Odd Projection last night

[ColdEthyl]

In the 5 years I've been with my dBPDh, he's repeatedly told me about how his ex would get angry at him for stuff that happens in a dream. He's on occasion accused me of the same thing, though I've never done it.

What was odd was last night. He was telling me about a dream he had that disturbed him, he was running around the house trying to find me but couldn't. Our house was full off his family members, though none of his "core" family members that he's closest to. He said every room he went into, they would point to another room I was in until finally he found me and exclaimed "WHERE THE F*** HAVE YOU BEEN?" Everyone was staring at him in his dream because cursing just isn't a thing his family does.

He kept saying he was angry at me for a second until he realized it was dream. Then, he said I've done it. I told him I have not, though I remember he said that before. I reminded him it was his ex that did that. He then said "Well, you have cried and stuff and even said you knew it wasn't real" . I explained yes... .I did cry. I still felt emotions from the dream, but in no way did I blame him for any sort of dream I had.

He repeated several times that he was angry at me for a second, but he doesn't hold dream against me like I do him, and they don't mean anything anyways. The next sentence out was ":)o you think this dream is about the phone calls? It's probably the phone thing. Right? Right?" (The passed few days we have been phone shopping so he can call his parents. He said he was ready. He has been avoiding his parents for 3 months... .for no clear reason) Then he repeated a few times that he was very very angry with me most of the day. (after saying 1 second)

When I said possibly... .it could be stress about that causing some dreams. He said he wanted me to help him more. I needed to help him more. I said baby... .what can I do to help you?

He said he doesn't know.

So basically for years I've heard how dreams do not mean anything and it's stupid to be angry at someone over dreams, and then eventually we got down to the part where HE was the one getting upset about dreams. He asked for my help with his parents... .all I could tell him is they are not going to be angry. They understand, and they don't judge him. I do, in fact, speak to his mom to let her know what's going on when he does this so she doesn't worry, but I do not tell him that.

What scares me is... .what else is he projecting? Have the accusations of what I COULD do at work (he thinks because I have an office I must be dragging men in there for sex, and when he's accusing me, he doesn't say I'm doing anything he says he thinks I'm not, but he wants me to admit that I *could*) I always thought that he was most likely just hating himself. He doesn't leave the house, or have social media or anything but this whole thing is making me paranoid now >.< I have 0 reason to suspect a thing other than his getting dyregulated and accusing me a few times the past few months.

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[Cole]

I think you may be onto something with the dreams and deregulation being a result of the stress with his parents. My mother-in-law is uBPD. She and my wife take turns shutting each other out for no apparent reason. After weeks or sometimes months, wife will really start to miss her mother and decides to call her, but not before stressing herself out about it for several days first.

Keeping in touch with his mother to let her know he is OK is awesome, though he would probably go nuts if he ever found out. You are sweet to do that for him, though he will never know about it.     

[ColdEthyl]

I think you may be onto something with the dreams and deregulation being a result of the stress with his parents. My mother-in-law is uBPD. She and my wife take turns shutting each other out for no apparent reason. After weeks or sometimes months, wife will really start to miss her mother and decides to call her, but not before stressing herself out about it for several days first.

Keeping in touch with his mother to let her know he is OK is awesome, though he would probably go nuts if he ever found out. You are sweet to do that for him, though he will never know about it.      

I do it for him and for his family. They have a hard time understanding what BPD is and why this is happening. (they says things like "Maybe it's something else" ":)id I cause this" "He just needs more vitamin D"

I don't lie to him. If I spoke to his mother that day, I will tell him I spoke to his mother, and I will say we talked about this and that... .the tidbits of the conversation that have to do with him I just do not mention.

I'm having a moment of paranoia, I think. The more I think about it, I've been reading on here a lot of stories and problems people have had with their BPD partners cheating, and I think I might be working myself up.

[Grey Kitty]

Projection is a way of dealing with a feeling, or some aspect of himself that he cannot accept and cope with.

I remember when I first started coming out of the FOG, and learned about projection I noticed that my wife was doing most of the things she was projecting onto me. So it is possible, and it does merit thinking about.

However as you saw... .the basis of this projection was his dream. No action he took.

