Re: Inside thew mind oF a BPD

[AwakenedOne]

Some of that explanation I dont buy into at all. For example:

"Chaos and change are ironically my comfort zones."

My ex hated chaos and change. She spoke in depth on that subject many times. I don't believe for one moment that was her comfort zone. Chaos and change was her out of control zone where she became dangerous.

Concerning the innocence of flirting and having crushes on others while dating us:

"I'm not planning to hook-up with any of them, so what's the problem? I love you, you know that."

Um... .plenty of stories here on the Leaving Board of you hooking up with them.

[JRT]

My ex THRIVED on chaos... .she was entirely unhappy without it... .she checked her work and personal email accounts OBSESSIVELY for any signs of it to act upon and was most comfortable dealing with it... .a slow day at work-TORTURE... .best if it was insanely busy and her boss was screaming at her.

She was also most at home with her son when he was messing up at school or giving her a hard time (80% of our conversations were about him and his dysfunctions)... .it was then that she was acting most 'normal'

Looking back, the times that everything was placid and going well from my perspective, were the times that she had the deepest and most quiet anxiety.

[enlighten me]

Same with both my exs. If their life wasnt like a soap opera they had to create drama. I think normality just gave them too much time to think. My poor mother in law gets my exwife on the phone for an hour or more every day with her moans about the world and his dog. They can never have a good day it has to be terrible or awesome.

[drummerboy]

Different experience here. My ex's life was non stop chaos, drama and turmoil, almost all of it self created. She was even aware of it, she used to say "I'm a master at self sabotage" it was as if she was highly suspicious of calm, turmoil was her natural state. She couldn't sit still and was always thinking about the next thing, could never just enjoy the moment. Their lives must be so tiring to live.

Some of that explanation I dont buy into at all. For example:

"Chaos and change are ironically my comfort zones."

My ex hated chaos and change. She spoke in depth on that subject many times. I don't believe for one moment that was her comfort zone. Chaos and change was her out of control zone where she became dangerous.

Concerning the innocence of flirting and having crushes on others while dating us:

"I'm not planning to hook-up with any of them, so what's the problem? I love you, you know that."

Um... .plenty of stories here on the Leaving Board of you hooking up with them.

[paperlung]

My ex and I never fought (until I found out she was cheating). I remember one time she wished we would get into a fight so that we could then have make up sex. She was so weird.

[JRT]

she and I NEVER fought unless it was pre or post recycle... .it was most unusual.

[Infern0]

What a load of trash

[Springle]

See, I think this article is totally ridiculous.

We all make choices. Having a mental health condition does not make one a complete slave to it; it does not make us into some zombie.

PwBPD, just like those without, make certain choices. And it seems, especially when taking into account this particular piece, the majority of those with BPD seem to make the choice to hurt people and be destructive towards them. Even this article is written in a sense that devoids the author of responsibility. As if to say 'it's not my fault! I have BPD! You have to just deal with it'.

I say, do not be so preposterous. It is equally your responsibility to, not just acknowledge, but to address, learn and grow from your faults. It is not your fault you have this condition however it is your fault in choosing to lump it's negative effects and responsibility on others and if you chose not to address it, then I can equally chose not to deal with it/you in any way shape or form.

[JRT]

I would agree... .but this is one of the dynamics with which I have been struggling... .understanding that it is a mental illness to the extent that she herself has no idea why she behaves this way coupled with the enormous amount of pain that those same actions have directed against my daughter and I. Sometimes I feel sorry for her and want to help her while at others, I feel taht every bad thing that has ever happened to her and all those that are tyet to come are well deserved.

[myself]

"Nothing Personal" even though most of it is specifically aimed at someone.

[JRT]

I can't think of anything that could be more personal.

[Rise]

We all make choices. Having a mental health condition does not make one a complete slave to it; it does not make us into some zombie.

