This morning I got all the validation I needed

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So this morning I was on FB (I know, the dreaded trigger) It was for legitimate reasons, d14 had sent me a message, another friend wanted my new number and my mother was checking in from her trip abroad.

My FB is locked down pretty tight given the issues I had around exN/BPDw so only friends are able to send messages etc... .However, I noticed that there is a filter similar to a block filter so people can still send messages, they just don't show. What I found in there was a message from one of my exBPDgf's friends from early last year and that she did try and reach out to me. Here's the thing, knowing what I know now and how things have evolved, I'm actually thankful for the message as it had provided validation and confirmed what I already suspect is going to happen next.

Had I seen the message at the time, I most likely would have dismissed it given how things were at the time. There was a post on these boards a couple of weeks ago asking if "replacements" receive the same treatment, I think this answers the question as here was the message I was sent:

"Good luck your going to need it it won't be long b4 she's making s**t up about you like she's done with all of her other blokes and there have been a lot of them, ask D*** W*****, R****, I****, they are just the recent ones and after a while she,LL be messaging them all again at stupid hours in the morning, keep an eye when she's on the phone, You seem like a really great guy so I just hope you realise what's she's like before its to late"

[Ripped Heart]

So this morning I was on FB (I know, the dreaded trigger) It was for legitimate reasons, d14 had sent me a message, another friend wanted my new number and my mother was checking in from her trip abroad.

My FB is locked down pretty tight given the issues I had around exN/BPDw so only friends are able to send messages etc... .However, I noticed that there is a filter similar to a block filter so people can still send messages, they just don't show. What I found in there was a message from one of my exBPDgf's friends from early last year and that she did try and reach out to me. Here's the thing, knowing what I know now and how things have evolved, I'm actually thankful for the message as it had provided validation and confirmed what I already suspect is going to happen next.

Had I seen the message at the time, I most likely would have dismissed it given how things were at the time. There was a post on these boards a couple of weeks ago asking if "replacements" receive the same treatment, I think this answers the question as here was the message I was sent:

"Good luck your going to need it it won't be long b4 she's making s**t up about you like she's done with all of her other blokes and there have been a lot of them, ask D*** W*****, R****, I****, they are just the recent ones and after a while she,LL be messaging them all again at stupid hours in the morning, keep an eye when she's on the phone, You seem like a really great guy so I just hope you realise what's she's like before its to late"

[Ripped Heart]

So the rabbit hole delves deeper. Just had a conversation with ex-friend, some of it triggering, some of it created a bit more pain but overall, it's enforced what I either already knew or suspected as well as what may be around the corner. If anything it has removed any and all doubt in my mind and strengthened my resolve.

Like many here, we do question why we remain in these relationships. I know from myself that I fall into co-dependent cycles and then you start to question yourself and wonder if the other person was the normal one and that it's you with the problem. I think that's why a lot of us on here compare stories to try and seek that validation that the other person fits a pattern and that maybe it's not us after all. Obviously we have our part to play in why we allowed it to happen or go on as long as it did. Likewise, despite some of that validation from patterns, we still question ourselves because our loved ones are very different people and we can all associate with certain traits and elements.

For those of you who have spoken to friends and family members of your pwBPD, it may feel a little more validating because you are observing the same person and drawing similar conclusions. As with my Aspergers, I have to draw conclusions from facts and logic rather than emotion. It's easier for me to work with and I can get very tied up around trying to figure out emotions.

As for ex-friend, she was a friend for many years and the reason for her being painted black, she had a mutual friend who exBPDgf set her sights on but when he wasn't interested, it must have been because something was going on with ex-friend despite the fact she is happily married and very stable. So friend was painted black and would receive abusive texts and phone calls at all hours of the day and night until she decided to stop contact and step away from the craziness. Also to bear in mind, this woman knows nothing about BPD only the observations and patterns she has seen because many of exBPDgf's boyfriends are also friends of hers.

So what I learned in my conversation:

1) exBPDgf has several dating sites on the go (I kind of knew she hadn't deactivated them)

2) When she dysregulates, she immediately goes through a list of ex-boyfriends and when none of them respond back, she picks someone at random from dating website

3) Advised to change my phone number because it's not IF she will be in contact it's WHEN

4) Whenever she changes her phone number, she sends it out to ALL ex boyfriends as well (The ex with the RO, I did question how he managed to get hold of her new number, now I know)

5) She is a very disliked individual, people often talk about her because she has caused a lot of trouble in the past and then acts like there is nothing wrong

6) Has to be the centre of attention and in the middle of a crisis. If there isn't any, she will create it herself at any cost.

