Obsessing about the wedding and money.

[maxsterling]

Simple boundary - I won't be present for abuse.

Came home from work today to her obsessing about the weeding and money.  I tried to get her to take a break.  She responded with insults, cursing, screaming.  I told her I was going to take a walk and be back in 30.  I called the crisis line, scared.  The woman advised me to stay out for a little bit, come home and see how things went, and if things turned ugly, go out for the evening.  Sure enough, she came back screaming and insulting.  I left.  Told her I was going to a friend's house.  Abusive texts followed, harassing phone calls.  I started ignoring the calls, turned my phone off for a bit.  Turned it back on to call crisis line again, plenty more abusive texts, claiming I am abusive, autistic ?, etc.  She said she was going to smash all my "precious things".  Then told me she was breaking dishes.  I told her if she did not call the crisis line, I would call police.  She claimed to break more dishes, I called police.  Police arrived, saw no grounds to do anything.  I again pleaded with her to call crisis line.  But no threats made against herself, nothing they could do.  She's claiming she wants divorce, etc.  

I'm still at friend's house, turned phone off.  Crisis line is telling me to stay away.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

Any idea what triggered all this? Had it been brewing for a while?

Sticking to your no abuse boundary is paramount

[maxsterling]

She called because one of the pets died.  Went home, yeah, pet was dead, then she wanted to lecture at me and be angry for awhile.  Now her accusation is that I have autism, everyone agrees including our MC, that I am on drugs (benadryl for allergies).  Too late to go back to friend's house, at 1:30 said I was gong to sleep on couch, 5 minutes after lights out, came in to lecture me some more, said she felt like killing me, asked me to leave.  I refuses, she insisted and screamed until I left.   Hope the rest of the pets are okay.  Now at a hotel, she's still ranting via text messaging.  I want to shut the phone off, but considering that she could become suicidal - is this wise?  

Uggh.  

[maxsterling]

Any idea what triggered all this? Had it been brewing for a while?

Sticking to your no abuse boundary is paramount

Money.  She claims we are dirt poor and I am controlling all finances.  Yes, brewing for awhile.  2 weeks still until her disability money comes, had to pay all her bills today, 200 bucks left.  She's been having a crisis about money every other day for the past few weeks. 

Paramount?  Really no other option at this point.

[123Phoebe]

Sticking to your no abuse boundary is paramount

This includes the PETS!  One of the pets dies and just like, whatever, she says she feels like killing you?  Screams until you leave?

Hope the rest of the pets are okay.   

Yea, me too.  You can't save her from herself, max.  You can save the pets!  That is your responsibility.

[sweetheart]

Hi max it might have helped you more to continue on your previous thread so that you are able to see a more linear pattern for these dysregulations.

From your posts it is clear that your wife has been dysregulating pretty much regularly since the end of her last teaching job. There also continues to be certain issues that regularly trigger her; your family, pregnancy, money, pain, work and so on.

What she may also be aware of is that you are starting to struggle both physically and emotionally with her BPD.

What I can hear you are very good at is validating her, you sound kind and compassionate of her needs.

What might help you now is to really think about a plan of action for the crisis you outline here what you can do to help you feel less overwhelmed.

Some of the things you identified as crucial to help were having a P and a more proactive treatment plan in place for your wife.

Where are things with this, does she have a P, is this being sorted, is her T fully aware of how unstable she has become? What actual changes are in place since the last crisis ?

It is important for you to get to a place where you are not just reacting to each crisis, this type of response will disable you it is not sustainable. I lived in that way until I came here, now I accept that my h is going to dysregulate as part of the disorder and I have plans in place to help me cope. Max I spent a year on the phone to crisis support teams, phoned the police maybe 10 times over the space of a year it was chaos, my h was in chaos, I was in chaos. I also spent a lot of emotional energy hoping each crisis would be the last. It never was.

Your body is telling you loudly that something is up, maybe your own T, not MC, could help you put something in place that will protect you better in the future.

What do you think you need to do that will help you the most ?

[waverider]

Getting to that place were chaos may happen around you, but not drive your life is difficult but important. This relies on accepting it is going to happen, just like a rainy day.

In practical terms it means being prepared for these boundaries and arranging it in such a way that it doesn't grind your life to a halt. Having a productive plan B to get on with

[formflier]

 

How soon till she gets to see her P? 

[maxsterling]

How soon till she gets to see her P? 

A month

I'm a mess this morning.  3-4 hours sleep.  An hour in I woke up and it hit me like a freight train.  I need to not regret anything I did last night and to try and not analyze and fix what can't be fixed.  This has been building for weeks.  I had just discussed this with my P.  Night before she went on a similar rant about money, how she gave up good job to be with me, was all a big mistake, etc.  It was building in me, too, as I noticed I was losing patience and falling apart and knowing I needed boundaries.

She seems to be most mad and feel most betrayed by me calling police.  Yes, I know in the past that makes situation worse.  I avoided doing that until she mentioned she was acting violently.  I feel I couldn't take a chance, and was hoping that would be what would eventually get her to talk to a P.  I eventually did get her to talk to crisis line, she screamed at and blamed me to them, and then hung up. 

