"Friends" with exgf not going great - considering NC

[nowwhatz]

Hello everyone.

Well I have been maintaining a "friends" r/s with some benefits with the exBPDgf since our christmas eve breakup. It had been going ok without a lot of pressure. She stopped making demands or requests after I said no many times.  There are still underlying strong feelings for each other which complicate things but have generally been kept in check. 

Over the last week or 2 I have noticed she has been behaving weird like off her meds. For better or worse I had a discussion with her about our "friendship" last night and she started to say she was a "bad person."   My reaction was to ask "what have you done this time?"

Then she went on to tell me she had sex with 2 different random guys she met on fb over the last week and how she was used... .felt guilty.  She was worried that I would be "mad."  I told her I am not and reiterrated that I had expected her to do this after we broke up because that has been the pattern and that I am not surprised she did this now because we were getting  along ok as friends, and not to worry about me being mad because we are nothing. She kept harping on how guilty she felt and how bad she felt for being used.  I guess I was brutally honest and told her to expect more of being used until she decideds to get whatever help she needs.

Well the bottom line is that I am not mad but yesterday was actually the 4th year "anniversary" of our nothingness.  As I awoke I guess her being used reminded me of how much she has used me.  I have been asking myself over the last few days am I better off now than I was 4 years ago. The answer is an obvious and resounding NO.

From what I can gather she is not serious about getting proper treatment and not even the law can keep her in check and regulated.

There is no indication that our r/s as friends, bf/gf or "nothing" will change.

I want to erase any feelings I have towards her from myself but am not sure how to do it. If I go totally NC I know there will be some dark days. I am no bother to her. If I do nothing she will keep calling me periodically because she "needs" me. 

I don't like to write off people I care about. Sadly (or maybe this is a good thing) I have enough of my own personal problems to deal with to keep me plenty busy and not enmeshed in her problems.  If there is one good thing I have done over the last few months I have not allowed myselft to get too enmeshed in her problems... .I have enough of my own believe me!

My thoughts are to go visit her and say a proper goodbye. Ask her not to contact me and then move ahead.

I am not a door closer. My thoughts are if she stayed in treatment and followed doctors orders etc things could work.  I have seen her regulated and she is totally different... .but she can't or won't. I would like to think that one day she will appear after months of treatment as being the kind of person I can have a healthy r/s with... .but that is fairytale land thinking.

I need to take care of myself somehow... .I hate to admit defeat but limited contact has not worked. Too many strong feelings on both sides and as the "normal" one I can't deal with her when she is dysregulated... .as a friend or otherwise.

[Restored2]

Hi nowwhatz.  This is not an easy position to be in.  You do sound like you know what you want and just need to take action in the right direction.  You ultimately need to take care of yourself here.  I would just encourage you to treat her with respect in however you respond.  Everyone's heart deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.  

[nowwhatz]

Hi nowwhatz.  This is not an easy position to be in.  You do sound like you know what you want and just need to take action in the right direction.  You ultimately need to take care of yourself here.  I would just encourage you to treat her with respect in however you respond.  Everyone's heart deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.  

I don't know what the right direction is. Maybe the limited contact is my way of avoiding the pain of total cutoff. I have always thought that LC in my situation was the right thing to do but now not so sure. There are so many things wrong here I don't know where to begin. 

You mentioned dignity and respect. I think I do that very well but sometimes want to let her have it. Talk about confusing. Maybe the fact that I am not really angry about her sleeping with other guys so irresponsibly is a good thing and that my feelings for her are going away.

[Invictus01]

I think the whole friends BS is a standard for PD people. It's like they collect trophies or something. And maybe keep you around just in case if they are bored.

[Restored2]

Hi nowwhatz.  This is not an easy position to be in.  You do sound like you know what you want and just need to take action in the right direction.  You ultimately need to take care of yourself here.  I would just encourage you to treat her with respect in however you respond.  Everyone's heart deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.  

I don't know what the right direction is. Maybe the limited contact is my way of avoiding the pain of total cutoff. I have always thought that LC in my situation was the right thing to do but now not so sure. There are so many things wrong here I don't know where to begin. 

You mentioned dignity and respect. I think I do that very well but sometimes want to let her have it. Talk about confusing. Maybe the fact that I am not really angry about her sleeping with other guys so irresponsibly is a good thing and that my feelings for her are going away.

nowwhatz: It is totally understandable that you "want to let her have it", considering all that she has done.  Sounds like your feelings for her have subsided to indifference where you don't really care about her sleeping around with other guys.  I encourage you to pay heed to these feelings of yours.  This is not a normal or healthy relationship.

[nowwhatz]

I think the whole friends BS is a standard for PD people. It's like they collect trophies or something. And maybe keep you around just in case if they are bored.

Maybe that is what we are both doing.

[nowwhatz]

Hi nowwhatz.  This is not an easy position to be in.  You do sound like you know what you want and just need to take action in the right direction.  You ultimately need to take care of yourself here.  I would just encourage you to treat her with respect in however you respond.  Everyone's heart deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.  

I don't know what the right direction is. Maybe the limited contact is my way of avoiding the pain of total cutoff. I have always thought that LC in my situation was the right thing to do but now not so sure. There are so many things wrong here I don't know where to begin.  

You mentioned dignity and respect. I think I do that very well but sometimes want to let her have it. Talk about confusing. Maybe the fact that I am not really angry about her sleeping with other guys so irresponsibly is a good thing and that my feelings for her are going away.

nowwhatz: It is totally understandable that you "want to let her have it", considering all that she has done.  Sounds like your feelings for her have subsided to indifference where you don't really care about her sleeping around with other guys.  I encourage you to pay heed to these feelings of yours.  This is not a normal or healthy relationship.

Well... .we had an "agreement" where we would tell each other if we were going to sleep around with other people.  She was behaving weird and I guess I was able to pry the reasons out of her. Then her sincere reaction of such shame and guilt kind of threw me for a loop... .plus that she was down because one of the guys told her to have a good life... .so she felt "used."

