lashing out and rejecting all men in my life

[caughtnreleased]

I haven't posted in a long time here... .but I just came to this realization and was hoping for some feedback.  I've noticed it's something I've been doing for about six months now, ever since the latest recycle with my BPDex where I blew up at him and blocked him. I attempted reconciliation, but he wasn't having it... .so we're NC.  Shortly after that, I got in two big blow-up fights with a couple of male friends and blocked them (on the phone).  One of them has since made every effort at reconciliation (to the point of knocking on my door and bringing me a gift) which I accepted but I have since not really done anything to actually see him, despite his inviting me for dinner a few times.  A third male friend, while I have not blown up at him, and don't think I will, is annoying the HELL out of me, and I simply don't want to see him.

I am also taking out all my work frustrations on male colleagues at work who are in fact my only and closest friends in a workplace that I don't really like.  One of them whom I blew up (or rather gave orders to in a rather rude manner after he was being obnoxious) told me I was rude and out of line with him which I accepted and we have since reconciled, another I am just bossing around and he seems to be ok with it, and a third is jubilant when I'm nice to him, and distraught when I decide I'm angry with him.  I feel bad. But I don't really know why I am feeling this way, and what I should do about it.

Throughout this, I am having a bit of a showdown with my father who had been in charge of my finances, and who has essentially bungled it.  He can't take any criticism whatsoever, so after I asked questions (with him I never had a serious confrontation, and indeed I would never because I think he would be completely devastated by it) about my finances which pointed to the disastrous situation they are in (he has been managing them until now - I am officially taking over), he downplayed the damage, and then is triangulating with a childhood friend of mine. I find that very hurtful. 

What is making me very uncomfortable, is that this is how my UBPD mother treated my father.  She blew up at him, would be constantly be annoyed with him and would denigrate him non-stop.  I don't want to treat men like this. And I don't want to feel annoyed by them.  I feel bad about hurting my friends.  One friend, I have been NC for about three months.  He lives in different city and I don't know how to make a move to reconcile.  I will say, that in these arguments, they are never one sided of course... .but... .I'm taking stock and every man in my life is being given a hard time.

I'm angry.  But I'm worried and sad.  I love these people that I am lashing out at, and I know they care about me.  Some are better able than others to reach out to me and tell me that some of what I do is out of place.   Anyone have advice on how to overcome this?

[downwhim]

Your probably still in the anger stage re: your relationship with your BPD. We are all suffering on this board from the effects. We all handle it differently. Are you seeing a T? Maybe she/he can tell you why you are lashing out in this fashion and give you some techniques to use.

Be loving to yourself as self love is where we all start.

[Mike-X]

Sorry that you are struggling with this. It is good that you are aware it. Remember that the communication techniques are for you as much as they are for the person with BPD. They are to help you to stay centered when your emotions are being triggered. They also are just useful/good communication practices when interacting with all people, BPD or not.

[eyvindr]

Hi, caughtnreleased --

Sorry you're going through this. No fun, any way you slice it.

So, yeah -- as downwhim says, it sounds like you're pretty p*ssed off. AS the song goes, "Anger is an energy" -- maybe you've bottled some up without being aware of it, and it's coming out. That said, it's up to you to find ways to channel it productively.

And as Mike-X says -- it's good that you're aware that something's going on, and that you don't like it --

What is making me very uncomfortable, is that this is how my UBPD mother treated my father.  She blew up at him, would be constantly be annoyed with him and would denigrate him non-stop.  I don't want to treat men like this. And I don't want to feel annoyed by them.  I feel bad about hurting my friends.  One friend, I have been NC for about three months.  He lives in different city and I don't know how to make a move to reconcile.  I will say, that in these arguments, they are never one sided of course... .but... .I'm taking stock and every man in my life is being given a hard time.

I'm angry.  But I'm worried and sad.  I love these people that I am lashing out at, and I know they care about me.  Some are better able than others to reach out to me and tell me that some of what I do is out of place.   Anyone have advice on how to overcome this?

You're aware that you're doing some things that you don't want to be doing. What's stopping you from stopping?

Maybe start by calling your estranged friend. Tell him what you told us. You had a bad break-up, it's left some fallout, you've been cranky -- and you feel badly about it. How about a good old, "Hey -- I'm sorry. I screwed up. Can you forgive me?"

You got this, caught.

[fromheeltoheal]

I get it caught; I've been pissed off at all the women in my life, all women really.  It's an extension of the anger I felt towards my ex, had enough of this bullsht, and it could be considered unfair to other women, although really it's an overreaction to very weak boundaries, ones I let down all the way to someone who abused the privilege.  So now, if I have to overshoot for a while to see where the boundaries need to be, sometimes the way to find out where the line is is by crossing it, that's OK, and as I work through this, if an apology is necessary and I value a relationship with someone, then I need to fix it, and the right people will understand.  Whatever, if I end up with healthier boundaries as a result, then it was for the best.  Live and learn... .

