Were you presenting a false self?

[fromheeltoheal]

Someone mentioned on a thread that what we presented to our exes was a false self, which they then attached to.  I fought that at first, no! I said to myself, I was real, open and honest with her, she got the real me.  Well was I?  I thought so then and I more or less think so now, but digging some, we try and make good first impressions with people, we try and put our best foot forward, accentuate our strengths, try to be liked, all well and good, but is that a false self?  Is that lying?  I say no, within context.  I was attracted to her, there was sexual tension between us and I was nervous, but that didn't last very long, maybe a week, then we had sex, I got comfortable, and it was off to the races.  False self?  I say not, but how about you guys?

I've been focusing on that now, in fact it's become fun to blurt out my truth early, maybe right after I meet someone, and sometimes it's considered Too Much Information, sometimes it's met with a frown and no reciprocation, and sometimes someone lights up, gets comfortable, and shares what's going on with them, a real connection is born.  Of course it's context-specific, someone says hello how are you we don't want to be blurting out the early trauma we're still processing, it's socially unacceptable, but let's transcend the small talk shall we, and get real?  It's about having a clue about what to say when, but for me it serves double purpose: it weeds out people I don't necessarily want to know better early and it's doing what I want to be doing, being real.

Thoughts?

[cehlers55]

I put somewhat of a false self out there in my last relationship with uBPDwife. She was so different than I. So emotional, whereas I'm the opposite, logical. She was so full of excitement/deep sorrow, where as I'm more even keel. Did I ramp up my excitement when she was excited? Probably. Did she take me down further than i normally go when her air get deflated? Probably. Did I get more outgoing at events that I had to go to with her because she was so outgoing? Yes. I don't think i was fake... .I think I adapted to a situation.

I think I was being fake to myself in thinking "just a little more time" "just a little more time" and things will be fixed.

I'm not too much interested in whether or not I was presenting a false self. I know who I am. My intentions were good no matter how I "adapted" to a situation or a girl who was so extreme.

I get what you're saying about being forthcoming with people. I've become a lot more "loose" with telling people I'm seeing/saw a therapist. And i feel more open about discussing personal matters with people I care about. I've become a little less closed off to people in that matter. Previously I led a VERY private life. Much of my inner thoughts were not shared.

It's really important to weed out people who you don't gel with. However a person does that is irrelevant. Time is short.

[fromheeltoheal]

I put somewhat of a false self out there in my last relationship with uBPDwife. She was so different than I. So emotional, whereas I'm the opposite, logical. She was so full of excitement/deep sorrow, where as I'm more even keel. Did I ramp up my excitement when she was excited? Probably. Did she take me down further than i normally go when her air get deflated? Probably. Did I get more outgoing at events that I had to go to with her because she was so outgoing? Yes. I don't think i was fake... .I think I adapted to a situation.

See, that's what I mean.  A relationship is something that gets created between two people, and having drastically different energies is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact it can be a great thing since it creates a polarity that is necessary for passion.  Of course when it crosses the line into abuse, disrespect and/or codependency then we got a problem, for each of us to decide.  But I agree, moving towards a partner's energy as we create a relationship is not being false, as long as we're also staying true to who we are.

It's really important to weed out people who you don't gel with. However a person does that is irrelevant. Time is short.

Yep, and I'm stepping up efforts lately, some weeding and planting to do.  Thanks for the post man, and take care of you!

[christin5433]

I believe I was true to myself . I just got trashed in a disordered world. Myself was stunted. I could never really finish what I started because I'd have to deal w her and her disorder... .It could come in all forms even just telling all the things shed want me to get done. It wasn't that I resent her for that because that was who she was. But the lashings out over not such heavy topics . I'd like to hold hands or have little connections in our times together. I know me liking that was either very good. Or it was very bad. Good bad good bad Ect never was sure ?

[ADecadeLost]

I'm not sure "False self" is the most accurate term for it, but I think we are all consciously or subconsciously selective with regards to the stories we share, or parts of our personality we highlight, when trying to impress a new person.  It's human nature.  Looking back I can say I've done it at the beginning of plenty of potential relationships, not just with my dBPD ex-wife.

As for blurting things out, I've sort of developed (or perhaps rediscovered) that habit as well in recent months.  Now it's not so much that I go out of my way to share my sob story of a failed marriage, but I find that I am no longer hesitant to share my opinion on pretty much anything.  For good or bad, it's gotten to the point where I am known for it amongst recent acquaintances.  I'm certainly enjoying it, and you're right.  It unfiltered honesty is a great tool for weeding out people early on.

