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Author Topic: One BPDs perspective on relationships and break ups (Part 2)  (Read 9262 times)
cosmonaut
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« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2015, 08:16:52 PM »

Wow. This is hard for me to read.  I try to have as much compassion as I can for pwBPD.  I know that they have a rotten lot in life and they are facing what, even to a non, seem to be near insurmountable problems.  So, I try to give sufferers every benefit of the doubt.  But the selfishness of that response just plain bothers me.  It triggers me, actually.   Literally EVERY single word is about her.  There is not even the faintest hint of concern or care of anyone else - most especially these past boyfriends.   I suppose the idea that anyone else would have emotions, and that they may be grievously hurt too doesn't even so much as occur to her.  The evident unconcern with which she talks about HER need to be rid of ex lovers because HER emotions just can't handle it.   Well, it makes me furious.  If she wasn't so ill, I wouldn't know what to call it except evil.   Her illness may remove her culpability, but it is truly vile behavior.

I have biploar disorder.  I know ALL about out of control emotions and feeling things intensely.  I get that.  Oh how I get that.  I do have trouble understanding how someone can be so completely selfish, however.  Even little children aren't like this.  It's just surreal to me.   Anyway, I suppose I just needed to vent.   Super triggering.   My own fault for reading it, though.
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HappyNihilist
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« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2015, 10:24:00 PM »

Literally EVERY single word is about her.  There is not even the faintest hint of concern or care of anyone else - most especially these past boyfriends.   I suppose the idea that anyone else would have emotions, and that they may be grievously hurt too doesn't even so much as occur to her.  The evident unconcern with which she talks about HER need to be rid of ex lovers because HER emotions just can't handle it. 

cosmonaut, you hit the nail on the head.

A pwBPD is focused on their own emotional survival at all costs. They have no sense of self to cling to, and emotional annihilation is a very real fear for them. When a pwBPD is triggered and these survival mechanisms kick in, there truly is no room in his/her mind for anyone else's feelings or needs.

Since borderlines feel things so intensely, and have trouble regulating their mood states (and trouble recovering from intense states), they generally they try to stay in a "detached protector" mode to avoid emotional overload. The detached protector mode includes avoidant behavior, emotional detachment, etc. Anything to numb the pain and shut off those feelings.
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JRT
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« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2015, 01:10:23 AM »

it did and didn't... .I am a bit confused... .see below:


She blocks you on Facebook and deletes all mutual friends as well (mine did the same)

Why did she do this?

She did this because, seeing mutual friends or having them on her news feeds may well trigger her again, this could either be through seeing you in a picture or because they may relate a certain friend with a memory from the past that you once shared.  She deleted you because If she has a new boyfriend she is scared that she will confuse herself and mix positive and negative emotions together.  For example, If your not in your exes life shes much less likely to want to talk about you to her new boyfriend.  This is solely because if she does mention you it may well trigger her to push the new guy away through resentment of the abandonment we apparently once caused them.  

I can see this: it makes perfect sense. This are reminders of me just like a photo, a favorite place, a song, etc.or anything else that triggers memories of me. But why would she demand that her family and friends do the same? She would never see me in her feed? [/quote]
This is where it is just not the case. She had only moved into my home 3 weeks prior. We have completed some summer long projects (her sons graduation party, it was an enormous undertaking... .we worked for weeks to prepared for it... .as well as some other stuff)... .we began to focus on our wedding and met with a jeweler and began to discuss venues... .we were just about to merge finance right before she disappeared... .all indications to her were that we were moving CLOSER not that I gave any feelers that I was going to dump her. It was through this and a couple of triggers (moving into my house, loss of full control =trigger; here 18 year old son moving out, =abandonment trigger; I went on a business trip= abandonment trigger) that I figured facilitated her flight. (and God

She and I had an otherwise great relationship. It was not at all defined like many of the stormy relationships that I have been reading about here. They almost all seem to be characterized by angers, lies, infidelity and general chaos. She and I never argued or disagreed... .we had similar interests, goals in life, and just lined up in general. That is what makes mine the more confusing and painful. Her family, friends and co-workers thought the world of me and showered me with compliments and were very glad that 'she finally found a great man'. So when you and others suggest NC, I am not expecting the insanity that others seem to get bombarded with on a recycle attempt... .I am not certain that I can ever BE with her again (I have to admit, it IS very tempting), but talking to her is something that ,I can definitely handle and would probably welcome. Does this make sense? Have you seen this before? Its confusing to me since part of her are SO BPD while others are not.  [/quote]
Ok, i'll have a go at answering these questions.

1. Why get her friends to delete/block you.

Answer - 2 words - smear campaign! In general Cluster B's cannot accept responsibility for their own actions. They usually project their flaws and weaknesses onto you. They're always the victim. Their black and white thinking means you're either all bad or all good. Usually when they split with you they'll paint you as the bad guy to their friends and family. These people will hear how bad you are, usually incorporating all of the Cluster B's own weaknesses. For example - he was controlling, manipulative, possessive, jealous etc. If people don't know any better then, they'll believe what they're being told and will delete/block you and back up the person with the PD. 