7) Will put her friends right in the middle of her dramas and once over, will cast them aside

8) Never really gets past 3-6 months in a r/s and is usually desperately trying to contact ex-boyfriends within a month. Appears I was the exception because we lasted 11 months and it was 7 months before she started making contact with exes. Still, same pattern repeated regardless of time frame.

9) If exes are in new relationships, she tries to break them up

10) Is not that intelligent to be creative so her relationships all have the exact same story and same ending

11) Was extremely disliked where she used to work because she would try it on with husbands in front of their wives and then wonder why they were getting upset.

12) It was her rapid switch between raging and abusive to being smiley and friendly at the flick of a switch. The refusal to acknowledge her actions is what people disliked about her. If they tried to raise it with her, she would turn it back on them and become the "victim"

13) Self-pity, lying, manipulative, all about her are just some of the words, most of the village use to describe her.

14) She makes a lot of enemies wherever she goes and very few friends.

15) Half the people on her friends list on FB have a severe dislike of her. Their reason for being there is they can tell from her status updates when she is about to errupt and use it to know when to go into hiding (ex boyfriends included)

So given all of that comes from someone who has never even heard the term BPD, as I said in my first message, I'm so glad I didn't speak to this friend at the start otherwise I wouldn't have believed any of it. Having lived it, her friend (and most of the village) had her summed up pretty well. There are points on that list I can relate to and others that I can't because they were so very well hidden and perhaps explains some of the compartmentalisation.

If there is one thing that strikes me from all of this, is that from day 1 the relationship was always doomed to fail even if it had the very best intentions in the world and I'd been the world richest man and greatest lover. Here's why I think that to be the case:

The relationship was based on a "Need" she needed to be loved and in turn I needed to give loved. That part was genuine on both our ends, nothing superficial and the start of something we both felt was great. However, behind all of that way a great wave of lies that were used to draw me in. As feelings developed for her, there was always that constant battle that it was built on lies. In her mind, if I got too close and discovered the truth, there was a chance I would abandon her or a chance I wouldn't trust her. So I was never allowed to get too close but she spun those lies to get the love she desperately craved. Keeping me away from the other drama meant there was never a chance I could cross paths with the truth. But it started to take it's toll on her because it takes a lot of effort to keep the mis-truths up and most of your past split into separate boxes. Eventually little bits started to seep through and when challenged about it, she started to lose control. Once you knock the stack of boxes, it's only a matter of time before they all come crashing down.

The final part and perhaps the most disturbing of all.

Ex-boyfriend before the last one, she actually had him arrested and locked up for Christmas 2013 for setting fire to her car. After Christmas when police managed to get CCTV footage, the only person that had been near her car was her.

The next ex-boyfriend has an RO.

So that is all the evidence I need that I'm dealing with quite a dangerous and unhinged individual. Thankfully, I have a lot of evidence to show I've not done anything bad by her or to hurt her in any way, evidence that would stand up in a court should she try taking the same route with me. If she tries anything like that, I will quickly turn the tables but it gives me all I need to think and feel in those moments of weakness when I wonder about breaking NC.

[JohnLove]

WOW, Ripped Heart. Just WOW.

[patientandclear]

Ripped ... . 

This is a lot. I'm SO glad you've gained the clarity you have. On the Leaving board someone just posted about going "pain shopping," meaning, finding key though hurtful information that helps protect us from sliding into fantasy about how it was or could be. I think you're making good use of your pain shopping.

If you look back at your posts from Christmas, just 10 days ago, you've come an enormous distance. Don't be surprised if it gets harder and sadder when the adrenaline from your decisions wears off. The fact that it feels hard and sad doesn't mean it's wrong. It would be hard and sad to stay too, just in a different and more compromised and corrupted way.

I think you've overcome the overcompensation for Asperger's you were doing, where you were assuming things made sense emotionally even though they didn't actually make sense to you. You're using logic and trusting your senses and your gut reactions again. Not dismissing them because they don't match her feelings and actions. That makes me so happy!

[Ripped Heart]

Ripped ... . 

This is a lot. I'm SO glad you've gained the clarity you have. On the Leaving board someone just posted about going "pain shopping," meaning, finding key though hurtful information that helps protect us from sliding into fantasy about how it was or could be. I think you're making good use of your pain shopping.

If you look back at your posts from Christmas, just 10 days ago, you've come an enormous distance. Don't be surprised if it gets harder and sadder when the adrenaline from your decisions wears off. The fact that it feels hard and sad doesn't mean it's wrong. It would be hard and sad to stay too, just in a different and more compromised and corrupted way.

I think you've overcome the overcompensation for Asperger's you were doing, where you were assuming things made sense emotionally even though they didn't actually make sense to you. You're using logic and trusting your senses and your gut reactions again. Not dismissing them because they don't match her feelings and actions. That makes me so happy!

Once the emotion is removed, all that is left is the logic.

