How come she never apologized to my face?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

- Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.

- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure.

- I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect.

- December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship.

- She cries and says she's sorry some more.

- I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year.

- I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past.

Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one.

[paperlung]

- Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.

- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure.

- I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect.

- December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship.

- She cries and says she's sorry some more.

- I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year.

- I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past.

Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one.

[SlyQQ]

Real and genuine are Key words somehow you have to seperate her saying something to get what she wants to her saying sorry and meaning it is this your goal?

[letmeout]

She obviously wants you back in her life and she was willing to say anything to accomplish that. Do they really feel remorse? From my own experience with my BPD they honestly can't. In their minds, they are not at fault for their own behavior, therefore they didn't do anything wrong. At least that is how my ex explained it.

Their reality is not the same as our reality.

[SlyQQ]

As an aside to this my Ex BPD cried for about a week on an off ( she was in hospital and the psyche staff informed me of mthis an how "sorry" she was ) But it was not what i would call sorry I have also read somewhere where a BPD person put themselves into a crying phase ( similar apparently to that of my ex) an vowed never to do it again because she found it so hard to shake so be careful manipulation is not being sorry nor is being ashamed ( for getting caught ) 

[paperlung]

She obviously wants you back in her life and she was willing to say anything to accomplish that. Do they really feel remorse? From my own experience with my BPD they honestly can't. In their minds, they are not at fault for their own behavior, therefore they didn't do anything wrong. At least that is how my ex explained it.

Their reality is not the same as our reality.

I think she feels bad for what she did to me, I really do. I guess I just would've liked to have seen it with my own eyes instead of through text. I mean, we hadn't seen each other in over a year, you'd think that spark something in her to look me in the eyes and say, "I am SO sorry for what I did to you."

[Mutt]

Hi paperlung,

I'm sorry to hear she's not quite giving you what you expect. It's hard.

I can relate. About 3 months ago I got an apology from my ex. She simply said "Mutt, I'm sorry things happened this way."

I got that after two years. Affair, divorce, custody battle, bankruptcy. Honestly, I think she meant it and I think it's as good as it's going to get. I don't think she understands her behaviors.

For example, much of what she had done was lack of impulse control, understanding the consequences of one's actions and the damage black and white thinking can do to families.

I was surprised and I take the apology as is. That being said, she's undiagnosed and not in therapy. I have my boundaries. I have my voice recorder, communicate by email to track and parallel parent. I can't risk getting in trouble with the law if she dissociates.

I have to be able to protect my kids, they come first in my books. Her apology brought a little peace. I still remember the hell I went through after the break-up and I'm disinterested in being friends for now and we're done. I don't go back to past loves disordered or not. It's a choice.

[SlyQQ]

Are you brave enough to ask her in person? this is a very volatile course of action if you do

[paperlung]

Hi paperlung,

I'm sorry to hear she's not quite giving you what you expect. It's hard.

I can relate. About 3 months ago I got an apology from my ex. She simply said "Mutt, I'm sorry things happened this way."

I got that after two years. Affair, divorce, custody battle, bankruptcy. Honestly, I think she meant it and I think it's as good as it's going to get. I don't think she understands her behaviors.

For example, much of what she had done was lack of impulse control, understanding the consequences of one's actions and the damage black and white thinking can do to families.

I was surprised and I take the apology as is. That being said, she's undiagnosed and not in therapy. I have my boundaries. I have my voice recorder, communicate by email to track and parallel parent. I can't risk getting in trouble with the law if she dissociates.

I have to be able to protect my kids, they come first in my books. Her apology brought a little peace. I still remember the hell I went through after the break-up and I'm disinterested in being friends for now and we're done. I don't go back to past loves disordered or not. It's a choice.

I'll take what I got, I guess. She did apologize (more than once) and tell me how much she regrets what happened.

Are you brave enough to ask her in person?

this is a very volatile course of action if you do

I'm not seeing or speaking to her anymore again (my choice). I didn't like what I saw and heard from her. If I continued to talk/see her, I know my feelings for her would've grown and destroyed me. So... .I ran.

[Infared]

- Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.

- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure.

- I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect.

- December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship.

- She cries and says she's sorry some more.

- I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year.

- I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past.

Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one.

Yeah... .well... .I guess you could speak up sincerely and tell her how much it would mean to you to have a meaningful face-to-face apology... .and to say how healing it would be for you.

I never got anything, no admission, no apology, NOTHING... .I understand your sorrow... .but I want you to also feel good about the fact that you got a lot more than many of us here.

People tend to avoid things that they are ashamed of.

[letmeout]

I'm not seeing or speaking to her anymore again (my choice). I didn't like what I saw and heard from her. If I continued to talk/see her, I know my feelings for her would've grown and destroyed me. So... .I ran.