We are not in a r/s. Why did she feel ashamed?  I can say this if she ever comes on to me for sex ever again (the chances of her doing this are 100%) I am going to ask her to show me a medical report that she is free of any stds.  2 random guys in 1 week for someone like her... .geez.  I don't like to be judgmental with all of my shortcomings... .in the past I might have said something like "you are better than that" but, frankly, this is what she is as a person with BPD who doesn't take care of it.

Incredibly she told me she confided all to her 21 year old son's gf (who pays the rent and co-signed on a car loan for her... .poor her).  

Really the only thing she had done that has upset me over the last few weeks was how she dissed one of my ex-replacements, calling him a loser because he is not jobless, depressed and living with his mother. I thought this was a really mean thing to say but I wonder if that is her true character.

I am torn between ignore/cut ties and forget or be a true "friend" and dump a bucket of ice water on her head by telling her what the consequences are and will be then seeing where the chips fall.

[Restored2]

nowwhatz: Shame can be at the core of a BPD person, especially when they have been previously abused.  This is where the skeletons in the closet so to speak get stirred up.  Her acting out sexually is very likely as a result of her being sexually abused. 

Only you can decide for yourself what direction you would like to steer the ship.  Just be aware of the dangerous icebergs along the course... .

[raisins3142]

Everyone is different, but I can't imagine having this arrangement with my uBPDexgf.  It would drive me insane, especially with the other men, etc.

Others mentioned the STD risk.  She can pass something onto you without even testing positive for it first given incubation periods and testing windows etc.

Sex is not worth all of this trouble, to me at least.

[nowwhatz]

Everyone is different, but I can't imagine having this arrangement with my uBPDexgf.  It would drive me insane, especially with the other men, etc.

Others mentioned the STD risk.  She can pass something onto you without even testing positive for it first given incubation periods and testing windows etc.

Sex is not worth all of this trouble, to me at least.

Well this arrangement is over. This is the first time she acted out this way during this foray. I wouldn't touch her again even with a 10 foot pole triple covered with hefty bags. I had to unfriend her on FB because she "liked" some obscene posts by I guess one of the guys she had sex with last week who she has now unfriended. It is just embarrassing and degrading. If she asks me why I will tell her so.

I suppose I am really getting detached with my indifference... .which is progress I guess.

Today she called me after work and told me how she didn't feel good and had a major panic attack at work. I asked her why she had a panic attack and she said because of her life. I said what is wrong with your life?  I asked about her medication and why isn't it working?  She is on clonazepam now which I suspect she has run out of.  I said your meds aren't working if you are having panic attacks... .why isn't the doctor giving you something else?

Anyways... .you get the picture... .a lot of questions I already know the answer to. She blew off her appointment with the psych because it was too early in the morning. She says she has an appointment next week.

I told her how great I was feeling... .positive... .positive... .positive. I have set my phone to reject her calls straight to vm.

This seems to be evolving into more of tough love type of friendship r/s but I still wonder if I will freak out if she cuts off contact or I cut off contact.

On the bright side I am getting closer to feeling more comfortable in meeting other women... .getting closer to what I was before the 4 years of hell.

I hope to one day share the elusive success story so many of us have been looking for on this board... .and contibute something positive to the members here.

[trappedinlove]

Hi nowwhatz,

You seem to be going in the right direction with your retachement. You are not desperately trying to fix her and you're taking care of yourself and building your own life independent of hers. Keep on doing that and things will work out. If friendship is possible between you two it would eventually sustain your detachement and if not, it's ok too. Consider going into strict NC if that's what you need to detach and communicte that to her that you must do this to take care of yourself and you're for any pain or distress she might feel because of that.

[nowwhatz]

Hi nowwhatz,

You seem to be going in the right direction with your retachement. You are not desperately trying to fix her and you're taking care of yourself and building your own life independent of hers. Keep on doing that and things will work out. If friendship is possible between you two it would eventually sustain your detachement and if not, it's ok too. Consider going into strict NC if that's what you need to detach and communicte that to her that you must do this to take care of yourself and you're for any pain or distress she might feel because of that.

Thank you for the input. I had planned on letting her know if I go to NC for the reasons you mentioned. I know she won't take it well and will probably say something hurtful.  It would be nice if I had a magic wand and make everything perfect but there is no fixing this.   She is in a bad spot and no longer in a position to meet a respectable guy... .no matter how good looking she is.

I guess I will just have to take it one day at a time but one thing for certain I am not initiating contact and I will be slow to react to any contact from her for a while.

[nowwhatz]

Well I just got back from a rather disappointing and somewhat humiliating conversation with this exBPDgf.

I laid it on the line so to speak for the last time and expressed how much I cared about her over the years, and still do.  I said if I wished I could fix our r/s and even explained a futile plan, if for no other reason to treat her with dignity and be honest.

We talked about her telling me how she had sex with 2 different guys last week and I admitted it bothered me for a lot of reasons. Worse she then told me it was 3 guys in 4 nights and seemed to go from extreme shame to being proud of what she has done. 

I told her it was just stupid and reckless and asked if she used protection. She first said no and then later said she did when I expressed a little bit of shock.  This was an embarassing and humuliating experience for me because she once again devalued me somewhat blatantly by almost bragging about what she had done.

The end result was that I told her I would never have sex with her again and not to bother me for sex when she is lonely. I said I would need time away from her and she asked if we could stay friends.  I said yes but no sex and I don't want to know any more about her stupid behaviors.  The truth is PD or not I have lost all respect for her and will need to go NC.

She is blocked on my phone and her texts will go to a block log and I have unfriended and blocked her on social media.

It was not my intent to make her feel bad or guilty. She is clearly one confused girl.  It is very sad for me because she has changed so much over the last four years into kind of a horrible person.