I've learned so much more this afternoon that I realise I never even knew the person I was sharing a bed with. Been contacted by a couple of ex-boyfriends of hers who had bad experiences following their break-up and ideally it's not what I want but it is giving me more insight.

I don't want to be part of a "club" bashing her, I know she has BPD, they don't. To them she is just a run of the mill psychopath. It's hard not to have empathy and sympathy for her given all I've learned and I will be perfectly honest and say I do still care about her a lot. As you mentioned on a previous post about taking your ex back. I would still do that in a heartbeat BUT there would be conditions, I wouldn't even entertain the prospect of even engaging her without her being in therapy and not just a promise of it.

That's the difficult part for me right now because the more I learn, the more I'm aware, the more I realise I never knew her. But yet there is still a part of me that wants to rescue her, as though somewhere deep down there were moments when she was genuine.

One thing I found out today from one ex-boyfriend is that he gave her a key to his house. After he ended things and about a week of NC, she went round to his house and smashed the place up. I worry because she has a key to mine too and it's a digital key so not as easy as just changing the locks. I did ask for the key back the other night and she said she would post it.

I've no reason to doubt what people have said because I've seen her in a destructive rage and it's thrown me back a bit when I did because she is a completely different person. I think I mentioned in 1 post about her tearing up a car log book because she felt wronged by someone who was trying to help her. I've seen her throw things away simply because she felt irritated but then greatly upset afterwards because they were things she needed. I've seen photographs where she has cut out her friends faces because they had a falling out and I've seen damage around her house which she was unable to explain.

As you all know, a few months ago I bought her a car which I knew was going to be her hook. I told her that it was a gift and one day when she finds her happiness, to repay that favour by helping someone else in need.

What I found out today, is that a previous ex-boyfriend also bought her a car. Well his dad loaned her the money to buy it and she never repayed a penny. The man passed away without receiving anything from her and when she found out about his death, she contacted her ex boyfriend and was angry at him because she still had a debt outstanding. She told him that he was a murdering b******* and that it was his fault his father was dead. This was the day after he died.

I've been warned to keep friends and family away from her at all costs, if I do start dating again and she finds out she has sent nasty and abusive text messages to people, messages to the new girlfriends of others that they are being cheated on with her.

A week ago I saw a very vulnerable, hurt and upset adult child who I desperately wanted to wrap in my arms and let her know everything was going to be ok. Now I'm finding out about the person behind the mask and if anything boundaries are popping up everywhere right now. I secretly hoped she would text these past couple of days, now I'm starting to feel a little dread if she does.

[FoolishMan]

She sounds like she may be a psychopath.

No matter what the conditions you impose upon her, she is very low functioning, it will tear you apart trying to help her.

[patientandclear]

If you line up the themes in what you just wrote, logic will assist in showing that they don't square up.

"I would take her back in a heartbeat if she were in therapy."

And/but

"I never really knew the person I was sharing a bed with."

Who really IS she under all the coping mechanisms including charm and seduction? There may not be an answer to that question. So, gently, I want to urge you to scrutinize your belief that you would take her back in a heartbeat. I would guess that impulse comes from some left-over beliefs you haven't had a chance to re-evaluate yet: that what you two had was special; and that there is a wonderful person in there who is just sort of compromised by the disorder.

Her mean, selfish acts are as much a part of her as any sweetness you experienced. You might read Jeffrey Young's articles on schema treatment and see that, in a real sense, this woman has several parts and they are all really here and they are not going anywhere fast.

I also suspect you are in shock from the new information and haven't been able to fully absorb and integrate it.  My ex was astonishingly good at compartmentalizing information so it was hard to check his story and unlikely that contrary information would surface. I was lucky that I had enough mutual friends who could help me line up what he painted for me and what had actually happened with others, so I could see the picture he gave me was very misleading. Many people don't have that kind of information--you and I are lucky that people who know the rest of the story are sharing with us.

But there is an incredible pull to the idea that still somehow we are special and the r/ship is special and more beautiful at its core than these tawdry other stories that occurred with others.

After a while I realized about all that was "special" is that I would keep letting him back in. I was special or making myself special because I would endure betrayal and being taken for granted and others did not.

Then I had to decide that was not the kind of special I wanted to be.

All of this is to say that I think you are still super vulnerable to sentimental thinking -- anyone would be at this juncture, this has all gone very fast -- and I hope you'll carefully test ANY assumptions you think you want to make about what you would want with her and what you'd be willing to do. As you say, she will be back. Please guard yourself against wishful thinking and give time for this new reality you've learned to possibly affect your feelings for her.