If your H hasn't ever cheated before... .if he isn't a flirt... .if he isn't secretive about who he's communicating with... .and especially since he doesn't seem to communicate with much of anybody at all... .you may well be working yourself up over nothing.

[ColdEthyl]

Projection is a way of dealing with a feeling, or some aspect of himself that he cannot accept and cope with.

I remember when I first started coming out of the FOG, and learned about projection I noticed that my wife was doing most of the things she was projecting onto me. So it is possible, and it does merit thinking about.

However as you saw... .the basis of this projection was his dream. No action he took.

If your H hasn't ever cheated before... .if he isn't a flirt... .if he isn't secretive about who he's communicating with... .and especially since he doesn't seem to communicate with much of anybody at all... .you may well be working yourself up over nothing.

We went to a hotel this weekend. If you follow my posts, you will recall we are having ED/intimacy issues. He thought this might help... .our room is next to my D14's, and the thought of sex where the kids can hear has always bothered him, so he thought maybe the change of scene would help. For the past 4 days, we have been flirting, talking about the weekend, really working ourselves up.

Without being too graphic, parts that were having issues didn't appear to be. We had a great day. Went to the lake, went to dinner, shot some pool, and went back to the hotel. Things continued to go well there. Parts were working... .then right when it came to that part of our "dance"... .nothing.

He started to dysregulate... .said he couldn't do it. I should find someone on the side as long as I don't leave him and I don't tell him he doesn't care. I told him like always that I have no desire to do that. I take my vows seriously, and I love my husband.

I used some of the language formflier has suggested. I asked him to help me understand why he doesn't want to go to the doctor. This time, he said what if he gets the pills and it doesn't work? Then I'm going to leave for sure.

So, he's afraid it won't work at all.

I tried to explain why that was flawed logic... .if I was going to leave because of an ED issue, I would leave now regardless if he tried medication or not but I wasn't getting through.

We have had this conversation about 30 times over the past 2 years. Every time... .I get a teeny bit more out of him about the root issue. At this point, I believe his questioning me about my faithfulness comes from his insecurities about our sex life, as well as his past. We had also talked 2 night before, and he said mostly it comes from his previous relationship, where his gf did cheat, and he did find evidence of it. He talked a lot about that, and how he knows I'm not the same, but it's difficult for him to believe I'm "so good", as he puts it.

He's also been painting me white pretty hard. He thinks he's holding me back. He says I'm so amazing, and he doesn't deserve me, and I deserve better. (pretty typical BPD)

[Cole]

He's also been painting me white pretty hard. He thinks he's holding me back. He says I'm so amazing, and he doesn't deserve me, and I deserve better. (pretty typical BPD)

Sounds much like what we are dealing with at the moment. She will not have sex because she is ashamed of her past, ashamed she cheated on me 7 years ago, does not deserve me, etc... .all the typical PBD stuff.

It is good that you have been able to pull a little more out of him. Seems like a step- though small- in the right direction.

[Grey Kitty]

ColdEthyl, your assessment on the source of the projection rings true to me.

I'm not sure whether to say I'm happy for the progress, or sad about the failure/dysregulation at the end. 

I've missed your prior topics on ED/intimacy... .Are you asking for thoughts on how to deal with that now?

[ColdEthyl]

ColdEthyl, your assessment on the source of the projection rings true to me.

I'm not sure whether to say I'm happy for the progress, or sad about the failure/dysregulation at the end. 

I've missed your prior topics on ED/intimacy... .Are you asking for thoughts on how to deal with that now?

Honestly, it's the biggest issue we even have atm. His issues are not unheard for a man approaching 50, but the idea of going to the doctor is just out the door.

I'm happy about getting more out of him, and being able to discuss it. The discussions are in short bursts because it's such a touchy subject for him. If I could see a light at the end of the tunnel... .even another year or two, I'd be fine. It's wondering if this is all I have for a sex life now that frightens me

I was participating in this thread about the issue:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=238817.10

"My dBPDh is suffering from ED, and whether it's mental or not I am not sure. However, that doesn't mean I don't like trying... .but he doesn't like "failing"

He says to me he wants me to be more aggressive and demand it of him, but there's been a lot of times I have initiated only to be rejected. The rejection really cuts into me, since I already feel insecure about 'being aggressive'

Talking about this situation never really goes well. Last night we talked about it some, and he usually says the same things over and over again. "A woman's body is always ready for sex. You can't understand what it's like for me" and... .