PwBPD, just like those without, make certain choices. And it seems, especially when taking into account this particular piece, the majority of those with BPD seem to make the choice to hurt people and be destructive towards them. Even this article is written in a sense that devoids the author of responsibility. As if to say 'it's not my fault! I have BPD! You have to just deal with it'.

I'm not always sure that it's a black and white, "they get to choose", sort of thing. I suffer from ADD. If I'm not on my medication, I lack the ability to focus on things that do not hold my attention. I know it may be important. I know that bad things may happen if I don't focus. I can consciously tell myself, that above everything else in the world, I need to focus on this one thing. And it doesn't really matter. I literally lack the capacity to focus on something uninteresting for any extended amount of time. To a certain extent, I really am a slave to it. I don't have a choice in having it, or how it's going to affect my life. I don't know that BPD is that different. A person with BPD has to choose how they are going to act, but I just don't know that they have the tools to act much differently than they do.

Now does having a disorder mean I'm not responsible for the consequences of choices? No. It's my life, and no matter what happens, it's on me. I may not be consciously doing something to mess up, but it doesn't matter. Society isn't going to change how it works for me; nor should it. Fortunately, I have found a medication that works quite well, and learned coping skills to help me function. But without those tools, I'd be lost. The sad thing is it wouldn't matter. I'm responsible for behaving in a certain manner, even if I'm just not equipped to do so. It may not be fair, but that's life. But it's not just as simple as choosing to behave better or focus more.

And I'm not really sure that "I have BPD! You just have to deal with it," isn't sort of true. When a person has BPD, that's part of who they are. That's not changing. They don't get to have control over it. The people want to be close to me have to accept my issues. I'm fortunate that I have a lot of understanding people in my life. Now I know there's a huge difference between ADD and BPD, but I think the same concept applies. If you want to be in a relationship with someone that has BPD, yeah, you have to deal with it. You've got to be willing to put up with the behavior that comes with their condition (not that I'm encouraging anyone to do so). That's the price you have to pay to be in that relationship. Now, personally, putting up with that wasn't worth it to me. That's why my ex and I aren't together. What we don't have to do is deal with being in a relationship with someone that acts that way.

[.cup.car]

As if to say 'it's not my fault! I have BPD! You have to just deal with it'.

This.

I really wasn't a fan of this article.

[Trog]

We all make choices. Having a mental health condition does not make one a complete slave to it; it does not make us into some zombie.

PwBPD, just like those without, make certain choices. And it seems, especially when taking into account this particular piece, the majority of those with BPD seem to make the choice to hurt people and be destructive towards them. Even this article is written in a sense that devoids the author of responsibility. As if to say 'it's not my fault! I have BPD! You have to just deal with it'.

I'm not always sure that it's a black and white, "they get to choose", sort of thing. I suffer from ADD. If I'm not on my medication, I lack the ability to focus on things that do not hold my attention. I know it may be important. I know that bad things may happen if I don't focus. I can consciously tell myself, that above everything else in the world, I need to focus on this one thing. And it doesn't really matter. I literally lack the capacity to focus on something uninteresting for any extended amount of time. To a certain extent, I really am a slave to it. I don't have a choice in having it, or how it's going to affect my life. I don't know that BPD is that different. A person with BPD has to choose how they are going to act, but I just don't know that they have the tools to act much differently than they do.

Now does having a disorder mean I'm not responsible for the consequences of choices? No. It's my life, and no matter what happens, it's on me. I may not be consciously doing something to mess up, but it doesn't matter. Society isn't going to change how it works for me; nor should it. Fortunately, I have found a medication that works quite well, and learned coping skills to help me function. But without those tools, I'd be lost. The sad thing is it wouldn't matter. I'm responsible for behaving in a certain manner, even if I'm just not equipped to do so. It may not be fair, but that's life. But it's not just as simple as choosing to behave better or focus more.