I told her don't call me to ever rescue her or ask for money. She might think everything is the same but it is not. I am truly disgusted with her.

I just hope I don't go into a depression or withdrawal with the NC or start a pity party feeling stupid or foolish.  Right now I am just tired, disappointed and disgusted.  I hate to be a predictor of bad things but her situation is going to go from bad to worse very soon.

I was her last "friend" and there are no guys who will take her seriously... .she is heading towards a brick wall.

Sad and dissappointed     disgusted, and embarassed.

[Suzn]

You are probably very correct when you said her situation is going from bad to worse. I'm sorry you are hurting nowwhatz, this is a very tough spot to be in. And we have all been right where you are.

This woman is clearly disordered. She is on meds and is, if I read this right, been involved in an evaluation where it's been determined that she needs help. Correct?

Staying involved with her keeps her from that old saying "hitting rock bottom." As long as she can count on you or any of these other guys, she's showing you, again, that she doesn't see any reason to go for that help.

I think you are wise to go NC at this point. For you and for her. There is nothing in this situation that suggests indifference my friend. You are clearly, admittedly, torn and we all get that. I have felt stupid, embarrassed and had a pity party or two but this group and my T got me through. It will do the same for you, we're here for you.  

[nowwhatz]

You are probably very correct when you said her situation is going from bad to worse. I'm sorry you are hurting nowwhatz, this is a very tough spot to be in. And we have all been right where you are.

This woman is clearly disordered. She is on meds and is, if I read this right, been involved in an evaluation where it's been determined that she needs help. Correct?

Staying involved with her keeps her from that old saying "hitting rock bottom." As long as she can count on you or any of these other guys, she's showing you, again, that she doesn't see any reason to go for that help.

I think you are wise to go NC at this point. For you and for her. There is nothing in this situation that suggests indifference my friend. You are clearly, admittedly, torn and we all get that. I have felt stupid, embarrassed and had a pity party or two but this group and my T got me through. It will do the same for you, we're here for you.  

Suzn thank you for the encouragement. yes she has been diagnosed and is supposed to be on meds. Her big panic attack yesterday and this weird acting out sexually suggests she is out of some meds. She will not get regular treatment even though it has been ordered by the court for her to do so.  She seemingly can talk her way out of anything even avoiding jailtime for felony theft.

She might think there are guys she can count on but I am really the only one she thinks will come to her beck and call.  Nobody wants her except to have sex with because she is very attractive. She aluded to "having nowhere to go" and had the gall to ask if I would open my home to her if there was an emergency just after I told her she could never stay in my house again. There is a rock bottom and it is coming soon. My experience with her is when she says something the first time and then dismisses it or changes the story the first thing is always true.

She uses her son and now his gf as her sounding board and therapist and has no doubt discussed everything with them tonigh.  The son's gf has her name on the lease and is paying for most of the expenses and did not disclose to the apt that there is a convicted felon living there. The son's gf even co-signed on a car payment for her that she cannot afford.  Everythign is bad bad bad and will get worse.

Yes I agree I am doing myself and her no favors by staying involved with her.  I made it very clear not to ever contact me again if she needs "rescued."

I am also facing a "rock bottom" with my finances in ruin due to my 4 year involvement with this woman... .so we both might be getting what we deserve soon.

I'll try to stay active/busy and get to the T as soon as possible.  Hope I can sleep and make it through the next few weeks without any kind of breakdown.  I am optomistic because my attraction towards her has steadily declined and my respect of her is at an all time low.

Wish I could say my self-respect was better but I have sunk almost to her level. She was so insulting and even laughed at me when I expressed concern that she had probably had unprotected sex with these men.  I didn't pull any punches and told her no more sex with me even if I put on 5 condoms after she laughed at me.

I can't hate this person because she is clearly disordered but I am saddened by it all and have to dig myself out of a deep hole now because of my stupid involvement with her.

What a mess.

[Suzn]

It sounds like you will likely have to be the strong one to enforce your boundary on NC. Since she is use to you saving her in the past she will likely test it.

I don't think your involvement was stupid. You clearly have compassion for her and that's a wonderful quality to have.

I know what it feels like to be laughed at at a time of sincerity and it really hurts, I'm sorry that happened.

This break from her will probably be hard because you do care and if you find yourself feeling like it's a breakdown it's because you are feeling. As hard as it is to see, feeling is a good thing. Be kind to you right now.

[Reforming]

Hi Nowwhatz,

I'm sorry for your pain. You've already got some great advice from the other posters. I think most of us here would all agree that walking away and closing the door on these type of relationships can be particularly difficult for the all reasons that are explored so well on this site.

I suppose the question that comes to mind for me is what do you hope to get out of your relationship with her?

There are many different types of sex, but for my sex is most satisfying and healthy when it's accompanied by intimacy and trust. Real intimacy requires vulnerability. Do you feel safe with her?

I think healthy friendships also need reciprocal trust and care. Do you think that she can provide this?

I spent a long time with my ex and I found detaching hard. It's difficult process that takes time and work. I found that any contact set me back and triggered hurt and anger so I did my best to stay no contact. This site really helped me and whenever I struggled I came here to read the posts of others for inspiration. I also kept reminding myself of how my ex treated her friends and her previous ex. while we were together

When I replaced him he also struggled to detach, kept in contact, lent her money, etc after she'd cheated on him and treated him very poorly.

It was one of the many huge     that I stupidly ignored, but I did say to her at the time that if we ever broke up I would never let her treat me like that.

Surprise, surprise she eventually cheated on me. I tried to work through it, but eventually I recognised that it she is not capable of loving me the way that I needed and that by being with her I was damaging myself.

The last thing our couple counsellor said when she saw me privately was that I needed to work on why I had stayed in the relationship so long. That's been my focus for the last couple of years.