(If this is TMI I apologize, but it's what I don't know how to answer) "No matter what my tongue still works, and you can have it any time you want."

Yes that's true... .for the most part. There's still been a few times he declined but I'm not worried about that. I cannot figure how to say ummm... .yeah that's great and all (and it is) and I'm appreciative of that but... .I still miss the 'full menu'

When I bring up going to a doc to get checked out and possibly some pills, the conversation goes bad. "Oh, you would be ok with a medicated *bleep*" Yes... .I would.

I tell him every time if he had to take a pill that's fine. He doesn't choose for this to happen to him, so why would I think badly of him or be angry?

I'm not getting anywhere with this problem."

[ColdEthyl]

He's also been painting me white pretty hard. He thinks he's holding me back. He says I'm so amazing, and he doesn't deserve me, and I deserve better. (pretty typical BPD)

Sounds much like what we are dealing with at the moment. She will not have sex because she is ashamed of her past, ashamed she cheated on me 7 years ago, does not deserve me, etc... .all the typical PBD stuff.

It is good that you have been able to pull a little more out of him. Seems like a step- though small- in the right direction.

I will take any forward progress at this moment. His fears about his exGF and why he keeps thinking I'm the same way rings true to me. It also makes sense that he's painting me white and feeling inferior.

Sunday morning after the hotel debacle... .I had to come into work for a few hours. I told him I love him and I would see him soon, I would text when I'm my way home to see if he wanted to grab some lunch. He says to me "You could just keep on driving, you know."

>.< I'm not going anywhere. I know it's the BPD stuff... .he feels like failure, he sees a 20 foot deep hole, when in reality it's only 2 inches. Knowing this does not always help me not be frustrated.

[formflier]

"A woman's body is always ready for sex. You can't understand what it's like for me" 

First... .have you tried to explain to him that this just isn't true... .I'm guessing lots of women will read this and disagree with the assessment the they "are always ready... ."


Also... .I think you are on track about the projecting... .we'll never know for sure... .so be careful making big decisions based solely on what you think about the projecting...

Don't worry about TMI... .I think the discussions about this on various threads have been appropriate and respectful.

It seems that you have two strategies going... .

Strategy 1: Get away from distractions and just "keep trying" to have intimacy with him.  Please don't give up on this... .I think on some level he understands that you are putting in the effort. 

Strategy 2:  Get him to a doctor.


Are there other strategies... .do I have this correct?


OK... .strategy 1.  Hmmm... .how do I ask and be respectful. 

So... it seems like you were saying that you had his "attention" up until it came time for the actual act of intimacy... .at which point he "deflated" your hopes that it was going to work.  Correct? 

Sorry... .trying to figure out a what to ask this... .without... .well... .you know.

Sigh.

How long has it been since you guys have been succesful?


Strategy 2: 

When is the last time he has been to the doctor for anything?

What do you think would happen if you made and appointment for both of you to see the doctor... .and told him you were going... .regardless of his presence or not at the doctors office?

[ColdEthyl]

His point on the woman's body is that ermm... .our equipment doesn't need 'preptime', even if a female didn't want sex or wasn't feeling like it... .they could still "perform" where as for him... .the solider has to be ready to stand attention.

I am always watchful when it comes to him just because of how BPD is. So, at the moment I have 0 to go on other than my personal paranoia.

For 4 days we were flirting/touching and yes... .everything was 'at attention', up to the point where it would... .need to be at attention and then... .then yes the situation deflated and immediately he went into dysregulation.

We were successful about 3 months ago. Before that... .it was almost year. Some attempts... .but the act couldn't be completed. The more he tried and "failed" as he sees it, the more he pulled away from trying at all.

The last time I've gotten him to a doctor for any reason was when he was working and fell out of a tree. He separated his shoulder, and even then it took me almost 24 hours to get him to go.

The situation with making a doctor's appointment is a bit more complicated. My husband is Native American so he goes to Indian Health clinics. I think I could make an appointment, and it would be some time from the time I made it, I guarantee he won't go.

I've told him I'd go with him. I've told him I'm worried more about health complications like prostate cancer and such. It doesn't matter. He goes further and further into the cave.