I'll go with that... .there is one rogue straggler that declined to unfriend me. I asked him what she was saying. He inferred that there was some sort of horrible something or other but declined to tell me what it was. I sensed that it was so outrageous, but BELIEVABLE, that he was more uncomfortable telling me than anything else. I can only imagine.

So SURE there is a smear campaign, but why is the next step to insist that they unfriend me on FB. I mean, I assume that she said blah, blah, blah and then claimed on the basis of such and such, you must now cut ties whit him on FB. See how there are two separate things here?

2. Maybe your GF wasn't BPD? Maybe she just had some BPD traits?

I don't know your story but what i do know is that on my first break up with my exGF she became scared and ran. It was like she realised that i loved her and couldn't deal with it. She became engulfed. She still NEEDED me (that doesn't mean that she WANTED me) but she was freaking out. On the one hand she wanted to be free, on the other she needed the attachment. She never stopped contacting me though, she just became seriously dysregulated.[/quote]
Mine did something similar. Clearly, you and her had reviewed the episode to some extent after the fact so that you could try to assemble some understanding of what transpired. I didn't have that luxury and it was swept under the rug.

Its funny, if the breakup were not considered, I would have a hard time justifying her as a BPD. It was the breakup(s) and the associated behavior around them that led me to this conclusion. Granted that without the flight, there is still some evidence of BPD, but it is subtle.

It's been 4 months since the b/e... .and really only less than a month of nc (although all contact was indirect)... .why do I have this gut feeling that this is not over? I want to caution; its not necessarily what I want, but I have this instinct about it.
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JRT
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« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2015, 01:15:37 AM »

One last thing:

I have seen here in the frequency that it is almost a universal truth that BPD's either have a replacement already in motion or they quickly find one, ANY one. OR they go back to an ex. However, historically, mine took time off... .often a very long time. During those times she occupied herself with her son who, to her admission, acted somewhat like a husband surrogate (interestingly, she DID rage at him like a typical BPD... .but never me).

In the way of her exes, all three of them (yes, only three men in her life at age 44), one is no where to be found, the other is married and the third is 1000 miles away.

Sorry, i have to ask... .how do you know this is true? My ex told me she'd only had 2 relationships before me. She also told me she'd only slept with a handful of people. As time passed by and with each recycle, more and more of the reality was unveiled. By the end, the person i was with wasn't even recognisable as the person i'd fallen in love with. Turned out most of what she'd told me was false, she'd actually had numerous relationships, slept with a crazy amount of men and pretty much lived a double life.

Anything could be true, I cannot know 100% for certain... .however, I have zero evidence of any other men than the three... .but I have a ton of evidence to the contrary, not iron clad, but strong enough. She really had little incentive to keep them from me as well. Notwithstanding, she had a true problem child with 100% custody and a full time job AND for several years a school schedule (she earned her bachelors and MBA along the way) really gave her a huge logistical road block to promiscuity. Also notwithstanding was her inability to juggle her schedule.

Of course now, closer to work and with her son out of the house (though, I suspect that his step dad threw him out and he is now back with mom), she might have more ability to date... .dunno.
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2015, 01:18:00 AM »

cosmonaut, you hit the nail on the head.

A pwBPD is focused on their own emotional survival at all costs. They have no sense of self to cling to, and emotional annihilation is a very real fear for them. When a pwBPD is triggered and these survival mechanisms kick in, there truly is no room in his/her mind for anyone else's feelings or needs.

Since borderlines feel things so intensely, and have trouble regulating their mood states (and trouble recovering from intense states), they generally they try to stay in a "detached protector" mode to avoid emotional overload. The detached protector mode includes avoidant behavior, emotional detachment, etc. Anything to numb the pain and shut off those feelings.

I know you are right, HappyNihilist, but I suppose I can still be astonished at how cruel this disorder can be.   How utterly heartless it is.  It is simply not normal to encounter people who terribly hurt those close to them with so little remorse, repentance, or even acknowledgement.  Normally, this would rightfully be considered to be wicked behavior.  The ways of evil people.  But I don't believe that pwBPD are evil - they are sick.  So, it's very hard to see how someone could behave like this.  I know perfectly well firsthand about intense emotions, dissociation, and self-destructive coping, but not having BPD I really do struggle to understand how they can behave with such heartless cruelty.   I have never in my life done such things to people and I am reasonably certain that I feel things every bit as intensely as my ex.  I don't destroy people because I'm a total mess, though.  I've never done that.  So why do they?  Something truly terrible has gone wrong in their development.  It has to have.  Things did not form correctly and certain critical connections were not made.

I was a lifeguard when I was a young teenager.   I remember being solemnly drilled that a drowning person won't hesitate to climb on top of you in desperation to try and save themselves.  I think that must be how it is with pwBPD.  Somehow, some ancient survival center in the back of the primordial brain is triggered and they simply react without a second thought.  Of course, they aren't actually dying, but I suspect their brains somehow interpret it like they are.
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JRT
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« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2015, 01:25:03 AM »

cosmonaut, you hit the nail on the head.