[Perfidy]

What is false self? What is true self? We're always ourselves. Are we acting? Yes. We act. We're alive and that means action. Were we honest? Don't we need to be honest with ourselves before we can be honest with anyone else? Shouldn't we know ourselves the way we really are before we can determine which of our many selfs is currently acting? Which is the true self? Would we know ourself if we met us? Lol!

The contrast between disorder and non is stark to me now. People that call themselves my friends and put me down and entitle themselves to everything that I have are sick. I see the difference in me. I don't entitle myself to anything that isn't mine. I respect other people. I'm considerate and courteous and I feel the radiance of life within me and see the effect that it has on everyone around me. Positive and up-lifting. This is my self as I really am. Those that can't experience themselves this way feel that they need something outside of themselves and they see it in me and try to take it. They can't even grasp that if I could make them see themselves as they really are, I would. So I just be as nice as I can to them and understand that they are sleeping.

.

[christin5433]

What is false self? What is true self? We're always ourselves. Are we acting? Yes. We act. We're alive and that means action. Were we honest? Don't we need to be honest with ourselves before we can be honest with anyone else? Shouldn't we know ourselves the way we really are before we can determine which of our many selfs is currently acting? Which is the true self? Would we know ourself if we met us? Lol!

The contrast between disorder and non is stark to me now. People that call themselves my friends and put me down and entitle themselves to everything that I have are sick. I see the difference in me. I don't entitle myself to anything that isn't mine. I respect other people. I'm considerate and courteous and I feel the radiance of life within me and see the effect that it has on everyone around me. Positive and up-lifting. This is my self as I really am. Those that can't experience themselves this way feel that they need something outside of themselves and they see it in me and try to take it. They can't even grasp that if I could make them see themselves as they really are, I would. So I just be as nice as I can to them and understand that they are sleeping.

.

I think someone shared when you get together w someone we are true selves then we build with our new partner. We add to what will create a kind loving respectful r/s. My ex hated the word respect that's when I knew her BPD was un raveling . I mean how un logical to yell at me what's my big thing about wanting RESPECT? I knew I was dealing w half a deck I mean how could I ignore that red flag. Respect is part of the equation to a r/s. I remember telling my small self because towards the end I was small not true self. I just said ok. Your right ... ., I questioned If she was right? I was a walking doubt in my head. That is false self.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Perf!

Don't we need to be honest with ourselves before we can be honest with anyone else?

Yes, and that's the key.  If we're lying to ourselves about who we are, and expect everyone else to buy the lie, we're presenting a false self.  There's a difference between accentuating our strengths when we meet someone, that's acting, but we know we're acting, and lying to ourselves so well that we no longer realize we're acting.  :)oesn't work.  I got lost in that for not too long with her, but I caught myself, and once I decided to once again live my truth, it fell apart.  She wanted the fantasy, the lie, so did I in the beginning probably, but thank god I found some grounding.  Now I feel more grateful to have that grounding and make it more important.

[fromheeltoheal]

I mean how un logical to yell at me what's my big thing about wanting RESPECT?

Hey christin you gave me a flashback: I was arguing with my ex once, don't remember about what, but she said "how can you say that?" and I said "well, I'm just using logic." and she said "LOGIC! How I feel is far more important than LOGIC!"  That was the beginning of my understanding that feelings are facts to borderlines.

[HappyNihilist]

Yes, most of us were presenting false selves to our pwBPD. No, that doesn't mean we were somehow "fake" or not true to ourselves. In fact, our false self is very much a part of who we are.

False selves are defense mechanisms, complex coping strategies. For people with personality disorders, these false selves are pathological. Non-PD people have false selves, too, but they only emerge in specific situations, unique to the person.

There are certain types of "false selves" that are prone to being activated by relationships with borderlines-- including the Rescuer, the White Knight, the Understanding-Seeker, and the Narcissistic. This is the false self that the borderline attaches to, mirrors, and eventually peels away.

A lot of people find that their BPD relationships reopened family of origin (FOO) wounds. This is one reason why the extreme devaluation and end of the relationship is so very devastating, because we've been stripped of our most primal coping mechanisms. See, our false selves are what we constructed to deal with our FOO -- to protect the vulnerable child inside from being hurt and feeling worthless, unlovable, lonely, not good enough. And when, over the course of a BPD relationship, we find that our false selves no longer work, we are left open and vulnerable... .knights with no armor and no weapons.

Unlike with the borderline, the non-borderline's false self is tied to an inner self. We may be stripped and wounded, but we are still whole. And now, with what we've learned, we can rebuild... .keeping what works and is healthy, casting aside what isn't.