Btw, you did a great job asking questions!



Part of his issues I KNOW are mental. He set himself up for failure the other night. I kind of saw it coming because we were doing some things... and some other things... .and he kept... .stalling when it came to the uhh... .main event. So he probably started freaking himself out by then. Part of it though is obviously physical as well.

[formflier]

His point on the woman's body is that ermm... .our equipment doesn't need 'preptime', even if a female didn't want sex or wasn't feeling like it... .they could still "perform" where as for him... .the solider has to be ready to stand attention.

... .yeah... I understand... .but I think most women would be grumpy about... .just jumping into having sex with no foreplay... .relaxing... .  ok... .moving right along... .   

For 4 days we were flirting/touching and yes... .everything was 'at attention', up to the point where it would... .need to be at attention and then... .then yes the situation deflated and immediately he went into dysregulation.

OK... .this is good... .for me... .it means the physical part is working... or mostly working.

We were successful about 3 months ago.

So... by successful... .you mean that he came to the agreement that he was done having intimacy that night... .     

Really could't figure out any other way to ask... .

Before that... .it was almost year. Some attempts... .but the act couldn't be completed.

So... .3 months ago... .I'm hoping you are saying 3 months ago was total success.  Then... .prior to 3 months ago it was almost a year... .but he didn't come to the same conclusions... .but the act was done?   

In that period of a year there were attempts... .that didn't work out.?

The more he tried and "failed" as he sees it, the more he pulled away from trying at all.

Yep... .I can totally see guys doing this. 

The last time I've gotten him to a doctor for any reason was when he was working and fell out of a tree.

How long ago was this?

  I think I could make an appointment, and it would be some time from the time I made it, I guarantee he won't go.

I've told him I'd go with him. 

What happens if he goes to a regular doctor?   A urologist?  Can he get reimbursed.

I'm not Native... .so... .what I'm going to say here could be completely off base.

I've heard some of the clinics are nice... .some bad.  So... I guess I won't fault him there.  Do you think the clinics are bad?

Might want to call and find out if he can submit a claim after going to regular doctor.

Or... just find out how much a complete physical will cost "out in town" at regular doctor.

Basically... somehow... you have to get him in there. 

Maybe others can tell us what will happen is a guy that has "mental ED"... .takes one of those drugs.

Does it help... ?  I don't know.

[ColdEthyl]

I get what you are saying about his argument, but since he's a pwBPD, I can't get that through his head

He fell out of that tree almost 3 years ago now. Sorry about that!

You are exactly right. 3 months ago, the full menu was served. For a year prior to that, I'd say about 5-6 attempts. The time between attempts increased with each "failure to launch"

Through Indian Health Services (IHS), the one he goes to he likes a lot. Some are good some are bad. He would still have to go to IHS to get a referral anywhere else to be covered.

He hates going to the doctor period. Doctors, dentist, vision... .anything at all with caring for himself he gets huge anxiety over.

This might be just a chip at him one day at a time thing. He's talking and sharing more about his fears. Maybe over time, that boulder i've been leaning on has actually been moving so slow I couldn't see the improvement and one day I'll wake up and it's there!

[formflier]

 

Two ideas... .two tracks.

Getting him to doctor... .somehow... .it's got to happen.  I'm thinking that you make the appointment for both of you... .and tell him you are going to discuss the intimacy issue... .you hope he comes  ... .(ahem... .umm... .yeah... .)  and you make sure you go to the appointment.

When would be the best time to let him know about this?


Second track:  Intimacy and flirting... .and you done things for him... .where he just sits back and relaxes and enjoys is.  Maybe you even keep your clothes on... .

Does stuff like that work for him... .for you guys?


Here is the thing... .somehow he needs help remembering that intimacy is fun... it feels good... .I'm hoping you can figure out a way to do that for him... .that is not so intimidating.

Any ideas?

[ColdEthyl]

Two ideas... .two tracks.

Getting him to doctor... .somehow... .it's got to happen.  I'm thinking that you make the appointment for both of you... .and tell him you are going to discuss the intimacy issue... .you hope he comes  ... .(ahem... .umm... .yeah... .)  and you make sure you go to the appointment.

When would be the best time to let him know about this?


