Leaving, should I tell him that he might have BPD and should get help?

[apple2]

Dear all,

after 6 months exhausted journey and 2 break-ups initiated by my BP partner, I went to a psychologist to have my conversation there today. The world is crazy. The BP should be the person who needs help, at the end I as Non-BP talked with professionals. I am ok, just with a broken heart. I tried to hear what the professional psychologist said in my case.

I won't write every details of my story. It is a story the same as thousands other stories with ups and downs. When he was in bad mood, he uses verbal abuse to find relief. I have more tolerance, because I am quite sure that the behavior is very BPD, therefore, I always forgive him. Even he did not say sorry. But still the words and behaviors hit every human being's limits and are very difficult for me to digesst and not take personally.

I don't know whether he knows  that he has some problem. Because sometimes he said to me that he is lack of empathy. Or the demon took over his mind, or he can not control himself. He has very high IQ; but I don't think he has very high EQ to point out his own problem. I don't know.

The thing is, I tried to talk with him a little bit. During the bad mood period, he said the reason is in his childhood. He was treated badly by girls, therefore, he wants to take revenge. He finished the old relationships more or less in the same way. In my case, he said he used me and manipulated me without having Feeling for me. (But I don't believe it, because he was a very gentle person when he was in good mood)

Now he initiated the 2. round break-up with me. Somehow, I think he will still be back sooner or later. But, I am leaving. I can't continue it because I can't overcome the devil. And my heart is bleeding. I love him a lot and I was ready for helping him go through his bad moments. I was ready to bring him into the circle of my friends, to make him more relaxed and sociable. But it is difficult for me to hear things such as I don't love you, I used you for sex... .when he is at outburst... .

Question: before leaving, should I write him something to suggest that his unusual behavior would lead to BPD (although he is probably, but I don't want to hurt him) And the taking revenge theory is totally wrong?

On the other Hand, change is only from inside. When he does not want to change, whatever I write, does not make sense. Maybe should I wait until one day, he comes back to me and tell him?

Anyway, I am in love with him. Whether I can be with him or not, I hope he can have a happy life, not like right now.

What would you suggest?

[Tim300]

Sorry that you are going through this.  I would not write him yet.  You can always write him at a later time if need be.  Seems like he is very messed up and unfortunately there's nothing you can do to help him.  Explaining that the revenge thing is wrong won't help anything.  In my experience, pwBPD can be surprisingly dangerous.  I would not do anything to rock the boat.  Maybe at a much later time tensions will have cooled somewhat and if you see him in person you can somehow mention the concept of BPD. 

[Maternus]

In my case, he said he used me and manipulated me without having Feeling for me. (But I don't believe it, because he was a very gentle person when he was in good mood)

When he has BPD or another Cluster-B-Disorder the real him is the person without empathy, the abuser, the manipulator. The gentle person is just a mask, it's a role he plays, to keep you attached. Look at your own words: You wrote that he admits to be manipulative. What is manipulation? Manipulation is to make you believe that he is a gentle person.  

[apple2]

In my case, he said he used me and manipulated me without having Feeling for me. (But I don't believe it, because he was a very gentle person when he was in good mood)

When he has BPD or another Cluster-B-Disorder the real him is the person without empathy, the abuser, the manipulator. The gentle person is just a mask, it's a role he plays, to keep you attached. Look at your own words: You wrote that he admits to be manipulative. What is manipulation? Manipulation is to make you believe that he is a gentle person.  

Yes, that is the incredible part of my story.

Generally, he is a shy person. In our relationship, he apeeared to be vulnerable, considerate and really got hurted according to the past. In every day life, because of some tiny things for non-bps, he can get hurt and really looked sad.

Therefore, I soon felt that I should give him more care and love. I really did not expect that he even admits everything. He knows everything somehow. He knows the reason is in his childhood, he knows he is crazy in his emotional world, but he does not want to change. I cannot understand why. I can  also not understand why someone uses 6 months to control me without having Feeling for me. Everyone has limited time and we can do something more meaningful... .