A pwBPD is focused on their own emotional survival at all costs. They have no sense of self to cling to, and emotional annihilation is a very real fear for them. When a pwBPD is triggered and these survival mechanisms kick in, there truly is no room in his/her mind for anyone else's feelings or needs.

Since borderlines feel things so intensely, and have trouble regulating their mood states (and trouble recovering from intense states), they generally they try to stay in a "detached protector" mode to avoid emotional overload. The detached protector mode includes avoidant behavior, emotional detachment, etc. Anything to numb the pain and shut off those feelings.

I know you are right, HappyNihilist, but I suppose I can still be astonished at how cruel this disorder can be.   How utterly heartless it is.  It is simply not normal to encounter people who terribly hurt those close to them with so little remorse, repentance, or even acknowledgement.  Normally, this would rightfully be considered to be wicked behavior.  The ways of evil people.  But I don't believe that pwBPD are evil - they are sick.  So, it's very hard to see how someone could behave like this.  I know perfectly well firsthand about intense emotions, dissociation, and self-destructive coping, but not having BPD I really do struggle to understand how they can behave with such heartless cruelty.   I have never in my life done such things to people and I am reasonably certain that I feel things every bit as intensely as my ex.  I don't destroy people because I'm a total mess, though.  I've never done that.  So why do they?  Something truly terrible has gone wrong in their development.  It has to have.  Things did not form correctly and certain critical connections were not made.

I was a lifeguard when I was a young teenager.   I remember being solemnly drilled that a drowning person won't hesitate to climb on top of you in desperation to try and save themselves.  I think that must be how it is with pwBPD.  Somehow, some ancient survival center in the back of the primordial brain is triggered and they simply react without a second thought.  Of course, they aren't actually dying, but I suspect their brains somehow interpret it like they are.

What an outstanding analogy!
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lipstick
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« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2015, 03:38:51 AM »

Jammo,

Thank you for this post. It's interesting.

Perhaps it's part of the reason why my ex blocked me on Facebook a year ago. He waited for over a year to reach out after No Contact. Tried to "Friend" me on FB. I didn't accept (was waiting on some type of communication). He blocked me. I've been blocked ever since. However, he continues to check up on me via an alternate account that he activates whenever he wants to spy on my FB page. Then he deactivates the account again.

I care less and less as more time goes by... .Smiling (click to insert in post)

How did you discover the account lipstick?

Hi JRT,

I don't want to hijack this thread - so I'll try to make my response brief.

When the ex and I were together - he made an alternate FB account. Wanted to use it as a sort of "blog" about "island life" and about me. Not too long after he blocked me from his regular FB account - he deactivated the alternate account. This was another slap in my face as I had sent him a few messages thru the alternate after I was blocked. Tried to explain myself, etc...

Anyway - how do I know he stalks my page? I'm guilty of checking out his page from time to time as well. Thru my mother's account. Also - mutual friends still update me on his behaviors. We all went to high school together, and they are saddened at what he has become (or always was!).  So for one example - the ex had been really quiet on FB for a long time after he dumped me. Last summer I put up a cover photo on my FB page of a place he and I frequented. He has a home that has been in his family for several generations. It means a LOT to him and he is fiercely protective of it. This picture was of the lake that is on the property. That same evening - the ex puts up a picture of the same location - along with photos of the late relatives - and does a long-winded narrative about "unconditional love, getting back to the lake, teaching our kids to cherish it, blah, blah, blah".  Coincidence? Absolutely not. He was having a reaction to the picture that I put up. That place was very special to both of us. His spouse hates it there. I fell in love with it instantly.

There are other examples - but that is the first one that comes to mind. Plus - I do believe he feels very badly about what he did to me. But in his mind - he did the right thing. However, it doesn't stop him from wanting to check up on me occasionally. And whenever I post about my own significant other - it triggers him big time! I recall when we were together, he wouldn't even use my married name. Would always use my maiden name.

Sorry for the long post. Hope I answered your question.     
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JRT
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« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2015, 10:48:00 AM »

yes you did... .thank you

Don't want to hijack this thread either... .but did you do the breaking up? Did he attempt contact with you after the fact? Or want to get back together where you refused? I am trying to balance the FB behavior against her other actions in my case where mine b/u and avoided contact as if it were about as painful as a gunshot to the head... .THEN she stalks me on FB? Knowing this, and recalling things she told me the last time we b/u, my gut told me that she wanted to come chase her... .that some of it were a test (she was infuriated when I rejoined a dating site after we had broken up in the past... .probably is now as well). But a call from the cops told me otherwise.
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« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2015, 11:05:50 AM »

If any of you guys have been reading any of my topics regarding my past relationship you would know that it wasn't any easy ride when it came to finding closure.  I recently posted about speaking to a BPD sufferer on a different forum asking questions that i hoped would clear the FOG.  I will copy and paste her 2nd response to the few questions that I asked, her response was as follows:

 It makes me so incredibly happy and thrilled that I was able to help!