Second track:  Intimacy and flirting... .and you done things for him... .where he just sits back and relaxes and enjoys is.  Maybe you even keep your clothes on... .

Does stuff like that work for him... .for you guys?


Here is the thing... .somehow he needs help remembering that intimacy is fun... it feels good... .I'm hoping you can figure out a way to do that for him... .that is not so intimidating.

Any ideas?

Well... .I've offered to give him pleasure (BJs, there I said it ) without expectations quite often. He's 'taken rain checks" on these activities that he doesn't "cash in"

There's been times where I will go to kiss his neck or something like that... .pull him closer and he pulls away. I'll get told by him when the intimacy conversations come up that I need to more be aggressive, yet every time I attempt to (I have NOT been successful yet) he will decline. I'm left feeling stupid for even trying (it's uncomfortable for me to begin with the be 'aggressive' and more so knowing I'm going to get smacked down again) embarrassed, unattractive, you name it. It makes ME not want to try anymore.

I thought this hotel thing might work. That's something we could do once a month or so and it would have been fine for me. We came home that night at 4am. Didn't even stay at the hotel.

He does tell me that he cannot "fire the rocket" solo anymore, either. For the past 2 years. SO I think it's physical too. I really need to get him to the doc.

This is one of those situations where I do not want to say ":)o this or I am going to leave" because I just... .I just cannot bring myself to do that to someone having a physical issue. He hasn't chosen it, and he doesn't like it. But DOING something about it... .I might as well be asking for Mars.

[formflier]

He does tell me that he cannot "fire the rocket" solo anymore, either. For the past 2 years. SO I think it's physical too. I really need to get him to the doc.

Wow... .ok... .I'm switching my thinking.  Bear in mind that I'm no expert on this stuff.  But I was thinking equal parts mental and physical... .

But... .if it is true that in two years he hasn't been able to self pleasure... .there has got to be a physical issue here.

I'm thinking a physical issue... .which is driving unhealthy mental responses to it. 

I was kinda thinking before that he had some kind of mental block... that was giving a physical manifestation.

My guesswork ... .and yours... .really indicates that this is not a subject for amateurs to tackle.

I think a good GP needs to be seen first... .and I would think there would be referrals to specialists.

[ColdEthyl]

I wish I could just bring a doctor home and be like surprise physical!

[formflier]

I wish I could just bring a doctor home and be like surprise physical!

Do you think he would go to a surprise physical... ?

As in... you schedule it... .and tell him when you are on the way to it?  If it works... it works.  But if it doesn't... could be some serious trust issues there... .

[ColdEthyl]

I wish I could just bring a doctor home and be like surprise physical!

Do you think he would go to a surprise physical... ?

As in... you schedule it... .and tell him when you are on the way to it?  If it works... it works.  But if it doesn't... could be some serious trust issues there... .

I have thought about it honestly, but anything sprung on him will not go well. He doesn't handle 'surprises' very well.

He has social anxiety issues, and there have been times we made plans to go to a concert or something like that and he just couldn't do it. I think if I did that to him, he would be very angry, anxious, and wouldn't go inside.

[Grey Kitty]

Side note: The idea that a woman is always ready for sex sounds horribly offensive and inaccurate to me. My understanding is that it generally takes more time for women than men to get aroused enough to enjoy sex. That is probably semantics though--It is also very true that a woman's plumbing doesn't 'fail to perform' at all like ED.

I've got a strategy for you and your H, regarding ED and this one came directly from Dan Savage (sex and rs advice columnist / podcast; Explicit and open to kinks and r/s permutations most people haven't even heard of. I like him a lot.) For right now, I'm going to skip the BPD issues with it, and pretend that your husband would just understand and agree to it. If you like the idea, you know the tools; start running with it and working on how to get him onboard.

Take intercourse OFF THE MENU of sex between you and your H for a while. (Consider setting an arbitrary date.)

Work on making sex pleasurable for both of you, without the stress of wondering if he will get an erection or if he will be able to maintain one long enough.

Spend some time getting comfortable with that. (It sounds like there are plenty of other issues that are uncomfortable/awkward/etc. around sex)

This alone may heal/normalize things enough that the ED could go away.

If you and he can find a lot of fun with sex that doesn't involve that one act, it will take a lot of pressure off... .should this problem not go away, or should it return later.