I don't want him to be a mentally sick person some day. Since sometimes, his mimic or emepty eyes really let me feel worried for him

[apple2]

Sorry that you are going through this.  I would not write him yet.  You can always write him at a later time if need be.  Seems like he is very messed up and unfortunately there's nothing you can do to help him.  Explaining that the revenge thing is wrong won't help anything.  In my experience, pwBPD can be surprisingly dangerous.  I would not do anything to rock the boat.  Maybe at a much later time tensions will have cooled somewhat and if you see him in person you can somehow mention the concept of BPD.  

Thanks for your suggestion. I somehow also have fear, because I don't know which Kind of disorder he exactly has. I think you are right. It may not bring anything. I also don't want that he uses the disorder as an excuse, just as right now, he uses his childhood as an excuse to do something not proper... .

[Maternus]

Generally, he is a shy person. In our relationship, he apeeared to be vulnerable, considerate and really got hurted according to the past. In every day life, because of some tiny things for non-bps, he can get hurt and really looked sad.

Under the surface they are all needy, suffering children. They are not monsters. They don't want to hurt us. You won't feel badly wounded if a 4 year old boy rages at you because he doesn't gets what he wants. But it hurts you, when you think you are in an adult relationship with someone and he behaves like a toddler. They are not prepared to be in a mature relationship and we are not prepared to be in a relationship with an adult person who is emotionally a toddler. You wrote that your ex had a very high IQ - my uBPDex also was very intelligent. It's irritating, to be in a relationship with someone, who is so intelligent but emotionally retarded. 

[apple2]

Generally, he is a shy person. In our relationship, he apeeared to be vulnerable, considerate and really got hurted according to the past. In every day life, because of some tiny things for non-bps, he can get hurt and really looked sad.

Under the surface they are all needy, suffering children. They are not monsters. They don't want to hurt us. You won't feel badly wounded if a 4 year old boy rages at you because he doesn't gets what he wants. But it hurts you, when you think you are in an adult relationship with someone and he behaves like a toddler. They are not prepared to be in a mature relationship and we are not prepared to be in a relationship with an adult person who is emotionally a toddler. You wrote that your ex had a very high IQ - my uBPDex also was very intelligent. It's irritating, to be in a relationship with someone, who is so intelligent but emotionally retarded.  

Dear Maternus,

thanks for sharing the experience with me. I am sorry you had to undergo more or less the similar experience as mine.

The explanation of mine is he uses so many enery at work, therefore, in the emotional world, he is crazy.

I regarded him as a child, a toddler, therefore, I always persuaded myself not to take his words personally and to forgive and forget. But I am defeated by his manipulation theory. I thought such kind of story exists only in movies. Although I tend to believe the manipulation is only his word at his bad moments, still, the manipulation concept drives me depressed.

Especially after his 2. impulsive break-up and one-month NC, I told him that I needed a talk. I thought he may not want to meet me. But he accepted it at once. The beginning in a coffeeshop was good. Since more people were there, he took me to his apartment to talk about it further. Then he had sex with me, saying that he loves me  (although at that time there was no need to seduce me to say yes, we had already kissed each other). After it, I wanted to continue the conversation, then I got the manipulation shock. He said that why is so hard to get rid of you. (but during our relationship, he was the active person. Only one or two SMS during the 6 months were initiated by me)

And at the time we left each other on that day, he kissed me. What kind of getting rid of is that?

I can't stay in this story, otherwise I would be crazy... . 

[raisins3142]

Mine claimed to still have PTSD from being raped by her boyfriend at 18, and that was 14 years ago.  And that is why she is nuts now.

I never bought it.

I told her after I left that she has borderline personality traits and should seek help.  I also said a bunch of hurtful things because she wrecked me with 1,000 paper cuts during the relationship, so as I walked away I decided to show her the paper cuts and give her one proverbial kick to the gut.

I now regret telling her she likely has BPD.  The reasons are: 1. that it likely did no good because her addressing something big like that through years of therapy and actual self improvement and facing painful things is NOT likely to happen, so it likely did no good, 2. it probably just made her mad that I thought I could diagnose her and she is probably using it as ammo against me, and 3. if she ever hurts herself, I'll now partially blame myself because I'll think maybe she read about BPD and its poor prognosis caused her to spin out hard.