For me closing the door has been about recognising or radically accepting my ex for who she is and not for who I want her to be. She is disordered and until she gets the help and does the work she is not able to have a healthy, loving relationship with another person. When she was with me she was not willing to do the work and no matter how much I wanted that to happen it is beyond my control

I had to grieve for our relationship and forgive myself. I found a good T and whenever I felt the urge to break NC I reviewed a list of her behaviour. It's so easy to hang on to words that were said, but our actions define who we are. They reveal the real truth of someone's character.

It sounds weird, but it also helps if you see your ex as four year trapped in an adult's body.

Keep posting and the best of luck

Reforming

[nowwhatz]

Hi Nowwhatz,

I'm sorry for your pain. You've already got some great advice from the other posters. I think most of us here would all agree that walking away and closing the door on these type of relationships can be particularly difficult for the all reasons that are explored so well on this site.

I suppose the question that comes to mind for me is what do you hope to get out of your relationship with her?

There are many different types of sex, but for my sex is most satisfying and healthy when it's accompanied by intimacy and trust. Real intimacy requires vulnerability. Do you feel safe with her?

I think healthy friendships also need reciprocal trust and care. Do you think that she can provide this?

I spent a long time with my ex and I found detaching hard. It's difficult process that takes time and work. I found that any contact set me back and triggered hurt and anger so I did my best to stay no contact. This site really helped me and whenever I struggled I came here to read the posts of others for inspiration. I also kept reminding myself of how my ex treated her friends and her previous ex. while we were together

When I replaced him he also struggled to detach, kept in contact, lent her money, etc after she'd cheated on him and treated him very poorly.

It was one of the many huge     that I stupidly ignored, but I did say to her at the time that if we ever broke up I would never let her treat me like that.

Surprise, surprise she eventually cheated on me. I tried to work through it, but eventually I recognised that it she is not capable of loving me the way that I needed and that by being with her I was damaging myself.

The last thing our couple counsellor said when she saw me privately was that I needed to work on why I had stayed in the relationship so long. That's been my focus for the last couple of years.

For me closing the door has been about recognising or radically accepting my ex for who she is and not for who I want her to be. She is disordered and until she gets the help and does the work she is not able to have a healthy, loving relationship with another person. When she was with me she was not willing to do the work and no matter how much I wanted that to happen it is beyond my control

I had to grieve for our relationship and forgive myself. I found a good T and whenever I felt the urge to break NC I reviewed a list of her behaviour. It's so easy to hang on to words that were said, but our actions define who we are. They reveal the real truth of someone's character.

It sounds weird, but it also helps if you see your ex as four year trapped in an adult's body.

Keep posting and the best of luck

Reforming

Reforming,

Thank you for what you have said.

To answer your questions no I do not feel safe with her in a r/s now and can't see how I will ever feel safe with her in a r/s. She can't remember what she says or does and always uses her PD as an excuse for the bad behavior.

To make matters worse I foolishly opened my heart to her one more time last night after doing a pretty good job of slowing detaching, little by little, over several months. I took a giant step backwards and got the predictable abuse.

Our "friendship" was going surprisingly ok until a couple of weeks ago. I can trust her as far as that goes because however disregulated she is honest about what she wants and thinks, even if what she is honest about is an illusion or changes in a matter of minutes.  I have been able to accept that she is crazy but harmless to me.  

Can their be reciprocity in a "friendship" with her? Maybe. I removed any future sex from the table last night which was an ego buster for her.  The sex has always been the best and she needs to feel sexy and wanted. Now I don't want her and she knows why... .because she went over the top and acted out so stupidly.

If I have a flat tire or something can I rely on her to do what friends do for each other in a situation like that? Maybe.  I think there can only be "friendship" if I can ratchet down my feelings for her to where I was a few weeks ago... .somewhat indifferent.

My tendency and pattern in this situation in the past was to react negatively.  I want to avoid that. I want to take the high road.

Foolishly or not, I left the door open last night as I always do.  I could shut that door for good right now if I wanted to with a simple phone call or message telling her what she is and to never contact me again. If I do that I will just make myself feel worse. The sexual attraction I always had for her is now kaput. She feels ashamed and regretful.

You mentioned how your ex treated their ex's. That is something I can relate to. As I may have mentioned in a post this latest round of bad behavior seemed to start a couple of weeks ago when she told me how she contacted one of my ex temporary replacements and how she called him a "big loser."  This showed me that she tried to get something from him and found out he was going through a hard time, could do nothing for her, and therefor he is a "big loser."  That really disgusted me and shows her true character.

I don't want to remind myself about all the bad things she has done to me because it makes me angry and feel stupid.  I want to be able to live life, to get my life in order, to take care of my business, to dig myself out of my hole, to meet new friends, do new things, go new places.  I wasn't to far away from detaching until my relapse.  I think I can get back on that path but it will take a lot of work.

Maybe I am fooling myself and maybe I am a mean person myself but I want to detach and be able to withstand her contact and remind her what she has lost.  Nobody has been more direct and honest wih her than me.

When the call comes from her to take her back I want to be able to say no.

During out "friendship" of the last couple of months I have been able to tell her "no" when she wanted money and it felt good.  It could be tonight it could be next week or whenever but she will call or text and ask me to take her out or give her money and I want the opportunity to keep saying "no."

To answer your question about what I can gain from this r/s or "friendship"... .telling her "no" and proving to myself that I can withstand her overtures is the only reason I haven't gone NC or closed the door permanently.   It sounds stupid but maybe I need her so I can just say "no."

But yeah... .right  now after experiencing some of her worst... .it just hurts. But I asked for it and let it happen.

[myself]

It sounds stupid but maybe I need her so I can just say "no."

Is she more like a drug to you than a friend?

How many times saying "no" will it take?

You don't like her using you, but are you also using her?

I don't want to remind myself about all the bad things she has done to me because it makes me angry and feel stupid.  

Won't you be reminded every time you're having to say "no" to her?