[drummerboy]

I don't know about a false self but I think we all present our best self at the start of a r/s and I also think we do our own mirroring although to a lesser extent than a pwBPD. It's only natural to get interested in the things a new love interest is into.

[Pingo]

A lot of people find that their BPD relationships reopened family of origin (FOO) wounds. This is one reason why the extreme devaluation and end of the relationship is so very devastating, because we've been stripped of our most primal coping mechanisms. See, our false selves are what we constructed to deal with our FOO -- to protect the vulnerable child inside from being hurt and feeling worthless, unlovable, lonely, not good enough. And when, over the course of a BPD relationship, we find that our false selves no longer work, we are left open and vulnerable... .knights with no armor and no weapons.

This is what I've learned since my BU ^^.  I had no idea how many defence mechanisms I had in place.  The BU ripped them away and exposed my raw, core wounds.  I was left wondering who the heck I was. 

The false self I presented to my ex and to the world was one who was confidant, independent, not needing help from anyone, the giver, rescuer, understanding, forgiving, overly empathic... .to a fault.  I'm not saying I'm not really those things at times but they were used to protect my real feelings of inadequacy and unworthiness.  I had so much of my pain and history stuffed down, trying desperately to feel normal.

[Copperfox]

I would echo everything HappyNihilist said.  When it comes to our "self", false does not necessarily equate to fake.

We all have multiple underlying selves, different facets of our character and experiences.  But they are factious, fragmented ... .we can't go around presenting all of our competing concerns, conflicting feelings, fears, etc. to everyone on a daily basis.  The false self (or selves) we create subsumes all those things, so we can present a relatively stable personality to those around us, and interact with other people in a consistent manner.

The difference between a person with a personality disorder, and a person without, is that for the latter, the false self is tied to a real sense of self underneath. It is grounded, in a sense, whereas with PD it flutters about untethered, like a ship without a mooring.  James Masterson's book "The Search for the Real Self" is a great read on this subject.

[christin5433]

I mean how un logical to yell at me what's my big thing about wanting RESPECT?

Hey christin you gave me a flashback: I was arguing with my ex once, don't remember about what, but she said "how can you say that?" and I said "well, I'm just using logic." and she said "LOGIC! How I feel is far more important than LOGIC!"  That was the beginning of my understanding that feelings are facts to borderlines.

I get it. I guess by the time the end came and we challenge them with reality and integrity it's a mess. I hate this disorder it made me a mess now. Hurting confused low self esteem. I don't have compartments to just put my bad behavior in I actually have to feel my pain. So do most of us here. It's betrayal but to them it's their disorder

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, most of us were presenting false selves to our pwBPD. No, that doesn't mean we were somehow "fake" or not true to ourselves. In fact, our false self is very much a part of who we are.

False selves are defense mechanisms, complex coping strategies. For people with personality disorders, these false selves are pathological. Non-PD people have false selves, too, but they only emerge in specific situations, unique to the person.

There are certain types of "false selves" that are prone to being activated by relationships with borderlines-- including the Rescuer, the White Knight, the Understanding-Seeker, and the Narcissistic. This is the false self that the borderline attaches to, mirrors, and eventually peels away.

A lot of people find that their BPD relationships reopened family of origin (FOO) wounds. This is one reason why the extreme devaluation and end of the relationship is so very devastating, because we've been stripped of our most primal coping mechanisms. See, our false selves are what we constructed to deal with our FOO -- to protect the vulnerable child inside from being hurt and feeling worthless, unlovable, lonely, not good enough. And when, over the course of a BPD relationship, we find that our false selves no longer work, we are left open and vulnerable... .knights with no armor and no weapons.

Unlike with the borderline, the non-borderline's false self is tied to an inner self. We may be stripped and wounded, but we are still whole. And now, with what we've learned, we can rebuild... .keeping what works and is healthy, casting aside what isn't.

Thanks Happy, you've gone deeper into schemas than I have and your description is helpful.  To me that vulnerable child is our real self, and we are either used to being and expressing that in a supportive environment or we're not, and expressing it or not is always a choice; if we choose not to we present a false self instead.  My favorite go-to false self is narcissistic, with some focus on understanding thrown in; an inner feeling of inferiority compensated for with an external expression of superiority.  I've learned recently that that is also common among people with an INTJ personality type, which fits me to a T.

Narcissism gets a bad rap, but really, anyone with an ego is narcissistic, meaning we have some love for ourselves, a healthy thing, what Freud called primary narcissism.  When we give some of that self love away to love another, we diminish the self love, but we get it back when someone else loves us back, so it works in a symbiotic way among us social animals.  The "issue" I've repeated time and again is picking the wrong person, someone who couldn't or wouldn't return that love, or just someone incompatible, yet we kept trying anyway, nobody happy.  That culminated with my borderline ex, extremely painful, which led me here and these new understandings.  Invaluable.