And I'm not really sure that "I have BPD! You just have to deal with it," isn't sort of true. When a person has BPD, that's part of who they are. That's not changing. They don't get to have control over it. The people want to be close to me have to accept my issues. I'm fortunate that I have a lot of understanding people in my life. Now I know there's a huge difference between ADD and BPD, but I think the same concept applies. If you want to be in a relationship with someone that has BPD, yeah, you have to deal with it. You've got to be willing to put up with the behavior that comes with their condition (not that I'm encouraging anyone to do so). That's the price you have to pay to be in that relationship. Now, personally, putting up with that wasn't worth it to me. That's why my ex and I aren't together. What we don't have to do is deal with being in a relationship with someone that acts that way.

Taking your example, you are on a medication that's right for you or else your life doesn't pan out too well. Many of our exBPDs refuse help and just flail around in the world hurting others without any insight. I don't think these two compare really.

[Springle]

I'm not always sure that it's a black and white, "they get to choose", sort of thing. I suffer from ADD. If I'm not on my medication, I lack the ability to focus on things that do not hold my attention. I know it may be important. I know that bad things may happen if I don't focus. I can consciously tell myself, that above everything else in the world, I need to focus on this one thing. And it doesn't really matter. I literally lack the capacity to focus on something uninteresting for any extended amount of time. To a certain extent, I really am a slave to it. I don't have a choice in having it, or how it's going to affect my life. I don't know that BPD is that different. A person with BPD has to choose how they are going to act, but I just don't know that they have the tools to act much differently than they do.

Hi Rise

I would not consider your ADHD on the same level as BPD. ADHD is a neurological issue always present from childhood, BPD is psychological - a learnt behaviour, they are cut from very different cloths.

I'll admit I do not know much about ADHD but I would consider you cannot recover from it, you have personally made choices and taken steps to control your condition. I would think not just for others or 'society' but for yourself also. I would say these are great choices and ones I would hope make your life happier? You have taken the responsibility as a mature, full and good person to learn, grow and overcome this situation to the best of your abilities. Moments of distraction should not be blamed on you, you are clearly doing all you can. That is your choice.

BPD on the other hand is a learned behaviour. And any behaviour can be unlearned (think about kicking habits; smoking, drinking etc) with work and making the choice to get better. I would say BPD is very treatable, the problem is the pwBPD very rarely acknowledges fully they have a problem or apply themselves enough to see therapy through. That is their choice, honestly there really is nothing stopping them, if persons with alcohol/drug/other addictions/depression/anxiety (unless chemical and from what I understand BPD is not) can make full recoveries by wanting and working hard enough than what reason is there for a pwBPD not to? Simple, they either don't want it enough or do not want to work hard enough for it; in it's most brutal honesty, they find it easier to scape goat it on others or they actually kind of like using it as an excuse for destructive behaviour (I feel my pwBPD was the later!). People have recovered from BPD and those are people who sat up and took the responsibility for what was happening and made the true efforts to resolve it, they made a choice.

It's not about the little details it's about the bigger picture. If I have to compare your ADHD with BPD than I would say if you got distracted about a task that needed completing I doubt people in your life would leave you because of that one instance when in the grander scheme you are putting true effort in to manage your life and live it to it's fullest despite your ADHD, and so you should, you deserve it. Similarly if a pwBPD I knew flew into a rage with me over nothing I would feel much less upset and hurt by it if they were in therapy and applied themselves and took it seriously, it would be an uphill stumbling block, not another slip deeper into a dark hole. It's not the small choices I am talking about, it's the big ones that show who a person is.

I should also note I would argue BPD effects more people around you. I have a cousin with ADHD and, ok it can be frustrating at times, it mostly only personally effects him. But BPD can touch so many people negatively and really screw people up, especially those who are unfamiliar of how it works, in some ways it's a bit like going out in a crowded area with a highly contagious disease. If it were a physical ailment that would hardly be accepted, you'd tell that person to get back to the hospital and stop putting others in danger. Obviously not saying we should be getting all up in pwBPD's faces but I would say this forum is a good indicator of how one person's choice exceeds the past just self destruction.