[ColdEthyl]

Side note: The idea that a woman is always ready for sex sounds horribly offensive and inaccurate to me. My understanding is that it generally takes more time for women than men to get aroused enough to enjoy sex. That is probably semantics though--It is also very true that a woman's plumbing doesn't 'fail to perform' at all like ED.

I've got a strategy for you and your H, regarding ED and this one came directly from Dan Savage (sex and rs advice columnist / podcast; Explicit and open to kinks and r/s permutations most people haven't even heard of. I like him a lot.) For right now, I'm going to skip the BPD issues with it, and pretend that your husband would just understand and agree to it. If you like the idea, you know the tools; start running with it and working on how to get him onboard.

Take intercourse OFF THE MENU of sex between you and your H for a while. (Consider setting an arbitrary date.)

Work on making sex pleasurable for both of you, without the stress of wondering if he will get an erection or if he will be able to maintain one long enough.

Spend some time getting comfortable with that. (It sounds like there are plenty of other issues that are uncomfortable/awkward/etc. around sex)

This alone may heal/normalize things enough that the ED could go away.

If you and he can find a lot of fun with sex that doesn't involve that one act, it will take a lot of pressure off... .should this problem not go away, or should it return later.

@Grey Kitty I know it's offensive, but you know how they think. This is the flag he chooses to wave.

We already have sex without erections. That isn't the problem. It's not awkward during those times. It's when he wants to try, freaks out and it doesn't happen. Then he dysregulates, tries to blame me (saying I need to be more aggressive), claims he doesn't even want sex, and then will dive into the circle thinking/talking around the subject, IE I should leave, he can't please me like a man should, this is what I get for marrying an old man, I still have his tongue, etc etc.

The fear of the pill not working was new information.

I don't ever pressure him or ask him to try. Ever. I already know he puts a lot of pressure on himself, and that's a lot of it. When the dialogue is opened is when I speak about my side of it. I tell him I didn't marry his penis. I love him, and I'm not leaving/cheating because of physical issue he cannot control.

What depresses me is he won't go to the doctor. I'm afraid of prostate cancer, or something like that. If he would go to the doctor, and it's nothing like that, the pills would make him "feel like a man" again. 

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, the dysregulation and CRAP he pulls is far worse than the original problem. Sigh.

The more I think about it... .the point of this strategy/exercise is so he can get past his own anxiety/fears/whatever mental/emotional baggage by a side-trip.

And with an untreated pwBPD, that sort of crap is ALWAYS there, and good times are when he doesn't dysregulate and throw it all in your face.

I guess it is back to working to get him in to see a doctor. This is something that requires his willing compliance, have you read up on the D.E.A.R.M.A.N. communication technique in the lessons? I've not got practice with it, but you could try to work out how to use it here... .

[ColdEthyl]

Yeah, the dysregulation and CRAP he pulls is far worse than the original problem. Sigh.

The more I think about it... .the point of this strategy/exercise is so he can get past his own anxiety/fears/whatever mental/emotional baggage by a side-trip.

And with an untreated pwBPD, that sort of crap is ALWAYS there, and good times are when he doesn't dysregulate and throw it all in your face.

I guess it is back to working to get him in to see a doctor. This is something that requires his willing compliance, have you read up on the D.E.A.R.M.A.N. communication technique in the lessons? I've not got practice with it, but you could try to work out how to use it here... .

I have not put it into practice. I will give that a shot. I think eventually I will get him to go, it's just a pain in the ___ and takes forever

[formflier]

 dearman is tough... I've tried once or twice... .and let it drop.  SET seems to be something I can hang with.

Please keep us updated if you are trying dearman... .that would be good to have someone with some real practice with that

[ColdEthyl]

dearman is tough... I've tried once or twice... .and let it drop.  SET seems to be something I can hang with.

Please keep us updated if you are trying dearman... .that would be good to have someone with some real practice with that

Yes I will for sure. I've had luck with SET, but DEAR MAN... .not sure if he will be open to it. I'm going to wait a bit and let his anxiety go down about it first.

[Grey Kitty]

Give it a shot... .here and see what the rest of your online support team thinks about it... .while you wait for him to be a bit more receptive.