As for the whole picture thing, I assume that this boyfriend may not mean that much to her. This is quite laughable, but I'm very sensitive and picky to what I post online, ESPECIALLY when previous boyfriends of mine can see it. She probably didn't tell you about her new boyfriend because she only thinks her new boyfriend and whatever emotions she feels for him are real whenever they are physically together. I did that a few times; I would be dating someone, but whenever they weren't literally with me, it would feel like they never existed. I believe this is another part of the disorder whenever BPD sufferers always have to be with someone or that person doesn't feel real. I believe this ties in with attachment and abandonment issues.

She doesn't want her new boyfriend to associate with you at all most likely because she doesn't want to bring you up anymore. After my previous breakup, I would always avoid talking about ex as much as possible because it would bring back all of the hurt emotions if I didn't. I believe she uses him as a representation in her life as moving on, and due to all of the pain she has experienced with her emotions towards you and the breakup, I doubt she would want to mix those two things together because it would make her feel that pain again.

She will most likely try to contact you again. Depending on how it makes her feel when she attempts to contact you will determine whether it happens more frequently or not. If she does contact you though, it will most likely result in her only blocking you again.

You are still on her mind, but I think additionally that she doesn't want you to be on her mind. I do believe she goes through phases of truly wanting to move on, and she also goes through phases of wanting to go back. I feel like she tries to contact you whenever she wants to go back to you, and she'll block you after because she then remembers that she wants to move on because that pain she was feeling (and possibly is still currently feeling) is unbearable.

I must add that she will truly move on eventually. One day, she will no longer feel the hurt from the breakup as severe as before. She won't think about it constantly. She'll be able to bring you up because she knows all of that is truly in her past. I think she still believes that there is a chance for y'all, which is why she is blocking you and cutting you off entirely. If she thinks there's still a chance, then she thinks there is also a chance for her to go through all of that hurt again, and that hurt is probably the thing that she is trying her hardest to avoid.

After my previous breakup, it was so incredibly difficult to even mention my ex's name. Any time someone would bring him up, I would feel this heaviness in my chest that was too overpowering. After I had genuinely moved on, I didn't have a problem with talking about him at all. In fact, I eventually unblocked him on all the sites he had been blocked on and I actually followed him on a few of his social media accounts (which was an incredibly large jump from not even being able to speak about him). I never tried to contact him again because I had moved on and I didn't feel it was worth it to open that wound again because I didn't want to risk feeling all of that pain again because I guessed that it would most likely come back. Also, a lot of my emotions for him had toned down so I didn't even feel like talking to him just because there was no point for me. I must mention that it took a good long while to move on, but I did it.

Again, I'm glad I could previously help and I do hope that I can help you again.


So why am I posting this?

I know everybody is an individual, but, if you can relate to some of these behaviors from your exes, It has left me to believe that, when we are blocked and cut off its down to emotional pain they cant face (we already know this) but, Its made me come to the following conclusion:

When an ex BPD adds us back as friend on social media or texts us without the need to block us it is because they are now indifferent towards us, and the pain they once felt has finally gone.  Where as, when your ex reaches out then either blocks you or ignores you its because they are probably still very much attached to us.  It doesn't matter if theres a new person in their life or even married, the point Im making here is this.  When a BPD can finally add you back on social media or text us without pushing us away, then and only then can we say that they have truly moved on.  The ones that call then block, or text then ignore are the ones that still want to go back to us BUT they are to scared of the emotional pain they once endured towards us.  

I don't think a true BPD ever moves on. Especially if they have NPD traits, like my ex does heavily. I think it's more likely they would contact you freely once WE have moved on. It's much the same reason why they cheat on you with random people and tell you that the person means nothing. It's why they get all hot and heavy chasing married people. You see, once WE move on, when they pursue meaningless relationships, or when they court married people, they really "feel" that person is special. They do so, without connecting the dots though because of their lack of self perspective. The reason they "feel" that way about us, or the random guy, or the married guy is not because they learned something new. It's because WE are in a position where WE are not emotionally available. It's not US that turns them on and suddenly makes them go into a contact frenzy, it's the fact that we no longer have a need for intimacy with them at those points, and that makes us suddenly attractive and less threatening.

A good example of this is a BPD being the 3rd part of a relationship between 2 married people. Guy meets girl, guy is married. Not terribly happy, but not terribly unhappy. Guy is not available. Girl see challenge, sees safety in getting attention and pursuit of someone who won't threaten them with real intimacy. Girl love bombs. Guy leaves wife. Guy is suddenly emotionally available and seeks intimacy. Girl pulls away from guy who left wife. marriage is ruined. Girl says, hey I don't know what you thought was going to happen but I don't want this, and leaves.  