[formflier]

A month

Any way to work with this?  Do something quicker due to emergency... .this is frustrating.

She seems to be most mad and feel most betrayed by me calling police.  Yes, I know in the past that makes situation worse.  I avoided doing that until she mentioned she was acting violently.  I feel I couldn't take a chance, and was hoping that would be what would eventually get her to talk to a P.  I eventually did get her to talk to crisis line, she screamed at and blamed me to them, and then hung up. 

I wouldn't worry about what she thinks about you calling the police. 

Kinda me wondering outloud here... .but I'm wondering if they should be called sooner sometimes.  She's trying to "flick" the police issue on you... .when really... .she needs to be able to control herself... .and they wouldn't show up.

Max,

Think about patterns... .I'm thinking she is going to have a really self aware stage here in a day or two.  Thoughts?

[maxsterling]

Kinda me wondering outloud here... .but I'm wondering if they should be called sooner sometimes.  She's trying to "flick" the police issue on you... .when really... .she needs to be able to control herself... .and they wouldn't show up.

I don't think calling the police ultimately does any good for helping with her mental health issues.  It's not like it teaches her that she must learn to control her emotions; she just is not capable.  But, calling the police does put light on the seriousness of the situation, gives a glimmer of hope it will force her in front of a P, but most of all makes some kind of record of this in the event things escalate in some way.

Think about patterns... .I'm thinking she is going to have a really self aware stage here in a day or two.  Thoughts?

It's possible.  But this feels different.  Way more anger and vitriol this time.  Normally, she tires after a few hours.  Last night, she kept going.  Maybe if she goes to her AA meeting, talks with her friends and sponsor, I will get the self aware but still blame me stage in a day or two. I am sure she will want me to apologize for calling police.  But I don't know this time.  And I don't know where I stand this time.  I don't even know if I can handle this any more.  I deeply love her, but this feels like a wall.  I'm not sure I can apologize for calling police.  I'm not sure I can go forward unless she commits herself to more serious T, like DBT.  Half of me feels like going to the courthouse to file annulment paperwork today.  Probably just raw emotions driving that right now.  I just don't know what to do from here.

[sweetheart]

Calling the police can make things worse but for me max when my h escalated things into dangerous threatening destructive behaviour calling the police for me was just good boundary enforcement. I also felt safer because it was taken out of my hands.

My h was also really shocked that I called the police on him, accusing me of betrayal as well. He used to say 'not even my parents called the police on me and I was much worse' - perhaps if they had he wouldn't have ended up running off dysregulated and wreaking havoc in his past who knows. I'm not prepared to take that risk.

The situation is already made worse by the fact that she is dysregulating. Your actions are sound.

My rule of thumb for outside involvement is, overdoses, damage to property, injury to himself (punching himself in face or head, hitting his head off wall), running out of house on scale of 8/9 dysregulation, risk then to others. The swearing, shouting, l can disengage from, that's easy, it's the other behaviours that I am unwilling to deal with in isolation.

My h now knows I will involve others now if I have to, in hours his mental health team, out of hours, police and crisis team. I will also direct him to use this support if all the warning signs align for a serious dysregulation. In the event that he won't make the call then I do.

Before I came to this forum I was just trying to deal with everything, hoping if I kept mopping up the mess, sucking up and absorbing the chaos he would improve. He didn't, he got worse and my inaction made him worse. My boundaries were weak and I let him trash them through FOG.

Keep doing what you're doing max it is good boundary enforcement because your wife's behaviour needs to be visible to people/professionals other than you for this to act as a catalyst for additional care and improved treatment. I say this because your wife is someone who dysregulates in a way that can be destructive and dangerous and that is too much for you to manage on your own.

" I need to not regret anything I did last night and to try and not analyse and fix what can't be fixed."

Make this quote from you your mantra. 

[sweetheart]

Max I cross posted, it sounds as though FOG has you caught in your considerations around apologies and the police. No apologies are necessary, remember this is not something you have to get drawn in it with your wife.

[maxsterling]

Just not sure what to do now.  I had taken the day off so that she, myself, and her dad could go to our wedding site to check a few things out.  She sent me a message in the middle of last night saying she is still going to go, for "one last look", and plans on still inviting her dad.   Not sure how to respond.  I am still at hotel, but need to go home at some point to take care of deceased guinea pig. 

[sweetheart]

Max I know you're not sure but what do you want to do, presumably you plan on going home, you could text that you are on your way home and take it from there. Go home if there is any continuation of last nights abuse just leave straight away. Try not to talk about last nights dysregulation outside of MC. Leave this area alone and try not to be drawn into a discussion about it as it will most likely act as a trigger for you wife.

Can you test the waters with a neutral text, if no answer you can still return home and take it from there.

[maxsterling]

well, she sent a message saying she is still going to drive out to the wedding site by herself, or with her dad but she cannot get a hold of him.  She wants to take the deceased guinea pig with her.  I think that would be good for her, and give me a break.  Of course she blamed me for the reason her dad is not getting back to her. 

