An option is buy a starter phone when you get paid".

I show Support at the beginning of my sentence. I show Empathy in 3rd person, as it may trigger in 1st person and package the Truth at the end.

Leave it at that.

[nowwhatz]

I think you did good on boundaries.

Let's look at this from another perspective?

You didn't rescue and give her a brand new phone. If she needs a new phone, she can provide this need for herself. You're not obligated and she's an adult and provide for herself?

I would suggest not JADE. JADE stands for Justify, Attack, Defend, Explain. Say things once and package your truth in a way she may understand a little better with SET.

SET is a communication method, Support, Empathy, Truth. Feelings = Facts.

That said. Don't JADE why you need your phone etc and package your truth at the end and validate feelings and say it once as a boundary, her needs and feelings towards what she needs are her own, as to not get enmeshed in it.

Take the high-road and don't flash the phone, no need rubbing her nose in it?

An alternative and say it in 3rd person, instead of 1st person. It's making it less personal to her.

"I understand. It can be disappointing for people when they don't have a phone or the one they desire. An option is buy a starter phone when you get paid".

I show Support at the beginning of my sentence. I show Empathy in 3rd person, as it may trigger in 1st person and package the Truth at the end.

Leave it at that.

Thanks Mutt.

Hmmm that is very interesting.

Is there a thread here that lists some common examples of SET responses?  I really appreciate your help.

I will need to read up and understand the principles behind it.

Will work on the high road as much as I can. I have a feeling I won't hear too much from her for a little while so hope to get ready when I do.

Thank you!

[Mutt]

Is there a thread here that lists some common examples of SET responses?  I really appreciate your help.

Yes  

COMMUNICATION: S.E.T. technique

Understanding JADE

Keep in mind SET doesn't always work, when it works it works well. If she's dysregulated nothing will help and it's best to stay distant and if there's something that needed taking care of, wait and approach in a few hours. An example, if my ex is emotionally dysregulated, a personal boundary for me is not to be an object for her to self sooth etc.

We're not living together, the r/s is over. I wait 24 hours until she's calmer and often, she dissociates how she felt previously and reality is different later. I re-communicate in 24 hours as a personal general rule and often she's in a better mood. Communication easier  

Changing how we communicate takes time and practice and becomes second nature. Have patience and you'll get there. For example, invalidating family members in my life when they devalue me, JADE instantly comes to mind and I don't Justify, Attack, Defend, Explain. It's their beliefs and I don't need to Defend my reality. Conflict averted.

They may test boundaries, they know I won't enable conflict. Non-resistance whereas before I became a member on bpdfamily and learned the tools, I resisted and would JADE and felt awful, now I feel peace. Control what can be controlled, ourselves.

Will work on the high road as much as I can.

 

[nowwhatz]

Is there a thread here that lists some common examples of SET responses?  I really appreciate your help.

Yes  

COMMUNICATION: S.E.T. technique

Understanding JADE

Keep in mind SET doesn't always work, when it works it works well. If she's dysregulated nothing will help and it's best to stay distant and if there's something that needed taking care of, wait and approach in a few hours. An example, if my ex is emotionally dysregulated, a personal boundary for me is not to be an object for her to self sooth etc.

We're not living together, the r/s is over. I wait 24 hours until she's calmer and often, she dissociates how she felt previously and reality is different later. I re-communicate in 24 hours as a personal general rule and often she's in a better mood. Communication easier  

Changing how we communicate takes time and practice and becomes second nature. Have patience and you'll get there. For example, invalidating family members in my life when they devalue me, JADE instantly comes to mind and I don't Justify, Attack, Defend, Explain. It's their beliefs and I don't need to Defend my reality. Conflict averted.

They may test boundaries, they know I won't enable conflict. Non-resistance whereas before I became a member on bpdfamily and learned the tools, I resisted and would JADE and felt awful, now I feel peace. Control what can be controlled, ourselves.

Will work on the high road as much as I can.

 

Thanks again Mutt!

Wow. That seems like an awful lot of work to become proficient at SET. I can see how the SET techniques can be applied in other situations as well... .not just with a BPD partner/ex etc; so maybe worth the effort to know for various situations.

The most likely thing that will happen is she will make a request to me to get or do something for her. I will try to start out thinking in 3rd person.

Hypothetically if she were to text me on messenger and say:  "I have no ride to/from work today/tomorrow. Please drive me."

How would you reply to that using SET?

[HappyNihilist]

Wow. That seems like an awful lot of work to become proficient at SET. I can see how the SET techniques can be applied in other situations as well... .not just with a BPD partner/ex etc; so maybe worth the effort to know for various situations.

Learning communication techniques like non-JADEing, active listening, SET, and DEARMAN is more than worth the effort, believe me.