So, I would NOT bother unless you really think it will accomplish something.

Ask yourself "why do I want to do this, really?"

PS My ex talked about how much therapy helped her and she accepted her diagnosis of PTSD.  Problem is, her therapist was a graduate student seeking a masters at a 3rd rate public school and they had to counsel people as part of clinicals.  So, that 23 year old grad students diagnosis is worth about as much as that therapy likely actually helped my uBPDexgf to truly address her issues.

[Maternus]

And at the time we left each other on that day, he kissed me. What kind of getting rid of is that?

I can't stay in this story, otherwise I would be crazy... . 

There is no logic in their behaviour a nonPD can understand. That's why the are labelled as disordered personalities. If you are a child of a dysfunctional, disordered family - like me - there is a logic: "It's always your fault."  When you never experienced disordered behaviour before, it must be irritating and crazy making.

[HappyNihilist]

Hi there, apple. I'm sorry about your stormy relationship and breakup. Relationships with pwBPD are very intense, and the end is often devastating.   Rest assured that it gets better!

Question: before leaving, should I write him something to suggest that his unusual behavior would lead to BPD (although he is probably, but I don't want to hurt him) And the taking revenge theory is totally wrong?

This is, of course, a choice only you can make. But I personally wouldn't advise telling him you think he has BPD or BPD traits. It rarely goes over well.

On the other Hand, change is only from inside. When he does not want to change, whatever I write, does not make sense.

This is very true. 

Anyway, I am in love with him. Whether I can be with him or not, I hope he can have a happy life, not like right now.

What would you suggest?

You care a lot about him and want him to be happy -- even though he has hurt you deeply. That's very compassionate and admirable.

The best thing you can do - for everyone - is to focus on and take care of yourself first. Like you said, he has to recognize and seek help for his own issues. He has to want to change; you have no control over that.

Detaching with empathy, and taking care of yourself, are truly the best courses of action right now.  You've been deeply wounded; take time to yourself to heal. 

[Gonzalo]

When I left, one of our final conversations involved me telling her that she had a major issue, and if she'd acknowledge it and get help working on it I'd stand by her during that. It didn't work.

[apple2]

Mine claimed to still have PTSD from being raped by her boyfriend at 18, and that was 14 years ago.  And that is why she is nuts now.

I never bought it.

I told her after I left that she has borderline personality traits and should seek help.  I also said a bunch of hurtful things because she wrecked me with 1,000 paper cuts during the relationship, so as I walked away I decided to show her the paper cuts and give her one proverbial kick to the gut.

I now regret telling her she likely has BPD.  The reasons are: 1. that it likely did no good because her addressing something big like that through years of therapy and actual self improvement and facing painful things is NOT likely to happen, so it likely did no good, 2. it probably just made her mad that I thought I could diagnose her and she is probably using it as ammo against me, and 3. if she ever hurts herself, I'll now partially blame myself because I'll think maybe she read about BPD and its poor prognosis caused her to spin out hard.

So, I would NOT bother unless you really think it will accomplish something.

Ask yourself "why do I want to do this, really?"

PS My ex talked about how much therapy helped her and she accepted her diagnosis of PTSD.  Problem is, her therapist was a graduate student seeking a masters at a 3rd rate public school and they had to counsel people as part of clinicals.  So, that 23 year old grad students diagnosis is worth about as much as that therapy likely actually helped my uBPDexgf to truly address her issues.

Thanks for sharing the experience with me.

I asked myself why. Because I hope he can change, changing into the "kind" person I knew. changing into the person whom at least I want to have a friendship with. 

I don't know whether I love him, or I feel I SHOULD love him, since he was a hurting child in our relationship. He appeared to share everything with me (even he himself had some biological problem during sex in the past) It aroused my sympathy. I felt the kind of reponsibility to drag him out of his black hole.

Actually it is rather a hopeless situation... .You are right. This person does not want to change. I'll just let it be.

[apple2]

When I left, one of our final conversations involved me telling her that she had a major issue, and if she'd acknowledge it and get help working on it I'd stand by her during that. It didn't work.

I also thought I would be with him and support him, if he is ready for some change in his thinking and behavior. My psychologist also told me that if he wanted to change, he has already had so many opportnities. It is obvious that he does not want to do it.