All these frames.  Ask 10 people how people 'are' and we'll get 10 different answers.  I'm opting for simple: there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring us up and the ones who bring us down, and the key to a happy life is to populate it with people who bring us up and remove the ones who bring us down.  When we do that it becomes more and more comfortable, and freeing, to express our true self full time, no need for defense mechanisms.  I'm runnin' with that... .

[fromheeltoheal]

I mean how un logical to yell at me what's my big thing about wanting RESPECT?

Hey christin you gave me a flashback: I was arguing with my ex once, don't remember about what, but she said "how can you say that?" and I said "well, I'm just using logic." and she said "LOGIC! How I feel is far more important than LOGIC!"  That was the beginning of my understanding that feelings are facts to borderlines.

I get it. I guess by the time the end came and we challenge them with reality and integrity it's a mess. I hate this disorder it made me a mess now. Hurting confused low self esteem. I don't have compartments to just put my bad behavior in I actually have to feel my pain. So do most of us here. It's betrayal but to them it's their disorder

Yes, and feeling the pain is the path to growth; the only way out is through, and once we emerge from it we're wiser and know ourselves better.  Being confused means we're about to learn something.  Teachers come well-disguised sometimes, and the lessons we get as a result of these relationships end up being the gift.

[Pingo]

To me that vulnerable child is our real self, and we are either used to being and expressing that in a supportive environment or we're not, and expressing it or not is always a choice; if we choose not to we present a false self instead.

I would argue that it is a choice only when we become aware we are doing this.  I had no idea how I was using these defense mechanisms and closing off my vulnerable child.  I was deeply in denial!

I'm opting for simple: there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring us up and the ones who bring us down, and the key to a happy life is to populate it with people who bring us up and remove the ones who bring us down.  When we do that it becomes more and more comfortable, and freeing, to express our true self full time, no need for defense mechanisms.  I'm runnin' with that... .

This is it!  Me too!

[fromheeltoheal]

To me that vulnerable child is our real self, and we are either used to being and expressing that in a supportive environment or we're not, and expressing it or not is always a choice; if we choose not to we present a false self instead.

I would argue that it is a choice only when we become aware we are doing this.  I had no idea how I was using these defense mechanisms and closing off my vulnerable child.  I was deeply in denial!

Yes, although it could still be a choice, either a subconscious or conscious one.  One gift of a relationship with a borderline is the pain inspires us to dig, and what was once subconscious becomes conscious, and conscious choices we can control and use.

I'm opting for simple: there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring us up and the ones who bring us down, and the key to a happy life is to populate it with people who bring us up and remove the ones who bring us down.  When we do that it becomes more and more comfortable, and freeing, to express our true self full time, no need for defense mechanisms.  I'm runnin' with that... .

This is it!  Me too!

WooHoo!  Love us some simple!

[Fluff]

I presented a false self, an image of a white knight, someone strong, capable, caring, experienced and wise who could handle anything. It's hard for me to see this as a false self, as I really believed in it. And there's some truth to it, but my own image of myself was exaggerated. Because I really believed this was true about me, I projected it very naturally and convincing, without having to try to convince someone.

My BPDex, the romance before that and my current playmate all called me an angel. My current playmate has re-occurring dreams where I'm an actual angel saving her. Hahaha, it's weird, I like it a bit, but I don't understand where they get that from.

Edit: I realize I'm contradicting myself. First I said "I really believed in it" and then "I don't understand where they get that from". Truth is, in secret this is part of my self image but I don't understand how they can see it.

[fromheeltoheal]

My ex called me an angel too, and threw in ":)ude, your halo's crooked", cuz that's the kinda girl she was, horns protruding.

[myself]

When I met my now-ex, I had come through a divorce, been in therapy, and was pretty aware of presenting my 'real self' to anyone I interacted with. The problem was I was shown a false self by her, which I didn't figure out until the intimacy we were experiencing was overly triggering for her. Even then it took awhile for the facts to be seen more than the fantasy, and to accept them. By that time I was in love with her, complicating how I processed it. When I found my 'real self' bending too much to deal with her multiple 'false selves', I found I couldn't go down that road of becoming a 'false self', myself. Despite struggling to find other ways to help our relationship (and the woman I cared for), I eventually had to bow out and not repeat the recycling patterns anymore. In large part due to her being 'false' with me. Also, her projections tried to turn me into someone I wasn't. No thanks. Whichever self she actually is, she lost someone who was real.