[myself]

Are there women in your life who are 'bothering you', but you're not lashing out at them? Just because they're not men? It could be a temporary protection-mode, that you'll let go of in time perhaps by taking it person by person (accepting men again) to change the deeper patterns. For me, it hasn't been that 'all women' were bad or being scapegoated, but I have reacted to/definitely extra-noticed people who were mean, rude, dismissive, cold, etc. There are also times when we're not as sure of ourselves and those voices like our mother's rush in to fill the gaps. It's who we are, too, in a way, but is also seeing the world through their eyes not ours. Making amends with your friends will be good for all of you. Agreed, a T could help you unravel much of this.

[caughtnreleased]

Hi Thank you all for your advice. Yes there have been women in my life who have been bothering me.  But I feel I've got a better handle on that.  Last year, I established really firm boundaries with my uBPD mother.  She made me pay for it, but things have smoothed out since then, to a point where I am no longer very bothered by what she does.  My female friends, there's really only one who bothers me quite a bit, but I don't feel as much anger against her for her trespasses (flaws) as I do for the men around me.   

I agree that reaching out to friends is good advice.  The only thing is that in all these situations, I did not react out of the blue.  The male friends whom I shut out and shut down, there was a kind of underlying and recurrent pattern of provocation and anger with both of them.  Finally, both of them lost it on me, and I shut them out.  So, it may be more like a "I really didn't like you calling me derogatory names, and making fun of my family problems." instead of a full-out apology, although I am aware that I also did things to provoke him as well. If he can respond appropriately, then we can work on our friendship.  If he can't well then I guess I won't.  The one guy that I have reconciled with accepted this approach from me. 

I am seeing a T... .and had initially discussed a couple episodes, but I have just come to the realization that all men in my life are getting a piece of this.   I think I was very much triggered by my UBPD ex, who essentially invited me over to his place, while leaving traces of having had someone else over in his bedroom a few days prior.  It did not lead to an immediate blow up... .but the blow up did come a few days later when he then poured fuel on the fire.  Since then, I'm the one pouring fuel on some fires myself, but also blowing up. 

I hadn't really put all the pieces together until yesterday actually.

[eyvindr]

Makes sense, caught. Didn't realize when I responded that these guys had given you some grief -- though I see you alluded to that in your post. In which case, they might have very well had it coming.

Love Rumi, btw -- good stuff. Hang in there.

[HappyNihilist]

I'm sorry you're struggling with this, caught.   Anger is a normal part of the grieving process, and we can't control when we feel it - just our response to it. We can look at what these feelings are telling us - like you're doing. 

I'm over 10 months out from my own relationship, and I still have some lingering issues with Men in general.

Work relationships haven't been a problem for me... .but part of that is that I have an awesome boss, who is a man and an incredibly Good Person - whose presence reminds me that generalizations are unfair.  

But I've definitely found myself losing patience with male friends more easily, about things that previously wouldn't have bothered me or that I would have let slide. I've been working on differentiating between 1. things that trigger me and remind me of my ex, 2. things that irritate me because I'm still a bit raw, and 3. things that truly are contrary to my own values. For #1 and #2, those are things that only I can control and work on. When something falls into category #3, though, that's reason to look at the relationship more closely.

This is the case for any relationship, with any gender... .my experience with my exBPDbf has definitely made me re-examine all of the relationships in my life.

The only thing is that in all these situations, I did not react out of the blue.  The male friends whom I shut out and shut down, there was a kind of underlying and recurrent pattern of provocation and anger with both of them. 

In cases like these, it may be that you're just now more in tune with your boundaries and values, and you realize that friendships with certain people aren't particularly healthy or fulfilling. It's perfectly acceptable to let go of friendships that aren't mutually beneficial.

I am seeing a T... .and had initially discussed a couple episodes, but I have just come to the realization that all men in my life are getting a piece of this.   I think I was very much triggered by my UBPD ex, who essentially invited me over to his place, while leaving traces of having had someone else over in his bedroom a few days prior.  It did not lead to an immediate blow up... .but the blow up did come a few days later when he then poured fuel on the fire.  Since then, I'm the one pouring fuel on some fires myself, but also blowing up. 

I hadn't really put all the pieces together until yesterday actually.

Being triggered by your exbf's thoughtless, hurtful behavior is understandable. We've all lashed out at people when triggered or angry. It doesn't make it right - just human. You've apologized for and owned up to your mistakes, and you're trying to ensure you don't continue to make the same mistakes. At the same time, you're more critically examining the relationships in your life. This is hard stuff, and you're doing great work. 