I hope I am making sense haha, it's late here.

But I have always believed that no matter you circumstance there is really no justifiable reason to be personally unpleasant to someone, we all have our moments we're human but if it is repeated and there is no sign of willingness to improve and grow then to be frank it doesn't matter what they have (physical, mental, neurological) they are likely just a nasty individual and ya know what they have brought it on themselves. I would say psychological issues in particular, don't get me wrong there is a stigma, but generally they are learned behaviours and can be treated and a person's choice to treat another so badly because they have this or that... .I mean what are you playing at?

I have severe depression can I add, and anxiety, waaaaay before I met my pwBPD but I would never chose to willing hurt someone and refuse responsibility for it, that's awful! I've now made the choice to go on anti-d, go to therapy, really work and strive to better my life and myself as a person and I understand it is hard, oh God believe me I get it, but I don't want to feel like this forever, I don't like this feeling, and I don't want it hurting the people I love.

EDIT -

Taking your example, you are on a medication that's right for you or else your life doesn't pan out too well. Many of our exBPDs refuse help and just flail around in the world hurting others without any insight. I don't think these two compare really.

Trog, I love how you said exactly what I wanted to say but in two sentences haha. Bravo!

[EaglesJuju]

I agree with Rise, pwBPD do not get to choose.  The onset of BPD is a combination of both biological and environmental factors (learnt behavior).  Biological vulnerabilities, such as genetics, brain systems abnormalities, and dysfunction in the limbic system, play a huge part with developing BPD.  Environmental factors include an invalidating childhood environment, abuse/trauma, ineffective parenting etc. Many of these risk factors are prominent during childhood. That makes me ask the question, does a child choose to be this way?

[Springle]

I agree with Rise, pwBPD do not get to choose.  The onset of BPD is a combination of both biological and environmental factors (learnt behavior).  Biological vulnerabilities, such as genetics, brain systems abnormalities, and dysfunction in the limbic system, play a huge part with developing BPD.  Environmental factors include an invalidating childhood environment, abuse/trauma, ineffective parenting etc. Many of these risk factors are prominent during childhood. That makes me ask the question, does a child choose to be this way?

I think there is still some misunderstanding with the points I am trying to make at least.

I never said it was their fault they had it or they choose the have to. No one would willingly choose to have BPD I'm sure.

The choice comes with how they respond to it and address it. Same with many other mental conditions.

[AwakenedOne]

The choice comes with how they respond to it and address it.

After reading the stories of hundreds of members here I would sum up that the majority (Not All) of pwBPD in those stories have responded as follows:

Giving us various STD's, cheating on us, stealing from us, taking our child or children and just running off and disappearing, physical abuse, mental abuse, false charges to the police, false charges to CPS, no remorse, etc... .etc... .

Ways that they have addressed it:

Blaming others.

[SlyQQ]

What do people think of those who know or suspect strongly they have BPD an choose to hide it. Is this because they are BPD or because they choose to mislead and in some cases even "tease" ( alluding to the fact knowing there is little chance there new partner will know whAt they are saying) people with the fact

[Mike-X]

I appreciate the post, and I agree with some of the comments above that it seems to illustrate BPD at so many levels.

Here is another that I came across recently, where I appreciated the author's expressed insights:

https://showard76.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/what-happens-when-a-person-with-BPD-ends-a-relationship/

[drummerboy]

I think that if a person strongly suspected they had BPD they would be in therapy of some sort. As long as their coping mechanisms (continually mirroring, maintaining their act, being the poor victim and having people that take pity on them) are working and they have their enablers on tap and can always find new victims they can stay living in denial.

What do people think of those who know or suspect strongly they have BPD

an choose to hide it. Is this because they are BPD or because they

choose to mislead and in some cases even "tease" ( alluding to the fact

knowing there is little chance there new partner will know whAt they are saying)

people with the fact

[Mike-X]

What do people think of those who know or suspect strongly they have BPD

an choose to hide it. Is this because they are BPD or because they

choose to mislead and in some cases even "tease" ( alluding to the fact

knowing there is little chance there new partner will know whAt they are saying)

people with the fact

Do you think that choosing to mislead or tease can be a part of the disorder?

