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[Ginger Head]

Not sure where to start. My sister is currently hospitalized for suicidal ideation. She did attempt suicide one year ago.

[Kwamina]

Hi Ginger Head

The situation with your sister is quite concerning but at least she's in hospital now. Has your sister been diagnosed with BPD? Do you know what kind of treatment she's getting in hospital?

And how are you coping yourself? I can imagine that it can also be very stressful for you knowing that your sister has these thoughts, especially considering the suicide attempt she made a year ago. What happened after that attempt? Did she get any treatment/therapy?

[Ginger Head]

I am so overwhelmed. my 25 yo niece and I are the only ones who understand the frustration and chaos my sister creates.

My sis is 49 and I am 48. She married our pastors son when they were both 18 and were married for 30 yrs. I have known since I was 12 and she was 13 that there was something 'wrong' with her. I have figured out over the last year it is BPD. Twenty years into her marriage she confided in me how her husband really treated her and that he drank secretly. He is an ordained minister, pastors a church, is a hospital chaplain and a high ranking military chaplain. He always appears to be a great dad and husband and life of the party center of attention gregarious fine upstanding citizen. He is actually evil. My first insight was reading People of the Lie by Scott Peck. I recommended it to my sister. I am convinced he has NPD. He discarded her 2 months after their 30th wedding anniversary.

She has not done well and the 'wrong' I have recognized in her since I was 12 increased exponentially. Over the married years she functioned well as a pastors wife and went to nursing school and nurse anesthesia school and raised 2 kids and worked full time after getting her degrees. He 'straightened up' for a while after he figured out she had confided the abuse (mostly verbal name calling accusations lies gaslighting  'I never said that' 'I never did that' 'you're crazy' 'you're too sensitive' 'no one believes you' withholding affection mentioning female admirers etc but also shoving and pushing) to me and he knew I had him figured out. So he 'behaved' for a while. She stayed with him and covered for his alcoholism.

After he'd discarded her (summer 2013) she moved into an apartment and continued to work and see her friends. She went home from work on a Friday barricaded her apartment door filled the tub took approx 20 Xanax 20 klonopin 20 phenergan and 20 ambien and cut both femoral/groin areas both brachial/inner elbow areas and both wrists she opened one artery and got in the full tub. She did not show up for work on Monday and my niece went with police and ems to the apartment. She had crawled out of the tub and was on the tile floor for about 60 hours. Her temp was 90 she had a decubitus ulcer/bedsore her wounds were all infected and she was in rhabdo/kidney failure. It is absolutely miraculous that she survived. After she was medically stable she was committed to a psych hospital and then had to do mandatory outpatient for some time. She went back to work. She was fired (via text) for 'creating a hostile work environment.'  She lived 500 miles away from me and was constantly calling at unreasonable times (middle of the night or while I was at work) and constantly saying things like 'if you don't... .then I may just decide not to be here tomorrow' 'what do you think is the surest way to succeed at killing yourself' and looking up suicide webpages. After 3 months of that with me coddling and coaxing and soothing her I said one day 'do not say that to me again. You saying that to me is cruel and manipulative. If you do decide to take your own life it will not be my fault. I am here for you at reasonable times.'  She stopped the threats.

She has no income and has filed for disability. She did receive unemployment for a while but that ran out. She wanted to move in with me. I continually told her no and I was determined. I told her I would lease an apartment for her close to me if she sent me 3 months rent so I would know I would not be stuck with the bill. She sent it and at the last minute decided she did not like the apartment that SHE picked out and she ended up in my home. My head was absolutely spinning. I said to myself HOW IN THE HELL HAS SHE MANAGED TO DO THIS TO ME? 

I have put up boundaries and rules. She is waiting on disability and she should get alimony for 6 years but her NPD ex is having to have his wages garnished via attorney. So she still has no income yet. She is a nightmare to live with. She is like a teenaged toddler and it is so hard to describe her behaviors that are just exasperating. I have twice behaved in a manner I did not know I was capable of (screaming so forcefully that spit was flying out of my mouth) because of her constant provocations. I am a single mom of a 12 yo and I am ashamed to say she saw me like that.