[enlighten me]

One thing I noticed after my break up is how intollerent I was to behaviour that my ex displayed. A work colleague was one of the most self centred people I had met. Where once it never bothered me I began to be short with him. I couldnt stand being around him.

Another thing you could be dealing with is mirroring your exs behaviour. There seems to be some push pull going on with your colleagues.

[caughtnreleased]

Thank you very much for your feedback and your encouragement.  I think part of this whole process is in fact to learn to deal in a more healthy way with my hurt and my anger.  I grew up in a household where anger was the only emotion that was recognized, or given any kind of respect.  Any time I expressed hurt, I was very badly humiliated, so I stopped expressing hurt.  As a result, I don't know how to express and process my hurt, and similarly, when I become angry it can overwhelm me to a point of incapacitating me (this happened with my ex). 

I agree that this process is certainly helping me to look more clearly at my friendships and relationships.  I guess I need to better understand what it is in a person that I am reacting to.  But, as I even think about it, I've been lashing out at my friends and colleagues, and on the other hand quietly seething inside at others who I am not in a position to confront or rebuff (my male boss). 

Happynihilist, thank you for the advice about your three categories.  I think that is a very good way to  look at things, and right now I feel as though I'm having trouble differentiating between all three, and simply react with a strong push to all.  I am slowly starting to distinguish between when my own boundaries are really crossed, however sometimes I wonder if I am not the one also provoking anger in men to a point where they lash out and cross my boundaries.

Enlighten me... .this is a very good point.  And I think with the push pull, I wonder if it's mirroring of my ex or maybe I have my own dynamic of push pull.  I thought for a bit that it might be my colleague who has a push pull dynamic... .but, indeed, it may be me. 

I admit that in my relationships I find it difficult to identify who exactly is driving a dynamic, and who is simply responding to it.

[Grey Kitty]

caughtnreleased, one possibility is that you are finding this more with men because you allow more men to get close to you than women. Dunno about the gender thing for sure.

I'm wondering if you have two problems though, instead of one problem.

• Your main (only? oldest?) tool for resolving conflicts with people is anger and lashing out at them. [And I think this has been addressed fairly well already]



• Your social (and work) circle may be full of people who are a lot less healthy than you think. They may have been a better match for you before you had done some healing and learning on your part. You may want to hold them to a higher standard than you were doing before, and expect better behavior out of the people in your life. If you do this, some will rise to the occasion, and others will drop out.

[caughtnreleased]

Hi Grey Kitty,

You raise some good questions.  Yes, it may indeed be the case that I allow more men to get close than women.  It is true that my only friends at work are men.  I do however have what I consider to be close friendships with women outside of my work, but I have not had similar conflicts and lashes of anger as I have with the men in my life. I have been angry with some female friends, but I don't lash out at them, as I do with men.  I will have to reflect more on this.

It's true that as I have been healing, I'm starting to see people more clearly.  It really is a pretty fascinating thing actually.  I think I am still evolving in learning how to hold people to a higher standard, and I am seeing this within my circle of friends, how some people are rising to the occasion, and others are simply fighting back, etc., probably to eventually fall away - i.e. I'm on a moving train, and it's moving, with or without them. But I'm not fully there yet in terms of holding people to a higher standard.  It feels like it's two steps forward, and one step back sometimes.  Thank you for raising those points.

[enlighten me]

I think holding people to a higher standard is your problem. You should be holding them to a lower standard.

If you have high expectations then when people fail to meet them they will dissapoint you. This is what pwBPD do. During the idolisation phase the expect so much from us. We have the potential to do anything and be all they want. As we fail to live up to these expectations then we are demonised. We are looked on as a con artist that has tricked them.

If you have high expectations then you will more often than not be dissapointed. There is nothing wrong with having personal high standards or expecting high standards from people with work. what you cant do is expect high standards in others in all aspects of life.

[Grey Kitty]

I think holding people to a higher standard is your problem. You should be holding them to a lower standard.

... .

If you have high expectations then you will more often than not be dissapointed. There is nothing wrong with having personal high standards or expecting high standards from people with work. what you cant do is expect high standards in others in all aspects of life.

There is a big difference between having high standards and expecting people to live up to them.

If I expect somebody to do something... .especially if I set my heart on that expectation, I'm playing chicken with a train in a small car... .eventually it is going to turn out badly for me.

If I live my life according to high standards... .and hold people in my life to those same standards... .the ones who live up to them move closer into my inner circle, and the ones who don't move farther away. Or if they are at the 'right' distance already, leaving them where they are.

