I'm starting to move on

[Grey Kitty]

I saw my wife once for a little bit. I was dropping some mail off for her, and I saw her at a public event she was doing. Turned out that not many people were showing up, so she was both glad to see me and glad to have somebody show up.

The frustrating thing is that I do enjoy her company and our conversations. Except for the crap I don't want to talk about, or the issues in our marriage that aren't resolving in any useful way.

She had been pushing me for a while to engage me/see me for a while. A few hours before this event (yesterday evening), I sent her this text message:

Wife, you have told me that you do not want a romantic relationship with me.

I want more than a platonic relationship with you.

I am taking the space I need to deal with this loss.

I'll see you at the book signing; please don't stop by the boat just now.

We've still got a lot of personal business to deal with; we had some text exchanges about some of it today. Those go fine, except that I find myself deflecting emotional engagement now and again.

Just a bit ago I got this text from her... .

Grey, thank you so much for coming to the [event]. I understand why you need space. But I want you to know how much I like you, love you, and appreciate you. Please don't give up on our marriage.

   I'm pretty damn sick of these sort of half-way re-engaging things. She's telling me not to give up on our marriage. Yet she's the one leaving it. And she freaks out when I act like I believe she really is leaving it. AGAIN.

Pardon me for stating the obvious here... .every time I start moving forward with a life apart from her, she tries to yank me back in. Blargh. Blah. Grrrr.

Fortunately I'm tired... .I'll probably feel better in the morning.

[patientandclear]

Blarg indeed.

We were discussing a few weeks back that she wants you to be married to her, even if she doesn't want to be married to you.  That seems to be what is going on here.  She wants to be able to continue to access you in at least emotionally intimate ways, when and if she wants to.

From my own experience I think this kind of situation is the very hardest to walk away from.  Ambiguity, mixed signals, no overt abuse.  It's hard to get sure of what to do when everything is so murky.

[myself]

The chains, so to speak, connecting you to her are different in many ways than the ones connecting her to you. She doesn't sound very worried about losing you, or like she's stepping up to help make sure that doesn't happen. Don't let her hooks keep you from forward motion. You appreciate her 'friendship' but also see quite clearly that underneath it there are control issues at play, which undercuts the closeness you are looking for/thinking is there. She's not really 'yanking you back in' when you haven't really left yet, is she? How about you have all the space you need, and don't communicate with her for awhile? She's choosing to be out there living her life, on her own more than being married, so let her see what it's like when you're not in the picture (for awhile, for starters). What would that do for the current situation? For YOU, most importantly, it could mean change.

[eyvindr]

Hope you're feeling better today, Grey.

This sounds like the old push/pull to me:

Just a bit ago I got this text from her... .

Grey, thank you so much for coming to the [event]. I understand why you need space. But I want you to know how much I like you, love you, and appreciate you. Please don't give up on our marriage.

I agree with patientandclear -- when there's no overt, intense abuse, it does tend to fog things up even more. I know in my r-ship, it caused me to keep second-guessing myself and my feelings.

Or she might just be saying what she thinks are caring words. Like, not wanting to hurt you, and thinking this is what you want to hear, but not having any deeper meaning. I don't know.

I also agree with what songbook said about how it's just going to take a bit of time to get some clarity. I know you don't want to go NC, and generally LC sounds pretty workable in your case -- but it likely will draw out your healing process. As well as hers, I'd imagine. Hang in there.

[Crumbling]

    I'm pretty damn sick of these sort of half-way re-engaging things. She's telling me not to give up on our marriage. Yet she's the one leaving it. And she freaks out when I act like I believe she really is leaving it. AGAIN.

Pardon me for stating the obvious here... .every time I start moving forward with a life apart from her, she tries to yank me back in. Blargh. Blah. Grrrr.

Fortunately I'm tired... .I'll probably feel better in the morning.

   Hope your sleep was restful. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it this flip/flop, push/pull dynamic that lead you two to where you are right now... .?  That speaks volumes, doesn't it?  The r/s is practically non-existent, but yet the dramas continue.

It's hard not to care, isn't it... .

You know what you need to do.

[Grey Kitty]

Yep everybody, this is the same old mixed message / push-pull I've been dealing with for a while now.

And I really can't go NC right now--we still have a lot of shared things, financial and otherwise... .and communications are required to either divide things up, or to deal with shared stuff. I am pretty LC these days.

songbook, we are living separately these days, both of us making our own way in pretty much different directions. That much isn't going to change for a while, no matter what. I'm not moving back toward her (much, anyway), but I am feeling the tugs. (Ongoing pattern: She does or says something to push me away/separate. Then acts hurt and surprised when I respond as if I believe it!)

Went to bed late last night, and woke up early this morning, feeling pretty good. Took a nap in the afternoon 'tho. Did sleep peacefully... .both times.