I understand, my ex keeps trying to find ways to communicate with me, but I keep running from it. I refuse to break no-contact for my own health and well being.

[bunnyrabit]

I wouldn't worry about that too much. I got plenty of apologies only for her to do same thing that she was apologizing for again the next day... .It's only words, with BPD they usually don't mean anything. If you and I are really sorry about something we'd make sure to never make the same mistake again, we wouldn't even need words.BPD's they say one thing and let their actions contradict it, every time again. These people, they don't make sense... .

[paperlung]

I wouldn't worry about that too much. I got plenty of apologies only for her to do same thing that she was apologizing for again the next day... .It's only words, with BPD they usually don't mean anything. If you and I are really sorry about something we'd make sure to never make the same mistake again, we wouldn't even need words.BPD's they say one thing and let their actions contradict it, every time again. These people, they don't make sense... .

Ain't that the truth.

[JRT]

- Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.

- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure.

- I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect.

- December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship.

- She cries and says she's sorry some more.

- I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year.

- I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past.

Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one.

I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary?

[paperlung]

- Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.

- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure.

- I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect.

- December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship.

- She cries and says she's sorry some more.

- I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year.

- I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past.

Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one.

I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary?

That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell.

[Infared]

- Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.

- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure.

- I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect.

- December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship.

- She cries and says she's sorry some more.

- I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year.

- I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past.

Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one.

I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary?

That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell.

Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring.

At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text.  

[JRT]

- Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.

- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure.

- I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect.

- December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship.

- She cries and says she's sorry some more.

- I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year.

- I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past.


Trust me, I am not trying to defend her. But given that it is difficult to apologize for may people ESPECIALLY BPD's (I would take any apology even if came through a third party or carrier pigeon, 3 months later and mine still rages after HER disappearing act). If you you would like for it to work out, it might be helpful to that end to consider the phone apologies a good first step.

Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one.

I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary?

That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell.

[fred6]

Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring.

At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text.  

No sir, that would be me. I got a couple of small "I'm sorry" comments in a dismissive disgusted tone when I confronted her a couple times. The only semi-sincere apologies that I got were in the form of text messages. If  I could figure out how to post them, I would. Just to give you guys a glimpse into my ex's idea of an apology.

[JRT]

Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring.

At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text.  

No sir, that would be me. I got a couple of small "I'm sorry" comments in a dismissive disgusted tone when I confronted her a couple times. The only semi-sincere apologies that I got were in the form of text messages. If  I could figure out how to post them, I would. Just to give you guys a glimpse into my ex's idea of an apology.

I would be interested in seeing them... .if you can send the texts to your email address, you can then copy and paste them.

[wanttoknowmore]

Saying sorry in clear manner means they are defective... .And defective means they are totally BAD... .WHY? Because pwBPD can only think in All OR None manner.   They want to say sorry but it is extremely difficult for them so they say it in a very vague ,unclear way. Mine said " I was trying to protect you from my craziness" and I take it as apology. Its a very big deal for them even to acknowledge that there is something wrong with their head ... although deeper down they are aware that there is something wrong. IMO... expecting a clear apology from a pwBPD is not a good idea as you won't get it... .OR  even if you get it ... it would come at  the cost of further damage to their already broken self esteem.  Just be kind and let go

there is no need to ask clear apology.

[paperlung]

- Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.

- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure.

- I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect.

- December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship.

- She cries and says she's sorry some more.

- I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year.

- I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past.

Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one.

I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary?

That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell.

Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring.

At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text.  

She did. She sent my an apology email three months out of the relationship. A year of NC, we text and she says she's sorry again and that she feels bad for what she had done to me.

Another thing that kind of bugged me when we met up after two years is how little questions she asked me other than how my family is doing and, of course, how many girls I've hooked up with since we broke up. Nothing like, "Have gone anywhere interesting? Learned anything new? Picked up any new hobbies? Ect." If we weren't reminiscing, it was 90% about her and the drama she had been through over the year after we broke up.

[JRT]

To me, THAT would be bothersome. Looking back at my relationship, mine really didn't care about anything that wasn't obvious. The worn out phrase, 'she really wasn't that into you' comes to mind when I think about it. That's because BPD's are into themselves, their shame, their anger, their survival... .It would jsust seem to me that she did nothing to attend to her dysfunction while she was away... .you are just gonna get the same BS... .its a standard recycle... .beware!

... .fact of the matter is, that mine was into nothing... .no hobbies... .no passions... .no interests... .no goals... .nothing (with the exception of food. The food channel was ALWAYS on even though she rarely cooled and the only thing that she would watch and when we did anything, even vacation, it was around eating out).