[Blimblam]

So basically a pwBPD secures an attachment. Through validating the potential attachment.  So they will become what we desire them to become. What we desire the pwBPD to become is a part of the fantasy of how we would like to see ourselves. It's like we play out a fantasy and the pwBPD objectifies themself to fill the space we have created in our fantasy and this gives the pwBPD a form to fill and we validate their existance as the role we have given them in our fantasy.  But behind this mirror of how we would like to see ourselves is our own pain and the pain of the actual person the pwBPD.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yep, we made a mistake, or we were deceived, take your pick; that amazing borderline we thought we fell in love with?  That was actually ourselves we were falling in love with.  How cool is that?

[Blimblam]

So the pwBPDs mirroring and validation and idealization creates a reflection that covers our own insecurities and pain. The pwBPD presents themselves often as the victim so it is a natural fit for them to asume the space where our own pain would be in our psyche. The pwBPD becomes a substitute for our own vulnerable child this part of ourself that is possibly too painful to access becomes accessible through identifying this part of ourself through the pwBPD.

[Blimblam]

Yep, we made a mistake, or we were deceived, take your pick; that amazing borderline we thought we fell in love with?  That was actually ourselves we were falling in love with.  How cool is that?

Well it depends how we related to this part of ourself, the vulnerable child.  It is more like we decieved ourselves.  This role for the "other" is a deception of our own creation to cover our own inner shame which behind is the fragmented parts of our psyche that we felt through the pwBPD.

[myself]

That was actually ourselves we were falling in love with.  How cool is that?

It also really f*#ing sucks. Already had a pretty good relationship with myself.

Would have liked a long lasting one with someone who had a good one with herself, too.

I was a frog in the (increasingly boiling) water she 'offered'. The disorder the flame.

[Blimblam]

So the pwBPDs mirroring and validation and idealization creates a reflection that covers our own insecurities and pain. The pwBPD presents themselves often as the victim so it is a natural fit for them to asume the space where our own pain would be in our psyche. The pwBPD becomes a substitute for our own vulnerable child this part of ourself that is possibly too painful to access becomes accessible through identifying this part of ourself through the pwBPD.

I wanted to add to this.  So we fell in love with the image of ourself where the pain we are in ourself belongs to the pwBPD while the pwBPD validates however it is we behaved or wanted to see our self as.  The pwBPD provided us narcisistic supply to provide a mirror to hide our pain so we fell in love with the narcisistic image of our idealized self. 

[fromheeltoheal]

Too deep for me guys.  She saw something she really liked, she tried to take it as her own, I bought into it, then I discovered she lied, and I didn't like who she really was, but I did like the me she showed me.  I'll take that external validation, as I add a clue so I don't leap so easily next time.

[Mike-X]

So we fell in love with the image of ourself where the pain we are in ourself belongs to the pwBPD while the pwBPD validates however it is we behaved or wanted to see our self as.  The pwBPD provided us narcisistic supply to provide a mirror to hide our pain so we fell in love with the narcisistic image of our idealized self. 

Wow! Very nice.  Maybe that is in part why it hurt so much when the turmoil started and when the relationship finally ended. The significant other began withdrawing the narcissistic supply. We began losing our idealized selves and were re-exposed to our wounds from our pasts, our pain... .The desperate attempts to win back the significant other were really desperate attempts to get back our narcissistic supply, our drug to hide our own pain from our pasts.

[HappyNihilist]

So the pwBPDs mirroring and validation and idealization creates a reflection that covers our own insecurities and pain. The pwBPD presents themselves often as the victim so it is a natural fit for them to asume the space where our own pain would be in our psyche. The pwBPD becomes a substitute for our own vulnerable child this part of ourself that is possibly too painful to access becomes accessible through identifying this part of ourself through the pwBPD.

I wanted to add to this.  So we fell in love with the image of ourself where the pain we are in ourself belongs to the pwBPD while the pwBPD validates however it is we behaved or wanted to see our self as.  The pwBPD provided us narcisistic supply to provide a mirror to hide our pain so we fell in love with the narcisistic image of our idealized self. 

These are very good points, Blimblam.

The borderline partner mirrors this false self, but like you said, they can only mirror what they see, what we present. This does result in an idealized reflection... .and a shallow one. The borderline's mirror image is without the foundation of our core self -- the very self that created these defense mechanisms, for very real reasons -- and incapable of growth or change.

We project our own vulnerable child needs and expectations onto our borderline partner - made easy because, as you said, the borderline often presents as a victim. We use our "false self" to try to save, love, understand, etc., that vulnerable child we see within the pwBPD.

What we are giving our borderline partner is what our own vulnerable child needs.