[apple2]

Hi there, apple. I'm sorry about your stormy relationship and breakup. Relationships with pwBPD are very intense, and the end is often devastating.   Rest assured that it gets better!

Question: before leaving, should I write him something to suggest that his unusual behavior would lead to BPD (although he is probably, but I don't want to hurt him) And the taking revenge theory is totally wrong?

This is, of course, a choice only you can make. But I personally wouldn't advise telling him you think he has BPD or BPD traits. It rarely goes over well.

Hey!

Thanks a lot for your advice. It is useful to hear all of your opinion and advice. It helps me to make a clear decision.

I would not write him anything. It is no use, if he does not want to face his own problem. And anyway it is his life. he needs to choose his own path and tast his own destiny.

I'll heal myself, and restore courage for love again:)

On the other Hand, change is only from inside. When he does not want to change, whatever I write, does not make sense.

This is very true. 

Anyway, I am in love with him. Whether I can be with him or not, I hope he can have a happy life, not like right now.

What would you suggest?

You care a lot about him and want him to be happy -- even though he has hurt you deeply. That's very compassionate and admirable.

The best thing you can do - for everyone - is to focus on and take care of yourself first. Like you said, he has to recognize and seek help for his own issues. He has to want to change; you have no control over that.

Detaching with empathy, and taking care of yourself, are truly the best courses of action right now.  You've been deeply wounded; take time to yourself to heal. 

[Gonzalo]

I also thought I would be with him and support him, if he is ready for some change in his thinking and behavior. My psychologist also told me that if he wanted to change, he has already had so many opportnities. It is obvious that he does not want to do it.

I didn't really expect her to believe that she has a problem, since she would completely justify or forget really bad behavior; for example in her head we were equally at fault for shouting because I wasn't able to talk her down and sometimes started shouting back. For me, making the final offer both made sure that, if she was shocked and needed a little push that she got it, and drove home to me that I couldn't fix things without her cooperation, which I wasn't going to get. I didn't actually say BPD at the time because I felt that naming a condition would provide an easy sidetrack onto arguing about the diagnosis.

To give more solid advice instead of just venting: I think that the answer to 'should I tell him' is the same as the answer to 'do you think telling him will help YOU'. I didn't really expect it to work, it just let me tell myself that I had done everything I could and helped me detach from the relationship. I also think that, if you do try to talk to him, naming the condition just muddies the water and provides a framework for the distracting side debate that they love so much.

[apple2]

Hi there, apple. I'm sorry about your stormy relationship and breakup. Relationships with pwBPD are very intense, and the end is often devastating.   Rest assured that it gets better!

Question: before leaving, should I write him something to suggest that his unusual behavior would lead to BPD (although he is probably, but I don't want to hurt him) And the taking revenge theory is totally wrong?

This is, of course, a choice only you can make. But I personally wouldn't advise telling him you think he has BPD or BPD traits. It rarely goes over well.

On the other Hand, change is only from inside. When he does not want to change, whatever I write, does not make sense.

This is very true. 

Anyway, I am in love with him. Whether I can be with him or not, I hope he can have a happy life, not like right now.

What would you suggest?

You care a lot about him and want him to be happy -- even though he has hurt you deeply. That's very compassionate and admirable.

The best thing you can do - for everyone - is to focus on and take care of yourself first. Like you said, he has to recognize and seek help for his own issues. He has to want to change; you have no control over that.

Detaching with empathy, and taking care of yourself, are truly the best courses of action right now.  You've been deeply wounded; take time to yourself to heal. 

Hey! There!

Thanks a lot for your advice. It is useful to hear all of your opinion and advice. It helps me to make a clear decision.

I would not write him anything. It is no use, if he does not want to face his own problem. And anyway it is his life. he needs to choose his own path and tast his own destiny.

I'll heal myself, and restore courage for love again:)

[apple2]

I also thought I would be with him and support him, if he is ready for some change in his thinking and behavior. My psychologist also told me that if he wanted to change, he has already had so many opportnities. It is obvious that he does not want to do it.