Will hanging on really help you move on more than letting go will?

Maybe I am fooling myself and maybe I am a mean person myself but I want to detach and be able to withstand her contact and remind her what she has lost.  Nobody has been more direct and honest with her than me.

When you're ready to detach, it will happen. Until then, don't put yourself down for not being there yet. Keep your inner compass pointed toward the facts. Remembering that the mirror that helps you see yourself isn't the one that would be best for her to see herself. 'Withstanding her contact' sounds more like you're still in the line of fire than being 'friends'. Are you direct and honest with her about your reasons for not cutting your connection?

[downwhim]

No one on this board can tell you when to truly let go. You may go back and forth because as you said, your "not one to close doors". You may unblock her on some of your social media or phone or email when you get lonely. It is your call how long you want to help her. What I ask is, what are you getting out of this relationship? Unprotected sex with the possibility of STD? A friendship without any trust?

Many of us on here are co dependent. We want to help others and we stay too long in relationships. I for one was great at it. If you want to double your years together - mine was 8 years - it is up to you. I figure I wasted so much time in my life with someone who was lying about the way he felt, was mentally ill and lead me on for sex and comfort ability. I was riding the wave with hopes it would all turn out fabulous. Marriage, kids combined, double incomes, peace, harmony... .ha ha.

My ex fiancé left quickly via email. N/C was truly my only option. Some things in life are hard. N/C is REALLY hard when you are addicted to a r/s.

It is all up to you my friend  

[Reforming]

I'm added my thoughts in capitals below, to separate them from your answers

Thank you for what you have said.

To answer your questions no I do not feel safe with her in a r/s now and can't see how I will ever feel safe with her in a r/s. She can't remember what she says or does and always uses her PD as an excuse for the bad behavior.

JUST LIKE ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS I THINK HEALTHY FRIENDSHIPS ALSO REQUIRE SECURITY AND SAFETY

To make matters worse I foolishly opened my heart to her one more time last night after doing a pretty good job of slowing detaching, little by little, over several months. I took a giant step backwards and got the predictable abuse.

Our "friendship" was going surprisingly ok until a couple of weeks ago. I can trust her as far as that goes because however disregulated she is honest about what she wants and thinks, even if what she is honest about is an illusion or changes in a matter of minutes.  I have been able to accept that she is crazy but harmless to me.  

I THINK IT'S DANGEROUS TO ASSUME THAT SHE IS HARMLESS. AS LONG AS YOU'RE INVOLVED, AND IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE, SHE CAN DO YOU HARM.

Can their be reciprocity in a "friendship" with her? Maybe. I removed any future sex from the table last night which was an ego buster for her.  The sex has always been the best and she needs to feel sexy and wanted. Now I don't want her and she knows why... .because she went over the top and acted out so stupidly.

If I have a flat tire or something can I rely on her to do what friends do for each other in a situation like that? Maybe.  I think there can only be "friendship" if I can ratchet down my feelings for her to where I was a few weeks ago... .somewhat indifferent.

IF YOU CAN'T DEPEND ON HER TO HELP YOU FIX A TYRE SHE DOESN'T SOUND LIKE MUCH OF A FRIEND

My tendency and pattern in this situation in the past was to react negatively.  I want to avoid that. I want to take the high road.

STEPPING AWAY AND CLOSING THE DOOR CAN BE A POSITIVE THING IF YOU'RE DOING IT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS AND IF YOU DO IT RESPECTFULLY WITHOUT ANGER OR HURT

Foolishly or not, I left the door open last night as I always do.  I could shut that door for good right now if I wanted to with a simple phone call or message telling her what she is and to never contact me again. If I do that I will just make myself feel worse. The sexual attraction I always had for her is now kaput. She feels ashamed and regretful.

I':) SUGGEST YOU WILL END UP FACING THAT HURT SOONER OR LATER. THE SOONER YOU DO IT - THE SOONER YOU CAN START HEALING AND FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN GIVE YOU WHAT YOU REALLY NEED.

You mentioned how your ex treated their ex's. That is something I can relate to. As I may have mentioned in a post this latest round of bad behavior seemed to start a couple of weeks ago when she told me how she contacted one of my ex temporary replacements and how she called him a "big loser."  This showed me that she tried to get something from him and found out he was going through a hard time, could do nothing for her, and therefor he is a "big loser."  That really disgusted me and shows her true character.

I AGREE. SHE'S TELLING YOU WHO SHE REALLY IS...    BELIEVE HER...

I don't want to remind myself about all the bad things she has done to me because it makes me angry and feel stupid.  I want to be able to live life, to get my life in order, to take care of my business, to dig myself out of my hole, to meet new friends, do new things, go new places.  I wasn't to far away from detaching until my relapse.  I think I can get back on that path but it will take a lot of work.

SHE DID THESE THINGS TO YOU, AGAIN SHE'S SHOWING YOU WHO SHE IS. IGNORING THEM WON'T WON'T MAKE THEM NOT TRUE OR MAKE HER CHANGE.

YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER BEHAVIOUR, BUT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN. IT WILL TAKE WORK, BUT STAYING IN TOUCH WILL JUST MAKE THAT WORK HARDER.

Maybe I am fooling myself and maybe I am a mean person myself but I want to detach and be able to withstand her contact and remind her what she has lost.  Nobody has been more direct and honest wih her than me.

WHEN YOU FULLY DETACH YOU WON'T CARE ABOUT HOW SHE FEELS ABOUT LOSING YOU, AND BPD DON'T FEEL LOSS OR ATTACHEMENT IN THE SAME WAY AS YOU OR I. THE ODDS ARE THAT SHE WILL JUST MOVE ON WITHOUT MUCH REGRET

When the call comes from her to take her back I want to be able to say no.