Now that she is hospitalized I am thinking of not letting her return to my home unless there is a vast improvement in her behavior. She has been in the ER waiting for an open psych bed for 3 nights. She complains about everything and every one. She is constantly requesting the charge nurse the nursing administrator the pharmacist the doctor a menu a medication change a telephone a coke fresh ice etc.

I am worried the psych won't see her as BPD. I've been reading about it for months and I am convinced she is BPD.

Thanks for taking time to read this. Sorry I know I am skipping punctuation but it just takes too long.

[Kwamina]

Hi again,

Thanks for answering my questions and providing this background information. It must have been very scary finding your sister like that after she had taken all those pills. Do you feel like your sister in any way acknowledges that there's something wrong with her?

She has been through a lot and I can see how she could get triggered by the events with her (ex)husband, especially if she indeed does have BPD. People with BPD often have huge abandonment issues and her husband 'discarding' her like this was probably one of the things she feared most.

Did anything happen this time before she was hospitalized that might have triggered her suicidal ideation? How did she end up in hospital this time?

Living with someone who has BPD can be very challenging. Boundaries are very important so it's good that you've put them up. Do you feel like setting and enforcing boundaries with your sister is something you're comfortable with doing? If you want to read more about boundaries, I suggest the following resources:

Getting Our Values and Boundaries in Order

BOUNDARIES: Examples of boundaries

You might also benefit from taking a look at several of the communication techniques described on this site:

Communication Skills - Validation

A 3 Minute Lesson on Ending Conflict

Whether you decide to let her back into your home or not, I really think you can benefit from these techniques.

[Ginger Head]

Thank you for answering.  I feel so alone in this.

I did not find my sister after her suicide attempt. But they hired a housekeeper from a trauma center who cleans the trauma bays in the ER to clean the bathroom after she was found because she was used to seeing so much blood as was there.

The thing I think triggered this deescalation was that when her divorce was final (November 2014) she no longer had insurance that would pay for name brand prozac so her psych office mailed her three months samples of cymbals. I think she really needs the name brand prozac. She has lived here since August 2014 and has not seen ANY healthcare professional (other than I asked her to get a free flu shot at cvs). Mid December I told her she had to see a medical doc a neurologist and a therapist by the end of January or she would have to leave my home. I think she needs neurology eval because she shakes shuffles stutters slurs forgets and gets confused. Her psych from 500 miles away calls in scripts for her here and mails scripts for controlled substances and that psych doc has not seen her since June or July. She needs to be SEEN by a doctor. She is also bent over like an 80 yo and people ask her all the time if she needs help in public because of her appearance.

I will look at those articles. In glad I found this resource.

BTW she woke me up at midnight Saturday night and shrieked that she was going to take herself to ER but I would not let her drive in her state so we called 911.

[Harri]

Hi Ginger Head.  I am sorry you are in such a difficult and stressful situation with your sister. 

Have you told her doctors that she recently had a medication switch?  If you have not, I think it is very important that you mention the medication switch.  Switching antidepressants suddenly can cause a lot of really difficult behaviors including suicide.  The old med usually needs to be tapered off and then gradually build up to the correct dose for the new medication (I am not a doctor, I just take antidepressants and have changed meds once or twice over the years.  Also, I am not personally familiar with Cymbalta at all, but Prozac usually requires tapering)

Another thing to consider is to use your sister's time in the hospital as an opportunity to get her connected to community services.  They have social workers you can talk to and let them know she will not be able to live with you anymore.  I would suggest you let them know you have a young 12 year old child living with you who can not be exposed to her behaviors ... .and then list out the behaviors.  Let them know she will be on her own and homeless.  She may or may not qualify for disability but it is usually a very long and tedious process to get it so keep that in mind in terms of how involved you want to be.  I am thinking the social workers may be able to get her released to a group home or something like that.  Getting her hooked up with professionals and community services may be her best chance at getting better but more importantly, you need to protect yourself and your child. 