[Cat Familiar]

Max, how do you feel about going along with the ceremony now?

[formflier]

 

Hang in there max! 

[maxsterling]

Well, I wound up going to wedding site with W and her parents.  They were already expecting me to come, and W did not want to tell them she wanted to cancel just yet.  Wanted to make it look like all was fine.  Wife was talking with her parents about wanting to do this or that for the ceremony, talking about this person or that person who is coming.  So if she was just playing them, she was going above and beyond what she needed to do.  We get to wedding site, people bend over backwards trying to de-stress W.  Wedding coordinator, her dad, her stepmom, caterer all help put her mind at ease.  Those that know her already know her personality, those that don't have mostly figured it out. By the end of the day, it sounds mostly like she wants to have wedding again. 

Came home and buried pet in yard.  She questioned whether pet had heart attack because of her anger the day before. 

I guess I am okay with continuing with the wedding.  Not sure why. Her insults mostly roll off me, and I think I am getting better with boundaries. 

Will go to MC on Friday morning. 

[maxsterling]

oh yeah, still sleeping on sofa tonight.  No yelling or screaming, though.

[Cat Familiar]

That must have been surreal to be talking with wedding coordinators and her parents. I'm glad you've got a MC appointment tomorrow.   

[maxsterling]

That must have been surreal to be talking with wedding coordinators and her parents. I'm glad you've got a MC appointment tomorrow.   

Oh, for sure!    And it's eerie how much they seem to know wife's personality and try to calm her down.

[Cat Familiar]

They're probably thrilled to have you take her off their hands.   That sounds bad when I write it, but I'm sure they're glad to have a responsible loving son in law like you. 

[maxsterling]

They're probably thrilled to have you take her off their hands.   That sounds bad when I write it, but I'm sure they're glad to have a responsible loving son in law like you. 

Yeah - they kinda joke that way, but I know it is true.  They see me as sort of a "catalyst" that has brought their wild daughter back into their lives.  What I have noticed is that both her dad and stepmom seem to try validating type of communication techniques on her.  Sure, they frequently get frustrated and say invalidating things (as we all do), but yesterday I concluded that her dad and stepmom at some point must have sought advice on how to deal with her better.

[maxsterling]

Well, she's still upset.  Hugely upset.  Wants to blame me for everything.  Even for doing things she asked me to do.  She asked me to contact my sister about the possibility of my nephews having a role in the wedding ceremony.  I did.  Now she's upset at me for doing that. 

For her, everything seems to boil back down to me calling the police the other night or leaving when she became abusive and violent.  She's mad at me because her dad contacted me because I seemed upset yesterday.  Again, brings that back to me calling the police.  I guess this is an "extinction burst" ?

For me, I know she has been upset for weeks.  Every other day it has been something.  It's not just me.  One day our wedding coordinator is her friend and savior.  The next day, coordinator gets sick and in hospital, and suddenly wife thinks our coordinator scammed us.  I deal with this for weeks, finally enforce boundaries.  Not going to be present for screaming or other abuse.  She sees boundary as "control".  I did my best to make it clear to her that it's about me protecting myself. 

Somehow I need to convince her that seeing a P is for her benefit.

[Cat Familiar]

Do you have a relationship with her parents where you could have a heart to heart talk with them and plan strategies? If they've done some counseling work on dealing with her, you might have some good advocates.

[waverider]

se.  She sees boundary as "control".  I did my best to make it clear to her that it's about me protecting myself. 

Use phrases like "you are free to do whatever you like but I am not not going to do... " "we all have choices, you can choose yours, and likewise I am free to do mine"

Fear of control is a big issue, you are unlikely to change that. What it translates to in reality is they have a fear of NOT being in control. It is the attack is the best form of defence issue  (fight or flight) (control or be controlled)

[formflier]

For her, everything seems to boil back down to me calling the police the other night or leaving when she became abusive and violent. 

I would think that MC would be a great place to clarify boundaries.  Not in an "in your face" kinda way... .but it needs to be clear that you will make choices for you.

Also... .I wonder if you need to have a new boundary that says you will not listen to blame... .might just be me... .but I seem to have picked up a vibe from you that either she is doing more blaming... .or it is not rolling off you like it used to.

This has got to be horrible to listen to... .so don't.

Somehow I need to convince her that seeing a P is for her benefit.

Is she at all resisting this?

[Grey Kitty]

I guess I am okay with continuing with the wedding.  Not sure why. Her insults mostly roll off me, and I think I am getting better with boundaries. 

oh yeah, still sleeping on sofa tonight.  No yelling or screaming, though.

max... .take some time out and think for yourself, WHY you think that this is acceptable behavior. Indeed, good enough behavior to upgrade the relationship to a marriage which will be harder for you to get out of.

And let me ask you another question--do you expect her behavior to get better or worse after the wedding?

[maxsterling]

Thought today would be the day things started to the remorseful/self aware stage.  Nope.  Still black as ever.