WHY? WHAT WILL THIS PROVE? THAT YOU HAVE THE UPPER HAND? THAT YOU ARE IN CONTROL? YOU CANNOT CONTROL ANYONE ELSE. SHE IS DISORDERED AND HURTING HER BACK WILL NOT MAKE YOU BETTER OR HELP YOU HEAL

During out "friendship" of the last couple of months I have been able to tell her "no" when she wanted money and it felt good.  It could be tonight it could be next week or whenever but she will call or text and ask me to take her out or give her money and I want the opportunity to keep saying "no."

SEE ABOVE

To answer your question about what I can gain from this r/s or "friendship"... .telling her "no" and proving to myself that I can withstand her overtures is the only reason I haven't gone NC or closed the door permanently.   It sounds stupid but maybe I need her so I can just say "no."

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE OTHER REASONS WHY YOU ARE UNWILLING TO DETACH? DO YOU HOPE SHE WILL CHANGE, REALISE WHAT YOU ARE WORTH AND LOVE YOU BACK?

SAY NO TO HER NOW, WORK THROUGH THE DETACHMENT AND FIND A HEALTHIER PERSON WHO CAN MEET YOUR NEEDS

But yeah... .right  now after experiencing some of her worst... .it just hurts. But I asked for it and let it happen.

The most important questions I faced after my relationship ended were

Why I was drawn to my ex despite all the    

Why did I stay in the relationship when her behaviour revealed who she was?

Good luck

Reforming

[nowwhatz]

To everyone,

You guys are so kind and smart and compassionate to take the time to respond to me in the way you are doing.

There are so many great questions and suggestions from you all and I will try to digest and respond.

I am not one to go silent so if I were to cut the ties I would communicate it to her. If will be difficult for me to do so without saying things that would hurt her no matter how respectful. There are some other considerations as I am friends with her nephew and I would need to ask her not to sabotage that.

Well I actually have some friends coming over to jam with me at my house ... .we play some heavy rock/metal/punk/jazzy stuff... .hopefully that will help take my mind off this problem.

I will respond to what you have said later.  Thank you so much. God bless you.  You people are angels sent from heaven!

[Restored2]

Hi nowwhatz.  You're welcome.  Glad to be of any help.  This discussion board is full of kind, smart and compassionate people who give of themselves by taking the time to respond to people in need.   I know, because I have been on the receiving end of much help.

Do what you need to do that is best for you and everyone else involved.

God bless you too!

[nowwhatz]

cut the ties tonight in semi dramatic fashion.  thank you everyone. will share details tomorrow.

[nowwhatz]

Hi Everyone,

well I am sick to my stomach and afraid of the pain that lies ahead but there is no other way. This had to stop.

Incredibly I got a cal early last evening from the exBPDgf asking me to take her out to the casino. I would have thought after the tense discussion the night before she would at lease leave me alone for a while.

I was emotionally exhausted, tired... .almost too tired to be angry but irritated.  I decided to go along and take her out, use the time as a sort of object lesson that I and hopefully she would remember and cut ties. It costs me $20, some gas and some of my time.

So I pick her up at her apartment and she is dressed nice, hair perfect perfume etc. I open the door for her to my truck... .no "thank you" nothing.  On the drive down I am polite ask how she is, how was her day etc.  I don't get so much as a "how are you? como estas?" nothing.

We get to the casino and I am annoyed but have a plan. She asked me to loan her $ to play. I say no. I sit down and put a little bit of $ into a slot machine and win. She is by my side sort of cheerleading and seemingly trying to nuzzle up to me... .I move away, cash out my winnings and then give her $20 and tell her it is a gift, not a loan because she will never pay it back, think of it as an early birthday present or late valentines day present.

She goes to play a game and I spend the rest of the time away from her listening to music and texting my friends.  So she is getting a lot of miliage out of the $20 but eventually loses it all. She wants to stay longer and I say no have to go.  I also remind her I will not be going to any casinos for a long time because I simply can't afford it and wish her luck if she goes on her own in the future.

On the way to my vehicle she tells me her son's gf (the young girl who signed their apt lease and co-signed on a car loan for the exgf... .being taken advantage of) is in the emergency room and might need some type of surgery.  So i am like... .what? You wanted to go to the casino when she is at the hospital?  Shouldn't you be at the hospital with her?   She says oh no her son is there etc.  I say I think you should go to the hospital and be with her. Silence.

In the parking lot there is a green taxi right next to my vehicle. As I open the door for her to get into my vehicle (again no "thank you" I am reminded that I am her taxi service (unpaid). I take a look at the green taxi and tell myself to remember this.  There is some humor in the irony and concicence here but i am too emotionally drained to smile.

On the drive back she is silent. I ask why so quiet a couple of time and finally get an answer "I feel depressed."  She sounds terrible and for a moment I question whether or not I should cut ties tonight with her in this "depressed" state (my stupid compassion kicking in). I say maybe you should go to the psychiatrist tomorrow because you are off.  She says no "I am depressed because of things I have done... .some other things."   I don't ask and don't want to know and just repeat the same... .maybe you should go to the doctor tomorrow and get checked out, tell her she has not been herself for a while now (probably off meds).  She says ok she will call.

Then she says she feels ok.  I tell her oh thats nice and you didn't even say as much as a how are you to me tonight or any thank you but I feel absolutely terrible.  Silence.

I tell her I feel terrible becuase I am very disappointed in the state of our "friendship"  which seemed to be going as well as could be expected up until 3 weeks ago and now had turned to you know what. Silence.

I tell her I don't know why this has happened but know the exact moment when it started and where. We are pulling into her apt parking area.  I tell her it started here in the parking lot about 3 weeks ago when you told me about your ex-bf (my temporary replacement) Travis and how he is a "big loser" because he is going through a hard time now living with his mother etc. I tell her I felt sick in my stomach about that because it was such a mean thing to say and now that he is of no use to you he is a "big loser." Silence.

I walk her to her apt and ask her for a minute of her time.  She is in a zombie like state and let's me in. 