[myself]

":)ear soon-to-be-ex-wife,

Let's set a date where we will divide up our stuff and deal with what we need to so we can both really move on. The push and pull we're involved in needs to stop, and this will be a way to help facilitate that. Thank you."

[KateCat]

Or maybe you're just not ready.

I'm not hearing "Reason to Believe" in my head when you describe the situation now. Maybe more the voice of Barbra Streisand, singing, "What difference if I say I'll go away . . . ".

[Grey Kitty]

Geez, I hope I'm not like "My Man". (Had to go find the song... .not as much of a fan of Barbara Streisand as Rod Stewart)

And it is not that I'm trying to live "Reason to believe"... .it is that when I hear the ringtone, I'm reminded of the risk, just in case I was thinking about answering the phone. I really do still lose clarity when I'm talking to her. I know she does too. Difference being that I know it isn't good for me, so I'm choosing to limit my exposure to it.

Honestly, I'm moving on right now emotionally whether we divide physical stuff up today or next month. And I'm not in a particular hurry for the stress of doing the division today. I'll have my own timetable for it later.

[KateCat]

I don't think you're living "Reason to Believe" anymore either. Because she's been pretty frank with you, hasn't she? I guess I'm just wondering what the next event is in your marriage? Is there a decision timeline or another marriage counseling session scheduled? Or is the status quo kind of moving you along by itself? (That's the part that I find hard to see, as you still sound pretty attached.)

[Grey Kitty]

Perhaps I sound attached because I am still. Or perhaps I sound that way because I mostly post about this relationship, instead of other things in my life.

My plan is to do some more boat work, then go on a sailing journey with a friend for a couple months.

It is what I want to do. I need time apart to get my mind and heart less enmeshed than it is. Whatever happens to my marriage.

I'm pretty comfortable leaving paperwork and asset division until after that journey.

[KateCat]

Sounds completely reasonable to me.

[Bloomer]

I think it is so much more difficult with a high functioning/mostly recovered BPD partner to make a decision like this and move on without regret or guilt, etc. Just keep focusing on you because regardless of what's happening in your relationship, if you are taking care of yourself it will be easier to decide what you want and feel confident in that decision. And taking a sailing trip with a friend sounds like an AMAZING way to focus on yourself and just do something fun. Until then, are you planning on continuing MC?

[Grey Kitty]

Nope on the MC. I just realized today that not only was I not planning to continue it, I'm unwilling to pay for half of it anymore. I just don't see the point. The MC was ahead of me in figuring it out--at the end of the session he shook both our hands... .and didn't suggest another appointment.

MC got my wife to realize and express clearly to me that she was done with the romantic relationship with me.

I've learned enough not to chase after her anymore. Honestly, I don't even want to chase her where she is right now--I'm worth having a relationship with somebody who WANTS to be in it with me!

I know that I still want a romantic relationship with her... .or something we once had... .or at least something I once thought we had... .or something I believe we could have in a different future... .and that I need time and space to detach enough that I can have build a friendship on the solid foundation of being an ex-lover, instead of the shifting sands of those wistful hopes.

MC won't change her mind. Perhaps individual T would get her to making different choices... .perhaps not... .but that isn't my problem anymore.

I'm going forward, sad, but with very little in the way of regrets on my own behavior. I did the best I could with what I knew at the time, and I've learned a lot.

[eyvindr]

Grey-Cat --

Good for you, friend. I think this sums it up:

I've learned enough not to chase after her anymore. Honestly, I don't even want to chase her where she is right now--I'm worth having a relationship with somebody who WANTS to be in it with me!... .

I'm going forward, sad, but with very little in the way of regrets on my own behavior. I did the best I could with what I knew at the time, and I've learned a lot.

When you can say that, I think it's a true sign that you've chosen to be back in the driving seat -- not that you ever weren't. But you know what I mean. Congratulations doesn't feel like the right sentiment -- more like good work!

[MaroonLiquid]

I've learned enough not to chase after her anymore. Honestly, I don't even want to chase her where she is right now--I'm worth having a relationship with somebody who WANTS to be in it with me!

I know that I still want a romantic relationship with her... .or something we once had... .or at least something I once thought we had... .or something I believe we could have in a different future... .and that I need time and space to detach enough that I can have build a friendship on the solid foundation of being an ex-lover, instead of the shifting sands of those wistful hopes.

This is what I have learned about where I am at also GK.  I do want a r/s with my wife, and as you know, I have come to the decision not chase her and haven't in almost two weeks.  In fact, I have only texted her first once during that time period.  The rest of the time, it has been her who has texted.  She knows where to find me.  I do still wear my wedding ring.  My biggest issue is she hasn't asked to spend time with me outside of her needs (I don't mean physically, but when she needs something) in a while.  That is a tough pill to swallow and has created a wound in me that I am trying to work through and forgive.