When I began moving up in my career and taking leadership classes, I was amazed at how everything I was being taught was the exact same as the techniques I'd learned in my training for mental health and trauma intervention work. I use these techniques every day at work. More than that, even, they're useful in all personal relationships, too, as they improve communication.

The most likely thing that will happen is she will make a request to me to get or do something for her. I will try to start out thinking in 3rd person.

Hypothetically if she were to text me on messenger and say:  "I have no ride to/from work today/tomorrow. Please drive me."

How would you reply to that using SET?

"I understand. It's frustrating trying to secure a ride to work. Maybe a coworker could pick you up."

"I'm sorry, I understand you're worried about not having a ride. I can't drive you to work, but maybe a coworker could pick you up."

You don't need to provide any reason why you can't or won't do something. (That would be JADEing -- justifying, explaining, defending, arguing.) The focus is on validating her and getting her to take action for herself.

[Mutt]

I use these techniques every day at work. More than that, even, they're useful in all personal relationships, too, as they improve communication.

I agree. I use the communication skills that I learned for my ex at work, family members and even online dating chat sessions. BPD has taught me many practical skills that overlaps in other areas in life.

I can see how some people in the workplace are triggering in their response in emails, communicator messages, meetings etc and once you become accustomed with different communication skills, it's second nature knowing which type to use for different situations.

How we communicate goes a long way and it can soften the chances with invalidating, triggering someone disordered or non-disordered and makes communication easier. Win-win.

[nowwhatz]

Wow. That seems like an awful lot of work to become proficient at SET. I can see how the SET techniques can be applied in other situations as well... .not just with a BPD partner/ex etc; so maybe worth the effort to know for various situations.

Learning communication techniques like non-JADEing, active listening, SET, and DEARMAN is more than worth the effort, believe me.

When I began moving up in my career and taking leadership classes, I was amazed at how everything I was being taught was the exact same as the techniques I'd learned in my training for mental health and trauma intervention work. I use these techniques every day at work. More than that, even, they're useful in all personal relationships, too, as they improve communication.

The most likely thing that will happen is she will make a request to me to get or do something for her. I will try to start out thinking in 3rd person.

Hypothetically if she were to text me on messenger and say:  "I have no ride to/from work today/tomorrow. Please drive me."

How would you reply to that using SET?

"I understand. It's frustrating trying to secure a ride to work. Maybe a coworker could pick you up."

"I'm sorry, I understand you're worried about not having a ride. I can't drive you to work, but maybe a coworker could pick you up."

You don't need to provide any reason why you can't or won't do something. (That would be JADEing -- justifying, explaining, defending, arguing.) The focus is on validating her and getting her to take action for herself.

Thanks so much! I notice I do a lot of justifying and explaining to dysregulated, possibly dysregulated and non-dysregulated people with mixed results. Obviously with the exBPDgf the results are poor.

I fully expect the ride to work request to come up so I appreciate your suggestion and will try to execute it verbatim and see what happens.

It looks like I a doing better on boundaries but still explaining myself.  This happened last night when I got an out of the blue message "take me out! I'm off tomorrow"  I replied by saying "That's great you deserve a break!."  but then went on to explain that I was busy last night ... .already had plans which I told her prior, and told her what I was doing (explaining).

Then I told her "maybe tomorrow." She responded with "no. that's fine. can't tomorrow. have a good night."   I said "have a good night."

Have to get used to not explaning.

[Mutt]

It takes practice. The first step is always the hardest.

[nowwhatz]

It takes practice. The first step is always the hardest.

Thanks so much Mutt! I am staying mindful of SET... .usually after the fact i think about ways I could have communicated so will try to keep practicing.

Well I had an event with my exBPDgf.  I was out having a great time with friends and finished up. It was a little bit late but I invited the exgf to go with me to the casino. Of course she said yes and a funny thing happened.  I gave her $20 to play and she won $500   I was out of playing money so I said time to go... .she protested wanting to play more so I said if you want to stay longer give me $100 of your winnings and put away $100 so you can buy a phone.  I got a "que malo!" out of it but she did what I asked. Other than that conversation we had nothing to say to each other.  I drove her home and went home.

Then today I get a text that she has bought a phone. I am happy for her and I got $80 extra out of the deal. She won't be asking me for a phone. In a roundabout way I already got her one. I have to admit a part of me wanted to tell her to

Today I have been struggling with the loss of the r/s and feeling down, feeling like I have been damaged beyond repair and that I little or no chances of having a real r/s in the future with another person.  Not sure what brought this on.   Maybe I am missing being in love with an illusion.

I feel like my soul and excitement about life is gone.  Probably just a bad day.