I tell her I have to make a very difficult decision that will cause me a lot of pain and that is I have to stop seeing her and talking with her. She is looking at me very depressed and zombie-like. Probably wasting my time I try to tell her that friendhip is when people care about each other, trust each other and can meet each others needs. I tell her I don't feel safe with her and am only getting damaged and I need to heal.

I tell her that I have a lot of compassion and love for her but I get nothing our of our friendship or r/s. Nothing... .worse than nothing it is like my life and soul is being sucked out of me.

She has nothing to say and looks out of it. I say goodbye take care and leave.

Not leaving well enough alone and not sure I got through to her I sent her a text from my home.  She is a fan of the old tv detective show Columbo... .so my text starts out with "just one last thing... .  and I go on to tell her how she made me feel like her taxi service tonight and and her to try to imagine how that feels.  I reminded her that I told her to get check out twice on the drive home and her actions are off and she is so different than the person I met and fell in love with.   Also reminded her that I am cutting ties to stop the damages, which if I let continue I would eventually die. I need to heal myself and told her if she ever saw me again try being nicer to me.  Anyways... .not 100% successful and not 100% respectful but I wanted to end it with words that emphasized i am doing this for me.

That is pretty much it. I guess I put myself a night of mild torture.  Maybe the text seems unnecessary but the written word seems to get through to her a little better and I didn't want to leave anything unsaid.

I think I won't hear from her for a long time and hope I can stay NC.  If I feel the urge to contact her I will think of the green taxi.

Now I get to face the pain.

My life is a wreck.   This r/s may possibly have been the biggest mistake of my entire life... .and i have been around a while.

Aside from you guys and a T I can barely get to see nobody knows what I have put myself through over the last 4 years... .not even the exgf because she just can't feel like a "normal" person.  None of my friends or family know because it is so embarrassing for me.  They could not understand.

Well I will try to pick up my sorry self... .get to work... .face the fire and start to move through it... .hope to survive it.

[nowwhatz]

I'm added my thoughts in capitals below, to separate them from your answers

Thank you for what you have said.

To answer your questions no I do not feel safe with her in a r/s now and can't see how I will ever feel safe with her in a r/s. She can't remember what she says or does and always uses her PD as an excuse for the bad behavior.

JUST LIKE ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS I THINK HEALTHY FRIENDSHIPS ALSO REQUIRE SECURITY AND SAFETY

To make matters worse I foolishly opened my heart to her one more time last night after doing a pretty good job of slowing detaching, little by little, over several months. I took a giant step backwards and got the predictable abuse.

Our "friendship" was going surprisingly ok until a couple of weeks ago. I can trust her as far as that goes because however disregulated she is honest about what she wants and thinks, even if what she is honest about is an illusion or changes in a matter of minutes.  I have been able to accept that she is crazy but harmless to me.  

I THINK IT'S DANGEROUS TO ASSUME THAT SHE IS HARMLESS. AS LONG AS YOU'RE INVOLVED, AND IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE, SHE CAN DO YOU HARM.

Can their be reciprocity in a "friendship" with her? Maybe. I removed any future sex from the table last night which was an ego buster for her.  The sex has always been the best and she needs to feel sexy and wanted. Now I don't want her and she knows why... .because she went over the top and acted out so stupidly.

If I have a flat tire or something can I rely on her to do what friends do for each other in a situation like that? Maybe.  I think there can only be "friendship" if I can ratchet down my feelings for her to where I was a few weeks ago... .somewhat indifferent.

IF YOU CAN'T DEPEND ON HER TO HELP YOU FIX A TYRE SHE DOESN'T SOUND LIKE MUCH OF A FRIEND

My tendency and pattern in this situation in the past was to react negatively.  I want to avoid that. I want to take the high road.

STEPPING AWAY AND CLOSING THE DOOR CAN BE A POSITIVE THING IF YOU'RE DOING IT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS AND IF YOU DO IT RESPECTFULLY WITHOUT ANGER OR HURT

Foolishly or not, I left the door open last night as I always do.  I could shut that door for good right now if I wanted to with a simple phone call or message telling her what she is and to never contact me again. If I do that I will just make myself feel worse. The sexual attraction I always had for her is now kaput. She feels ashamed and regretful.

I':) SUGGEST YOU WILL END UP FACING THAT HURT SOONER OR LATER. THE SOONER YOU DO IT - THE SOONER YOU CAN START HEALING AND FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN GIVE YOU WHAT YOU REALLY NEED.

You mentioned how your ex treated their ex's. That is something I can relate to. As I may have mentioned in a post this latest round of bad behavior seemed to start a couple of weeks ago when she told me how she contacted one of my ex temporary replacements and how she called him a "big loser."  This showed me that she tried to get something from him and found out he was going through a hard time, could do nothing for her, and therefor he is a "big loser."  That really disgusted me and shows her true character.

I AGREE. SHE'S TELLING YOU WHO SHE REALLY IS...    BELIEVE HER...

I don't want to remind myself about all the bad things she has done to me because it makes me angry and feel stupid.  I want to be able to live life, to get my life in order, to take care of my business, to dig myself out of my hole, to meet new friends, do new things, go new places.  I wasn't to far away from detaching until my relapse.  I think I can get back on that path but it will take a lot of work.

SHE DID THESE THINGS TO YOU, AGAIN SHE'S SHOWING YOU WHO SHE IS. IGNORING THEM WON'T WON'T MAKE THEM NOT TRUE OR MAKE HER CHANGE.

YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER BEHAVIOUR, BUT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN. IT WILL TAKE WORK, BUT STAYING IN TOUCH WILL JUST MAKE THAT WORK HARDER.

Maybe I am fooling myself and maybe I am a mean person myself but I want to detach and be able to withstand her contact and remind her what she has lost.  Nobody has been more direct and honest wih her than me.