[paperlung]

To me, THAT would be bothersome. Looking back at my relationship, mine really didn't care about anything that wasn't obvious. The worn out phrase, 'she really wasn't that into you' comes to mind when I think about it. That's because BPD's are into themselves, their shame, their anger, their survival... .It would jsust seem to me that she did nothing to attend to her dysfunction while she was away... .you are just gonna get the same BS... .its a standard recycle... .beware!

... .fact of the matter is, that mine was into nothing... .no hobbies... .no passions... .no interests... .no goals... .nothing (with the exception of food. The food channel was ALWAYS on even though she rarely cooled and the only thing that she would watch and when we did anything, even vacation, it was around eating out).

That's why I emailed a week ago saying I didn't want to talk to or see her anymore. I didn't like what I saw or heard from her when we caught up, and knew that if I continued to text/see her, it would be trouble. I didn't want to risk catching feelings for someone like her again. She hasn't tried to contact me since, but I know she is occupied with a new toy who she seems to be idealizing at the moment. I don't think she'll ever change her behavior.

[JRT]

As I have been thinking about it, if mine bothers to contact me every again, my question to her would be, 'ok, what have you been doing to deal with your problem?' If the answer is nothing, I know that I would be setting myself up for more of the same.

At the same time, I really think that part of being decent would be to tell them this sort of thing rather than not speak to them or not give them for what your decision happens to be.

[paperlung]

As I have been thinking about it, if mine bothers to contact me every again, my question to her would be, 'ok, what have you been doing to deal with your problem?' If the answer is nothing, I know that I would be setting myself up for more of the same.

At the same time, I really think that part of being decent would be to tell them this sort of thing rather than not speak to them or not give them for what your decision happens to be.

Mine talked a lot of crap about getting on-going help/therapy once moving back here (where I live). Since being back, she has done nothing but fool around with guys on POF/Tinder. When I asked her if she was still going to get therapy she said something like, "Oh, I don't think I need it now. I was just really stressed out the last couple of months before moving back here." She also claims she's going to be going to college this April for a Veterinary Assistant program. I know she probably won't do it, though. She's got really bad anxiety and she dropped out of high school in Grade 8. I even told her to do some volunteer work in the meantime with animals to pass the time and she said she wasn't sure she could because of her anxiety. If she can't handle volunteering for maybe like an hour or two a week, there is no way she's going to be able to handle a 5-day-a-week, full-time program for 6 months. All she does is blow hot air.

[JRT]

Those are some serious red flags paper.

Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way.

I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist.

[paperlung]

Those are some serious red flags paper.

Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way.

I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist.

Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends.   

Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious."   

Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit.

[Ripped Heart]

I understand your pain and frustration paperlung.

My gf can apologise in a text, she can do it in email. if it's a minor thing, such as a nasty comment, she can even apologise to your face. However, if it's something major she cannot do it in person and she can't even do it over the phone.

You have been through a lot over the past couple of years and have every right to be angry. It sounds like you fall into a similar trap to what I do. They do something wrong, you question it, she apologises by text. You accept it initially and then realise that frustration has not gone because it's not good enough. You want a sincere apology because there is no tone in a text, so we can only apply our own tone to the message. It could be seen as insincere, sarcastic or simply a default reaction to an incident. It's not good enough, we want to see and hear they are actually sorry but in their minds, they have already apologised and moved on beyond that.

I think in these circumstances it's us that need to change. It's us that need to say we can't accept their apology by text or email until we hear it from them in person (or if you can accept it, over the phone) we need that validation for our own peace of mind. However, in a relationship or friendship with a pwBPD, we have to accept there can be limitations it's whether we are happy to accept those limitations.

[JRT]

Those are some serious red flags paper.

Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way.

I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist.

Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends.   

Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious."   

Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit.

Holy Cow! Why in the world would she be showing you photos of her new BF's? Its totally inappropriate and goes to show you how little concept she has of your feelings.

[JRT]

Ripped... .you made me think of my ex and apologies... .I recall the only time that she had apologized for anything, ever. It was an accident but she knocked my expensive camera off of a bartop and crashing to the floor. It destroyed a component and I was not happy. Even though it was an accident, it was a bit careless and caused damaged. Even though I didn't abuse her and just told her to be more careful, she defended herself pretty ardently. It was only after 10 minutes or so that she offered me a sincere apology... .it seemed like it was the toughest thing she ever had to do. Is that a BPD thing? 

[Infared]

Those are some serious red flags paper.

Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way.

I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist.

Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends.   

Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious."   

Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit.

Their level of self-involvement and total lack of any kind of empathy never ceases to amaze me. This is a sign of serious metal illness, no?