It's not about anything other than the safety of having a relationship without real intimacy. At least that's the behaviors I see.
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Maternus
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« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2015, 11:22:10 AM »

A good example of this is a BPD being the 3rd part of a relationship between 2 married people. Guy meets girl, guy is married. Not terribly happy, but not terribly unhappy. Guy is not available. Girl see challenge, sees safety in getting attention and pursuit of someone who won't threaten them with real intimacy. Girl love bombs. Guy leaves wife. Guy is suddenly emotionally available and seeks intimacy. Girl pulls away from guy who left wife. marriage is ruined. Girl says, hey I don't know what you thought was going to happen but I don't want this, and leaves.

My exBPDgf did it twice. She ruined my marriage and left me to ruin the marriage of my replacement.
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anxiety5
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« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2015, 11:28:11 AM »

A good example of this is a BPD being the 3rd part of a relationship between 2 married people. Guy meets girl, guy is married. Not terribly happy, but not terribly unhappy. Guy is not available. Girl see challenge, sees safety in getting attention and pursuit of someone who won't threaten them with real intimacy. Girl love bombs. Guy leaves wife. Guy is suddenly emotionally available and seeks intimacy. Girl pulls away from guy who left wife. marriage is ruined. Girl says, hey I don't know what you thought was going to happen but I don't want this, and leaves.

My exBPDgf did it twice. She ruined my marriage and left me to ruin the marriage of my replacement.

She told me when we met that her therapist hit on her all the time. And she'd say it with a smile. When I obviously said that's completely unethical, and she should see someone new, she agreed and stopped going to him. Thing is, she never found someone new. Later in the relationship she blamed me for my jealously as the reason she stopped going to a counselor... .

Insanity.

I'm sorry to be right about that. My ex's ex husband was an introvert. A passive guy. I connect all the dots now. She once told me that she "never trusted anyone more than him" Yet he left her. He was a good guy, he just never bit on anything she ever did. She called him "Boring" She also said that she once saw an ex at a game, and her husband was there. She told me, "he still wanted me back" And I said, did he get jealous? "She said, no. He never said even a word about it. Even when I'd bring it up that I saw him"

Bing Bing Bing Bing Bing. All the dots connected looking back.

She trusts someone that is detached with no sense of intimacy. She found him boring, because he never bit on her attempts to fester up some good ole triangulation or jealousy creation. Never giving a good rise, he was just boring. And, her last comment, she sounds as if she was trying to fester up a storm, and was almost disappointed that he never said anything.

Jesus. Looking back it's just disturbing this is how these people think.
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JRT
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« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2015, 11:52:18 AM »

So this all would beg the question; how many extramarital affairs are caused by BPD or mental illness. WOW

@Anxiety... .you said something that I have never heard here: she never found someone new?
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« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2015, 11:58:28 AM »

One last thing:

I have seen here in the frequency that it is almost a universal truth that BPD's either have a replacement already in motion or they quickly find one, ANY one. OR they go back to an ex. However, historically, mine took time off... .often a very long time. During those times she occupied herself with her son who, to her admission, acted somewhat like a husband surrogate (interestingly, she DID rage at him like a typical BPD... .but never me).

In the way of her exes, all three of them (yes, only three men in her life at age 44), one is no where to be found, the other is married and the third is 1000 miles away.

Sorry, i have to ask... .how do you know this is true? My ex told me she'd only had 2 relationships before me. She also told me she'd only slept with a handful of people. As time passed by and with each recycle, more and more of the reality was unveiled. By the end, the person i was with wasn't even recognisable as the person i'd fallen in love with. Turned out most of what she'd told me was false, she'd actually had numerous relationships, slept with a crazy amount of men and pretty much lived a double life.

Anything could be true, I cannot know 100% for certain... .however, I have zero evidence of any other men than the three... .but I have a ton of evidence to the contrary, not iron clad, but strong enough. She really had little incentive to keep them from me as well. Notwithstanding, she had a true problem child with 100% custody and a full time job AND for several years a school schedule (she earned her bachelors and MBA along the way) really gave her a huge logistical road block to promiscuity. Also notwithstanding was her inability to juggle her schedule.

Of course now, closer to work and with her son out of the house (though, I suspect that his step dad threw him out and he is now back with mom), she might have more ability to date... .dunno.

Obviously not everyone with BPD or Cluster B PDs are the same but, they do share many characteristics. From my experiences they mellow with age and gain more control over their impulses. Thing is though and i'm sorry to say this, if she really does have BPD then, there's no way in hell she's only had 3 relationships by the age of 44!

I heard the exact same things from my exGF. Turned out she'd had an incredible amount of relationships, most of them very short term and in addition to that, slept with a record breaking amount of men! From my experience, ANYTHING goes with them. The stuff i eventually found out about was WAY beyond what i could ever have imagined. She led a double life that no-one knew about. She was like two completely different people.