For example... .my parents are very good, kind, supportive people... .but not with any emotional depth. [Saving you 18 long paragraphs about my FOO that were mostly in other topics ] After my wife cheated on me, she finally said some things about being done with our r/s or not sure she could come back. I told my parents we were having troubles. That was back in November. Over new year's, my wife and I were doing a bit better, and saw them (It was for my grandmother's funeral)... .there was no discussion about our marriage, 'tho there was plenty else to deal with at the time.

Still... .since I gave them the news, I've talked with them dozens of times. They haven't even asked me how things are going with my wife. Not once. Nor have I mentioned it. I might not until I'm ready to file for divorce, or have to bring them into it for a personal business reason.

And I haven't brought it up with them either. I don't trust my mother to give me good emotional support at the level I need here. (My dad might do a little better, but he's the quiet, controlled one. I don't have much chance to talk to him alone.)

They aren't in my inner circle in that way, and that feels right to me--harsh as it is to say, they don't live up to my standards of emotional avialibity. I'm not expecting them to change in this way.

[eyvindr]

Wow, GK --

Still... .since I gave them the news, I've talked with them dozens of times. They haven't even asked me how things are going with my wife. Not once. Nor have I mentioned it. I might not until I'm ready to file for divorce, or have to bring them into it for a personal business reason.

Glad I'm not the only one! In my case, it's mostly my sibs. I'm the oldest of eight. And I've had my share of emotional crises (duh) -- but anything involving my romantic attachments has pretty much not received much more than an initial expression of sympathy. It's like, "oh, wow -- that's too bad *hug* -- carry on, now!" I used to get really bothered by it, but I've come to accept that it's just their way. My connections with some of my sibs is stronger than with others, and my mom's always a great source of support, if you get her one-on-one -- but, as a family unit, they just don't really operate as a team. I don't think they even see themselves that way, and a lot of that I'm sure goes back to how we were raised -- very traditional parental roles, in a traditional Catholic household, so there's a lot of things-taken-for-granted-because-that's-the-way-God-made-us. Whereas the only times I go to church any more are for concerts or funerals.

Also, at least with my sibs, I think a lot of it is that they don't know how to handle difficult emotions -- and they think it's all private, and no one wants to hear about it. And they think that, if I wanted to talk about it, I'd bring it up -- some have even told me as much, when I've asked them about this. Which is backwards, I know -- not everyone just wants to walk into a room, say "Hi!" exchange hugs and start emoting all over the place. I know it's a little too narc-y for me.

And then there's the whole rational side -- they may just be much more practical and less romantic than I am, when it comes to this stuff. You know, like -- "hey -- sorry it didn't work out -- you deserve better. Lots of fish in the sea, eh, what?" Can't fault anyone for that.

[enlighten me]

I agree grey kitty that there is a difference between having high standards and expecting others to live up to them.

One of the side effects I have myself from being in a BPD relationship is that I am less tollerent. I think this is because I am expecting others to live up to my high standards. When married men are openly letching at women they are imediately relegated in my opinion of them. If someone helps themselves to something without asking my hackles go up.

I never used to be like this. Well not as bad as I am now. Ive been around long enough to know people have different values and standards but cant stop it from winding me up like I used to be able to do.

Maybe as my ex was always so critical I have taken on that trait like a victim of bullying becoming a bully.

[eyvindr]

enlighten me --

This is pretty open-minded of you to consider --

Maybe as my ex was always so critical I have taken on that trait like a victim of bullying becoming a bully.

Def worth investigating, if the concern feels real to you -- wouldn't surprise me if it was a  .

But it very well may also be a step forward for you. I know that, after gong through these experiences, I'm a lot less tolerant in general of behaviors from others that I used to, as a rule, be pretty laid back about. I think many of us who are naturally disinclined to overreact and make a big deal about nonsense tend to also be pretty forgiving -- and willing to give others the benefit of the doubt that, when they do have the occasional freak out, it's just that -- a freak out, and occasional -- in other words, an anomaly. Then, when we find out that this is their standard M.O., we feel blindsided.

So, I learned the hard way -- pay attention to what people say, but pay more attention to what they do. So, yeah -- I'm less patient with other people's negative and unhealthy behaviors -- and I'm fine with that.

[enlighten me]

Not really concerned by it. Feels more like an awakaning. Like ive put up with bad behaviour. I can live with the occassional thing from friends but when it becomes an underlying trait I now cut them loose.

probably a lot healthier than what I used to be. In my opinion anyway.

[eyvindr]

I tend to agree with you. I find I'm much happier in general not putting up with people whose behaviors tend towards the childish and self-centered. As a result, my circle of acquaintances is smaller -- but of a higher quality.