[Dutched]

Here is another that I came across recently, where I appreciated the author's expressed insights:

https://showard76.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/what-happens-when-a-person-with-BPD-ends-a-relationship/

Up to a certain point the author seems to have self awareness, until the author shows her real face, the typical behaviour. Being aware of doing wrong, hurting SO deeply, but not controlling her behaviour?

From the author:

In the meantime my ability to manipulate and cheat, and painting my partner as the ‘bad’ one due to ‘splitting’ are just slowly killing him.

Part of me loves him deeply and wants us to be okay, but part of me doesn’t want him, finds him controlling and while those two parts are at war I am doing the ‘wrong’ things and getting more and more ill myself as the burdens of guilt, fear, anger, and hurt build to volcanic proportions.

I don’t want him to end up hating me any more than he should already, so breaking his heart now (and yes I am running away too) is better than the car crash that is inevitable if I stay

I read: ‘I ran away because as he confronted me with cheating, hurting, manipulating, I was the one who got hurt and feared abandonment, lost trust. In order to control my feelings I had to split him black, flee and shut him of’.

In the end… running away… so easy, avoiding responsibility for the behaviour, despite the author’s ‘self awareness’. Deflecting in optima forma... .

[Dutched]

This author shows IMO a better view.  How a BPD relationship evolves…

My expectations are frequently, without a doubt, crazy. They are wrong. They are unrealistic. Specifically, the expectations that I have of other people and, more specifically, just those closest to me.

But if you have BPD, you know how bloody hard it is to even temporarily ignore them, let alone get rid of them. They are always there, just waiting for someone to get close, and the second they do – WHAM, you are transformed into a raving lunatic because so-and-so clearly doesn’t care because they didn’t do this, and they didn’t say that, and they obviously should have done this and because they didn’t you should show them how heartless they are, etc. An identity that I have always referred to as ‘Crazy B___.’

Crazy B___ doesn’t come out as long as no one is close to her (which is why, coincidentally, at the times that my life was going the smoothest, I essentially had zero close friends). As long as no one is there to unleash her on, she grumbles away, imprisoned and powerless, but growing increasingly resentful until she gets a chance to really shine. As soon as someone seems like they really do care, she is lightening quick, assuming, demanding, jumping miles ahead, ripping down all boundaries (healthy and otherwise), and all the while building fragile fantasies and sky-high expectations of a long and fulfilling future with this person – who, by the way, will obviously telepathically intuit her every need forever. So as long as it all works like that, she’ll finally get what she wants – hooray!

Except it doesn’t. Ever. And then Crazy B___ is really in her element. She takes over everything else about my personality and makes it about her needs, her wants, her oh-so-delicate feelings. Screaming and raving at the person who has done absolutely nothing wrong, she will usually jump straight to hurting them – verbally, emotionally, physically, whatever to show them just how horrible they are and how much they are the problem and she is just an innocent, downtrodden victim. It all goes downhill pretty fast from there. And then Crazy B___ has a new entry in her massive catalogue of “Reasons to Hate”.

Everyone I know or read about who has BPD can relate to what I’m saying. Every single one of us is Crazy B___ when they’re in full-blown borderline mode.

And, as Karen pointed out, that “enough” would keep even the best relationships in my life from ever being anything positive because they were only, for example, 99% supportive or understanding (at best!), and not 100% perfect all the time, so Crazy B___ demanded that I end them, with full hate and stored in Crazy B___es catalogue of “Reasons to Hate”.

Just writing about Crazy B___ makes me realize why some people have such a deep-seated hatred towards borderlines after being hurt by them.

https://halfofasoul.wordpress.com/2013/11/08/if-youre-going-to-read-one-post-i-write-please-let-it-be-this-one/