In the meantime, I am very glad you decided to reach out for some support and post here.  You are in a difficult position and I hope things work out for you and your child and your sister.  Please keep posting. 

[Anna Butterfly]

Hi Ginger Head-

I am so sorry to hear of all that you have been through with your sister, her suicide attempt, current hospitalization, and her behavior living with you.  You are not alone, my sister also attempted suicide, blamed me and the rest of the family, and had been using threats of self harm to get us to comply with her demands.  As with your situation, when my sister was inpatient she complained the whole time and had all kinds of ridiculous demands for those she had just blamed for her suicide attempt.  It's a terrible situation for all involved.  The manner of your sister's suicide attempt is very extreme so hopefully the psychiatrist recognizes BPD.  I agree that you need to protect yourself and your daughter.  In my case it was her suicide attempt that led me to distance myself and my kids from her behavior, I didn't want to expose them to someone who tried to make others responsible for her own life or death choices.  You'll find others here in similar situations, so again- you are not alone and keep posting, it will help.

Sorry you are in this situation,

-Anna

[Ginger Head]

Thank you to every one who is replying.

Sis was transferred yesterday to psych hospital. I am going there today to see her. She called yesterday as I was going to pick my daughter up from school. I asked her to put together a list of things I could bring her and I would see her tomorrow (today). Of course she wanted me to come NOW. I said no that I would see her tomorrow (today). I asked her what the psych doc did/said. She rambled a lot. Is it common for BPD to to take every sentence from someone and scrutinize it like 'when he said ... .he really meant... .' and 'I know what you are really thinking'.  I have told her that she does not know what I am thinking and that I will tell her what I am thinking and she will not tell me what I am thinking because she does not know what I am thinking until I tell her. (Sorry I know that's a kooky sentence). Any way on the phone she just drags everything out and goes off on tangents not related to what the psych doc said so I have to keep refocusing her. I arrived to pick up my daughter and asked my sis if she was permitted to call me back in 2 hours so I could be home and focus on our conversation and write down what she needed me to bring. She just kept talking. I asked again and she said she could call me back and she just kept talking. I told her again I need to hang up and she just kept talking. I asked her did she understand I said I need to hang up and she said 'oh I know what I was going to tell you' and I hung up on her. She did not call me back as she said she would. This is just a SMALL example of her behaviour toward me. Not accepting limits or boundaries. Then I actually feel bad/guilty for hanging up on her and I worry because she didn't call me back. Ugh

As I see in the replies there should be social workers available to help. I am going to ask about that today and see if I can convey my observations of my sis to the psych doc and make sure she has told them the correct things about her meds.

Anna Butterfly how did you 'distance yourself' from your sis?

Many thanks to all!

[Kwamina]

Hi again Ginger Head,

Did you see you sister yesterday? If so, how did it go?

Is it common for BPD to to take every sentence from someone and scrutinize it like 'when he said ... .he really meant... .' and 'I know what you are really thinking'.  I have told her that she does not know what I am thinking and that I will tell her what I am thinking and she will not tell me what I am thinking because she does not know what I am thinking until I tell her. (Sorry I know that's a kooky sentence).

Here's another one: I know you know that I know that you know that I know you know

The behavior you describe here is something my uBPD sister does a lot too. Probably a result of distorted thinking patterns and the fact that she (my sister) let's herself be defined by the opinions and approval of others.

[Ginger Head]

Hi Kwamina!

Thank you for responding and making me laugh!

Our visit yesterday went ok until I tried to leave and she then wanted to start a conversation. Then when I repeated that I was leaving she cried and called out my name as I walked away. Then she called me as I was driving home and wanted me to pull over and talk to her. I told her no and have not talked with her since. I did tell her while I was there that she could not come back to my home in her current state as she thinks she is being released Friday. While she lived with me she would wait until I was leaving to pick my daughter up from school or when I went to bed to try and start conversations with me.