They will simply tell you whatever you want to hear. They will also tell you these things at first, because its what they desperately want to be true. They attach to somebody and that person becomes their saviour, they get a fresh start, for a while they can be "happy", they can be the person that they so long to be. Its like they see themselves through your eyes for a while. But at some point the mask starts to slip, they can't maintain the illusion, they can't keep the dark side at bay and they then need to find someone else to repeat the cycle with. If they NEED you (not WANT you, NEED you) or can use you in some way and they know they can get back from whatever happened at the end of the relationship then, they will be back at some point to test the water.    
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« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2015, 12:15:02 PM »

Obviously not everyone with BPD or Cluster B PDs are the same but, they do share many characteristics. From my experiences they mellow with age and gain more control over their impulses. Thing is though and i'm sorry to say this, if she really does have BPD then, there's no way in hell she's only had 3 relationships by the age of 44!

I heard the exact same things from my exGF. Turned out she'd had an incredible amount of relationships, most of them very short term and in addition to that, slept with a record breaking amount of men! From my experience, ANYTHING goes with them. The stuff i eventually found out about was WAY beyond what i could ever have imagined. She led a double life that no-one knew about. She was like two completely different people.

They will simply tell you whatever you want to hear. They will also tell you these things at first, because its what they desperately want to be true. They attach to somebody and that person becomes their saviour, they get a fresh start, for a while they can be "happy", they can be the person that they so long to be. Its like they see themselves through your eyes for a while. But at some point the mask starts to slip, they can't maintain the illusion, they can't keep the dark side at bay and they then need to find someone else to repeat the cycle with. If they NEED you (not WANT you, NEED you) or can use you in some way and they know they can get back from whatever happened at the end of the relationship then, they will be back at some point to test the water.    

When someone is driven to attach to become whole as well as impulsive, and discovers the lure of their sexuality can be used to affect an attachment easily and quickly, it's pretty easy to see why borderlines can be so promiscuous.  Plus if they were both abused and negected as children, a borderline could be driven subconsciously to associate sexuality with attention and validation.  The big question is once we experienced the shallowness of the connections that come out of that kind of motivation, why did we stick around?  I stuck around because I didn't know how disordered she was or even what a disorder was, so let's just love her and be consistent and the relationship I want will eventually emerge.  That was dumb, but apparently lessons needed to be learned.
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« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2015, 12:25:35 PM »

One last thing:

I have seen here in the frequency that it is almost a universal truth that BPD's either have a replacement already in motion or they quickly find one, ANY one. OR they go back to an ex. However, historically, mine took time off... .often a very long time. During those times she occupied herself with her son who, to her admission, acted somewhat like a husband surrogate (interestingly, she DID rage at him like a typical BPD... .but never me).

In the way of her exes, all three of them (yes, only three men in her life at age 44), one is no where to be found, the other is married and the third is 1000 miles away.

Anything could be possible... .but I am working with evidence: I have none that supports any more than those three men. I have even more evidence that supports that it would have been very difficult for her to have even dated for a long period of time: she was a single mom (who I believe her son acted as a surrogate husband of sorts for her... .at least emotionally... .where she never raged at me, she did to him... .the poor kid was a whipping post for her and is HUGE mess as a result)... .over the course of 6 years, she worked a full time job, took care of her son and earned a bachelors degree THEN a MBA. I really do believe knowing her lack of time management skills coupled with the demands of work, parenting and school, she really didn't have the time. I wonder if her son and his associated chaos fulfilled that need. She must be REALLY going nuts now that he is gone OR she NOW is with another man. Might be why she will not talk to me.

Sorry, i have to ask... .how do you know this is true? My ex told me she'd only had 2 relationships before me. She also told me she'd only slept with a handful of people. As time passed by and with each recycle, more and more of the reality was unveiled. By the end, the person i was with wasn't even recognisable as the person i'd fallen in love with. Turned out most of what she'd told me was false, she'd actually had numerous relationships, slept with a crazy amount of men and pretty much lived a double life.

Anything could be true, I cannot know 100% for certain... .however, I have zero evidence of any other men than the three... .but I have a ton of evidence to the contrary, not iron clad, but strong enough. She really had little incentive to keep them from me as well. Notwithstanding, she had a true problem child with 100% custody and a full time job AND for several years a school schedule (she earned her bachelors and MBA along the way) really gave her a huge logistical road block to promiscuity. Also notwithstanding was her inability to juggle her schedule.

Of course now, closer to work and with her son out of the house (though, I suspect that his step dad threw him out and he is now back with mom), she might have more ability to date... .dunno.

Obviously not everyone with BPD or Cluster B PDs are the same but, they do share many characteristics. From my experiences they mellow with age and gain more control over their impulses. Thing is though and i'm sorry to say this, if she really does have BPD then, there's no way in hell she's only had 3 relationships by the age of 44!

I heard the exact same things from my exGF. Turned out she'd had an incredible amount of relationships, most of them very short term and in addition to that, slept with a record breaking amount of men! From my experience, ANYTHING goes with them. The stuff i eventually found out about was WAY beyond what i could ever have imagined. She led a double life that no-one knew about. She was like two completely different people.