I didn't really expect her to believe that she has a problem, since she would completely justify or forget really bad behavior; for example in her head we were equally at fault for shouting because I wasn't able to talk her down and sometimes started shouting back. For me, making the final offer both made sure that, if she was shocked and needed a little push that she got it, and drove home to me that I couldn't fix things without her cooperation, which I wasn't going to get. I didn't actually say BPD at the time because I felt that naming a condition would provide an easy sidetrack onto arguing about the diagnosis.

To give more solid advice instead of just venting: I think that the answer to 'should I tell him' is the same as the answer to 'do you think telling him will help YOU'. I didn't really expect it to work, it just let me tell myself that I had done everything I could and helped me detach from the relationship. I also think that, if you do try to talk to him, naming the condition just muddies the water and provides a framework for the distracting side debate that they love so much.

Hey,

I decided not to have a talk with him about it or write him anything.

I could actually not have a discussion with him about the relationship. Because he has no logic there and is self-contradictory. During his 1. break-up with me, he said that he has no feelings. I asked him why he initiates almost all the SMS, dates and calls. He just answered, because he had nothing else to do. Some days later, he came back to me. I asked what he meant by no feelings and so on. He answered, he can't remember what he said. Or he just exaggerated. Or he thought so, but now he sees it differently.

I feel the discussion with mine ex does not make any sense. The conversation with him just drives me crazy.

[Leaving]

No, you should not tell him that he might have BPD.  First of all, you're not a doctor or therapist and even if were diagnosed with BPD, you should not remind him that he's got it and is ill.  Something sounds off though.  I mean, he says he lacks empathy and makes excuses for it which indicates that he is either patronizing you with an excuse in an effort to manipulate sympathy from you. Most BPDs have little to no insight into themselves and don't believe that anything is wrong with them.

I know how you feel.  I was battling evil for 18 years before I decided to leave.  Count your blessings and know that you're doing what is right for YOU regardless of the reasons.  The bottom line is that you're not happy in the relationship.  Take care of yourself and focus on your own therapy and getting strong.  For some reason you love him even though he made you unhappy.  You might be codependent and feel the need to engage in relationships that you need to control? 


The safest and most mature thing to do is to take accountability for being dissatisfied with the relationship and work from that point. say things like, ' I'm unhappy and I think it's best if I leave'.  Don't shift blame to him.   Don't say things like, " if you were not ... .I'd be happy.  If you could be... .I would be happy".  If you tell him how to behave, how he should have behaved, then he may mimic exactly what he knows you want him to do but, that's not indicative of good character, it's just him manipulating you.  That's why it's so important for you NOT to control him by telling him how to behave. Obviously, he knows you're unhappy and he's not been able to or willing to change so, it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

[apple2]

No, you should not tell him that he might have BPD.  First of all, you're not a doctor or therapist and even if were diagnosed with BPD, you should not remind him that he's got it and is ill.  Something sounds off though.  I mean, he says he lacks empathy and makes excuses for it which indicates that he is either patronizing you with an excuse in an effort to manipulate sympathy from you. Most BPDs have little to no insight into themselves and don't believe that anything is wrong with them.

I know how you feel.  I was battling evil for 18 years before I decided to leave.  Count your blessings and know that you're doing what is right for YOU regardless of the reasons.  The bottom line is that you're not happy in the relationship.  Take care of yourself and focus on your own therapy and getting strong.  For some reason you love him even though he made you unhappy.  You might be codependent and feel the need to engage in relationships that you need to control? 


The safest and most mature thing to do is to take accountability for being dissatisfied with the relationship and work from that point. say things like, ' I'm unhappy and I think it's best if I leave'.  Don't shift blame to him.   :)on't say things like, " if you were not ... .I'd be happy.  If you could be... .I would be happy".  If you tell him how to behave, how he should have behaved, then he may mimic exactly what he knows you want him to do but, that's not indicative of good character, it's just him manipulating you.  That's why it's so important for you NOT to control him by telling him how to behave. Obviously, he knows you're unhappy and he's not been able to or willing to change so, it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

Hey leaving,

thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. I am sorry to hear that you had the battle for such a long time.