I did get what I think is GREAT news which has provided me such a feeling of relief. The counselor at the psych hosp called me and said sis had given him permission to talk to me and could he ask me some questions which was of course ok. I told him I was glad someone called because I wanted to make sure the team there knew I was not allowing her back in my home. He understood that and asked what I thought was going on and I told him all about her history and her dx of depression anxiety some social phobia and complex ptsd from years of abuse by husband with uNPD and therefore narcissistic abuse syndrome. She has seen a private psych doc for 8-10 years but I believe she has BPD. I gave him multiple examples of her behaviour. Then i asked him if the team had recognized any BPD traits in her. He said he could not disclose that to me but if someone did have BPD that meds would not help and DBT was the recommended tx. I told him I understood that. We actually talked for a long while and he eventually said there was a place north of my city where they were going to try to get her some treatment. I asked DBT tx? and he hesitated then said yes. I said her recommended tx is DBT? He said yes. So he kind of told me without telling me that they recognized her as borderline!  I had such a huge sense of relief and actually felt physically lighter!  I cried a little and told him that I was so afraid I would hit a brick wall when I told the team I thought she had BPD and I was so relieved that it sounded like they recognized it and I knew he could not outright tell me but then he said the team had discussed that in the morning report. I know this is no where near the end of the struggle but having her dx and DBT available reassures me I am doing the right thing I not allowing her to stay in my home. At one point in our conversation he asked me what I thought the plan could be since she was not coming to my house and he said 'not that it is your responsibility to have a plan for her' - that helped me a lot too. It is amazing to me that she has seems psych doc for so long who has no inkling that she has BPD Yet she was in this hosp 36 hours and they dx it.

I do not want my sis out of my life just out of my home. I will tell her this clearly. She can come and do laundry here and have meals with us and we can watch movies together and all. She may just shut me out completely. I don't know what is going to happen. But she will no longer live with me and I'm not going to feel guilty about it.

[Harri]

I do not want my sis out of my life just out of my home. I will tell her this clearly. She can come and do laundry here and have meals with us and we can watch movies together and all. She may just shut me out completely. I don't know what is going to happen. But she will no longer live with me and I'm not going to feel guilty about it.

  What a relief!  I am very glad that you are getting some validation and support.  Your sister is better off having the professionals help her.  It really is the best ,if not the only, chance she has to get better.

[Anna Butterfly]

I am so happy to hear about your conversation with the counselor, that is great news they recognize she needs help.  Good job maintaining boundaries about what you can and can not do in terms of supporting her (i.e. not living with you).  That can be difficult to do but necessary for protection of your own family.

You asked what I did to distance myself in my situation- I no longer have any contact with my sister without others present.  I don't allow my kids to have any unsupervised contact with her either.  That includes phone calls and email conversations.  My sister does not pull the "look what you made me do, I hurt/will hurt/did hurt myself because of you" card unless she can be sure no one else is watching.  I needed to remove myself and my family from that dynamic; we are not equipped to deal with that. 

You need to do whatever you feel is best in your situation, it sounds like you already have some boundaries you are comfortable with so that's good to hear.  Also good to hear that your sister is getting the diagnosis and professional support she needs.  It often seems like getting the actual problem out in the open is the toughest thing to do- so it's great news you shared about your conversation with your sister's counselor.

-Anna

[Ginger Head]

Thank you Harris and Anna!

When she is discharged she will have to come to my house to get her things. I'm having bad visions about how that might not go well at all. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[Anna Butterfly]

If it were me, I'd ask where she will be living and offer to box up her things and have them shipped to her new home ahead of her discharge.  If she does need to come to your house, definitely have someone else there with you- preferably someone she doesn't know so well.  My own sister is really well behaved in front of strangers, the worst is always reserved for family.  I used friends and neighbors as human shields and it worked pretty well.  Her counselor might have some suggestions on dealing with her housing after discharge as well.