WHEN YOU FULLY DETACH YOU WON'T CARE ABOUT HOW SHE FEELS ABOUT LOSING YOU, AND BPD DON'T FEEL LOSS OR ATTACHEMENT IN THE SAME WAY AS YOU OR I. THE ODDS ARE THAT SHE WILL JUST MOVE ON WITHOUT MUCH REGRET

When the call comes from her to take her back I want to be able to say no.

WHY? WHAT WILL THIS PROVE? THAT YOU HAVE THE UPPER HAND? THAT YOU ARE IN CONTROL? YOU CANNOT CONTROL ANYONE ELSE. SHE IS DISORDERED AND HURTING HER BACK WILL NOT MAKE YOU BETTER OR HELP YOU HEAL

During out "friendship" of the last couple of months I have been able to tell her "no" when she wanted money and it felt good.  It could be tonight it could be next week or whenever but she will call or text and ask me to take her out or give her money and I want the opportunity to keep saying "no."

SEE ABOVE

To answer your question about what I can gain from this r/s or "friendship"... .telling her "no" and proving to myself that I can withstand her overtures is the only reason I haven't gone NC or closed the door permanently.   It sounds stupid but maybe I need her so I can just say "no."

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE OTHER REASONS WHY YOU ARE UNWILLING TO DETACH? DO YOU HOPE SHE WILL CHANGE, REALISE WHAT YOU ARE WORTH AND LOVE YOU BACK?

SAY NO TO HER NOW, WORK THROUGH THE DETACHMENT AND FIND A HEALTHIER PERSON WHO CAN MEET YOUR NEEDS

But yeah... .right  now after experiencing some of her worst... .it just hurts. But I asked for it and let it happen.

The most important questions I faced after my relationship ended were

Why I was drawn to my ex despite all the    

Why did I stay in the relationship when her behaviour revealed who she was?

Good luck

Reforming

Reforming,

Thank you so much for your input. What you said really helped me make the difficult decision... .especially:

I THINK IT'S DANGEROUS TO ASSUME THAT SHE IS HARMLESS. AS LONG AS YOU'RE INVOLVED, AND IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE, SHE CAN DO YOU HARM.

Thank you.

[nowwhatz]

It sounds stupid but maybe I need her so I can just say "no."

Is she more like a drug to you than a friend?

How many times saying "no" will it take?

You don't like her using you, but are you also using her?

I don't want to remind myself about all the bad things she has done to me because it makes me angry and feel stupid.  

Won't you be reminded every time you're having to say "no" to her?

Will hanging on really help you move on more than letting go will?

Maybe I am fooling myself and maybe I am a mean person myself but I want to detach and be able to withstand her contact and remind her what she has lost.  Nobody has been more direct and honest with her than me.

When you're ready to detach, it will happen. Until then, don't put yourself down for not being there yet. Keep your inner compass pointed toward the facts. Remembering that the mirror that helps you see yourself isn't the one that would be best for her to see herself. 'Withstanding her contact' sounds more like you're still in the line of fire than being 'friends'. Are you direct and honest with her about your reasons for not cutting your connection?

Myself,

You make some great points.  I would be using her to practice saying "no"    Keeping it going was doing nobody any good.  I guess I have been under some delusion that I could play with fire and stay in control.

[nowwhatz]

No one on this board can tell you when to truly let go. You may go back and forth because as you said, your "not one to close doors". You may unblock her on some of your social media or phone or email when you get lonely. It is your call how long you want to help her. What I ask is, what are you getting out of this relationship? Unprotected sex with the possibility of STD? A friendship without any trust?

Many of us on here are co dependent. We want to help others and we stay too long in relationships. I for one was great at it. If you want to double your years together - mine was 8 years - it is up to you. I figure I wasted so much time in my life with someone who was lying about the way he felt, was mentally ill and lead me on for sex and comfort ability. I was riding the wave with hopes it would all turn out fabulous. Marriage, kids combined, double incomes, peace, harmony... .ha ha.

My ex fiancé left quickly via email. N/C was truly my only option. Some things in life are hard. N/C is REALLY hard when you are addicted to a r/s.

It is all up to you my friend  

I don't think I could double the years together with her. I would be dead. 

Riding the waves of hope that it would all turn out fabulous.  Wow. That has been me 100%    The intermittent fabulous periods kept the hope alive in me. 

The bottom line is whenever it was fabulous she was not dysregulated and on her meds... .going to treatment. This never lasted more than 3 weeks at a time.    She just would not, could not, will never take care of herself and I just would not give up and let her go.

[nowwhatz]

No one on this board can tell you when to truly let go. You may go back and forth because as you said, your "not one to close doors". You may unblock her on some of your social media or phone or email when you get lonely. It is your call how long you want to help her. What I ask is, what are you getting out of this relationship? Unprotected sex with the possibility of STD? A friendship without any trust?

Many of us on here are co dependent. We want to help others and we stay too long in relationships. I for one was great at it. If you want to double your years together - mine was 8 years - it is up to you. I figure I wasted so much time in my life with someone who was lying about the way he felt, was mentally ill and lead me on for sex and comfort ability. I was riding the wave with hopes it would all turn out fabulous. Marriage, kids combined, double incomes, peace, harmony... .ha ha.

My ex fiancé left quickly via email. N/C was truly my only option. Some things in life are hard. N/C is REALLY hard when you are addicted to a r/s.

It is all up to you my friend  

I got nothing... .a net loss if every sense of the word.

[nowwhatz]

Hi nowwhatz.  You're welcome.  Glad to be of any help.  This discussion board is full of kind, smart and compassionate people who give of themselves by taking the time to respond to people in need.   I know, because I have been on the receiving end of much help.

Do what you need to do that is best for you and everyone else involved.

God bless you too!

I hope I have now done that. This week is going to be rough. Am I over-dramatizing all of this ?   

should I just get drunk like a lot of guys do after breaking off "normal" relationships?

I am not exactly sure what to do next.