I was also asking myself, whether I am codependent. Otherwise, why I tolerated his behavior again and again. Finally, I understand that I am not codependent, but a caretaker. The difference is, a caretaker behaves in this way in his relationship, while the codependent person also has the same problem in other contexts. e.g. with friends or with colleagues.

I understand that my behavior is affected by my mom. I don't know whether she has BPD traits, but at least she cannot control her temper. And really said something bad a normal person can hardly accept. But she treats me and my Dad really well. Therefore, I learnt a system in my childhood that, don't take other people's words personally, but try to see their good deeds. That's why I didn't feel so furious when he said bad things to me.

But you are right. I can not leave anymore like this. He always wanted to spend time with me, at the same time trying to find problem in me. So self-controversial.

I am leaving. I am sure.

[Leaving]

No, you should not tell him that he might have BPD.  First of all, you're not a doctor or therapist and even if were diagnosed with BPD, you should not remind him that he's got it and is ill.  Something sounds off though.  I mean, he says he lacks empathy and makes excuses for it which indicates that he is either patronizing you with an excuse in an effort to manipulate sympathy from you. Most BPDs have little to no insight into themselves and don't believe that anything is wrong with them.

I know how you feel.  I was battling evil for 18 years before I decided to leave.  Count your blessings and know that you're doing what is right for YOU regardless of the reasons.  The bottom line is that you're not happy in the relationship.  Take care of yourself and focus on your own therapy and getting strong.  For some reason you love him even though he made you unhappy.  You might be codependent and feel the need to engage in relationships that you need to control? 


The safest and most mature thing to do is to take accountability for being dissatisfied with the relationship and work from that point. say things like, ' I'm unhappy and I think it's best if I leave'.  Don't shift blame to him.   :)on't say things like, " if you were not ... .I'd be happy.  If you could be... .I would be happy".  If you tell him how to behave, how he should have behaved, then he may mimic exactly what he knows you want him to do but, that's not indicative of good character, it's just him manipulating you.  That's why it's so important for you NOT to control him by telling him how to behave. Obviously, he knows you're unhappy and he's not been able to or willing to change so, it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

Hey leaving,

thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. I am sorry to hear that you had the battle for such a long time.

I was also asking myself, whether I am codependent. Otherwise, why I tolerated his behavior again and again. Finally, I understand that I am not codependent, but a caretaker. The difference is, a caretaker behaves in this way in his relationship, while the codependent person also has the same problem in other contexts. e.g. with friends or with colleagues.

I understand that my behavior is affected by my mom. I don't know whether she has BPD traits, but at least she cannot control her temper. And really said something bad a normal person can hardly accept. But she treats me and my Dad really well. Therefore, I learnt a system in my childhood that, don't take other people's words personally, but try to see their good deeds. That's why I didn't feel so furious when he said bad things to me.

But you are right. I can not leave anymore like this. He always wanted to spend time with me, at the same time trying to find problem in me. So self-controversial.

I am leaving. I am sure.

Apple,

Same here about the 'mom' influence.  My mother is just like my husband- both are NPD/BPD.   Sounds like you have a lot of  emotional healing and work ahead but don't give up!  Just keep moving forward and try to surround yourself with supportive well adjusted people.  It's not easy but it's the right thing to do.  I'm a care-giver too.  Interesting.  I thought I was codependent but now that I think about it, I think I'm more of a care-giver- especially in my marriage.  I'm not codpendent with other people.

My therapist advised me how to handle leaving when I decided to leave. I had to consciously make certain that I kept my leaving about ME and that it had nothing to do with him.  If I lost control during a heated discussion and indicated that anything was his fault, it only made matters worse and turned into a competitive tit for tat drama.   I told myself it was better that he believe it was all my fault and I played the villain when necessary but not in a fake patronizing way.  Even when he would blame me for deserting him and abandoning responsibilities to him, etc...   I just nodded and said, ' You're right and I'm truly sorry that I've hurt you'.   After all, I didn't need any validation- certainly not from him.  I knew what happened and why and was so glad to be leaving that I was willing to be the fall guy ( woman).  I don't care what anyone else thinks of me.  No one else was married to him and no one else lived in our home or saw what I had to live with.  So, there was no point in seeking any validation from them.  Stay strong!