They will simply tell you whatever you want to hear. They will also tell you these things at first, because its what they desperately want to be true. They attach to somebody and that person becomes their saviour, they get a fresh start, for a while they can be "happy", they can be the person that they so long to be. Its like they see themselves through your eyes for a while. But at some point the mask starts to slip, they can't maintain the illusion, they can't keep the dark side at bay and they then need to find someone else to repeat the cycle with. If they NEED you (not WANT you, NEED you) or can use you in some way and they know they can get back from whatever happened at the end of the relationship then, they will be back at some point to test the water.    

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« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2015, 12:32:10 PM »

I know perfectly well firsthand about intense emotions, dissociation, and self-destructive coping, but not having BPD I really do struggle to understand how they can behave with such heartless cruelty.   I have never in my life done such things to people and I am reasonably certain that I feel things every bit as intensely as my ex.  I don't destroy people because I'm a total mess, though.  I've never done that. 

 I feel you, cosmonaut. I'm a highly sensitive person and have depression and panic disorder... .I understand the intense emotions, unhealthy coping, punitive internal narrative, dissociation, etc. But I go out of my way not to hurt people, sometimes at the expense of my own well-being. It's hard to imagine such a different mindset from our own.

pwBPD are the same way -- it's very hard for them to imagine a different worldview from theirs. Their construction of reality is simple and compelling to them.

We all have certain interpersonal schemata -- knowledge structures we've developed about how we think people will (or should) interact with us, based on our relationship to them. Jeremy Safran (in Emotion, Psychotherapy, and Change) explains that these schemata "initially serve the function of allowing the infant to predict interactions with the attachment figure, thereby maintaining proximity." These primitive schemata are then built upon to form how we view and interact with all people in our life.

Safran breaks these schemata into different levels of generality (abstractness) that are hierarchically embedded within us--

  • Highest level of generality - our internal working model, an abstract representation of interaction with people in general. This level is built on aggregates of the two lower levels.


  • Midlevel - our schemata of interactions with specific types of people. This level is built on aggregates of the lowest level.


  • Lower-level - schemata representing interactions with specific individuals. These schemata contain images of prototypical interpersonal events that happened and expressive motor responses evoked by these events.


pwBPD have extremely rigid interpersonal schemata. They're built on foundations of disordered attachment and impaired social cognition. Their worldview makes sense to them. Attachment hurts; objects of love disappoint; fear of abandonment and engulfment are real and ever-present.

So why do they?  Something truly terrible has gone wrong in their development.  It has to have.  Things did not form correctly and certain critical connections were not made.

BPD is strongly tied to disordered attachment. I highly recommend Peter Fonagy's "Attachment and BPD" if you want to read more about this.

Also, Dolores Mosquera wrote a great article on early experience and BPD--

Children learn to recognize their internal states when they have a mirror, an attuned caregiver, who reflects, explains, and responds to them. If what this mirror shows is discordant with what the child is feeling, or if there is no reflection, the inner world will not evolve toward emotional self-regulation.

In place of a reflected image that corresponds to the child's constitutional (primal) self, the child develops a self-representation that is actually the representation of an Other (often a Punitive Parent). This "alien self" has to be externalized onto a partner or someone else, so that the BPD self can achieve some illusion of coherence.

Also, without a stable sense of self, the child cannot develop appropriate mentalization - the ability to understand the mental state of oneself and others. Peter Fonagy explains that "mentalization acts as a buffer: when actions of others are unexpected, this buffer function allows one to create auxiliary hypotheses about beliefs that forestall automatic conclusions about malicious intentions." pwBPD don't have this buffer. For them, there is only one possible version of reality. As Fonagy says, "an oversimplified construction [of reality] is uncritically accepted. This frequently leads to paranoid constructions of the other's desire state."

I was a lifeguard when I was a young teenager.   I remember being solemnly drilled that a drowning person won't hesitate to climb on top of you in desperation to try and save themselves.  I think that must be how it is with pwBPD.  Somehow, some ancient survival center in the back of the primordial brain is triggered and they simply react without a second thought.  Of course, they aren't actually dying, but I suspect their brains somehow interpret it like they are.

This is a perfect analogy.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2015, 01:21:30 PM »

yes you did... .thank you

Don't want to hijack this thread either... .but did you do the breaking up? Did he attempt contact with you after the fact? Or want to get back together where you refused? I am trying to balance the FB behavior against her other actions in my case where mine b/u and avoided contact as if it were about as painful as a gunshot to the head... .THEN she stalks me on FB? Knowing this, and recalling things she told me the last time we b/u, my gut told me that she wanted to come chase her... .that some of it were a test (she was infuriated when I rejoined a dating site after we had broken up in the past... .probably is now as well). But a call from the cops told me otherwise.

Hi JRT,

No, I didn't do the breaking up. He lost his job on a Wednesday. Didn't tell me. Negotiated his return to the spouse behind my back. Lived with me for six days acting like all was fine. That following Tuesday he moved out and ran back to the spouse while I was at work. Two days before my birthday. We had a huge weekend planned to celebrate.