[ColdEthyl]

I've been thinking a lot about what I will say when I decide to say it. If he opens the dialogue on his own, I will give it a try, Otherwise, I'm waiting a good month on it for him to settle down. For the moment, I'm hugging him, kissing him, cuddling, telling him I love him, he's sexy, he's hot, etc etc... .and not touching the subject of sex at all.

This is sort of how I'm preparing it in my head.

D: I am concerned about your health. I would like to see you get seen by a doctor to make sure nothing serious is going on.

E: I love you, and I want you to be healthy. I don't care about sex, I care about you. This is hard for me to talk about because I'm worried about making you feel worse than you already do. I know this is difficult for you, and I am sorry we are going through this.

(I try to throw a bit of empathy in there, so he understands that I am aware this is terrible for him. I also try to use "we" instead of "you" or "I" when I can so he understand we are a team)

A: I would like us to go to the doctor's office in the next 2 months. It would make both of us feel better in the long run to know exactly what's going on.

R: Once we know what's going on, we know what our options are. We can try some other things, or know what we can and can't do, and go from there. If there is a health issue, we can get it taken care of.

(The R I need to rework. I don't think any of that is going to sway him)

I can be assertive and maintain my goals. Working the N might be a challenge, but it depends on if I can get DEAR off of the ground

How does it look so far? I'm wanting to actually sit down and write out what I want to say before I talk to him, but I wonder if me reading from a paper will affect him.

[formflier]

 

Don't read from paper... but write it down so you can practice and get familiar.

I would shorten the timeframe... ."next couple weeks" rather than 2 months.  Unless there are real scheduling issues.

I would mention that you will go first.

This is not just for "sex stuff"... .both need a full work up... to include checking the male and female parts...

How does this sound?

[ColdEthyl]

Don't read from paper... but write it down so you can practice and get familiar.

I would shorten the timeframe... ."next couple weeks" rather than 2 months.  Unless there are real scheduling issues.

I would mention that you will go first.

This is not just for "sex stuff"... .both need a full work up... to include checking the male and female parts...

How does this sound?

The reason I said 2 months is because it will probably take that long to get an appointment at IHS. But, I will say we need to call them in 2 weeks. That's good. I'm not going to be able to be checked out with him since I'm not Native, but I could make a similar appointment for him to go with me if that might help him out.

I will practice from the paper. I was thinking he might find that odd

[Grey Kitty]

I'll warn you--I've never tried this, but here's my suggestions:

D: I am concerned about your health. I would like to see you get seen by a doctor to make sure nothing serious is going on.

You are starting with the solution here (see a doctor) where you are supposed to just describe the problem. "Wanting him to see a doctor" is not a fact that you are reacting to; it is your reaction.

E: I love you, and I want you to be healthy. I don't care about sex, I care about you. This is hard for me to talk about because I'm worried about making you feel worse than you already do. I know this is difficult for you, and I am sorry we are going through this.

(I try to throw a bit of empathy in there, so he understands that I am aware this is terrible for him. I also try to use "we" instead of "you" or "I" when I can so he understand we are a team)

I think the empathy is a good addition.

I'm concerned about your statement about not caring about sex. From what you've been saying her, you do care. I'm also afraid he will feel rejected if you say you don't care about sex.

You have said that you are MORE concerned about other potential health issues than you are about the sex. You can work that in.

A: I would like us to go to the doctor's office in the next 2 months. It would make both of us feel better in the long run to know exactly what's going on.

The action you want is for him to set an appointment with the doctor. You mentioned two weeks. I'd suggest one week to make the appointment, and don't even mention how long it will take to get in--Just ask him to make the appointment and then attend it.

R: Once we know what's going on, we know what our options are. We can try some other things, or know what we can and can't do, and go from there. If there is a health issue, we can get it taken care of.

(The R I need to rework. I don't think any of that is going to sway him)

[/quote

You might reinforce that knowing is easier than not knowing.

I can be assertive and maintain my goals. Working the N might be a challenge, but it depends on if I can get DEAR off of the ground

"N" What is your minimum you are willing to negotiate down to?

... .one other question... .you are concerned that this could be a result of some other and more significant health issue he has. How would HE feel about that possibility? Where do you think you should work it in? You had it half-way in the "E".