For me that has taken a really really long time. What's weird is that I came to love this man based on a largely false and highly manipulated picture of who he was. He pretended to share my values which include being committed and true. He isn't committed and true and now he mocks those values. So why can't I back out of my feelings knowing they were procured with fraud? Feelings don't work that way, is part of the answer; but another part has to do with betrayal bonding, where I desperately want him to make the betrayal not true by undoing the hurt somehow. When you are waiting for her to text, I suspect that's in play: you have a magical wish that she will un-hurt you. At least I did for a long time.

"Mental health is choosing reality over comfort."

[hope2727]

Please change your locks. Please. I can not tell you how dangerous it is to have no personal security. It is highly unhealthy. Its the most basic of boundaries. What is the cost of your safety, reputation, a criminal record perhaps? Its not worth it. Read some of the other horror stories people have endured and don't become one.

[Ripped Heart]

It's really been a day of it. I'm so sorry everyone for the length of my posts, when my head starts to fill up I just have to get it all down on paper.

PatientandClear, that's exactly the contradiction I'm working through at the moment. In a heartbeat I would take her back right now and yes, I don't even know who she is anymore. I think that speaks more about me and the question isn't about taking back an abuser, it's about why I still feel the urge to jump in and save her. Basically, it screams at me, that here is a stranger with an issue, jump in to danger and save her. I guess back to being an Army Medic again 

Hope, changing the locks on the door is the simple part, however it I live in a modern upmarket complex with extra security features. I can't change the entire security system so she could still get all the way in to my front door. However, there are also cameras so would be easy to prove it was her. Never been in trouble with the law and given the conversations today and also before that to be honest, I am stacking all my evidence together and keeping a copy in cloud storage too. I have every email and every text, bank statements, online payments etc... .all saved away so there is very little she can do around those.

I also have several friends who are police officers who at a function a couple of weeks ago my exBPDgf told them about how she spent the weekend running around to obtain fake ID for her D17 so she could go out underage drinking. Doesn't really do her any favours so if things do go south, it might be a small inconvenience but there is plenty to turn the tables.

Also, one final bit of validation for the day. 3 days NC and then a text message. I have no idea what it says but now have the most annoying phone, I actually get a message to tell me that my phone has blocked a message. Since gf is the only one on block, it can only be from her. Got to find where to switch that off on my phone because I don't need reminders that my phone is doing it's job 

[eyvindr]

Ripped Heart,

I'm sorry, man. That's an awful lot to come to terms with. I'm sorry that this relationship hasn't held up to the promise you thought it had. It's heartbreaking.

Patientandclear's reply is full of hard-earned wisdom. (Highlights mine.)

Who really IS she under all the coping mechanisms including charm and seduction? There may not be an answer to that question. So, gently, I want to urge you to scrutinize your belief that you would take her back in a heartbeat. I would guess that impulse comes from some left-over beliefs you haven't had a chance to re-evaluate yet: that what you two had was special; and that there is a wonderful person in there who is just sort of compromised by the disorder.

Her mean, selfish acts are as much a part of her as any sweetness you experienced. You might read Jeffrey Young's articles on schema treatment and see that, in a real sense, this woman has several parts and they are all really here and they are not going anywhere fast.

Understanding this is, I think, key to our healing progress. Because our feelings are tied to what we thought were truths -- aspects of our partners that they conveyed to us as being authentic (in other words, real) -- it's very difficult after the fact to just re-label the feelings associated with the aspects. Does that make sense? We thought these characteristics were real, so we developed real feelings about them. Then they turn out to have been projections of our own feelings for our partners. While we can recognize them in hindsight as such, the feelings we had for them before we knew this don't change. If they did, this would all be a lot easier for us.

As an aside, patient -- I'm very intrigued by the schema therapy ideas, but have been frustrated by not being able to find a therapist who has any experience with it. The closest I've found are people using the Imago approach. Can you share more? Feel free to message me, if you prefer.

Apologies for that, Ripped -- this is your thread. Again, I think patient's words here are so on the mark:

After a while I realized about all that was "special" is that I would keep letting him back in. I was special or making myself special because I would endure betrayal and being taken for granted and others did not.

Then I had to decide that was not the kind of special I wanted to be.

So, so true. We need to direct that compassion that we've lauded so selflessly onto our partners to ourselves instead.

This is an awful thing to go through, but now you know. You have some answers. And some new questions -- but a new starting point for understanding what has happened to you and how it happened. This thread may provide some additional insights.

Hang in there.

Ev.

[Blimblam]

Ripped heart

Be very carefull with this one she sounds dangerously low functioning. I know you have wishful thoughts about her but she will likely get worst as she gets older.  If you decide you accept her as she is after time has gone by and are willing to out up with her behavior that's your choice a kind of noble sacrifice I suppoce but if she's like this while not addicted to hard drugs or booze than the outlook is tragically not good for her. It doesn't have to be for you too.