He ignored all of my messages for about two weeks after dumping me. Then he finally responded with "Perhaps lunch tomorrow? I'm going to be in the area and I have a lot of explaining to do".  He never showed up. Never responded to any more of my messages. That was in October of 2012. I spoke to him briefly in February of 2013. He acted very detached and uninterested in the conversation. Then sent me a message that we were over and to let him give his marriage and life  an "honest try". This after tons of broken promises and lies. Anyway - fast forward to December of same year. He tried to "Friend" me on Facebook. I didn't accept. He blocked me. That was that. Except for the spying.

He knows how much he has hurt me. He has two items that I purchased for him while we were together. He treats these things like gold. Even put pictures of them on Facebook. Yet - I stay blocked and he doesn't reach out. According to what he puts on FB these days - he is happier than he's ever been and quote - "yeah, life is good!".  So there you have it.   
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JRT
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« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2015, 02:13:01 PM »

That story breaks my heart... .looking back on those 6 days, was there anything in hindsight to make you suspect that something was going on? Mine did a couple of suspicious things but I thought that they were related to her moving, not another man... .but who knows... .
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« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2015, 05:42:55 PM »

That story breaks my heart... .looking back on those 6 days, was there anything in hindsight to make you suspect that something was going on? Mine did a couple of suspicious things but I thought that they were related to her moving, not another man... .but who knows... .

JRT,

No - the ex is a really good actor. Nothing other than he went into a kind of catatonic state on the Sunday prior to his leaving. We were driving around in my car (I was behind the wheel) and he was sort of apathetic and quiet for most of the day. Was allowing me to spend money that we didn't have      . Had me kind of "stock up" at the grocery store. In the car - he was sitting with his head thrown back and his mouth kind of hanging open. Said at one point that his brain felt like it was "filled with cotton candy". Something I had forgotten - the day he moved out and ran - he cleaned the house, washed the sheets, and had dinner cooking for me on the stove. He was planning on dumping me over the phone - but I discovered what he was doing and busted him. Yet he wanted me to come home to a clean house and dinner!

Also - it took him MONTHS to get up the nerve to reach out to me via Facebook. He started putting up stuff on his own FB page (before he blocked me) that was intended for me. I didn't have a clue. Started this in July and would do some type of monthly post just for me up until the Friend Request in December.

So here we are - two years later. I'm sure he still thinks of me. Hell - he put up the pics of the "treasured items" just this past December. But he keeps me blocked and continues to post about how awesome his life, marriage and family are. Perhaps he is truly happy now. I've heard the disorder mellows with age. He's approaching 52. I do wish we could reconnect and be distant friends - but I think he hates me.

Yes, it's truly sad. I've known him since I was fifteen years old. I just turned fifty in October. We have quite a history.   
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« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2015, 12:53:45 AM »

Geez... .what an episode! But it sounds like he wasn't doing a very good acting job on those last couple of days and was behaving quite oddly?

Hearing about these things really give me reason to second guess people especially on FB. What seems to be happening on the surface is only the surface... .reality frequently has something else to say.
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« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2015, 04:33:28 AM »

Geez... .what an episode! But it sounds like he wasn't doing a very good acting job on those last couple of days and was behaving quite oddly?

Hearing about these things really give me reason to second guess people especially on FB. What seems to be happening on the surface is only the surface... .reality frequently has something else to say.

JRT,

He was only acting strange on that Sunday. Believe me - he's a good actor. He was getting up and pretending to go to work every day after he was fired. Came home every night at his usual time. The weekend before he left - he came into the house with a huge bouquet of fresh flowers for me!  With him already knowing he was going to be leaving!

You're correct in second-guessing people on FB. Yes, he posts about how awesome his life is. However - I don't believe it for one minute. I believe he does this in order to convince others that his life is perfect. A facade of happiness, normalcy, and "one big, happy family" is very important to him. His spouse depends on him for everything. She is unable to support herself financially without him. She's quite a bit older than him and has no marketable skills. Also - she's not responsible enough to be able to hold down a "regular" job. The only reason she has a job is because of her daughter and family ties. My point to this?  My ex knows she will NEVER abandon him. No chance of it. He controls everything in that household. Also - with her huge extended family - he also sees this as no abandonment. With me - he was always making comments about how I was "losing my desire for him" and that I could do better. His friends also questioned how he had gotten a girl like me (out of his league). So he was dealing with his BPD issues right from the start with our relationship.

Anyway - I think he is faking all of this crap on FB. For his own reasons. Behind the scenes, he's a very unhappy guy. He and the spouse both drink too much. They have a celibate relationship. She is quite a bit older than him and I'm sure he's aware of time catching up to them. She's not looking too healthy these days. His mother is getting up there in years and is a heavy drinker / smoker. Once his two biggest "enablers" are gone (if he outlives them), he will be a lost soul. 
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