[Ginger Head]

Thank you Anna.

I had a plan to pick my sister up on discharge early in the day but it got messed up because I had to go to my daughters school for a meeting. My sister ended up taking a cab to my house and I left her purse and car keys in her car at my house but she could not enter my house so it worked out ok. She came by later (after calling me first as I told her to do) and worked on some paperwork. She had arranged to stay in a hotel which she cannot really afford at $83 a night instead of 7 nights at an extended stay hotel for $170. I said go you realize that will be $830 for 10 nights when you can get 7 nights for $170?  She told me to let her worry about her finances - most sensible thing she has said to me in weeks. She says she will do the outpatient DBT starting next week so we will see. She is coming this evening to do her laundry. I'm just so relieved she is not living in my home any more!

[Linda Maria]

Hi ginger head - I have been reading your posts with interest.  Big congratulations on what you have achieved so far, I was so pleased for you when I read that it sounds like the BPD has been recognised and she is getting the right help for it.  And you are doing a good job setting boundaries as well - and sounds like it is working.  Like Anna Butterfly,  after 2 horrible years of my uBPDsis making my life hell after my Mum passed away, I am also virtually NC with her, and would not dream of being alone in a room with her.  NC has worked for me - it enabled me to calm down, stop obsessing about everything she said and did, I somehow learned to accept my worrying and trying to pre-empt things made no difference, other than making me ill.  Well done for how you're managing it.  Best wishes. 

[Ginger Head]

Thank you Linda!

You said:

I somehow learned to accept my worrying and trying to pre-empt things made no difference, other than making me ill.

I need to learn that next. I'm glad to know it can be done.

My sis is sending texts to my 25 yo niece (her daughter) now complaining and lying about me. My niece understands fully that her mom is a pwBPD and that her moms rants are baseless.

My sis has been set up for DBT and her insurance will actually pay for it but I do not know if she is going to go. She is spouting about how she cannot concentrate on an intensive therapy while, "according to Maslows Hirarchy her basic needs of shelter and food are not being met."  She is staying in a hotel and eating out at KFC and pizzerias.

Her perception of reality is so twisted and warped. No matter how much I explain and explain she in no way can see the truth as it really is. I know this is part of the PD and I have started to stop explaining things and just give her very short direct answers when she questions me. Or I simply say I'm not going to answer that. I do not owe you an explanation.

Thank you for reading this, conveying your understanding and for all of your encouragement. This site has been a Godsend for me!

[Linda Maria]

Hi ginger head!  I think I was lucky to some extent, that the pwBPD in my life is my sister, who has no partner or children, rather than a partner or a child, that I think must be so much harder to detach from.  Whatever I said or did just elicited the most vile and weird responses, and I just got to a stage where I had to put a stop to it.  In my case, this all really started after my Mum passed away, so I was bound up with her legally as we were joint executors of my Mum's estate.  I realised it would go on for ever (as have all her other dramas - literally years some of them) unless I got tough, and accepted I would have to pay for a solicitor to help me.  He has been worth every penny, mainly because all the hate mail now goes to him, and distancing myself did reduce her bothering me - I think she realised she wasn't getting to me so much.  She has moved on to new audiences now - I know of at least 2 people she is supposedly suing or making official complaints about, who have also done absolutely nothing wrong!  Sounds like you are aware that really, there isn't anything you can do other than set boundaries and protect yourself, anything else doesn't actually help them anyway.  But I totally get that you feel the need to try, I did too for quite a long time, I kept hoping that if I sent nice letters, not mentioning all the nastiness, and just tried to be business-like about the estate, she would co-operate, as it made no sense for her not too, she was costing us both money with all the silliness and delays.  But it seemed like anything to do with me was a trigger for more abuse, so I accept now, that the only way to have any sort of peace is to be NC.  She is very lucky - sounds like if she does get the help, and works at it, then when it is possible you will be there for her, but you can't sacrifice your life to this sort of hysteria, it is completely futile.  I wish you well with it.  JB